There isn’t much you can do to help those who think their penis is smaller. They will always be insecure. They won’t come out and say it but you can make out they have a ‘problem’ by their behaviour in other issues.
My friends at ChristianAggression.org seems to have the same problem. They spend their after work hours and weekends telling the world how they Christians are taking over India. Through Aggression. Oh! and I almost forgot, our friends do this from their homes in the United States of America.
Think of the irony, these losers left India for the US, gave up their Indian nationality and now is involved in a crusade to save India from the Christians. Just so that they don’t upset their host country, they have the following disclaimer on their website,
“Note: The views expressed on this site are those of the respective authors and not necessarily those of this website. This website holds the Christian faith in high regard and is in no way anti-Christian. Rather this website is opposed to the aggression practiced under in the name of Christianity.“
Right. You name your site christianaggression.org and you claim that you are “in no way anti-christian”.
What exactly are you losers worried about? That 2.3 per cent of Indian’s Christian community will take over the Red Fort in Delhi? Is that why you left India and took up citizenship of the US?
So to my American friend with a small problem, sitting somewhere in Scottsdale, Arizona, all I want to say is: India is my country, if we have a problem, we will solve it. Please don’t waste your bandwidth and web-design skills on creating hate. Take down your website by the end of this month. If you don’t, I will be reporting this matter to the Government of India and the US authorities. I will not let losers like you create divisions in my country.
February 10, 2007 at 8:24 pm
I always wonder what these people (who hate) did before the internet arrived. How did they get vent their hate? Nowadays the internet has become the favorite way of doing it. Anyone can start a blog…and start the bashing. I think you should complain to the host of the site too.
February 10, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Well, i think everyone has a right to freedom of expression. One man’s hate speech is another man’s truth.
February 11, 2007 at 12:44 am
Nita, I intend to take on these guys through the court. I have asked my lawyer to file a case.
@Apollo, everyone has a freedom of expression. Not hate talk. In the US these guys might get away with it but I can assure you that the material on the site is enough for me get a non bailable warrant against them.
February 11, 2007 at 8:23 am
chacko,
I don’t agree. there is a lot of stuff in the bible that could be represented as hate speech against unbelievers. so do we call for the ban on the bible too?
I believe there is no such thing as good and bad free speech. if we go down this line then within no time we will find the scope for freedom of expression reducing till we end up with a 1984 style regime obsessed with every little thing u say or do.
Ofcourse there are sensible limits to free speech. for example one cannot shout “Fire” in a crowded place and one cannot directly incite someone to violence against any individual or group. Short of that we have no choice but to tolerate all forms of opinion.
June 12, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Apollo Got points too, but anyway did you manage to do something chacko? because this is year 2009.. Long long time after this post, but still the website is running fine ??? Am i missing something here?
February 11, 2007 at 9:26 am
I wonder if you are blind to irony in your post? You start your sentence with a nice quote and then go on criticizing someone else’s belief. What is that with Indians in India that they consider Indians outside India less Indian? Or that Indians in India have exclusive right to think about India, and noone else can do so? Something about short penis, is it?
February 11, 2007 at 10:45 am
I think it is only a website spreading anti-Christian propaganda using various sources. There are far more objectionable websites in India itself abusing different communities. So why single out this?
Rather than telling them that India is your country and they have no business here, tell them with reason why they are wrong. By writing this ‘they hate christians, so I dont like them’ post you have only given them a few more hits.
February 11, 2007 at 11:16 am
Woke, I wouldn’t have cared if the site was anti-Christian, there is a lot of that around. But if you put together a site that is aiming to create problems between communities in my country, then I do have a problem with it.
Ashish,
I’m an Indian who is based outside India.
February 11, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Chacko,
There are too much of these kind of websites. Against Christians, Muslims, Communists and so on… But I don’t think its a good idea to ban them unless they’re calling their readers for a violent action on any of these groups. And the best way to resist them is to prove their findings wrong (if that’s the case) and if they are preaching false propaganda, reveal them in public through a blog post. That’s the best thing.
But I agree with you when you said you don’t understand how these guys think 2.3% of Christians are going to take over India on the religious basis. It is their insecurity feeling. If a religion could survive for more than 1000s of years, it will still survive if it has anything good in it. I don’t understand their insecurity ill feeling.
February 11, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Pretty much agree to what Joe said.
February 13, 2007 at 8:03 pm
The site essentially exposes the covert deception of the the missionaries and evangelists to convert Hindus. The website only compiles and posts the articles. That is all.
If you have a problem you should go to the original articles …. which essentially are Christian churches which openly speak of their hatred for Hinduism and plans to convert them.
February 13, 2007 at 9:27 pm
Dear Chacko,
While you are free to take any action you deem fit, if you are able to go to a court and if Hindu groups are able to gather the info to present to the court, you then will know what is happening.
Kindly understand that a web is not going to create hate in my or any other person’s mind hate since every one of us – that include you and me – think that we are mature. At least that is what we think. So no one accept such news blindly. When we read something, we relate it and then think over that. We discuss and check and cross check. Only then we go to the next stage of thinking that there could be some truth in that. So no news is bad news and no news is good news. An info is only info until one studies that and work on that. And i believe even u are not one to blindly accept what ever you read blindly.
However I can point out very idiotic stories presented by several Christian conversion organisations that are floating in the web. But i am not interested in that since i am one to think that what we can do is only to talk to people and discuss with people and any ignorant one who thinks that by conversion he can go to heaven, better let him since Like Christ said ” God, he does not know what he is doing, pardon him for his ignorance ”
But that does not leave me to keep quite and so we do discuss and we see how people could be told of what is happening. Also we are not ones – like VHP etc who are in for fights.
In my humble opinion, it will be nice for you to please try a little bit understand what is happening by reading the posts of people who do not belong to christianity and who feel bad about the way govt is acting as far as Hinduism is concerned.
Are you aware that in India, the temples are controlled by govt while christianity and muslims have freedom to control their relgious institutions?
Have you noticed how christianity work on development of their community while we Hindus feel orphaned as the govt has no interest in development of hindu religious institutions ? The people who work in temples get peanuts and they have no chance of growth – growth by way of learning further the scriptures, go for research on the subjects they have learned etc? what can the community do in such a situation?
I am one to think that God if there is one introduced DIVERSITY for the benefit of the creation – or the order. But now human beings think that they are more intelligent that GOD – if there is one and they want to unify. they want to convert people to their thinking. Not by educating them, but by offering incentives – monetary benefits – etc. some times one wonder what difference is there between a religion like this and political party – except that in politics one can change the party as and when one feels where as religion one can not change too many times.
I suggest you kindly get into a discussion mode with people who are interested and see what is their thinking instead of all these court etc..In India, we have any number of instances where in people get a warrant even against president of India – but because it was a sting operation by a media to show the pathetic condition how our people act, probably the person who issued might have lost his job or may be in suspension getting half the salary until his case is decided – which may take another 20 years .
There is no disease worse than poverty
there is no poverty worse than ignorance.
so learn, teach, grow to maturity
February 13, 2007 at 9:46 pm
Chacko,
Your argument is illogical in multitude. Having gone through the website you mentioned i.e., christianaggression.com, which I visited for the first time, I don’t think any court would even entertain this case. The reason is that site is a subject specific blog posting articles found on various news sources. They are neither spreading hate or writing inflammatory articles. If you read a news item on LATimes against Christian fundamentalism and forward it to a couple of your friends. Is it called spreading hate? If a news paper publishes it is not hate whereas if it is distributed because somebody likes the article, do you call it hate?
I am also a Christian like you, hurt by the news articles they post but we have to accept that many people are misusing the message of Jesus.
February 13, 2007 at 9:54 pm
This is not to take sides. But you have to
admit that Christians of India do not have
their hands clean either. How missionaries
converted the Hindus forcibly can be explored at the links below. And there
are hundreds of Christian websites which
defame Hindu faith. You already know that!
http://www.burningcross.net/crusades/christian-india-terrorism.html
http://www.burningcross.net/crusades/christian-missionary-atrocities.html#India-Missionaries
February 13, 2007 at 10:30 pm
Conversions in India are not only highly unethical — that is, using unethical means of conversion — but also that they threaten a whole way of life, erasing centuries of tradition, customs, wisdom, teaching people to despise their own religion and look Westwards to a culture which is alien to them, with disastrous results. Francois Gautier
For once Hindus are waking up and protecting their culture. We Hindus never convert and you must also respect our dharma and stop conversion. Converted Hindus live with complex and conflict within, so why snatch anyone’s faith? Try doing that in a catholic country and you will end up in behind bars. The said website is only protecting our dharma and they must carry on the task.
February 13, 2007 at 10:41 pm
I am interested to hear that American evangelists and missionaries consider themselves to be Christians. I was under the impression that they were merely surrogates of Uncle Sam’s many imperialist ventures to enslave as many people as possible, especially all us darkies. Well, you got a right kicking in Vietnam, a handful of Iraqis have your pants down to your knees and you know want to mess with one billion Hindus.
Once a slave owner, always a slave owner. Stop hiding behind Jesus Christ, a perfectly harmless disciple of god we Hindus revere. But Yankee slave-owners go home or we will have to make you, just like the Iraqis are doing right now.
February 13, 2007 at 11:11 pm
This chako from kerala who claims to be a christian , were your forfathers christians too?
February 13, 2007 at 11:22 pm
Hello chako, How about filing a case against the following website??
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0070/0070_01.asp
February 14, 2007 at 12:46 am
dear chacko,
you seem to be a nice fellow.
But the things you said about the fellows
who run christian aggression site are not so nice.
you see hindus are very tolerant people. secularism is in their genes.Through out history India welcomed and gave shelter for people who were persecuted around the world. Be it syrian christians, Jews, parsis, and even sufi muslims.
In return , they are getting
paid of destroying their civilization.pope
comes to India and says 1st millenium Europe, 2nd millenium Americas, 3rd millenium Asia. There are a billion souls to be saved in India. Let us harvest those souls.Did all your ancestors go to hell because they were not christians. How would
you like some other religious head comes and says , you need to be saved otherwise
you are going to hell.
There are tremondous things
happening against majority interest, by an ignorant alien woman. For example in state of
andhra pradesh, non hindus are in control of hindu temples, and destroying hindu institutions systematically.How would you like the next pope to be a muslim for example.
February 14, 2007 at 12:53 am
Dear Chacko: I must commend you for taking the time out from saving these heathain souls, to write articles. It struck me that St. Paul Dinakaran’s private Boeing 747 is very much like the Holy Cross, but the arms are a bit bent. Very holy indeed. Are the Mercedes Benz fleets of the Holy See doing well, now that the Vatican is having to spend all those trillions covering up the baby-buggering lawsuits??? Talk about “men” with micro-penises – what do you think of all your Rear Reverends?
I note that you call yourself a Crusader. Ah! A true sample of the love and non-violence that Jesus Christ preached, no doubt?
“Love thy neighbor’s goat as thine own”???
February 14, 2007 at 1:16 am
Mr. Chacko, if you, as you claim, are possessed of a larger penis (what a crude way to describe your macho manhood!)than most complaining Hindus who contribute to Christianaggression website, then go take your campaign to any Muslim country like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc., all of whom vie with each other in suppressing Christians as infidels with great gusto. Your Jesus will be much more proud and grateful to you for saving him from all the humiliations that he and his loyal disciples have to suffer every day in any of these countries. Don’t abuse the privileges you are given as a minority by the meek Hindus, or you may have a place reseseved in ‘eternal’ Hell! After all, it was your Jesus who said “It is the meek who shall inherit the earth and reach Heaven”. Learn something from the Muslims of Indonesia who still respect the culture of their Hindu ancestors despite the dictates of their imposed religion of Islam.
February 14, 2007 at 1:46 am
Hi Guys,
Don’t blame Chacko. He represents the typical Indian Christian mentality and following Church’s cental message “Evil is anything which opposes the Church; Christians should destroy evil”. Due to this fascist mentality Christian denominations fight among themselves and steal other’s sheep.
Chacko was brought up in that environment so he cannot tolerate any questioning or oppostion.
There wasn’t much awareness among Jains and Hindus regarding Christian conversion activities but an average man has more knowledge about the sinster campaigns going on.
Earlier I wanted to donate some money to christianaggression.org who politely refused, which no Church ever does. If the people behind that site get into legal trouble Jain community will stand by them.
Does anybody know the people running that site? I want to talk to them.
February 14, 2007 at 3:12 am
That was a nice joke by Chakko..By the by y this attention seeking immature guy is threatening over here instead of filing a suit..if filing a suit plz let us know as well and also on which court u have filed it..Hope u will leave your address also while filing..awaiting your response chako..
February 14, 2007 at 3:22 am
Hi Mate..R u the very same Joseph working in Dubai??
Nice to know that you will be flying soon to US to file this case.
Convey my regards to Bush Uncle as well can you plz file a case against faithfreedom.org as well, I will pay u some Dinar..there are many other jewish sites as well who spits venom against us..Plz find out the procedure there in US and let me know..
When are you flying to US? U got your Visa cleared?
Any how happy Journey..u crusader..
Farooq
February 14, 2007 at 3:33 am
Abetting the missionaries and encouraging evangelism in India should be declared as an act of treason and people indulging in that should be stamped traitors.
The spreading of Christainity in India is diluting the very concept of India.She is a unique nation in this planet and she should be left alone.Please spread this concept.
February 14, 2007 at 5:56 am
Hi Chacko,
I have come across many like you who were hindus copule of generations back and converted to christianity for money. In fact I still remember a class mate of mine who used to preach during day condemning other religions and do all immoral activities at night. I feel it is the your guilty conscious of converting to another religion which makes you shout at other religions. Before speaking about others try to clean your own backyard.
February 14, 2007 at 6:12 am
Hi Chacko,
Are you saying that your pallil achans(fathers or preachers) can say lies about other religions but others are not allowed to expose you people. Do you know how many churches (Business houses) were closed in US last year as people started suing them for mollesting children. Every week you see christian preachers being arrested for illegal activities(i.e, money laundering , mollesting children ). The biggest real estate mafia in Kerala is run by one Yohanan. I know people who have been conned by him. MANY LIKE YOU GOT CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY FOR MONEY. For People likelike you christians)nothing comes before money not even your parents or brothers.
February 14, 2007 at 8:47 am
All one needs to know about Christianity is right here — the terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:
“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send peace, but a sword.
“For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
“And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
– Matthew 10:34-36.
February 14, 2007 at 8:50 am
All one needs to know about Christian aggression is right here — the terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian Bible:
“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. — Matthew 10:34-36.
So to this Christian Crusader can Hindus say: India is a Hindu country, if we have a problem, we will solve it. Please don’t create hate through your Jesus/Bible. Take down your Jesus/Bible by the end of this month. If you don’t, we will be reporting this matter to the Government of India and the US authorities. We will not let losers like you create divisions in our country in the name of your Jesus/Bible.
WHAT AGGRESSION? http://www.christianaggression.org/about_need.php
February 14, 2007 at 9:33 am
Hi Chacko,
I am from India. I have seen with my own eyes how blatantly conversions take place in my country. Well not so much in the north at the moment though the efforts are on. It is in the southern states, where you come from. It is openly done. Even in places like Tirupati, our holy place, it is rampant. There is perhaps no Hindu religious place in southern India which does not have a huge church, a large cross or other symbol of Christianity very close to the Hindu religious place. It all seems deliberate and a forceful way to establish your presence. And since in the south there is absolutely no resisitance to these things, christian fundamentalists are emboldend. I am not lying. Please visit the outskirts of Chennai to see what’s going on, not to speak of the interior regions of AP, Tamil Nadu, Kerala. Coming to northern India, that’s now the prime target. Even our Kumbh Mela is not spared by the missionaries. They just hate other religions. They want to follow the worse of what is their in the bible, i.e. spread Christianity, whichever way you can. Fraud, money, deceit it doesn’t matter. But sweep the world with christianity. It is these missionaries who are dividing families, spreading religious hatred and should be condemned.
February 14, 2007 at 9:43 am
Shameless article….
Churches in india are ighly active in converting poor hindus and if there is a website to expose their reality.. such article prop up!
February 14, 2007 at 10:20 am
Hate is more in this particular article and un-civilized language used by the author. Author better argue with the facts than claiming who wrote it or from where.
February 14, 2007 at 10:34 am
I don’t think I need to say more than just pasting the text from http://www.christianaggression.com/about_need.php itself:
You are probably wondering what is the aggression caused by Christians in India. You may wonder how can a minority religion that is only 3% of the population cause aggression in a nation of over 1,000,000,000 people. In the press, the aggresion and “persecution” of Christians is often publicized. However it is never publicized how Christian Fundamentalists often incite this cycle of violence and aggression.
The root cause of Christian aggression in India is caused by the fact that Christianity believes that Jesus Christ is the only son of god. He is supposed to have been sent to earth to wash away the sins of the people, and so redeem them. Of course, this happens only to those who accept him as the only son of god. All the others do not get the benefit who do not have this shared belief will be burnt in hell for all eternity.
Christianity says that it has a unique path to salvation, and all the other paths are false. While there is supposed to be some modification in these views, the acceptance is that all the other paths may at most be second best. Therefore, it is better if people accept Christianity and not take a chance.
Christians believe that they have been commanded by Christ to go and “save” (convert) the people of this world. This is also supposed to give them special merit when it comes to the day of final judgment.
While there are many Christians who today do not believe in this exclusivity, there are a still large number of misguided Christians who still believe that in the exclusivity of Christianity and the concept of saving souls.
It is this misguided belief that causes breeds a hatred and intolerance for other religions. and from this hatred, these Christian Fundamentalists begin their aggression to convert. And often they will go to any means to convert even if it means violence.
This website seeks to educate the world about the atrocities that conversions bring and to bring this aggressive nature of Christianity to an end.
June 12, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Good work Mr.Gupta..
February 14, 2007 at 10:35 am
Chacko,
All the best in your case, BTW way you seems to have disappeared.
RGDS
Suviraj
February 14, 2007 at 11:09 am
Guys,
Personal attacks, quotes from the Bible and sweeping generalisations aside, I do not think the author ever justified in terms of religion. His only concern seems to be that the website is creating rifts in the community – which may or may not be true. You are free to disagree.
Please realise that all forms of generalisation is dangerous and non-sensical. Whether it is “Christians has a fascist mentality”, “Muslims are terrorists” or “Hindus are evil-worshippers”.
So if you feel any Christian groups are guilty of doing forcible conversions, please be specific.
February 14, 2007 at 11:23 am
Forcible conversions or induced conversions are wrong and nowhere has Chacko said that he supports it.
February 14, 2007 at 11:51 am
Nita
Chacko has not gone into the site which collects all the hatred heaped by Christian websites and essentially exposes them. So Chacko is unhappy that the missionary hatred is exposed.
Missionary activities are generally covert and deceptive and done by inducements and taking advantage of poverty and sufferings of people – exploitative and unethical in nature.
The original articles are from Christian websites — take note of that
Here are some links from christianaggression – click on source
From Times of India
Tension in Tripura hills over mass conversion
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/India/Tension_in_Tripura_hills_over_mass_conversion/articleshow/1014905.cms
From Zee news
Himachal Pradesh passes anti-conversion legislation
http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=345082&sid=REG&ssid=
Hindustan Times (This link does not work but you can access the moscow news
Russian Archbishop calls Lord Krishna ‘Satan’
http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/12/08/krishnasatan.shtml
Robertson Says All Other Religions Worship “Demonic Powers”
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/2006/11/robertson_says.html
Who is spreading hate — go figure! Don’t blame the messengers, blame the intolerance of the Christian religion and their preachers who believes only their god is one and the only true on and all others are destined to eternal hell.
February 14, 2007 at 12:15 pm
hello all,
while we all agree that no personal attack or rift with our Dear Chacko, while – as Nita says – no where has Chacko said that he support conversion – forced or induced – the point also is no where he has stated anything against that also. It would have been nice if he had taken pains to present a case in a better way instead of just complaining and threatening.
We have no problems with DIVERSITY. We all enjoy Diversity as that is one most important factor that makes this life as beautiful inspite of the problems and suffering etc that we have around us.
Who stops any one if one wish to help others who are in distress? But who is interested in helping people in distress -for free? they want a pie for providing the ” help “.
This is the problem and the sooner it is understood better for the whole world.
February 14, 2007 at 12:33 pm
I think this Chacko chap would have done himself (and all of us spending time responding to his BS) a world of good to check if reports of aggressive proselytization India are true. Reports emerging from almost every part of India suggest that they are. Prospective converts are promised food, clothes, books, and even money to convert. What’s wrong if someone decides to expose this racket?
February 14, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Friends,
I really don’t understand why these stupid people staying miles away from India have to do with country?
Why Vatican is funding Christian missionaries in India?
Why they are setting alliance to hang Darasinh who killed priest in India?
This is Darasinhs country, what these pope, and bishops with small belongings, have to do with this?
This is our country, our problems, we will solve these internally.
AM I RIGHT CHACKO?
February 14, 2007 at 2:34 pm
The two arrogant and holier-than-thou monotheistic religions–viz, Christianity and Islam–have over the last two millenia, and will always remain a source of conflict and warfare in the world until they realize the basic Truth that God the Creator of the universe is, like the Sun and the Moon, one in every part of the world and bestows His beneficence and Compassion impartially to every one of His creation regardless of race, skin color, geography, national origin or religious beliefs, precsely because all of them are His children and are designed to carry the imprints of Hs prowess. As a Sanskrit verse narrates so beautifully: ” It is only the petty-minded who constantly dwell in creating divisions saying ‘this is mine, and that is not mine’. But the large-hearted persons know and live in the wisdom that the whole earth is but one harmonious famly”.
February 14, 2007 at 2:38 pm
I would like to thank all of you for your responses. I would like to especially thank Puneet Goel for providing a link to Chick publication’s cartoons. It thought it was really funny.
At the onset, I would like to state some facts about me. This is because a lot of you seem to be coming to your own conclusions about who I am, where I am, when my family converted and what’s the size of my penis.
1. I’m an Indian first. Religion to me is a personal matter.
2. I’m totally against forced or enticed conversions. It does more harm than good, particularly to the Christian community in India. I strongly support an Indian citizen’s right to choose the religion of his choice. It should be a personal choice.
3. My uncle was the only Christian (other than George Fernandez) to be a minister in the BJP led NDA union government. [This information is just to hint to you that my political ideology is not Left of centre]
4. When did my family become Christian? Frankly I don’t know. I have had access to records as far as the 1600 but Syro Malabar records before that were either lost or destroyed by the Portuguese – (The Syrian Christians fought the Portuguese because they wanted to impose their form of Christianity on us)
My post was against an American website spreading hate about the Christian community in India. The website does not give details about who is running the site nor about the authors who are sending them the reports. I did a google on the authors and they don’t seem to exist.
If there is a problem with missionaries in India, there is a mechanism within India to solve it. We don’t need people who have given up their Indian citizenships and taken an oath to protect and serve another constitution how to run our country. We don’t need these people/websites spreading false information about minorities in our country.
Why doesn’t Christianaggression.org site contactable sources? Why does Christianaggression.org register itself as an organization? Why is there no contact detail for Christainaggression.com other a Yahoo id? Why are most of the contact details for christainaggression.org domain left blank?
Manoj, Darasingh led a mob who burned three people, including two children alive. He was convicted by an Indian court. Let the law take its own course. I don’t think Vatican pays for Churches in India. Infact, we pay the Vatican for social missions around the world. There was a recent article in Indian Today about how Indian catholic priests are running Churches around the world. For example, the Vatican ambassador to Iraq is an Indian.
It’s a bit ironic that it took all of you so long to respond to my post and none of you have bothered to leave a real name or email address. Scared? Insecure?
February 14, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Chacko
I think you got your answer. When Christianity suffered in India whole Christian religion united to hang Darasinh. I appreciate.
When Hinduism is getting suffered in India because of alien religion, why NRI should not strike back?
Vatican is funding conversions across the world is truth, everyone is aware of it. In fact they are interfering in Tirumalla issue.
And buddy you will need to set new chain of courts in India to sue such people. Hindus are awakening.
And about nationality:
Hinduism teaches everyone to love their motherland. Matrubhumi.
February 14, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Manoj is that the best come back you could manage?
->When Christianity suffered in India whole Christian religion united to hang Darasinh.
It’s Darasingh. The whole country was united to make sure that this murderer of children is punished. Regardless of anybody’s religion. He was tried in court and sentenced.
->When Hinduism is getting suffered in India because of alien religion, why NRI should not strike back?
Strike back at what? Fellow Indians? What is an Alien religion? India is a secular republic just in case you hadn’t noticed.
->Vatican is funding conversions across the world is truth, everyone is aware of it. In fact they are interfering in Tirumalla issue.
I don’t know what is the Tirumalla issue. I also don’t know where you get your edition of the truth from. But you can now check with the Vatican itself if they are funding anything in India.
->And buddy you will need to set new chain of courts in India to sue such people. Hindus are awakening.
Good morning. Frankly I don’t care who is awake or sleep. If you spread misinformation about my country, I will sue you ass.
->Hinduism teaches everyone to love their motherland. Matrubhumi.
Since when did Arizona become Matubhumi of Hindus?
Have a red bull, think a bit more before you pollute the Internet.
February 14, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Well,
A cheap reply but up to expectations.
Strike back at what? (Aggression of dirty intension)
What is an Alien religion? (Religion which is being practiced in India, just because enforcement)
>>If you spread misinformation about my country, I will sue you ass.
It was pretty pleasant reply. Love India by heart.
>>Since when did Arizona become Matubhumi of Hindus?
Try to remember Madanlal Dhingra, Gadar, Abhinav Bharat Sanstha…..
Remembered????
February 14, 2007 at 4:33 pm
->A cheap reply but up to expectations.
Thank you.
->Strike back at what? (Aggression of dirty intension)
What is ‘Aggression of dirty intension’? You mean porn? Please don’t take that away.
->What is an Alien religion? (Religion which is being practiced in India, just because enforcement)
You mean all religions practiced in India are alien? ‘just because enforcement’ – I didn’t get that bit.
->>>If you spread misinformation about my country, I will sue your ass.
It was pretty pleasant reply. Love India by heart.
Ekdum dil se. Is your and those of you Arizona based buddies loving the same country ‘by heart’ as their passports?
>>Since when did Arizona become Matubhumi of Hindus? Try to remember Madanlal Dhingra, Gadar, Abhinav Bharat Sanstha…..Remembered????
Who are they? Your cousins? I know Gadar is movie starring Sunny Deol.
Come on Manoj, try harder, go beyond my expectations. Stop naming cousins.
February 14, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Huh
Madanlal Dhingra, Gadar, Abhinav Bharat Sanstha…..Remembered????
Who are they? You cousins?
Not my cousins. Dhingra was GOD. Everything for me. And all true Indians.
Now everyone can suggest you
Dont pollute internet with your craps.
February 14, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Dear Mr.Chacko,
Just writing in to thank you for suppling those vital parts (of information) in the 1st para of your complaint.It may be a small issue for some, but it helped me to find out whether the site in question is grrrrrreat or ’small(er)”.
My investigation shows that site is actually great ,so now ,you need not be insecure about it (since all of us know that ’smaller’ only causes insecurity ).
I am in awe of you.You are a great underwear– i mean undercover agent almost in the same league as James Bond ….that bit(small thing) about nri’s(please note that i have used small letters for them) operating from their homes is another vital part (of information)which helps to accurately pinpoint(again small)the size of their crusade.I’m glad you did’nt forget that information.
But you did withhold another vital part(of information)– the fact that the kind of people that make up this loser category comprises of doctors/ scientists /engineers etc etc .You are indeed so right they must be scum to have risen to the top of society and that is why from those heights they think size of christains =2.3 millimetre– i mean million which is considerably small can penetrate into red fort area…Ghosh! i’m getting confused –is christain size big or small(of population)……anyway who cares about these hindus who try to enforce no discrimination=one size for all ,in India……..
But you and I can fix them we have government of India(= Sonia christain Auntie) on our side…and by the God of small things we will.Till then take care……be happy ……i pray let even the small things in life bring you pleasure.
_CS
February 14, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Chacko
You have mentioned you are against “an American website spreading hate about the Christian community in India. ”
Now let us break that into two.
1. American Based: Does is really matter where a site is based in this internet age.
There are many reasons people prefer an American base.
The servers/host may be cheaper, more reliable, of course we have more IT personnel there. One very important consideration is censorship fears which is more in India and less in the United States.
So this question is a moot point.
2.Now mention spreading hatred about Christian community
This is the crux of your complaint. All else like you being an Indian blah, blah is irrelevant.
Now kindly let us know where and how does the website spread hatred about Hinduism.
Where is your proof. So far you have been repeatedly asserting that the site spread hatred, without an iota of proof.
I have given my proof that the site shows the hatred spread by Christian websites on Hinduism and other religions. Your goodself is blaming the messenger, I am sorry to say.
Methinkgs your goodself have not even gone thru the articles in the site. Please spend a few hours browsin and reading. And then come back to us.
I feel you are either no aware of feigning pretense over Christian evangelistic activities goin on India which have been creating a lot of problems. Such that even tiny Himachal Pradesh led by a Congress state government just recently made laws against forcible and fraudulent conversion practices.
Your effort will be better spent by confronting hatred spread by the missionaries intent on converting all non Christians to their religion.
February 14, 2007 at 5:14 pm
Mr.CS,
Your attempt at humour is… how shall I put it?…pretty lame.
->>the fact that the kind of people that make up this loser category comprises of doctors/ scientists /engineers etc etc .You are indeed so right they must be scum to have risen to the top of society and that is why from those heights they think size of christains….
Your point being?
->>But you and I can fix them we have government of India(= Sonia christain Auntie) on our side…and by the God of small things we will.
I’m not a Congress party supporter but Sonia Gandhi is an Indian Citizen, an elected MP and chairperson of the UPA.
Please don’t be concerned about my pleasure. I’m glad people like you are responding to this post. A collection of your IPs will help my FIR. Yes, that’s you in Delhi Mr. CS, Manoj in Mumbai and all our friends in Malaysia, UK and North America.
Maybe Sonia “Aunties” people might have a few words to say when you apply for your India visas, PIO cards.
Happy hating!
February 14, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Chacko
Please ignore my earlier message where I wrote Hinduism instead of Christianity. Below is the edited one.
You have mentioned you are against “an American website spreading hate about the Christian community in India. ”
Now let us break that into two.
1. American Based: Does is really matter where a site is based in this internet age.
There are many reasons people prefer an American base.
The servers/host may be cheaper, more reliable, of course we have more IT personnel there. One very important consideration is censorship fears which is more in India and less in the United States.
So this question is a moot point.
2.Now mention spreading hatred about Christian community
This is the crux of your complaint. All else like you being an Indian blah, blah is irrelevant.
Now kindly let us know where and how does the website spread hatred about Christianity
Where is your proof. So far you have been repeatedly asserting that the site spread hatred, without an iota of proof.
I have given my proof that the site shows the hatred spread by Christian websites on Hinduism and other religions. Your goodself is blaming the messenger, I am sorry to say.
Methinkgs your goodself have not even gone thru the articles in the site. Please spend a few hours browsin and reading. And then come back to us.
I feel you are either no aware of feigning pretense over Christian evangelistic activities goin on India which have been creating a lot of problems. Such that even tiny Himachal Pradesh led by a Congress state government just recently made laws against forcible and fraudulent conversion practices.
Your effort will be better spent by confronting hatred spread by the missionaries intent on converting all non Christians to their religion.
February 14, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Hey chako
CS is right
….undercover agent almost in the same league as James Bond
I am Pune not in Mumbai u ass.
Dont try to be smart dude. Get some life.
Lolz
February 14, 2007 at 5:27 pm
Dear Venkat in Malaysia.
It doesn’t matter where you are based. As long as you are an Indian citizen and don’t attack any particular religion in India.
You are worried about censorship ‘fears’ in India? So you prefer an American host? Hmm.. that’s pretty ironic.
->>All else like you being an Indian blah, blah is irrelevant.
You guys really don’t get it do you? Being an Indian citizen is my number one identity. It’s not blah-blah Venkat.
->>What is your proof?
You will soon find out. My lawyers are putting together the required documents. Why spoil all the fun in advance? We are going to have so much fun!
->>Your effort will be better spent by confronting hatred spread by the missionaries intent on converting all non Christians to their religion.
Have you considered why there are so many people converting to Buddhism? Why haven’t you launched a site called Buddhistaggression? What will that get you? Where is it going to stop?
February 14, 2007 at 5:30 pm
Manoj, thank you once again.
February 14, 2007 at 5:32 pm
Chacko 007
Oh you must be high profile ass, arent u?
You must be having fleet of security guards, Bullet proof cars, ambulances, LAWYERS, techno savvy computer engineers…..
Lolz
February 14, 2007 at 5:35 pm
…and loads of bare naked women
February 14, 2007 at 5:42 pm
Guys, please keep the discussion to the subject and avoid making personal remarks – and that is applicable to the author as well.
Comments will be disabled if this is going to end up an an immature shouting match.
February 14, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Chacko
So far you have not proved the hatred part. You have mentioned about being Indian, something about your uncle
about Arizona, about all kinds of stuff not related to your to your central assertion.
I will be very pleased if you bring a lawsuit since it will
give a lot of publicity to the website and deceptive missionary practises. Do keep us updated.
February 14, 2007 at 6:18 pm
Yeah Chocko The 007
Waiting for your invitation……….
February 14, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Dear Chacko,
Are you troubled that the natives of India (read Hindus) are at last becoming conscious of the wrongdoings against them? If so, dear Chacko, naive are you to have not anticipated it. Life is a cycle. and you shall get what you throw at others. You sowed the seeds of hatred since independece (from even before) and now are reaping the fruits. If you will not learn now, when else will you?
Any country has to live by its rules, dear sir. Rules of our country are about tolerance – yes, but it should be two sided. When the meek is angry – the world cannot stand it. Right now hindus are meek. You (the church included) do not want us (0.8 Billion hindus) angry, especially in our own country.
Om. Peace. Peace. Peace.
reg,
k
February 14, 2007 at 8:00 pm
Dear Chaco,
You are saying you are indian first. Any Indian’s first act in case of criticism is introspection… have you done it. Have you tried to verify whatever is mentioned in the web site you wanted to ban. Let me put you the own example of mine how the christians behaved in my own village… Once they gain the critical mass(of course all of them were almost lured into christianity… If you want I can provide you the details of my own friends how they got into christianity) they resisted the traditional vinayaka chavithi celebrations thru that street. At the same time there was a converted christian family in my neighbourhood who was putting the ‘Keertans on Jesus Christ’ every morniing. I am telling this for you to understand who is hating who… Few families in one area could stop a tradition and one family in another area could freely follow what they like even it disturbs the majority.
Uncoverinng the truth doesn’t come under the hatred… You always had a choice of uncovering any false messages in the mentioned website… but you have taken the route of force… Anyway as our ideal is ‘Truth only Triumphs’ .. Satyameva Jayate
And the thing I most wondered are your comments on our patriotic fighters for freedom… that makes you less of an Indian.. You are talking one side for the country and other side making degradable comments on our freedom fighters (Madan Lal Dhingra etc)
February 15, 2007 at 12:04 am
Dear chacko,
I have seen the website. always truth wins. ’satyameva jayate’. So, why bother about these things. I do not think one should waste energy in checking who runs what website and what response we should give. Jesus asked us to give love to people. Gandhiji also told the same. We rather go do some better business, serve the needy. Nothing will drown, if someone writes some thing in a website. If it is true people will be careful about missionaries. Missionaries have to be ashamed, if they are doing that. Else, they laugh at these website owners. However, now a days, even I am reading some mews about missionaries giving money to people who get converted. I feel, that is wrong, in any case. One should get converted to other faith, if they understand the same. They should not be converted for money or some other benefits. That is wrong. Not sure if Jesus had asked us to do this. I believe that there is only one God. All ways lead to same destiny. If I believe in Jesus, I can continue to do so. If some one else believes in Rama/Krishna, they can do so. Religion is personal. One need not publicize it through a missionary. My servant was telling that she started going to church and they asked her to remove the photos of hindu gods at her house and so on…Why should one say that. i strongly feel that it is wrong. These things create tension in the society. What is the problem, if everyone continue in their religion. That way, hindus are beetter. they are not asking muslims and christians to convert to Hinduism. even though they are majority here in india. Actually, christianity is getting bad name because of these missionaries, i feel. Share your opinion about it.
February 15, 2007 at 12:42 am
Christianity is not a theory or speculation, but a life; not a philosophy of life, but a life and a living process. The moral and religious system which Jesus Christ transmitted to us is the best the world has ever seen, or can see. I believe in Christianity as I believe that the Sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. Christianity simply does not make sense until you have faced the sort of facts I have been describing. Christianity tells people to repent and promises them forgiveness. It therefore has nothing (as far as I know) to say to people who do not know they have done anything to repent of and who do not feel that they need forgiveness. And finally … I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag and to the Savior, for whose Kingdom it stands, one Savior, crucified, risen, and coming again, with life and liberty for all who believe.
February 15, 2007 at 5:12 am
Lisa, let us not get sidetracked here. I am keen to find out about the hatred that Christian Aggression purpotedly thrives on.
With respect to your exposition on your religion, Hey, Lisa — let us be straightforward here. What you are trying to say is that Christianity is the only one and true religion and Jesus is the god, all the rest of beliefs including Hinduism are wrongs and our Gods are demons and devils.
That leaves no space for tolerance, and pluralism for other beliefs from a Christian viewpoint.
So who spreads hatred messages about other religions then. I rest my case.
February 15, 2007 at 6:25 am
Chaco,
Reading hate material online does raise the hatred levels, but not to the extent that we get incited to hit/hurt someone. Eventually those levels reduce and we are back to business giving the hatred material its due place as yet another post.
The people who are bent on creating the divide or someone else. They do it whether there is hatred ,aterial online or not. We should be tackling the foot soldiers not the online pumpers. It is easy to find the foot soldiers. The government knows the wherabouts of these people and yet it shows ignorance.
We all know the Modi government has turned a blind eye to gujarath carnage.
We all know, it was BJP/RSS/VHP combine which brought down babri masjid. We all know that it was local congress unit in Delhi which started anti-sikh riots in 1984.
We all know, it is Pakistan which is sustaining the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.
We all know, it is America which is creating troubles around the world.
But, are we able to handle these people and punish them?
Leaving all these direct pointers, going after online punkers is not going to fetch anything for us.
They write, write & write and one day disappear. Because, they don’t make any difference in this world.
February 15, 2007 at 6:32 am
I am proud to be a Hindu and Hindusim is not just ‘a philosophy of life’ but a religion.
But I will never ever try to persuade anyone to become a Hindu. And I will never imply that another religion is just a ‘philosphy’ or whatever. All religions are religions. If I believe that Hinduism is the best way to reach God, it does not mean that I do not respect another’s right to reach God in another way.
February 15, 2007 at 7:04 am
Nita
Your comments are good. Hindus could not care less what the other person believes or not believes. That is why we are the most pluralistic and tolerant countries in the world.
However tolerance also has its limits. We cannot tolerant the intolerant. Otherwise the intolerant will take over. The saying goes
Dharmo Rakshati Rakshitah meaning Dharma protects only if you protect dharma.
So exposing the hatred of christian websites as christian aggression is doing is dharma and not hatred.
See below — a long and absorbing article on Nagaland which is the only Christian majority state and they are fighting for A christian country — no democracy, no secularism. Go figure who is spreading hate.
Daily Herald : Passage from IndiaA. The slogan, Nagalim for Christ, arose out of the conviction of the Nagas, … “Nagalim for Christ” is the manifestation that Nagas can never part with …
http://www.dailyherald.com/special/passagefromindia/nagaland_qa.asp –
Naga: Message to the Naga People on Nagalim Republic DayGOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF NAGALIM … That the Naga Nation shall be ‘a People’s Republic’ and march on under the banner, ‘Nagalim for Christ’. …
http://www.unpo.org/article.php?id=4086
February 15, 2007 at 10:51 am
@Nita – Just to make you aware there is no religion as such _Hindu_. The religion we (so called Hindus) follow is _SNANATAN DHARMA_. Hindu world got associated with us after Indus Valley Civilization. Don’t know the exact date, but people on the other side of Sindhu River use to call us Sindhu (we on other side of sindhu river) and when they pronounced it sounded Hindu to others. If i remember it was after Alexander the Great, but if you want i can tell you the dates after referring the books.
This is just an enlightenment on this so called Hindu and Hinduism. Its all rubbish, Only thing is Santana Daharam – which is a way of life to be practiced.
@Venkat – I’m not sure what you are trying to say Here. What is yr point in response to chackos post
And to rest of the readers, please do not indulge in personal comments and lets discuss this in a matured way and come to a conclusion which
can be passed onto others and help them in making their opinion on this issue
February 15, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Vishal
You are right,
But I think no religion is wrong. And all teaches the way of living. Some faiths and beliefs might differ.
You may call Jesus, Yeshu, Isa is the same.
Allah, Khuda is same.
Sanatan Dharma, Hindu Dharma is same.
And about Hindu / Sanatan Dharma:
Why Hindus are different?
Because every religion on earth were started by Prophets, their commands became final words for that religion.
Hindus never had prophets. No god created religion. Our gods were follower of our religion.
Our religion always been accepted by others, without any force.
February 15, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Vashist Vishal
1. I am still waiting for Chacko to show me hatred in the christianaggression.org site
2. Manoj : You say
******** But I thin no religion is wrong. And all teaches the way of living. Some faiths and beliefs might differ.
You may call Jesus, Yeshu, Isa is the same.
Allah, Khuda is same. ************
Show me where does it say in Quran or in Bible that Jesus, Khuda, Allah are same. What you are saying is from the vedas which proclaim … truth is one, sages call it different names. So we Hindus or Sanathana Dharmas are able to accept Gods with all types of names and forms and all religions as well.
Where are the verses in the bible and quran to support your claim, Manoj?
In Christianity, Jesus is the only true God, all our Hindu gods are false. And Muslims believe — Islam is the only true religion and all is the only true prophet.
Please get your facts correct. And do not mislead people. Hindus are kafirs and infidels according to these religions. They do not accept our religion or gods.
Christian description of Hindu gods
http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnist1.asp?main_variable=Columnist&file_name=KANCHAN7.txt&writer=KANCHAN&validit=yes
Treatment Of Kafirs In Islam
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/kafir.html
February 15, 2007 at 3:41 pm
After actually visiting the site, I can’t imagine what sort of lawyer would dare to touch ChristianAggression.org with a legal barge pole, let alone a full-on lawsuit. Methinks you bluff, Chacko.
As for the name, it pretty much speaks for itself: Christian Aggression. Which is exactly what the site is about … documenting information on Christian religious aggression. If you can point out where it engages in actually promoting violence against Christians, maybe I would look at it differently.
By the way, nice choice of words: “involved in a CRUSADE to save India from the Christians”
February 15, 2007 at 4:05 pm
India is now 6% Christian.due to aggressive conversion
The 2005 edition of the World Christian Database says that India is now 6% Christian. The government of India last conducted a census on the Indian population in 2001 said that Hindus were 81.4% of the population followed by Muslims at 12.4% and Christians at 2.3%. However, the more recent data from the World Christian Database states that Hindus are now 74% of the population and Christians are 6% of the population. The recent data suggests that the rampant and aggressive conversion by Christian missionaries is much more widespread than previously acknowledged. Religious breakdown in India according the World Christian Database:
Hindu: 74%
Muslim: 12%
Christian: 6%
Sikh: 2%
All other: 5%
Not religious: 1%
http://www.worldchristiandatabase.org/
February 15, 2007 at 4:45 pm
@ Venkat
>>You may call Jesus, Yeshu, Isa is the same.
Allah, Khuda is same.
Sanatan Dharma, Hindu Dharma is same.
* My comparison only between names
Name of Jesus: isa, yeshu etc
Name of allah: Khuda, parvardigar etc
Name of Hindu religion: Sanatan Dharma
Actually Vishal had some objection with name Hindu. I wanted to explain him Whats in name?
In India you can find Christians having Hindu names. In Indonasia 90% Muslims having Hindu names like Vishnu, Rama, Laxmi etc.
Even Christians in my town (got converted for money) still praying lord Ganesha at their home. Muslim women refused to abandon Mangalsutra.
And Friends Vatican funding missionaries in India:
http://www.missionindia.org/
Where is my friend??????
Must be busy with bare…..
February 15, 2007 at 4:47 pm
n.Krishna,
We love to hear your views – please try to make it short and sweet like the one above. Not copy paste tons of text from other websites – 7 of your exceptionally long comments has been marked as spam.
February 15, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Now that the truth about the devious, cruel and often barbaric deeds of the missionaries are exposed, Chacko and his/her lot, who no doubt profit enormously from selling Indian souls to the highest christian bidder, is livid with anger at the exposure. Many who have been mercilessly exploited by the christian missionaries because they were poor have always known about their two-faced, deviousness. But it is only with the advent of the internet that experiences can be told to wider audiences. So, before chacko condemns the web for their articles exposing christianity in India, maybe his/her approach should be to question the missionaries and christian fanatics in India on why they behave badly and exploit the masses all in the pretense of ’social work?’
Further, whether or not the web creators are based in the US is immaterial. The acts of these devious missionaries are universal. The truth therefore needs to be exposed! I fuly support the christianaggression website.
February 15, 2007 at 4:52 pm
@ Chacko the 007
EXTRACTS FROM http://www.missionindia.org
{Why India?
As Christians, we feel compelled to act…
Until the last generation, India was a forgotten nation on the far side of the world. Today it has leaped into the foreground as one of the most important players in world events.
India will soon surpass China as the world’s most populous nation. One of every six people on earth lives in India.
A nuclear standoff makes the border between India and Pakistan one of the most dangerous places in today’s world.
Poverty in India’s slums and rural villages is among the worst in the world. As Christians, we cannot ignore these needs.
India contains one fourth (412 million) of the 1.6 billion people on earth who never heard the Gospel.}
Wake up dude, be a true Indian, sue your cousins.
February 15, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Manoj, The website you mentioned has nothing to do with the Vatican or any Indian Church. As its website says, “Mission India is a U.S. registered, tax-exempt 501(c)(3) non-profit organization.”
February 15, 2007 at 5:02 pm
yeah but the funding comes from vatican. Or though not from vatican, it comes from US. It means, foreign people interfering in our matters. We(Indians) are not resisting them. Why we (indians) should resist NRI?
February 15, 2007 at 5:05 pm
I would like to make a point here. There is no denying that religious Christians and Muslims consider it one of their duties to bring non-believers to their religion.
So if some Hindus agree to convert their religion just by seeing money or other benefits – they are as guilty of having a petty mind as the people who offer it. I dont see why Hinduism as a religion should be proud of having them back just for the sake of numbers.
Any ideology which is true will have its set of followers no matter what propaganda happens. Because unlike the believers, an ideology cannot be killed.
February 15, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Woke
Its our duty to bring misleaded people on right track. These people are part of us.
I agree they remained in dark because of some pseudo-fundamentalists in Hindu. Now Hindus are getting back to ancient Vediac culture. We need thse people to be with us.
February 15, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Guys and Gals
I am sorry to say so far Chacko has not come up with shred of evidence that the website preaches hatred. It exposes hatred instead.
I hope Chacko like a true ‘Indian’ confronts his overenthusiastic preacher and threaten to sue them. They are the main cause of friction between Hindus and Christians and unfortunately normal Christians are caught in the tangle.
In Fabric is unique .. we are most the most diverse and pluralistic country, many shortcomings notwithstanding.
Let us enjoy this pluralism and secularism and try to to make a Christian nagaland or Muslim Kashmir our of the rest of the country.
February 15, 2007 at 5:27 pm
sorry. I forgot to add in the “not”
The last sentence should read
Let us enjoy this pluralism and secularism and try “not” to to make a Christian nagaland or Muslim Kashmir our of the rest of the country.
February 15, 2007 at 6:18 pm
Manoj,
If you think they are misled, you should be helping to spread the values of Hinduism – not pointing out what is wrong with other religions. By doing so, you are only aping the people you are fighting against.
February 15, 2007 at 6:36 pm
only foolish and self centered groups/ religions indulge in trying to interfere with religious beliefs of others.no one or no religion can claim patent on god or truth.
‘Sarva deva namaskaraha kesavam (or god by any other name ) prathigatchathi.all prayers addressed to gods by different names reach the ONE and the SAME GOD. to learn this truth all heads of all religious beliefs should visit india or at least try to read good religious books from india or from westerners who have studied vedanta.i was onced amused to hear from a protestant or pentecostal preacher that he had converted a catholic praying in the velankanni chuch in besant nagar chennai to his brand of christianity. possibly one day he will try to convert the pope too!
February 15, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Venkat, Let’s wait a few more days and find out what happens and who is bluffing. How US authorities would react, how my FIR is taken up and what the US hosting company will do.
And Venkat don’t forget Lakshadeep Islands, they are 100% Muslims. And Sikkim, they are Buddist. And Kerala, more than 50% non-Hindus.
What does any of this got to do with my post?
Manoj,
->>Or though not from vatican, it comes from US. It means, foreign people interfering in our matters. We(Indians) are not resisting them. Why we (indians) should resist NRI?
The Vatican and the US are not the same. Christianagression.org is an American website. If you hadn’t noticed, this whole post was about THAT very point. Nothing else. Nobody is resiting NRI, I’m an NRI too. But if you give up your Indian passport, you are no longer a NRI.
And finally Mr S D’souza in Singapore. Unlike the US, Singapore has extreme measures against hate speech.
February 15, 2007 at 8:01 pm
chacko,
whats with Singapore and D’souza?
He has a valid point – in that the site is only a compilation of articles and do not seem explicitly incite any hatred.
February 15, 2007 at 8:41 pm
@ Woke
You are right.
I am not pointing any other religion!
Neither m associated with christian aggression.
I am here just because I havent found any wrong thing on that website.
@ Chacko
I just wanted to show u Indian Missionaries getting fueled by non Indians. If you cant sue them, dont try to mess with Hindus in other countries.
Again @ Chacko the 007
Dont try to prove your computer knowledge, nobody is here to know who is who or who is where?
You cant detect anyone, even your knowledge(?) cant work here. I m from Pune not from Mumbai.
Waiting for your invitation.
February 15, 2007 at 9:21 pm
i think all those who see the world around them with open eyes can clearly make out how hindus are being converted. i dont find anything wrong if other hindus are worried about it. its natural, as natural as every one goes to toilet every morning. every race, community is and should be careful about its own existance. countries become stronger like that, look at israel. what if jews had same way of thinking as majority of hindus are having. they would have never got reunited.
my dear hindus, there is nothing wrong if you are worrried about conversions, its not a sin to protest against it, not a crime if you try to stop it.
but its definitely a crime if you support it.
in my own department there is a tecnician who tries to preach patients about christianity, he himself is a converted christian….
my dear secularists, dont be hypocratic, dont be so proud of your big penis, one day it will also get converted.
February 15, 2007 at 11:42 pm
hey Chakke Chacko, its high time u n ur likes STFU.
February 16, 2007 at 5:47 am
Chaccko
True Lakshadweep Islands, Kerala etc have high percentage of minorities. But they are not located in a conducive area such as in the borders. Eg in the North East states the Church virtually rules and actives encourages terrorism.
Christian Conversions and Terrorism in North-East India …Most of the terrorist organizations in the entire region follow this pattern. The Church in the North-East is also known to be associated with smuggling …
http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?id=1141970933&type=articles
Chacko, this subject needs as much of publicity as possible. So I look forward to your suit. Your help is appreciated.
February 16, 2007 at 9:00 am
Chacko,
Where is your place in kerala?I think you have no guts to reveal your address.
February 16, 2007 at 10:24 am
Dear Christians,
I swear when I was doing college back in ‘92, one converted christian was claiming his penis size became 2 inches longer after he became christian and he was trying to convert everyone by promising to make it longer. Yes, I am 100% truthful, it happened. I answered him : ‘to make it longer, it is enough for me to look sexy photo. I don’t need christ’. I think, irrespective of your gender, christians will always think about penis which is 2.5% of body like Christians in India.
At one point of time the same 2.5% was ruling entire India. Even after independence of India in 1955, christians killed Hindu’s in Goa ( read Goa’s history).
thanks for your time,
Jay
February 16, 2007 at 10:41 am
@ Jay
Jay from Planet moon
My lawyer is making FIR, My software engineers will spot you very soon, My cops will catch you
Be prepared I will sue you.
Lolz
February 16, 2007 at 10:52 am
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0070/0070_01.asp
http://www.burningcross.net/crusades/christian-india-terrorism.html
Dear christians,
Please read the above links provided by our friends. After all you all belong to those
February 16, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Dont worry Jay,
I will sue them all. I am true indian thogh I dont know Madanlal Dhingra, Though I cant think beyond bollywood movies, I am indian.
I will sue you Jay.
Lolz
February 16, 2007 at 2:24 pm
@ dr.n.k.s.aravind
You are right sir, I have seen these Christians trying various ways to convert Hindus. Need for doing this is money and power. All converted people themselves feel shy that some fools have converted them. They feel shy that they have been fooled by using some tricks, and to hide that they are trying to make as many persons fools as they can.
Instead of working to correct the mis beliefs and superstitions they ran away. And now after being a Christian they pretend to do this holy work under the name of conversion.
I would like to tell these converted brothers that our doors are still open for you. You can come back and be a Hindu again.
You can get benefited by yoga and ayurveda.
Even if you don’t want to be a Hindu again,
you can use these sciences.
February 16, 2007 at 2:44 pm
If go back to history you will easily know that Christians have been using lot of money power to increase their numbers.
Take example of East Timor,first Priests came there and preached peace.They increased in number and started terrorism against the govt.Once sucessful they divided and formed a new nation.Exactly this is what they plan in North East India.
In the name of God they are just spreading Christian hegemony in world.
February 16, 2007 at 3:10 pm
@ Prasad
You are right. Even in Pune I saw several Brahmins converted by Portuguese are still practicing Hindusism, they worship Sun daily.
They are vegetarian. But they call themselves a christian. Just because they hated Hinduism of medieval age (which was cursed with full of impurities). They are Practicing Hinduism, have access to temples but having a tag of Christianity.
Strange!
February 16, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Look at people that were targetted and converted — by Christian missionaries — Native Americans, Hawaiians, Aborigines of Australia, Maoris of New Zealand — they culture got destroyed, they were decimated, impoversished and enslaved.
Why missionaries do not send money to Christian countries in Africa, South America, Filippines — they all are reeking in poverty.
Hindus have to be very careful …otherwise one day we will end up like these dispossesed, decimated natives.
Check this out – the love of Christian missionaries.
Hindu Holocaust-Goan Inquisition
Historian Alfredo DeMello describes the performers of Goan inquisition as … The Goan inquisition is regarded by all contemporary portrayals as the most …
http://www.geocities.com/hindoo_humanist/goa1.html
February 16, 2007 at 3:27 pm
Look at this:
Weapons & Wine: A Case Of Tahiti
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/deception.html
In 1795 the London Missionary Society was formed, its immediate attention focused upon the Pacific; two years later a convict ship bound for Australia put the first missionaries ashore on Tahiti. It was four years before any of them learned enough of the local language to be able to preach a sermon to a puzzled though sympathetic audience.
The Tahitians built houses for them, fed them, and provided them with servants galore, but after seven years not a single convert to Christianity had been gained. The missionaries opted for a more brutal tactic and gained the upper hand by helping to reduce the local chief called Pomare to an alcoholic and then offered him backing in a war against other islands chiefs by supplying firearms (the enemy having only wooden clubs to defend themselves).
But Pomare would be backed in a war against the other island chiefs on the understanding that:
his victory would be followed by enforced conversion. Since Pomare was supplied with firearms to be used against its opponents’ clubs, victory was certain. ‘The whole nation’, Orsmond wrote, ‘was converted in a day.’ [18]
With their power base firmly established in Tahiti, the missionaries moved swiftly to the outer islands. The methods they employed were as before. A local chieftain would be baptised, crowned king, introduced to large quantities of alcohol and left to the work of converting his own people. Chieftains who put up any form of opposition were quickly shown the might of the missionary forces.
Where no resistance was found, a native teacher supported by a half dozen missionary police would take over an island within a week. [19] What a way to love your neighbour!
February 16, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Venkat From Mauritius
wait
I will sue you
In fact I started blogging to sue all people.
You all are wrong.
I am the great soul.
I will sue you
February 16, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Vishal,
Let me put my thoughts here.
You said Hinduism is not a religion and “Only thing is Santana Daharam – which is a way of life to be practiced”. But I think its not true although many people try to prove the same. It’s true that it doesn’t have a centered body like Christians have, but it doesn’t mean it is not a religion. Religion is a way of life for many, so Hinduism is a religion. If Hinduism is not a religion, then we will have to say Islam is also not a religion and its just a way of life because they also do not have a centered religious body like Vatican for Catholics.
Hinduism, Christianity and Islam are all religions and at the same time a “way-of-life” and all of them preaches or follows their own way of life.
As for Hinduism in the present days, it does have a governing religious body and the only difference is its not a centered one, but multiple bodies based on castes. Paandi Samooham (for Tamil Brahmins), SNDP (for Eezhavas), Pulaya Maha Sabha (for Pulaya caste), NSS (for Nairs), Ezhuthachan Samaajam (for Ezhuthachans) and many many more as such. They work almost the same way as the Christian church. Theirs is a close-knit community (although it is different, based on the caste system) like Christian churches like RC.
So I do not find much meaning in the debate about “organized religion” and such crap.
I do agree there are conversions that are forceful based on the monetary benefits. But at the same time, there are many who have converted without any of these benefits and that is primarily because of the caste based differences they had to undergo in Hindu religion. Those of people who have seen only the Christian conversions shall take a look at the mass Buddhist conversions from Hinduism. What is the sole reason of those mass conversions? Caste based atrocities. During the birth anniversary of Ambedkar, there were mass conversions organized (every year its happening), and they do not do it for caste based atrocities. But since it is about the caste, most of the fundamentalist Hindus try not to speak a word about that.
Also it is a common mis-conception that ALL Christians try to convert people of other faith. It is not true. Atleast not the case with people whom I have seen here in Kerala.
I repeat what I said in a previous comment here, if a religion (or way of living as you put it) could survive more than 1000s of years, it will still survive if it has anything good in it. Why this insecurity feeling?
Fundamentalists, be it in any religion, try to take an advantage over its members. What we forget during this “getting-uglier-discussion” is just that.
February 16, 2007 at 4:59 pm
One correction -
Read this,
During the birth anniversary of Ambedkar, there were mass conversions organized (every year its happening), and they do not do it for caste based atrocities.
as this:
During the birth anniversary of Ambedkar, there were mass conversions organized (every year its happening), and they do it because of caste based atrocities.
February 16, 2007 at 5:44 pm
Mass based conversions have no meaning be it to christianity or Buddhism. For example many converted to Buddhism due to Ambedkar. Had he converted to Islam/Christianity — his followers would have done the same.
Conversion is meaningful only if you have studied a faith for many years, explored it and then convert. This is how many westerners have taken to Buddhism in the west.
But converting due to anger, monetary inducements, coercion etc has no meaning. A person who converts to Buddhism one day .. he can easily convert to another religion – which offers more ‘fringe benefits’
All these just make a mockery of religion and god.
February 16, 2007 at 6:06 pm
Everyone has freedom of expression. It is silly to ban this organization. As a Hindu, I support their views, and many American colleagues, who are no more Christians, feel the same way. Christians in India are out to destroy Hinduism. Example is YSR in Andhra- While temples are under govt. control in AP, so temple lands and money can be looted, the Mosques and Churches are left autonomous. Christians are aggressively trying to infiltrate into Tirupathi to build Churches. Can the Vatican allow us Hindus to build temples inside? Of course not. Can Mecca even allow non-Muslims in? Of course not. In India, Hindus are labeled as terrorists, while the true terrorists are made heros.
Try to ban CAIR or someother anti-USA organization- that is worthwhile. Meanwhile, I think the ‘Christianagression.org’ is well adviced toi remove their disclaimer on their website. Instead, I recommend that the organization insert ‘Christ never existed’ (read Ken Humphries’ book). This stupid cult is setting science education backwards in USA (especially in the Kansas!).
February 16, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Ofcourse Jo, Hinduism is a religion. The reason I did not respond to Vishal’s comment was that it is so obvious that Hinduism is a religion that there was no need for me to respond.
Talking of casteism, every religion has its bad aspect. As Jo pointed out the caste system is the bad aspect of Hinduism. However we are doing everything in this country to remove this. It will take time for the society to change…but it will eventually. The changes are evident in urban areas now. Every right thinking Hindu wants to get rid of it. The main thing is acknowledge whats wrong and fix it. In fact the wonderful thing about Hinduism is its ability to accept criticism. Tolerance and acceptance of other view are the virtues of this great religion, and for me these qualities show an exalted state of mind, something beyond humanness. Something Godly.
February 16, 2007 at 6:53 pm
>> Venkat: You are right Venkat. Mass conversions is mostly based on the Dalit activism and caste based issues.
I totally agree with your other thoughts on conversion as well. Rightly said.
February 16, 2007 at 7:04 pm
>> Nita: The Caste system is not only the problem of Hinduism, but all Indians. Perhaps it is the Indian mindset (obviously formed through the ancient Hindu texts) to see the rich and colored in high esteem and see the rest in the poor light. Eventhough there were social reformers like Sri Narayana Guru in Kerala and Swami Vivekandan (It is a famous story that Swamiji called Kerala as a lunatic asylum when he saw the caste based atrocities in the old days) things haven’t changed much.
Christians are also not any different. All Catholics in Kerala think theier forefathers were Brahmins and proud to put it like that and mention their family names etc. They see Latin Catholics as second class since they believe Latin Catholics are converted fishermen.
I don’t think this Indian mindset has changed. A highly educated youngster once on top of a heating discussion explicitly wrote in his blog that the lower caste cannot ever challenge the Brahmin intelligence. See, it came from a young, educated and urban iyengar boy. I believe the urban people are more conservative than the rural peopel when it comes to caste based differences but they try not to show it publically. Education made people hide their real face and but the mindset remains the same.
Also we have to read this along with people treating those who do the “low-class” (according to the society standards) jobs. We see them as second class or third class. We have a thing or two to learn from the western countries like USA about how to respect people irrespective of their educational and financial background. We treat poor as second or third class citizens and do not value their dignity.
I can tell this with utmost honesty because I know it from my own experiences. I had worked as an office boy, workshop boy, bakery sales man and I worked for four years as a Goldsmith. No, it was not part of a hobby or earn-while-learn thing, but because of the poor financial condition of my family. I have experienced how people treated me when I said I was a Goldsmith. IT has changed my whole life and having a blue collar job in an MNC earns me a lot of respect. People who ignored me in the past days are now coming to me for advise on what profession should their sons/daughters should opt after their graduation. I can only smile seeing the eagerness on their faces.
I will stop now, I got too excited.
Unfortunately we are accusing each other on the basis of religion without changing this mindset of ourselves.
February 16, 2007 at 7:14 pm
Venkat,
I just read your comment again and if you meant that mass conversions have nothing to do with caste based atrocities, I am not supporting that. Dalits are converting to other religions because they are denied justice in Hinduism and fundamentalist Hindus are venting their anger on them. The latest example is Khairlanji when an entire village raped an educated young girl and brutally murdered her and her family.
But you have a point there that there are conversions to Buddhism happening because of Ambedkar and he believed that Hinduism is not going to help Dalits.
February 16, 2007 at 8:46 pm
Hullo, I never said that the caste system was the only problem of Hinduism! But there have been reformers like raja ram mohan roy who have tried to set things right. He was ancient, but even now we have people doing it. There are many many problems in Hinduism my friend, and there are problems in ALL organised religions. I think organised religion itself has become a problem.
As to the discrimination you are talking about, there is discrimination of some kind everywhere, against women, against races, against coloured people, against people of a certain caste, a certain religion, a certain class, against old people (jobs-wise), against the disabled (in India), and the list goes on. I feel the women thing the most because I have experienced it the most. The discrimination one feels most keenly is one that is personally experienced. Every individual finds his own way of dealing with it. I personally avoid people who are sexist. And then when I saw that blog post of this guy Vulturo (I went there from your blog) I was livid! Mad! But then I calmed down. I have made it a point to avoid people like that in my personal life, so why was I bothered about a man who I had never met, never will meet who talked of women as if they were sex objects? This kind of sexism is more rampant with people who live in a certain part of the country, but that doesn’t mean that my husband and me don’t have friends from that part of the country. Generalisations are dangerous and I feel tempted to make them, but finally we are all individuals and each individual is different.
February 16, 2007 at 11:21 pm
Very well said Nita. I second you on that note.
February 17, 2007 at 1:15 am
>>I believe the urban people are more conservative than the rural peopel when it comes to caste based differences but they try not to show it publically. Education made people hide their real face and but the mindset remains the same.
Well said Jo ! The casteist thinking is there in the mind but is not paraded publicly. We can see a resurgence of caste based names which had reduced in the 60s-80s. Though this symbolic thing cannot be taken to prove that we are getting more casteist, it does provide an indication.
>>We treat poor as second or third class citizens and do not value their dignity.
Again, this is rightly said. We treat others based on what they do and what position in the society they hold. If not that, then based on their caste. For ex a poor brahmin will get a better treatment than a poor dalit, though both are equally poor. One of the first things we do when a person is introduced to us is to compare his stature and ours to see how we should behave with them.
>>We have a thing or two to learn from the western countries like USA about how to respect people irrespective of their educational and financial background.
I agree and disagree. Because other countries are not the only source. We can always look to some great personalities of India like Gandhi and Vivekananda. Even otherwise there are numerous Hindu scriptures that repeat in different ways that all the human beings are the same, in fact all the living things are the same. The spark of divinity is there in each one of them (just as it is in me), though they may not know it themselves. So i should look at all living things with compassion (howsoever bad they treat me). Thats in fact one of the core principles of Hinduism along with other principles like dharma and karma. Its just that we are never taught these principles (which form the core) but learn all about other useless thoughts like castes etc (retrofitted to modern times wherein they might have actually made sense when they were originally founded). I strongly feel that proper education of Hindu religion would make the society a better place. For ex my parents never taught me as to what Hinduism actually means, what dharma was and what karma was. All i was taught was to pray before god and sing hymns, the entire meaning of which i did not understand. I had to learn them by myself.
February 17, 2007 at 2:27 am
why are you people talking so much about caste and all this nonsense. caste discrimination has been outlawed long time ago.The people who are interested in
caste is christian missionaries, and UPA govt so they can divide and rule over hindus.
Hindus are such idiots any way their house
is on fire they would never know it. The guy
who started this debate has not proved one
iota of evidence of hate on the site.
All he was doing to threaten like gestapo police he has connections with Rajamata sonya, when you U S citizens apply for a visa she will have words with you. Pity India , being ruled by a
person of questionable citizenship and her
son Rahul gandhi accused of gang rape.
This site is challengig it will not back out on its accusation and it has proof.
What is UPA govt do instead of]
ordering an investigation, and clear him
ban the website, leaving people to believe the website.
All they have to do investigate and prove that he was not at the place
that website says he was. No investigation
not govt, not press. what does that tell
you something fishy.
God save India. No Justice for common man.
that he was not at the place
February 17, 2007 at 5:51 am
@Jo and @Nita – Let me clarify what i was trying to say –
_Hindu_ word is not somethig which relates to todays so called Hindus. Yes we do have a philosophy – (Which is what all religions practice). And that philosophy is termed as a religion. But our philosophy’s correct name is _Sanatan_, rather than _Hindu_.
So in essence we are not Hindus we are Sanatans. Hindu as a word is wrongly associated with us. I hope this clarifies.
@Chacko – So after having such a lengthy debate whats yr thoughts and whats happening with the site in question.
February 17, 2007 at 5:52 am
Jo, I agree with you, that dalits who actually love their own traditions are treated very bad by the caste hindus and are forced to convert. What I am saying is that they should rather fight the system from within like Basavappa (12th century) narayana murthy (19th century)
____________
Also take note that caste is there is India, but the same is also present in other countries as well, in a worse condition. Many Western countries or Chinese etc cannot tolerate slight differences in colour. So when you compare that to indian communities — you will see we are far more tolerant and accomodating. The devil is in the degrees, I guess (we do not commit crusades, or jehads or holocaust due to ethnic/religious differences but absorb the minorities. Which is why we have the most diversity in terms of religion, language, ethnicity, culture and on and on.
Hinduism may have its weakness, but I still believe it is the greatest.
_________
One another note I have to thank the mutineers and the moderators of this blog for providing such a free and open atmosphere to discuss these controversial issues.
The conversion business is always covert and never if ever covered by the pseudo secular mainstream Indian media. The international press too could not care less, since it serves their interest (it’s makes the converted christian more western etc)
But death of Christian missionary Staines created an international uproar. But Hindus regularly die in religius violence in Bangladesh, Tripura, Kashmir and nobody bats an eye lid —- . So If we Hindus have to support our kind. let us not fool ourselves and think others will help out — we have to go and fight this fight ourselves, inspite of our own ‘Indian’ people like Chacko.
Chacko, even though christians are only 3% population they wield tremendous power due to
millions offunds pouring in from US churches to abet conversion programmes.
While dalits are the weakest of the lot, missionaries cast their net wide — convent schools, hospitals, maternity wards, computer schools –. It is a big business. They have to report success to their masters in the Us to get further funding.
When Hindus try to protect their religion… their is immediate cry of Christian persecution. Exactly what Chacko has done here.
Has he even once condenmed the actions the missionaires, no. Having known christians of kerala — they are very very active in this field conversion — since anywhere you go be it North East, Delhi, Gujarat etc — they have their social ‘businesses’ to further their religion.
In sum Christianaggression.org is doing a great job in exposing this nefarious activity.
I do hope, one day Hindus do not become museum pieces like the Egyptian civilization, Greek civilization –the hawaiians etc who were all trampled and obliterated by the highly aggressive, intolerant monotheistic traditions.
February 17, 2007 at 9:42 am
I thank Chacko for being brave enough to write this post and also brave enough to allow all comments. As one of the commentators pointed out, we need to discuss this issue and the more calmly we do it the better. I think this is a turning out to be a great place to discuss this burning issue. No one want to talk about it as it inflames people. But that is the very reason why we need to talk about it!
February 17, 2007 at 12:31 pm
[...] takes apart a group that claims that it is not anti-christianity but pointing out the obvious to them. Right. You name your site christianaggression.org and you [...]
February 17, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Nita,
From your comment, it seems to me that either I wrote it with bad grammar or you mis-understood me.
I said “The Caste system is not only the problem of Hinduism”
and I did not mean “The Caste system is not the only problem of Hinduism”.
What I was trying to say is Caste system is a problem with all Indians regardless of Hindus or Christians.
February 17, 2007 at 2:15 pm
>> Sab:
I agree and disagree. Because other countries are not the only source. We can always look to some great personalities of India like Gandhi and Vivekananda.
Of course we have such great personalities and reformers in India, but does the common man in India practice it? A few of us perhaps. When I said we have to learn such things from western countries, I meant most of their common people do that on ground. I have never been to USA, but I heard from my friends that a hotel waiter, a cabby, a sweeper – everybody’s treated with dignity. That is something we have to learn and grow.
Even Bible says, all are sons of God. I believe proper education of any religion would make the society a better place. But unfortunately, we mostly follow the bad things in the religion and that is what the relgious leaders want. And if a proper education of such happens and helps people to attain spirituality, we will tear down the temples, churches and mosques and will send out the priests, poojaris and mullahs. But have we attained a spiritual level like that? No. Kabir sang that God does not live in Temples, Churches and Mosques. Sri Narayana Guru placed a mirror in the temples that he founded to point out the stupidness of idol worship and that human beings have that “God” inside. Fr. Vadakkan challenged the church administrators and conducted the Holy Mass in a public ground (in Thrissur, Kerala) and worked for the poor farmers. We have had many reformers over time in all religions, but that hasn’t helped the majority of the believers.
>> Vishal: Thanks for the clarification.
Yes, you are right on the origin of the word Hindu, but it has become the name of the religion over time.
>> Venkat: When I compare the other western countries and Chinese (like you mentioned) I do not see we are far more tolerant. Infact, I find it more intolerant because Hinduism discriminate people not only on the basis of color, but labour, social status etc (chaathur varnyam). Please don’t think I am bashing Hinduism here. What I mean to say is that the intolerant side of Hinduism is the discrimination on the basis of caste, and with Christianity it is the intolerance towards other religions. I think its high time that the Church try to make the existing Christians to live as true Christians (in the way Jesus preached) instead of adding just numbers and Hindus try to get rid of the Caste based differences, not just on theory and public speeches but from their mindsets as well. Every religion has its intolerant side and we have to work on to perfect that.
I and most of the Christians here are concerned about the protestant missionary activities like you mentioned. No Catholic here like K. P. Yohannaan (a protestant missionary) and the guys like him get a lot of funds from the US of A. (At the same time, lets not forget the Godmen and women like Sai Baba or Matha Amruthanadamayi who also get huge sums of foreign funds from USA. Amrutha Matt was in the first place in a list of organizations of Kerala receiving funds from abroad). Pastors add more people. Believe me, when I say we Catholics are fed up with them because they try to convert ‘us’ as well, saying Catholics have not found Jesus Christ yet and follow the demonic practices. (They are mentioning that most of the Catholics live in sync with the native culture) and the sad part is some Hindus see this syncing with my culture as a ploy to convert other Hindus. (read my comments here: http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/02/05/what-evangelism-does/#comments). Also let me know when and where you have found that ‘Christians in Kerala are very very active in the field of conversion’. I live in Thrissur where there are many Christians and Hindus (and Muslims too) live together but haven’t found any as such.
February 17, 2007 at 6:01 pm
Jo
Overall I should say most of the lay Christians are nice people.
But the problems arises from the Church for which conversions are part and parcel and their mandate (called the great commission) to convert.
Most aggressive have been recent baptists outfits from the US. They even have caused great concern amongst the traditional churches.
You can go to christian conversion and type kerala and find out more.
February 17, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Jo
Jo
The site for this haindavekeralam which focuses on kerala. Chacko should probably focus on this too.
Christian missionaries kidnapping Hindu devotees
http://www.haindavakeralam.org/PageModule.aspx?
PageID=1611
2. A lot of Kerala Christians operate kindergartens, etc all over India. Since Kerala has high percentage of Christians… it is also a defacto HQ for christian missionairies, funding etc
The below is a must read
http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=ARTICLES&id=1112056735
Kerala Terrorist Camps of Another Kind
Posted March 28, 2005
Pradeep Nair
udayor@yahoo.co.in
Date: 17 Mar 2005
In Kerala places like Thiruvalla have innumerable agencies which pool in international church funds and send it to myriad organizations across India, from tribal movements in the nooks and corners to famous urban (secular, leftist) NGOs. The latter make the buffer as they give the legitimacy through media statements etc and the church outfits do the dirty work later.
Politically also they are powerful and can swing votes without being noticed. For example some of the Kerala organisations were behind the precipitation of tribal home land movements like Jharkand. Later the Hindu organisations cleverly took the winds out of their sails when the BJP itself demanded separate states. In the North-East they are having a free for all and could turn Nagaland in to a Christian state in no time. Men and money flew in from Kerala. It goes on unnoticed.
Almost all of these agencies are run by the Syrian Christian community of the state, Kerala also has a substantial population of Latin Catholics, converted by the Portugese earlier, and other converts. As the Portugese were the arch enemies of the British, these people did not prosper like the Syrians who were clever and converted every time a new European church came ashore. With the Portugese, Dutch, British.
They have all denominations existing in these countries and more. Just as they have Communists, Congressmen. Even BJP men, the new NDA outfit created by P C Thomas is an example.
While in the north many of them are good samaritans, thus ‘Father’ Tom Kochery, a fisheries sector crusader from Kerala, is known only as Tom Kochery in the North, the ‘Father’ is dropped. They have also penetrated the media at all places and can manipulate public opinion, it is all part of planned strategies. The leading Malayalam newspaper from the Syrian Christians, Malayala Manorama can make or unmake governments in Kerala. They toppled the Karunakaran government once with a fake story of espionage in the ISRO, got their man A. K. Antony in the chair. 60 to 70 percent of secular Malayalis read Manorama still!! It is the Kerala Bible. Now Kerala is leftist and secular under the Muslim League and Christian Kerala Congress in power.
They created the myth of ’savarna fascism’ upper caste oppression to neutralise the Nairs and the Brahmins. Later this spread all over India. The Syrian Christians were themselves promoting untouchability as history tells, but they keep silent on that and present conversion as the tool of liberation. Even now there are social hierarchies, not seen by the people, say, does a peon eat with a Managing Director in the westernized society. But the missionary tales still run. Naïve Hindus accept it.
February 17, 2007 at 8:55 pm
It was a healthy discussion going on here which has become a rare thing.
Jo,
I agree with you that there was some discrimination in India based on Caste system. But it is totally due to total misunderstanding of the Chatur Varna (not Caste) system. According to it what we call today as engineers and Doctors etc high profile jobs too come under Shudras which was responsible for the entire production in the state. Those who deal with the trade and commerce were Vysyas. Protection of the country and participating in wars ( In general a soldier) is considered as Kshatriya. Those who were in the research and development of the side of the life are Brahmins. But over a period they became birth based rather quality/work based. So the efforts are started now to correct it. Your eduucated friend seemed to miss the broader picture which many of us. There is an immense need to correct the entire system and we definitely need to respect the dignity of labour ( I strongly suspect this character we missed in the middle ages as many of the foriegn traveelers made it a point that they couldn’t see any slaves in India till middle ages… interestingly there were no unusual comments on the way of living those days from these foriegners)
I strongly feel every system starts with a good intention and over a period looses its relevence until unless it keeps changing with the times( ofcourse definitely not the core values). Hindu dharma/ Sanatana Dharma had that in plenty and as you said it will survive the attacks.
February 17, 2007 at 9:51 pm
we will teach christians a lessons just like we did with muslims in gujarat.
February 17, 2007 at 11:39 pm
Venkat
After reading your latest comment, it seems to me that your liberal tone is fading away.
A lot of Kerala Christians operate kindergartens, etc all over India. Since Kerala has high percentage of Christians… it is also a defacto HQ for christian missionairies, funding etc
This kind of generalization is no good, Venkat. By this generalization, you are defaming some good people who does good charity work as well.
And about this guy Pradip Nair who wrote in Christian Agression:
I had agreed that some protestant churches have been receiving funds, and also made clear the recieving foreign funds does take place by Hindu Godmen and Women in large scale as well. The list published in a pro-BJP (as widley known) bi-weekly India Today Malayalam edition sometimes back. From your recent selective accusations, I think you are just being selective and am not interested in continuing the debate that way because selective accusations can only get ugly.
They created the myth of ’savarna fascism’ upper caste oppression to neutralise the Nairs and the Brahmins.
They created the “myth”? Let me tell you what my friend who belong to the Cochin Royal Family told me once. He had a group of friends including Christian and Hindus. And Hindu friends included low-caste ones as well. He used to invite them to have lunch at his house and the Christian and Hindu high-caste friends were allowed to sit with him in the dining table, but the low-caste friend was sent to the kitchen and had to eat sitting in the floor. Seeing this my friend protested by fasting for 4 days and his mother for the sole reason of she could not see his son fasting more than 4 days, allowed this low-caste boy to sit with the rest. This is just a small example and can be called a “myth” if you would like to put it that way.
My Nair friend, who does not put the Nair tail with her name, once told me how her father’s family were landlords and people from the low-caste coming to their house during the Onam days etc to present the harvested fruits etc to her grandfather and were made to stay away from entering the house. This feudal, landlord, casteist mentality did exist. (Pradeep’s email ID is udayor. Did you know that Udayor means Landlord in Malayalam?)
The Nair influence even in the Malayalam showbiz is quite evident in Kerala. If you were following Kerala showbiz, you would have heard a great actor like Thilakan accused how he was denied chance after the Nair lobby worked out on their dirty plan. This Nair group is from Trivandrum where the Nair caste is still dominant and they are very much caste valued.
I can quote some stories that my Nair friends here in Thrissur told me (interestingly some Nair friends I have in Thrissur – and I have seen it only in Thrissur – do not attach their caste tail “Nair” with their names) about how the Nair community prospered financially in the early days. Ofcourse it has a relation with Kerla Brahmin community. It can hurt some Nair friends and thus this discussion can get ugly, so I am not quoting it here.
And regarding his statement that Malayala Manorama can “make or unmake governments in Kerala”, it doesn’t even have the value of a conspiracy theory and I can’t help but laughing at it. Even the people who have subscribed to it know their anti-communist, pro-Congress stand but they read because of their good layout and design and some page3 content mostly. Ask people who read MM here. If the Christians were following the directions of Malayala Manorama, how did CPM get to rule in Kerala?
I didn’t know A. K. Antony is a Christian extremist and he supports the Syrian Catholics because the whole Christians and Muslims were against him when he openly stated against the minority appeasement sometimes back. The right-wing Hindutva people were with him then and when did they get this new finding? Reason number 2 to laugh again.
I had continued with this debate hoping you belong to the sensible group. I hope you won’t prove me wrong about that.
>> Sunil:
I strongly feel every system starts with a good intention and over a period looses its relevence until unless it keeps changing with the times
Totally agree with you.
February 17, 2007 at 11:57 pm
Here is a site that reveals “another type of aggression”.
February 18, 2007 at 12:00 am
To those of you who say caste-based atrocities is a thing of past – Go through the following links. This is mostly the news reports from 2006, so just guess how much of it happens still and every year:
Justice for Dalits still a dream
Dalit woman raped
Dalit students ‘abused’ at AIIMS
When dalits hear voices
Dalit IIM students get less moolah
Link to loads of news articles about the atrocities on Dalits
Dalit woman beaten to death for picking fallen grain
Dalit woman raped by upper caste youths
Court bans entry into Orissa temple
February 18, 2007 at 4:44 am
Xtianity is undergoing a slow death in the west! No wonder these Xtain cultists want to convert poor Hindus. They are like metastatic cells, trying to invade some part of the body, while elsewhere some of the cells are wiped out by radiation therapy. They (the Xtians) have no balls to face up to Muslims in Europe. I predict in 30 years, European Xtiaity will be DEAD! Go to Oslo (Norway) and see the curent state of Churches. I was there last year, and the place is over-run with Muslims. Enough BS from converted Xtian morons like Chacko and Jo. If they are so up with Jesus myth (yes, Jesus story is fake BS), let them go to Europe and try to revive this vile cult. Leave India alone. As for us Hindus in USA, we have every right to condemn these Xtian scum. I pay $ 40 for cable TV, and for what? Many channels are on Xtian BS-for e.g., Day Star, TBN, 700 club, etc. Most of the time, these Xtian scum make fun of Hinduism on TV. Tit for tat, time to do the honbors to Xtians. The only thing they understand is a swift kick in the butt. Perhaps their almighty son of God Jesus will strike us down anytime- wimper…wimper…
Meanwhile: the current terrorism (World War III?) is a present to all people of the world, gratis- (you guessed it) 2 filthy cults from Middle East: Chrstianity and Islam. Mr. Bush is fighting for the Christians, and Al-Qaida for the Muslims.
February 18, 2007 at 6:08 am
Jo
We cannot get into details but a lot of stuff is not reported in the mainstream media. The fact is whereever Christians increase their numbers –that is followed by impoverishement of the natives … that includes Kerala — where for many a reasons today the Kerala Hindu is the poorest of the lot and has a host of social problems — suicide, debt, poverty, unemployment.
Check this out. Mainly Christian education ministers/CMs gave a lot of licenses for Christian schools and so they have cornered the education market and Hindus are as usual at the losing end. Nothing new. Where ever Christians have prospered, natives have suffered — Native Americans, Africa, South America Natives etc
While minorities run 3340 schools in the state, the entire Hindu jatis are in possession of just 194 schools. Muslim and Christian communities manage 223 arts and science colleges whereas all Hindu jatis together manage only 42 colleges (vide ‘Matrubhumi’ daily, September 28, 2002). Out of the 433 professional colleges, only 86 are government-owned, 89 are Hindu-managed while 258 are managed by the minorities (G.K. Suresh Babu, ‘Kesari Annual, 2004).
For full article see
Why Hindus Lag Behind in Kerala
http://www.esamskriti.com/html/inside.asp?cat=704&subcat=703&cname=kerala_hindus
February 18, 2007 at 6:58 am
@Jo and @Venkat.
There is no doubt that the cate system and religion has been exploited by politicians and kings in past to rule this country. It has left lot of wounds in everyone heart.
This problem of caste system discrimination and religion based discrimination is thriving day by day as politician like V.P.Singh (who started this) Lalu, Mulayam, Mayawati , Paswaan in North are using for their own benefits.
We need to fight these guys and make people more aware of how they are dividing the country on these lines.
As one of the Gentleman suggested about that we so called Brahmins might be Shudras according to Vedic system, bot according to birth, he is right, Its important we spread this knowledge of cate based system which was followed on KARMA rather than on BIRTH.
It is vital we need to evolve this practice otherwise we will divide and one day become irrelavent.
February 18, 2007 at 10:52 am
@Jo, [ About caste-Dalits-slavery ]
India is the country that had/has the least caste-based , clan-based status and discrepancies. In Pakistan to join the national cricket team, one must convert him as muslim, just like Shahid Afridi did turn from Christianity.
There is no country in Europe/North America/South America that did not have African blacks as slaves. (Even now most have racism fuming under).
There is no country in middle east / Top of Gulf where Indians/Africans were considered as infidels and slaves. In Sudan, Sheiks use d to herd the black children s as slaves after killing their parents.
The missionaries who were fed by Aborigins/new zealanders/red Indians inturn ruthlessely killed those sons of the soil by poisoing, communicating small pox and by fire arms.
In LNG Arts College, Ponneri 601204, TamilNadu I did my Math degree between 91-94. Several times Dalit students had beaten me so severly, just since I did not help them getting girls(did not work as bimp to introduce girls). If I in turn beat them, Dalits would file a case and put me behind the bar, claiming that i called them by name of their caste. In no other country( including all christian countries) in the world, the suppressed people are given opportunities by christians like Dalits got in India.
Finally Jo, I am not saying anything against your points or Dalits. But it is totally irrelevant to bring that in this page and deviating from the topic of main interest.
I have not written in most cohesive manner, however ff you read the above two times, you will be able to understand what I want to convey.
thanks for your time,
Jayakumar Rajagopal
February 18, 2007 at 12:44 pm
>> Jayakumar:
I am a little confused with the names after reading the last paragraph in your comment.
Are you the same person who commented in the name Venkat?
I had clearly mentioned my stand on the main topic of discussion. Please refer to comment no: 8 in this page. But then the comments section got too ugly and instead of admitting all religions have its own problems and setbacks, the commentators started solely accusing Christians. (I had admitted that forceful conversions or conversions by offering monetary benefits is no good for Christianity). They are not being aware that they making themselves fools by saying at one hand that Hinduism preaches tolerance and on the other hand showing such insecurity. If you are the person who commented earlier in the name of Venkat, you had mentioned in a comment that you think Hinduism is the greatest. I respect your view and I see that might be the reason you stay in Hinduism. But when a Christian says the same thing, it is commonly regarded as intolerance. Why such double standards?
That is why I had to put the comments here. I can dig deeply on any of the issues you mentioned here and can prove that all religions have the evil amount inside, but it would be a waste of time. And perhaps I will do that once I retire from work so that I can spend more time on this regard.
I have my replies to the education related issues you raised in the comment # 127, but I rest my case here, coz this can get on and on.
I hope one day people who are accusing others being “pseudo-secularists” would start an introspection and find who the real pseudo-secularists are and who the right-wingers are. Earlier, the better.
I rest my case.
February 18, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Jo
Let me assure you Jaya Kumar Rajagopal is not me. I was never educated in TN nor have been in middle east – to have that type of knowledge.
Although reading his article — I was stuck by his clarity and — which was better than mine. You can check carefully his writing style .. that is different from mine.
We should discuss the dalit issue. Let us get a different blog for that and no divert the Christianaggression topic.
WE Hindus are open to all discussions and I will not threaten to sue anybody and take them to court.
You see Freedom of thinking — is given prime importance in Hinduism. There is no — my way is the only right way.
February 18, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Jo
Here is my response to your query:
They are not being aware that they making themselves fools by saying at one hand that Hinduism preaches tolerance and on the other hand showing such insecurity. If you are the person who commented earlier in the name of Venkat, you had mentioned in a comment that you think Hinduism is the greatest. I respect your view and I see that might be the reason you stay in Hinduism. But when a Christian says the same thing, it is commonly regarded as intolerance. Why such double standards?
_________________________
Hinduism is the greatest because it believes in a live and live philosophy. It does not seek to annihilate any other religion for its betterment. And we have a good record to prove it.
Christians believe Christianity is the best –that is just based on dogma — The bible says Jesus is the one true son of god, and Christianity is the only true religion.
Here — one has to accept these revealed statements. You cannot question the Christian dogma.
Further when they say Christianity is the best, they seek to put down and destroy the non believer. I hope you can see the ’subtle’ difference.
Now about insecurity … Of course we hindus insecure. We should be tolerant. But not tolerant of the intolerant. The US was a very liberal country. You did not even have to show your id — to get into domestic flights at one time. But when Islamic terrorists took advantage of this liberal outlook, what did the US get — A september 11.
Since the the US has wisened up. It does not tolerate the intolerant anymore.
Similarly — yes we Hindus should always be liberal and secular and of tolerating spirit. But that does not mean should not be vigilant, always on our guard .. .there are intolerant religions out there ever ready and willing to convert and just waiting to destroy our religion. This has already happened in the north east.
So of course we are insecure in front of a extremely aggressive, violent belief system which seeks to impose its religion on us. We have all the reasons expose it and stop it in its tracks as going back to the topic –Christianaggression website is doing.
February 18, 2007 at 6:36 pm
Jo,
I just want to bring another case where so called dalits(I hate to use those words which are used to divide our country men.. but just to differentiate I am using it..) have misused the law in my very vicinity. One of my close friend has given money(from so called upper caste) to one of his friends(from so called lower caste) and just based on trust and with no interest too… Even after few years the guy who has taken the money didn’t return it back. So the first guy went to the second guy’s home and threatended him to return his money along with few more friends(common to both).. After two days the second guy went and filed a case in Police station that the first guy abused him by caste which he didn’t. I came to know this thru common friends of mine.
So there are people who misuse what has given to them in all communities. So the need of the hour is not blaming each other.. upper castes abusing the lower castes and lower castes abusing the uper castes.. bothways dont bring the equality. Equality comes thru a total change in the mindset. But unfortunately our education system(prepared on western methodology) is unable to provide a viable solution to this perinneal problem in our country.
I would appreciate everyone who participated in this debate and giving their valuable thoughts on the various issues. I am stopping here.
February 18, 2007 at 8:46 pm
“Jesus loves you; But others think you are an ass hole”
Leftists & Jo : My friends from Russia have ‘real time hands on experience’ with Leftists. I will beg them to write about it . But don’t disscuss that here.
thanks,
Jayakumar Rajagopal
February 18, 2007 at 11:39 pm
[...] of them even sought a ban on what he considered as a “hate website”.The other questioned the motives of a [...]
February 19, 2007 at 12:00 am
>> Venkat: I apologize that I have mistaken your identity. I agree Christianity from its origin onwards was after power. The church administration was mostly after the political power, the inquisitions and such things in the old days. I am not denying that.
But when Christians believe that Jesus is the only son of God, prove them wrong if you think so. Remember that Christian missionaries and Buddhists could make an influence among Dalits because of the caste based atoricities in the Hindu religion itself. Also the missionary contributions in the health and education sector is in a large scale. Perhaps you will say it was aimed at the conversion. But why weren’t the rich and landlord Hindus of that time did not try to educate the Dalits? Why didn’t they establish hospitals or clinics? (Please dont tel me they were not allowed to do so, becauseI must be born as lunatic to agree with that). Instead, they were denied education and social equality. Missionary contributions to India has helped this country a lot in the early days. Only recently the Godmen and women started making their contributions in this area. If the Dalits found such Christian actions as prosperous to them and if they converted just because those reasons, what is wrong with that?
You accused the educational institutions in Kerala were mostly by Christians. Have you ever thought why? You try to claim it is because Hindus were denied of establishing educational institutions and that is not true my friend. There were only Christian churches in the early days to establish schools, colleges and hospitals. Where were Hindus of that time? I am talking about the old days and you cant accuse of the then educational ministers of that time to give permission selectively to the Christian church. Because communists and Christian church were total rivals at that time. (Did you know that Communist government even fired at Ollur church, in Thrissur dirstrict because they were totally against religion?)
Also you say Hindus are meant to attend catechism in Christian schools. Do you know that students of Amrutha Institute of Management (run by Amruthanandamayi Mutt), say “Hari Om” instead of “Hello”? Christian students are also forced to say so. I can quote two of my colleagues for this case. (One Hindu and one Christian who studied in their institute). Also do you know children of Bharathiya Vidya Bhavan had to attend such Hindi Catechism classes where they taught Ramayana and Mahabharatha? (A friend of mine who studied in BVB mentioned this when I told him it is a pity that church run schools asks their Hindu students to attend Catechism students).
I see the good side of Christianity. It is my belief in Jesus Christ and the knowledge of Bible that helps me to criticize the church administration when they mostly stand and bend with the rich. I belive in the same Jesus Christ who once sent off the businessmen from Church and criticized the (Jewish) priesthood and who broke the rules of church to feed his disciples.
I thought I would not respond any further, but since some of your remarks might mis-led some liberals, I wanted to put it here.
>> Sunil: I understand how some of the Dalits misuse their positions. I always support that Dalit movement should not be in the “revenging mode” against high-caste, but to have “equal” social status. One should not be higher or lower than the other.
And just like you said you dont like to call them “Dalits” on the basis of caste-based differences, I do not like to call my friends “Hindus”, “Muslims” and “Christians”. But unfortunately, after I came to the blogging world, I had to use such differentiations in my comments. There is a lot of intolerance in the desi blogosphere.
>> Jayakumar Rajagopal: Great thinking and generalizations. “Christians and Chacko”, “Lefitsts and Jo”. I don’t need your certificate to prove that I am not a communist, but anytime I would gladly say I am more of a leftist than a so-called rightist and fundamentalist person.
Now I can understand why my notes about my interview with a woman activist provoked you to write about your Russian friends. I care very less about what’s going on in Russia or China because I care about my country than them. Evidently you have been intolerant about my references to RSS and Matha Amruthanadamayi Mutt even before reading that interview. I had written this in one of my comments to another post: those who pretend to be secular will show their real face at one time of the heating discussion. You have shown yours through this latest comment of yours.
Somebody has mentioned about US churches shutting down. It is not because they are fed up with Christianity but they are fed up with the very idea of “Religion” – All of them. Even the ISKCON could attract only a few during the Hippy period and there are many joining the aethists league. Aethism is a way of living for most of them. How many of the Indians are into aethism? The “intolerant” Christians had not sued any of the aethist or anti-Christ rockstars like Ozzy Osbourne, Slayer, Metallica or such. Suppose a music band in India portrays a Hindu God or Goddess in the way Slayer or Ozzy have portrayed Jesus Christ, would the “tolerant Hindu” spare them? (Read it with what happened to M. F. Hussain when he questioned the Hindu concept of seeing India as a Devi through his painting). The “intolerant” Christians in the USA have not raised a heck of an issue with them, my friend. And you can’t even imagine if the same thing happened here in India.
A final “I rest my case”.
February 19, 2007 at 1:59 am
Dear Jo,
Firstly, I thought my last post was totally stroke of sense of humor (at least non-sense of humor). But this is serious humble post:
You are not able to tolerate just your name appearing near the word ‘leftist’ in my post. If that witty generalization itself is intolerable to you such that you protest by saying I am certifying, I apologize.
Thanks for advising other people here to tolerate. You cared a lot about fine arts and MFHussain. You also mentioned that you don’t care about Russia/china but your mother nation India only.
I am a fool generalizer, but could you be kind enough in spoon feeding me this :
IF INDIA IS YOUR MOTHER NATION, HOW YOU TOLERATE MF HUSSAIN RIPPING HER NUDE?
I am not tolerent enough to see ripping of my mother.
February 19, 2007 at 8:16 am
Jo
I have nothing to say about what the Christians believe about their God. To each his own.
Hindus themselves have all kinds of lengends and they are comfortable with all the contradictions within them.
My problem with Christianity is when they think Hindus are heathens and fit to be converted just like they have done to aborigines, hawaiians, and countless other native traditions.
Jo, We should have a live and let live atmosphere.
This cannot happen if you believe that you have a god given mandate to convert and destroy the other person’s culture, traditions, religions and beliefs.
About Dalits — this great article just came out in the Hindustan Times
A time to heal
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1930245,00120001.htm
February 19, 2007 at 6:58 pm
I am liberal,i dont want to reveal my name bcoz it indicates my religion.
I think all the religions in the word create a particular group,hate other group,hatred is not a base of any religion
better stopping thinking about religion itself.
February 19, 2007 at 7:35 pm
@ post 134 Jay Whoever you r
I will sue all
Lolz
Call me ass but dont call me Chacko
Chacko dont know who Madanlal Dhingra was.
February 19, 2007 at 9:20 pm
It’s what Christians do. We can’t help but to want to share the Lord’s blessings and love with everyone we meet. Actually, as a Christian, it isn’t my duty to convert anyone. That is the work of the Holy Spirit. My duty is only to inform non-believers of God and His love. My duty is to “plant the seed”. God wants everyone to come to him on his own……But if you ask and I have answers then I will give them and then you will have to decide what you wish to believe. You can’t shove a religion down anyone’s throat……but you can open their eyes to a different view. It’s like why does everyone always pick on Christians? I think people pick on us and fear us, because they fear the truth, but that truth is Jesus Christ and He came to set you free from sin, from a life of slavery to sin and to restore you back to your creator. People are always scared of the truth. Jesus came and died for us all and the work of a Christian is to spread that word. It is true that we want to help save as many as possible, but we also know that the person will have to be convinced by God. Therefore, it’s only the Christian’s job to plant the bug in the ear of those around him/her and to help guide if the person comes around and during all of that, pray for that person.
Where was this other religious groups when these so called poor people needed them? Only Christians helped them therefore, they believed and converted. Now you are complaining about that?
February 19, 2007 at 10:25 pm
My bad, not that I believe they gave them money to convert, but gave them some hope in their miserable life. How is that going to make a Christian a bad person?
February 20, 2007 at 1:41 am
Freedom at Second Home:
Migrated Hindus from India constitutes 1 million or 0.4 per cent of US population now. They built around 1,000 Hindu temples throughout the US.
My Mother India:
India accounts for 40 per cent of the world’s poor and its fiscal deficit is one of the highest in the world. Almost half of Indian women are still illiterate; about 40 million primary school-age children are not in school.
The level of child malnutrition in India is among the highest in the world, higher even than some countries in sub-Saharan Africa, says the report ‘Extent of Chronic Hunger and Malnutrition in India’ by the UN’s special rapporteur on the right to food (2006)
According to the 2001 census, female literacy in India is 54.16 per cent against male literacy of 75.85 per cent. Most of the working women remain outside the organised sector: A mere 2.3 per cent women are administrators and managers, and 20.5 per cent professional and technical workers. Women to men ratio was feared to reach 20:80 by the year 2020 as female feutus killing is rampant.
India has been ranked as the worst performer by Transparency International on its global Bribe Payers Index 2006.
Hindu upper caste men, who constitute just eight per cent of the total population of India, hold over 70 per cent of the key posts across newsrooms in the country. The so-called twice-born Hindu castes dominate 85 per cent key posts despite constituting just 16 per cent of the total population, while the intermediary castes a represent meagre three per cent. (CSDS study, 2006)
According to the National Human Rights Commission, as on 30th June 2004, there were 3,32,112 prisoners in Indian jails out of which 2,39,146 were under trial prisoners. That’s more than 70 per cent.
“Census counted Hindus” numbered 827 million or 80.5 %. But only 15 per cent are belonging to the three upper castes. Many of these hindutva extremists come from this rich layer who represent about only 10 per cent of the total Indian population. The caste system virtually leaves lower caste Hindus and Dalits to an oppressed minority.
1.38 billion Muslims across India are severely under-represented in government employment, including PSUs. 80 per cent of the jobs in the new economy, in sectors such as software, biotechnology, and hotel management are controlled by The upper castes.
Aggression against whom?
According to Tahir Mahmoud, an Indian Muslim journalist, “The 2.3 per cent Christians in the Indian population cater to 20 per cent of all primary education in India, 10 per cent of all the literacy and community health care, 25 per cent of all existing care of destitutes and orphans, 30 per cent of all the handicapped, lepers and AIDS patients etc”.
Are you going to sue them?
But please don’t expect a Judicial Mutiny!
According to the National Crime Records Bureau, only 31 per cent criminal trials are completed in less than a year. Some take even more than 10 years. According to its study, Crime in India 2002, nearly 220,000 cases took more than 3 years to reach court, and about 25,600 exhausted 10 years before they were completed.
India’s subordinate courts have a backlog of over 22 million cases while the 21 high courts and the Supreme Court have 3.5 million and 32,000 pending cases (2006) There were 13 judges for every million people.
Finally, is it true that the father of nation, Mahathma Gandhi was assassinated by world’s largest terrorist organization?
http://sanghparivar.blogspot.com/2006/11/rss-worlds-largest-terrorist.html
February 20, 2007 at 8:56 am
I WRITE FULLY SHOWING MY IDENTITY, WHEN & WHERE I STUDIED. I WRITE TRUTH THERE FORE I AM. MY YAHOO ID IS kargil_jayAToohay.moc.
Please mail me in above id when someone blames Hinduism.
Jo : Unhappy exit. I will not be able to improve my knowledge unless you answer my question in my post 137.
I am not able to understand your logics and conclusions and presumptions. Please help me understanding your claims:
i) If I write something like Venkat, you will claim I and he are same; and that is absolutely not generalization.
ii)you represent yourself with red flag and white star with face of Che Guevera. But I write Jo & leftits you say it is blind generalization.
iii)If I write ‘Chako & Christian’ it is generalization too and Chako is not christian.
iv) How you conclude, I wrote things because i was irritated by your reference to RSS& Mata Amritananthamayi. I did not read them.
v) If Mata Amritananthamayi’s school accustom children to say ‘Hari Om’ it is cruel and offending, but MF Hussain sexy nude photo of Bharath Mata it is ‘fine art’.
vi) You can ask ‘why intolerant Chritians not sueing Osborne’, when the topic itself is started Chako sueing Hindu website. [ I would say there is some logic, had you asked Chako ‘why Chritians not sueing Osborne?’
vii) You can bring Dalit problem, and all irrelevant into this. you can’t appreciate your Nair friend’s fasting but can blame his upper caste parents discrepancy, you can mix anthing with anything, you can bring ozzy, metallica, plastica etc, but you don’t care what happens in foriegn.
…
…
and…
..
If you consider all above things are logical, you might be having a condition that is medically called ‘Pseudo logical utopia’ which one of commom miopia. It is caused by reading too many leftist articles. Communist & Leftist use see everything with the above miopia.
Even the Mopla riot where Muslims killed 30,000 Hindus ( with Hindu children & women exceeding 15,000) was considered by Communists as ‘10,000 poor muslims killing 30 rich Hindu land lords who kept them as slaves’. Such was the miopia caused by leftist.
I PARTICIPATED IN LEFTIST ACTIVITIES BETWEEN ‘99-’00, BUT LATER I UNDERSTOOD I WAS SICK AND TOOK TREATMENT. GOT SUCCESSFULLY CURED FROM THE DISEASE.
To Venkat & Hinduism supporters :
Don’t keep on answering others questions. As you answer these guys will shell you with questions. Rather ask them questions. Don’t answer if someone asks how can Drowpathi marry 5 men rather ask them how Virgin mary gave birth to Jesus.
I apologize had i hurted someone or offended someone. Pardon my English too. I studied in Tamil medium.
Jay
February 20, 2007 at 9:38 am
It may be true that most of the upper cast hold government positions. Do you know extacly why musilims are getting the government job?. Each muslim has more than 1 wife and more than 5 kids. Upper cast plan their life properly. Hindus 99% has one wife and two kids. They were able to concentrate on kids future and its life. But that is not the case with muslims. Similarly lot of chritians hold very good position in government jobs. If you want to through just words, you can do it and you don’t want to disclose it. Muslims kids are not much sent to schools, instead sent to madaras, were the education is about only community and not there welfare. This is not only in india but other parts of the world. India is small cake out this big world.
February 20, 2007 at 6:33 pm
Why every speaks about the contents of the site and not the news it is exposing to the world. Why there is nothing about the Chrisitians who convert. Every is ready to file a case in the site and why not on the people who convert people? All say it is showing hate. How many people have thought why is it and how to stop it? That’s why India is like this and I am sure India will not develop.
February 21, 2007 at 7:48 am
Christian aggression is for real. Hence the name of the site is apt.
This explains it
You are probably wondering what is the aggression caused by Christians in India. You may wonder how can a minority religion that is only 3% of the population cause aggression in a nation of over 1,000,000,000 people. In the press, the aggresion and “persecution” of Christians is often publicized. However it is never publicized how Christian Fundamentalists often incite this cycle of violence and aggression.
The root cause of Christian aggression in India is caused by the fact that Christianity believes that Jesus Christ is the only son of god. He is supposed to have been sent to earth to wash away the sins of the people, and so redeem them. Of course, this happens only to those who accept him as the only son of god. All the others do not get the benefit who do not have this shared belief will be burnt in hell for all eternity.
Christianity says that it has a unique path to salvation, and all the other paths are false. While there is supposed to be some modification in these views, the acceptance is that all the other paths may at most be second best. Therefore, it is better if people accept Christianity and not take a chance.
Christians believe that they have been commanded by Christ to go and “save” (convert) the people of this world. This is also supposed to give them special merit when it comes to the day of final judgment.
While there are many Christians who today do not believe in this exclusivity, there are a still large number of misguided Christians who still believe that in the exclusivity of Christianity and the concept of saving souls.
It is this misguided belief that causes breeds a hatred and intolerance for other religions. and from this hatred, these Christian Fundamentalists begin their aggression to convert. And often they will go to any means to convert even if it means violence.
This website seeks to educate the world about the atrocities that conversions bring and to bring this aggressive nature of Christianity to an end.
Source:
http://www.christianaggression.org/about_need.php
February 21, 2007 at 8:50 am
Dear Mr. Chacko: I have a question for you. I am a famous professor of psycho-analysis and Hinduism and movies and many other things at Emory University in Atlanta…
[Comment edited by admin for inappropriate content]
February 21, 2007 at 7:35 pm
I am from India. I have seen with my own eyes how blatantly conversions take place in my country.
It is openly done. Even in places like Tirupati, our holy place. There is perhaps no Hindu religious place in southern India which does not have a huge church, a large cross or other symbol of Christianity very close to the Hindu religious place. It all seems deliberate and a forceful way to establish your presence. And since in the south there is absolutely no resisitance to these things, christian fundamentalists are emboldend. I am not lying. Please visit the outskirts of Chennai to see what’s going on, not to speak of the interior regions of AP, Tamil Nadu, Kerala. Coming to northern India, that’s now the prime target. Even our Kumbh Mela is not spared by the missionaries. They just hate other religions. They want to follow the worse of what is their in the bible, i.e. spread Christianity, whichever way you can. Fraud, money, deceit it doesn’t matter. But sweep the world with christianity. It is these missionaries who are dividing families, spreading religious hatred and should be condemned.
February 22, 2007 at 7:33 am
I am desperate, Rev. Chacko! Please help!
See how virile your priests are: fathering dozens of babies! Wow!
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/21/southern.baptist.ap/index.html
Pregnant with her minister’s baby
“”I believe kids are not safe in Southern Baptist churches,” said Brown, who runs a Web site called the Voice to Stop Baptist Predators.
One SNAP member, Debbie Vasquez, said she was raped by a Southern Baptist minister in Texas when she was 15 years old.”
“Now 48, Vasquez filed a lawsuit last year against the pastor, the Rev. Dale “Dickie” Amyx and his current church, Bolivar Baptist in Sanger, Texas, about 45 miles north of Dallas. She claims the church knew, or should have known, about Amyx’s past.
Vasquez says she was raped when Amyx was a minister at the now-defunct Calvary Baptist Church in Lewisville, another town north of Dallas.
When she became pregnant with Amyx’s child at age 18, church leaders forced her to go before the congregation and ask forgiveness as an unwed mother. But the congregation was never told it was Amyx’s baby. ”
“Amyx acknowledged in court documents that he had a sexual relationship with Vasquez and was the father of her child. Texas court records also show that Amyx was convicted in 1967 for giving beer to a minor.”
Wow, Rev. Chacko!
February 22, 2007 at 5:04 pm
India is a Hindu Country. Who is denying that fact? Even Maulana Mulayam Singh Yadav agreed upon it.
Former UP congress State president , Mr. Jagdambika Pal says UP government machinery spent Rs 800 crore for organizing the conclave of VHP.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5922_1928032,0015002500030003.htm
February 22, 2007 at 5:57 pm
I read all the comments. I am a keralite, Born in Nair community, born and studied in Kerala. I remember the phamphlets and small books used to get distributed in our village(25 years back) by “Christians”. I was never told by my parents that it belongs to some other religion so don’t read it etc. At least once in a year, there used to be a free bible distribution in my Govt School. None of the teachers or Head of the school used to object that. We children used to be very happy to get those to make Paper Planes with it. In my area there were some Latin Catholics with their first name Christian and second a hindu name. We all used to play together and we used to participate in each other’s festivals. But now, off late they/we stopped doing so. The division widened, Christians started naming the Bus Stops and Roads to some Christian names. Some nostalgic Nairs and others started objecting it. Even in Bangalore, many streets and roads “Mariamman Palayam” become “Marianna Palaya”…and so on. I sympathise with so called Christians and Muslims in their effort to make others to their religion. Assume all in the world become Christians…what next? Disintegration? internal fight and obvious break up? Dear friends, Nothing in this world or in nether world is permanent. This very “marianna palaya” will surely become “Moron Palaya” also. Only one thing I know, “CHRIST” has gone for ever from this world when he saw the lavish life style of “Pope” and ranks below. When Christ lived for and with poor, our Kardinals and Priests in the name of him, sitting at rich business man’s house drinking wine and eating chicken to think about their next plan to capture more wealth.I respect Nuns as they are more sincere than the socalled Christain priests.
In my childhood, Christ was alive. Now he committed suicide. Only church and the organisation exists.
If India was the place of birth of all civilisations (Christ came and studied in India and Tibet)philosophies and Buddhism kind of superb enquiry to end misery of the whole human kind (Christ copied a part of it).He mentioned “Father” as not actually “God” but “Buddha”. It will have that special beings like “Gandhiji” born time to time. Christians can only become the followers of Christ. But, you can see many actual christs here. I sympathise Christ for not even having one right follower.Even the structure of catholic organisation is a weired copying of “Buddhist Monastry”.
Do you know how many times the bible has been re-written? I know at least 10 versions of the same.
Some history of india based on notes of Chinese and British travellers
Ref: wikipedia.org. “India had a rich culture which consisted of “Gurukulam” at each and every village where education was free and castless(Buddhist Era) (Before Sri Sankara and Mughal period)”
“The place like Nalanda, Takshshila had students from all over the world to study philosophy, mimamsa, politics, medicine etc”
The Brahmanism also did a lot of undoing. But, India has gone to such darkness in Mughal (about 350 years) and then British rule (about 250 years). By including all India will again come up as an example to the world. Which nation can be proud of a Prime Minister from Sikh religion a President from Muslim religion when the majority is Hindu? Dear outsiders..whether it is Vattikkan or Macca, India got its way. We don’t require you. Here at least people are aware about the atrocities and working against it. Who is there to question in Vattikkan or Islamists countries? Has anybody got guts to do that?
February 22, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Rajeev G & others : Very nice, gentle thought. Thanks for writing. I have more examples, but what is the point in writing ? we are supposed to ask quesitons, because the other religion people are trained not to use their brain.
Jo : I am waiting for your answers. Please answer my questions. Or please agree that your thoughts are half-boiled and pseudo logical and leave leftism.
Christians distribute bible in Govt schools, Rly stns. Do Hindus do it ? — nice quesiton Rajeev.
February 22, 2007 at 8:50 pm
See, the language in which this passage is written itself shows how much you hate the so called “losers”. You can’t fight hatred with hatred; it is as simple as that.
The fact is that some Christian missionaries are involved in inhuman activities almost everywhere in the world. There has been proven records, to the extent that venerated pope accepted child molestation charges by some of his people. If people in India or people from India, are writing something against the aggression and the practices of the Christian missionaries, we should take this as a “constructive feedback”.
Don’t give the Hindus a chance to complain. The fact remains that 99% of the converts to your religion in India, belong to people below poverty line. That will put substance in the picture.
February 22, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Chacko is still dodging the basic question:”WHAT are the hate statements at the site christianaggression.org”?
Telling the truth is not “spreading hate”. It is “education”.
Chacko describes himself as a “CRUSADER”. Is this not “hate speech”?? Do you know how many women and children, and men, were hacked, pierced and/or burned to death by “Crusaders”? Do you think people of other religions are thrilled to be remined of such a hate term as “Crusader”, Chacko?
Good people don’t use hate terms like “Crusader”. Even George Bush had to quit using it in public.
See http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_cru1.htm
“On 1095-NOV-27, the Pope called on Europeans to go on a crusade to liberate Jerusalem from its Muslim rulers. “The first and second wave of Crusaders murdered, raped and plundered their way up the Rhine and down the Danube as they headed for Jerusalem. “Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or die!” 12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed as the first Crusade passed through. Some Jewish writers refer to these events as the “first holocaust.” Once the army reached Jerusalem and broke through the city walls, they slaughtered all the inhabitants that they could find (men, women, children, newborns). After locating about 6,000 Jews holed up in the synagogue, they set the building on fire; the Jews were burned alive. The Crusaders found that about 30,000 Muslims had fled to the al Aqsa Mosque. The Muslim were also slaughtered without mercy.
These mass killings were repeated during each of the 8 additional crusades until the final, 9th, crusade in 1272 CE… mong many Jews and Muslims, the term crusade evokes visions of genocide, mass murder, and mass extermination of innocent people.”
Now “crusade” is a “term, frequently used to refer to mass rallies and campaigns to win converts – as in the Billy Graham Crusades.”
Now you have left CLEAR PROOF of what you are: a CONVERSIONIST HATE-MONGER – and of your own hate speech on the internet, and I have downloaded it, as I am sure, have many others and the GOOGLE archives.
So yes, PLEASE, go ahead and file your lawsuit. In America. And enjoy the result.
Aren’t you going to sue ttp://www.crusadewatch.org
“Conversion Watch – Crusage Watch-Evangelism Watch” as well? THEY tell the truth about your kind too, so you must hate them as well??
Oh! here’s another Hate site to sue, Holy CRUSADER Chacko dear:
http://skeptically.org/enlightenment/id7.html
“The First Crusade was launched in 1095 with the battle cry “Deus Vult” … thousands of whom were dragged from their homes or hiding places and hacked to death or burned alive. Then the religious legions plundered their way 2,000 miles to Jerusalem, where they killed virtually every inhabitant, “purifying” the symbolic city. Cleric Raymond of Aguilers wrote: “In the temple of Solomon, one rode in blood up to the knees and even to the horses’ bridles, by the just and marvelous judgment of God.”
Or.. were you just bluffing all along, like the hate-spreading, baby-buggering (not hate, Chacko, FACT) preachers of your so-called “religion”?
Yeshu Christu is supposed to have said: “Forgive them, for they Know Not”.
What’s YOUR excuse, Chacko? Ignorance?
February 22, 2007 at 10:29 pm
Hindu siblings learn spellings in Bihar madarsa
By Dipak Mishra, Times of India Tuesday
12 September 2000
PATNA: On a recent visit to the backwaters of Bihar, a maulana (cleric) from UP found that a madarsa in Gopalganj district had a lesson or two to teach on communal amity. He found two Hindu boys, aged three and five, attired in a topi, (cap) reading Urdu prescribed for Muslim students. The Singh siblings are not the only ones. About 70 children belonging to the Hindu community at present study in the madarsa, which has a total strength of about 400.
“When he learnt their names, he wanted to meet me,” exults the siblings’ grandfather Vidya Bhusan Singh. The former lawmaker has been sending his two grandsons to the local madarsa instead of the village primary school in Gopalganj district for a long time now.
Initially, there was a hue and cry in the Meera Tola-Khetapur village’s Rajput community, to which he belong. “We had to face relentless taunts from the villagers. They even said we were converting to Islam,” Singh, who is the general secretary of the state unit of the Samajwadi Party, told The Times of India.
But that was then. Today, Singh’s experiment has borne fruit and there has been a sea change in the attitude of the villagers. “Today, about 70 children belonging to the Hindu community study in the same madarsa which has a total strength of about 400. The head maulana did not object to Hindu children studying in the madarsa,” he said.
But why did he send his grandsons to the madarsa for primary education? Only because the village government primary school was defunct, Singh pointed out. “The primary school has two teachers. Each draws a salary of over Rs 10,000 per month. But the two are always absent. On the other hand, the madarsa is efficiently run.”
Singh does not think that sending his grandsons to the madarsa intrudes on his religion. “On the contrary, they will have a better perception of their own and other’s religion,” he stressed pointing out that the madarsa in his village must be the only one in the state in which so many Hindu children study.
Interestingly, this has been a learning experience for the grandfather too. “I have tried to learn the Urdu script from my grandsons since I was never able to learn the language,” he said.
February 23, 2007 at 10:34 am
Dear Jayakumar
Please let me write little bit more before I leave this discussion to my Christian and Muslim brothers.
Some body talked about Christain Missionary’s Education in India. The fact is they have taught only the elite class. Many middle class people never opted Convent Education because it used to be costly and unaffordable. I never got a chance to study in convent school. I think now that as my luck. We used to call the convent children as “Whitelagons” (A hen, just made for Egg and flesh)used to get carried in Vans. I support left in that matter for imparting some education to poor. Christian Missionary can never claim of educating the poor in India. They took money from the rich class. Spent for food in lower class and got the conversion. Since “Catholism” (I mean british rule) made India sick and pushed to a mere poor third world country. They ruined India’s cottage industries. Pushed to buy things came out of so called “Industrial Revolution” of the europe.
They supported the elites(Brahmins)just below them to rule India. They ruined all our self confidence and tried to make us believe that “White” skin is better than “Grey Matter”.
Christians of India never supported Indian Independent movement(There are somany proofs to support this) These are all certain facts. But, those christians have died. This is a new era, let us forget the past, we are going ahead with protecting what we had, and will surely accommodate all except “traitors”. We know how to take care of Indians including the so called Dalits and brahmins. After all it is just a sibling rivalry. Please do not bring and tell what peace is to us. None of the Abrahamic religion ever could explain the science and mind matter relation as “Buddhism” did. Do not show that converting them to Christianity is the only way. And also, do not think that he will continue as a christian for ever. I am sure even Chacko & others will throw away their half cooked meal one day. Because only wholesome got solace. Half filled pot will only make noise. So, it is up to my Christian and Muslim friends whether you want to adopt Indian culture (Hindus, Buddhists, Jains and Sikhs) or some thing which can never be part of this land’s culture. But, can still continue with obselete ideologies. You all got protection through the constitution made by Great People like Ambedkar. You are in India. Don’t worry.
I don’t hate Christians or Muslims. But, at least erace those hating part from your religious books and be a Hindu or Buddhist and adopt to change. India gave protection to Dalai Lama when we know that we are going to make China furious. Because for us culture in important.
I only sympathise out of compassion. Let your evolution happen faster. I pray. I am not ending here with a question to anybody. Because still there are people to say that it is our weakness. Just to make us militant and violent as them. Sorry. WE ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM REST OF THE WORLD.
February 23, 2007 at 5:46 pm
59 years after Independence from Christian British, We are under the rule of your holiness, PunditJis.
Now, look at the official figures of aggression against us from your holiness Brahmins:
Every hour two Dalits were assaulted; every day three Dalit women raped, two Dalits murdered, and two Dalit homes torched.
Yet the actual reality of crimes against Dalits is much worse than these numbers suggest. Amnesty estimated that only about 5 percent of attacks are registered.
http://kherlanji.blogspot.com/
Blame it on Christians, Moslems, and Sikhs.
Dalit dilemma: Education rises, not prosperity
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Dalits_education_rise_not_prosperity/articleshow/738643.cms
Adivasis: A Cultural Cooption
http://www.countercurrents.org/comm-puniyani060406.htm
February 24, 2007 at 12:34 am
[Comment deleted because of abusive language and inappropriate content]
February 24, 2007 at 1:45 am
Oh, My Aryan Videshi BaaBu, I understand your saffron inhaled feeling towards Dalits, or aborigines of this country.
Swaho Sahoo, Chandigarh NewsLine, Express India , Sunday , February 04, 2007 do have a report for you.
some extracts :
North Indian households may be poised for a major lifestyle change in terms of food habit. In a recent study conducted by the gastroenterology department of PGI, one in every 122 children in Chandigarh is prone to celiac disease, commonly referred to as wheat allergy.
“Celiac disease is a genetically transmitted disease and North Indians share the same genes as Europeans,” said Dr Ajit Sood, HOD, Gastroenterology at DMC. “Most of the North Indian population are descendants of Europeans who invaded the country,” Dr Sood added, on the sidelines of a talk on the geographical variations of the disease, at the Gastro CME in PGI.
http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=220667
February 24, 2007 at 2:04 am
Chacko says –
“We don’t need people who have given up their Indian citizenships and taken an oath to protect and serve another constitution how to run our country. We don’t need these people/websites spreading false information about minorities in our country.”
How do you know that they all are American Citizens of Indian origin?
Maybe they are green card holders like me, who retain their Indian citizenship.
OR
Maybe they are not Indian at all?
Are you saying that only Indian citizens have the right to critize Indian issues?
Then by extension, you should have written in an open forum, your threat to obtain a “non bailable warrant” for the pope, who uttered a more remark, which has inherently more potential to create communal disharmony.
OR
What happens to people like you, If India begins issuing dual citizenship to Indians overseas….you will have to shut up..no?
February 24, 2007 at 9:43 am
CONCLUSIONS FROM THE THREAD :
1) Christians are like walls. However smart and straight Hindu’s answer them, they will not agree or change. They will ask some irrelevant stupid questions.
2) Most of the Dalits will bash Hindu’s only, what ever is the profit they got. Where as 100% of Dalits in pakistan has no quota, 70% are slaves, 96% live under extreme poverty. In India they are given lot of opportunity.
But they will praise Islam, praise christianity which did nothing for them except conversion. They will do all these despite knowing Ambedkar – is a brahmin name that was adopted by Dr.Bheemarao saheb as a note of thanks to his Bramin teacher Ambedkar.
3) Hindu’s will answer to all stupid questions. Christians will repeat questions as if a great new thought. Leftist will create their own blogs and without shame will give the link as if external link written by some neutral agency; they will join with christians without knowing what they are doing.
4) Manoj is the only person with sense of humor. Jayakumar is the only person with non-sense of humor.
Jesus, forgive all christians.. they don’t care about you but about conversion..
February 24, 2007 at 11:13 am
Dear Pickle for life,
I thought of not commenting about anything in this thread. Now. I know I am telling something which is actually not relevant to this thread. But, I wanted to say sorry for whatever our ancestors have done to your ancestors. And some stray incidents still here and there by so called upper cast. Changing a religion after studying that is the right way. Not going to that just because you hate some people here or you get some money or food there. Free food will be there only for a while. After that, they will ask you to work for your earning. That time you will understand none of the religion offers “FREE FOOD”.
I am born in Hindu Religion. I can never support the damages done by ” Brahminism”. Please look at the gods in Hindu Religion. No one is a Brahmin. “Brahmin” is and was there always in all cultures. The knowledgeable, unites for their greed and all Police and Army are to protect the money of the so called Brahmins. The name changes in different places. The Dalits are also there everywhere. The name differs and the style differs.
I do not believe in Hindu Religion and its gods. But, I like the overall knowledge which got gathered under that culture. I am more supportive of Buddhism and do not believe in a creator and protector. If some people did something, doesn’t mean, you lost all your ways. India also has undergone so many years of attacks, poverty, floods etc. Human kind survived and protected its wealth by some “Wise”. If your father got beaten by someone else’s father should not make you to fight with the son of the father who has beaten. You people should have the ability to think independently. Otherwise this mental slavery and hatred will continue for no reason. That is why I do not hate Christians, Muslims or Brahmins. Those who has done the damage has gone. In this new age, we all have to sit together and sort out issues left by our ancestors. So many people given blood for independence, so many faught for inequality. We should not make their effort go futile rather, we should glorify. I want all the Dalits to unite against atrocities against their community or non-community. All the people should be alert in a democratic set-up to protect their interest. But, at the same time all should be aware about their duty to preserve and proceed to progress and leave a hateless society for our coming generation. If we do not work for that now, our coming generation will never forgive us. That is the reason, I went a little overboard to tell Christians and Muslims to remove their hate lines from their religious books. It is not there in Buddhist, Jainist books and Hindu scriputres got it all it is as equvillent as non-existent. Since there is no common body for that, nobody can do any alteration in that. Otherwise also, Hindu Culture was a Laboratory of all experiments and it is a vast library. It got Theism, Polytheism, Aetheism and all. I am lucky to be born in this great country, in Hindu culture and lucky to learn and understand Buddhism.
February 25, 2007 at 10:19 am
Dear Jayakumar with a ‘non-sense’ of humour -whatever that means – maybe you forgot to mention that those are your ‘personal conclusions’ from the thread.
February 25, 2007 at 10:44 am
Clerical Exams for ..
[Moderated : Jokes generalising and insulting communities are not encouraged in Mutiny]
February 25, 2007 at 12:53 pm
[...] takes some time off from the heated discussion on Mutiny to better understand the Hindu caste system and states how he is a working Shudra though he is born [...]
February 25, 2007 at 5:40 pm
That’s bad, I guess.
February 26, 2007 at 7:02 am
This is a neat article which is relevant to our discussion here.
A call to converted Christians-”Abandon all illusions once for all”
2/25/2007 6:37:01 AM HK Correspondent
Throughout history, evangelical missionaries have enticed Innocent, poor people in India by fraud, deception, coercion and tricks to convert and indoctrinate them with illusion and fantasies of economic prosperity.
This false fantasy and jugglery was used to deprive people of Asia, Africa and South America. The missionaries became land owners and converted became deprived, poor and alienated from their own culture. They were abandoned and left to suffer. The fake prosperity missionaries have promised never happened.
In the U.S, converted blacks are deprived, poor and discriminated. In the South converted people are subjected to humiliation, deprivation and live in utter poverty. Missionaries are never to be seen with any services.
In India, Christian Churches are the richest rural and urban land owners. IT HAS ONLY ONE purpose-to maintain its control and political power. The Church do not apply a policy of benevolence to the converted people. They are cleared of their traditional, spiritual culture and provided them a bible and empty, bogus promises of paradise. The Bishops live in extremely lavish, lustful and corrupt life.
In summary, Churchianity’s hunger for dictatorial power, cruelty, and fear for spirituality, truthfulness, compassion and tolerance are creating social problems not only for the converted Christians, but also for the entire nation. Churchianity has no ethical concepts or moral principles. They produce and distribute bible, hatred, falsehood, empty promise and fantasy. It is time for converted Christians to extricate themselves from the evil, free themselves from the Christian shackles, and abandon all illusions once for all.
http://www.haindavakeralam.org/PageModule.aspx?PageID=3108&SKIN=C
February 26, 2007 at 11:17 am
It all happens in India! We have a wonderful judicial system which is fair to few.
35 accused in Khairlanji Dalit killings discharged
A special court hearing the case of the Dalit killings in Khairlanji village of Bhandara district on Thursday discharged 35 of the accused.
On February 12, the CBI, while filing a supplementary chargesheet against some of the accused under Sections 120B and 140 of the IPC, had urged the judicialmagistrate first class, Mohadi, P Y Ladekar, to discharge 35 of the 46 persons arrested in connection with the killing of four members of the Bhotmange family—Surekha, her daughter Priyanka, sons Sudhir andVishal—by amob on September 28 last year.
Among those arrested, 35 accused—all of whom were present in the court—were granted bail subsequent to completion of 90 days of magisterial custody remand, while the remaining 11 were remanded to judicial custody.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Mumbai/35_accused_in_Khairlanji_Dalit_killings_discharged/articleshow/1662575.cms
High court dismisses case against Bal Thackeray
HC on Friday dismissed its appeal against the discharge of Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray in a case relating to publication of inflammatory articles during the 1992-1993 Mumbai riots.
Justice J H Bhatia upheld the metropolitan court’s order closing the case against Thackeray on account of the delay in filing the charge sheet.
The judge threw out the case saying it was time barred. He further added that there was no explanation for the seven-year delay in filing the charge sheet.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/Cities/Mumbai/High_court_dismisses_case_against_Thackeray_Sr/articleshow/1670361.cms
Court bans entry into Orissa temple
Dalits in Orissa are not allowed to enter and worship in many Hindu temples by the upper castes.
http://www.rxpgnews.com/india/Court-bans-entry-into-Orissa-temple_5988.shtml
February 26, 2007 at 9:15 pm
” I went a little overboard to tell Christians and Muslims to remove their hate lines from their religious books.”
Rajeev, can you tell me where in the Bible it says to hate your religion or any religion? Please help me to understand what you are trying to say here.
February 27, 2007 at 3:56 am
Lisa Mathews and the like- Stop the BS. Both the Quron and the Bible are the 2 vile man-made documents, and all you have to do is to look at the glorious history of Xtainity, from crusades to how they wiped out central and south American cultures. The Portuguese bastards raped Hindus and forced many into submission, and this is documented well. Bible has nothing to offer to me or any human on this planet. Bible-based idiots continue to discriminate Jews, homosexuals and non-Xtians in USA to this day.
If you arew looking for Bible passages that are anti-humanity, here are some (courtesy, evilbible.com).
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1). Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5
2). Ignorance is bliss. Christians should not practice free inquiry nor socialize with non Christians:
Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10
Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17
Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8
3). Judge other religions for not following Christ:
Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22
Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19
The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7
Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12
False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9
4). Here are my two personal favorites:
Everyone will have to worship Jesus — whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10
A Christian can not be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33
February 27, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Dear Lisa,
If Rajendra’s reply is not sufficient, I can provide more. Why to waste time? Reading bible with one hand and pushing the button which sends missiles to Afghanistan and Iraq by George Bush is a follower of Christianity. Does Pope got courage to oust him from that religion or at least say that he is not a Christain, if Christianity is for peace? (Definitely not a follower of Christ. Because he told to love the neighbour)is the best example. The people got killed in WTC attack is about 5000. Bush and his army, officially killed almost 6000 by now(unofficial who knows?)
Pickle for life, as I told you, cannot judge Hinduism from few recent incidents or from Brahminism. The main Hindu scriptures are made and taught by non-brahmins. Brahmins learned it later and then they with their cunningness stopped others learning it as an easier way to rule others. Brahmins kept priesthood as hereditary. They took all precaution to rule over the people mentally and physically. This is happening in Christianity now. It happened every where. That doesn’t mean one who taught and wrote those scriptures are bad, the very principle is bad etc. It depends on your capacity to understand beyond love and hatred earned out of certain incidents of your life. If you want to really understand the depth of those studies. I request you to look with a binocular beyond the age of Vedas, then come and see to this extend. I am not saying not to become a Christian. Not to become a Muslim but understand the doctrine and then convert. But, even after converting, the very hatred doesn’t go from your mind means what? Think deeply. Religion or some incidents are not the issue….it is your head. You can change that with your thinking and love those who hates you (Not foolish love) but, love with compassion to understand the way they have been programmed to hate you like you do it to them now. Try to work to reduce your hatred first than running to a nearby church with the same head.
Unite to protect. I don’t think changing religion to escape from your “Head” is the solution. Whether you change to Buddhism or Christianity is not going to bring peace until you work on your own hatred in your mind. If you want to add fuel to that, media will provide enough of that. Think not to become a victim of media nor this blog.
With a lot of compassion,
Rajeev
February 27, 2007 at 5:01 pm
[...] Media , Nation , A Mutineer speaks , India , Culture , Religion , Politics , Sex , Blogging My post on ChristianAggression.org created a lot of noise. There were some relevant voices but most were from people who were looking [...]
February 27, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Mr.Chacko,
Who is not insecure in this world? The so called confidence/over confidence you show of sueing for something itself is showing your insecurity. Whoever thinks they have something to protect is insecure. I frankly do not believe that you are that matured to understand what I say. Now. Anyway, wish you a proper evolution to understand at least later.
With a lot of compassion,
Rajeev
February 27, 2007 at 5:32 pm
Rajeev, thank you for your compassion. For everything else, “talk to the hand”.
February 27, 2007 at 10:03 pm
I may have missed it but what hateful evil acts have Christian’s been doing, specifically. I saw above in a comment a lot of references to scriptures in the Old Testament in the Bible. In understanding Christianity, which I think is important as you talk about Christians, the New Testament is a critical component. Without the New Testament, there is no Christianity. I’ll provide some verses of the God I have come to understand through Jesus Christ…..
11This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. 13Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you. 14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.
16This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 17If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? 18Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 19This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence 20whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.
21Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. 23And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. 1 John 3:11-24
Love
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
1 Corinthians 13
So, basically, I read the first half of the 175 comments. I’m still not understanding the full agression mentioned. But, as a Christian……if another Christian anywhere on this earth is acting in hate, then the blessing of the God of the universe is not on them. God has chosen to work through love.
Each one of you have been designed uniquely by a creator who anticipates your life, a relationship with you, is excited about you. You have been created for a reason. It is my prayer that you come to find it, discover it, live it, and experience the freedom in it.
You are, afterall, a treasure!
Just call me a sis
February 28, 2007 at 10:19 am
Dear Sister,
As I told, there are good things and bad things written in all “Old Books”. It is our wisdom which helps us to find out what leads to peace and prosperity, what leads to destruction. Of course Christ is the first person talked to a totally uncivilized crowd around him about the importance of “Love”. That is the reason they couldn’t understand it in its basics and they killed him. Then came out all stories, his preachings etc and he become the son of god. It is nothing but our failure to understand the elevation of that very human being. We called him that “Enlightened Consciousness” as god or son of god or prophet. The bible is not directly written by him. It got a lot of influence of the people and their mentality of that time. I am not questioning Christ and his teachings derived out of bible. But, the bible is not fully revealing probably his heightened level of achievement, rather it got many contradictory statements, it got revised many times etc. The issue raised by Chacko is suing people who talks bad about his religion. Why he is not getting angry when somebody speaks bad about other religion? Because Chacko thinks he got something to protect. Christ thought there is nothing to be protected so he was courageous and asked to forgive those whoever does evil. Chacko cannot do that, since he didn’t understand Christ like his own leaders and priests. Hope you understood my reasoning. Chacko will even make missiles, point to others head and say he will shoot on others and will ask why are you feeling insecured???? I am sorry to say, I cannot consider George Bush and Chacko are followers of Christ. Since “Pope” didn’t say anything about those atrocities, I cannot consider Pope also as a follower of “Christ”. He is there just to protect the interest of the rich, insecure people of America and Europe.
They may be members of “Christianity” and so called organisation. Christians and their followers are walking just opposite of Christ walked. I do not hate Christians or Chacko for what they do. I know they are not able to escape from their greed for power, greed for ensuring the protection of their materialistic wealth. But I am surprised by the fact that they are not even aware that this same liking for materialistic achievements, insecurity to protect what they think as dear and near, is there with everybody immaterial of their religion. (Of course with very few exception). Chacko asked me to talk to my hand. I know I am writing all this mails to a stone. Probably stone may turn out to be wise.
But, if my writing helps to make them understand, or at least think a while, my effort is not a waste. But, instead, if they get another person to hate, I failed. Dear sister, do not give much importance to the so called holybooks written by not so holy people. Whether it is Bible, Qran, Vedas or Suttas. Those are all good to get some ideas about wisdom. But, I will not say all are 100% foolproof path to spiritual elevation. You have to adopt your method as per your “Conditioning” to unclutter your mind. Throwing, bashing, threatening etc is childish and immature. Those people have to evolve a lot.
With a lot of compassion,
Rajeev
February 28, 2007 at 9:32 pm
I skipped a lot of comments on this thread. Just came to say hi to Sister and all you guys who’ve commented here…
Chacko I understand it’s offensive that people are trying to sow discord amongst our brothers but they are just lost. Anyone who has hate in his heart is lost. Jesus is reaching out to them let’s not come in his way by furthering their hate if we can help it.
I say that as a fellow christian because Paul gave us the right to speak freely to each other even if we have no right to judge one outside the church.
Just wanna say I’m an Indian convert to Christianity living in India and social rights here are not equal among all like legal rights are. If you want to protest, the anti-conversion legislations are a better thing to protest against. Hate will always exist. Win a case against one person, or against 3 or 5, you remove hate only from their hearts. More will come. Jesus promised persecution to all who love him, no servant is greater than his master. If we do not forgive why should we expect to be forgiven?
Note to Rajeev- I wouldn’t judge Chacko or anyone as a follower or non-follower of anybody. I don’t know who you follow, but do you follow them perfectly? If man was not fallen, there would be no need for a Saviour. We’re all imperfect. We all “know” what is good but no one can act according to it perfectly, no one.
That’s why Jesus wasn’t “just” an elevated thinker. He was the perfect, sinless Son of God because no man is perfect and God is merciful. If you wanna continue this conversation, comment anywhere at my blog or email me – RED.wpblog@gmail.com
Chacko, good luck in whatever you decide to do- in my opinion, the Christian community and all of India would benefit the most from love and patience in prayer- but my wisdom is also limited, I pray peace and God’s will be done in your life and through you in other people’s lives.
Love,
-RED
March 1, 2007 at 9:48 pm
That’s Ms. Red to you
March 2, 2007 at 9:07 am
[...] on the comments that I have read on this post, it seems that there are lots of people who are more passionate about religion than their jobs, [...]
March 2, 2007 at 10:13 am
Leave all these images, and faiths, you will have only one image of love. With image of christ or krishna or sound of Allah, people will be surely stuck there and will argue whose image is better…Fools. Like the blinds talking about the Elephat they perceived.
Images are mentally created, socially conditioned. Rituals follow to make a man real salve to certain faith and makes him violent to throw stones at others who got another set of images…better get rid of all these images. See the being near and around as “Suffering beings” with very many problems including religion.
With a lot of compassion,
Rajeev
March 3, 2007 at 5:25 am
Chacko, you have no case at all and would be just going around in circles. The website is not manufacturing information. It is pulling what is reported from different sources. What are you going to do strangle the media ? Wake up. The media is reporting the truth. The only problem is that it is not to your liking. I am a hindu and i know first hand what the missionaries are upto. The w4ebsite is just reflecting the devious ways of your brothers. Quit being a fool and try to amend your ways. The resistance would only intensify. Clean up your acts. Quit talking about national divide and brotherhood. It just doesn’t seem right when at the same time you support the missionary dementia. There can be no brotherhood until the rat called “missionary” is eradicated. Your support only proves you are one of them. You are a neo-convert and you just cannot face truth about the deception of the faith that you converted to.That is understandable
March 3, 2007 at 5:33 am
Chacko”
India is my country, if we have a problem, we will solve it. Please don’t waste your bandwidth and web-design skills on creating hate. Take down your website by the end of this month. If you don’t, I will be reporting this matter to the Government of India and the US authorities. I will not let losers like you create divisions in my country.
”
================================================
Man you reek of hypocricy.Very true to your religion. Your empty bellows only makes you a laughing stock.
March 3, 2007 at 7:51 am
Chacko, I didn’t want to leave without mentioning that if you and your missionary pigs do succeed at any level(if at all) then the rift would widen like enevr before. And yes you can act all enlightened by guessing where i am. You should not be worried as to where i am but where i am going.
You are such an ass
March 3, 2007 at 11:32 am
Dear “Hindu” -
I’m left with a perplexed sigh after reading your words. I hear the words you use against the Christian, “missionary dimentia” “missionary pigs” “hyprocricy” “empty bellows.” I hear your extreme words but I’m having a hard time understanding you. What atrocities have been created that would create such deep hatred towards another. Examples would be helpful.
Rajeev- Thanks for your long message to me. I did see kindness in your words and I received your words so well. I have studied the scriptures in a formal setting and other religions and texts as well. You mentioned the Holy Scriptures (Bible) written by “not so holy people.” You are certainly right about that. I have taken on the conviction that NO human is holy. That would have to include the authors. The GREAT thing about the GREAT Creator is that He chose not to dictate each of our lives. He chose to search our hearts and work through our lives, even though we are the spotted, scarred, and stained. He breaths new life into the self-indulgent, money thirsty, blood hungry and makes all things new. That is what is so great about all contributors of the 184 comments on this site. There is none of you that God is not willing to give new life to. The highest respected leader of the religous task force to kill Christians in the New Testament days ended up being the author of half of the New Testament of the Bible…..go figure. Quote:
“But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.” 1 Tim 1:6
(Apostle Paul)
click this link for a deeper decription of that http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=22&version=31&context=chapter
Rajeev- Interesting thought you mentioned about when faith leaves, love replaces. I personally have a hard time owning that statement. The jungle people who live away from civilization and away from belief, are in the depths of evil and despair. Relentless murder against neighboring tribes. Deaths upon deaths. I don’t think that when we are left with ourselves, we are left with love. I think that when we are left with ourselves we are left with despair. My “adopted” grandpa was a man who chose to travel through the jungles in South America and lived 39 years with these people. It was only through that connection with Faith in the Creator of the universe that a male tribal head lived long enough to see a grandchild. Murders were so rampent that old age was never experienced. The thing about it, the Creator of the universe who designed each of you with intention and anticipation longs to reach into despair and a life far from God and bring healing and breath spiritual life into us.
Why Christianity? Every religion outside of TRUE Christ followers…Bible…requires some form of duty to attain “bliss” “Heaven” “Paradise” “Nirvana” ALL. Yet, what is the measure? Each one works hard or not so hard but is murder the cut off line. Do I pray so many times a day? Do I perform some sort of ritual so many times? Do understand, God does require perfection. God is Holy, blameless, pure. In the Old Testament days people would sacrifice the most perfect lamb. The God of the universe took on the wight of the sin of the world in sacrifice for us. Perfect. Love. Atonement. Clean. No duty required because even the attempt would be like a slap in the face to the Holy Creator of the Universe.
Trust, Faith, Forgiveness.
The weight of ouselves by ourselves, because of ourselves……..lifted.
Freedom
love-
little sis
March 4, 2007 at 8:16 am
Rajendra,
very very nice writings. I highly appreciate your references. Let me know your email ids, I will keep touch.
Rajeev, Venkat, you may also share your ids. I have left mine in one of the messages.
thanks,
jay
March 4, 2007 at 12:31 pm
this christian missionaries should be sued first for the illegal conversion that they are doing. not the christianaggression.com website. Anything that exposes the real truth will be disturbing for the culprits.
Hinduisim is a religion that thought the world universal acceptance & toleration.
Proud to be a Hindu
Manohar C N
March 5, 2007 at 2:57 am
I read a lot of posts on this site. Some deplorable and some thought provoking. I am a Christian however what struck me most on the discussion was how conveniently some of us have ignored the reason why the hindus are angry. I have repeatedly read questions from fellow christians as to what the cause of anger and hatred is. I believe that is kind of myopic. The hindus are in arms because of conversions. How can you miss the connatations and the denotations. How straightforward could the answer be?Why are my fellow christians not accepting the truth that there is lot of resentment and bad air because of these activities. I am all for end to nefarious conversions. Let hindus feel free to practice what they have practiced for thousands of year. Lets not meddle with the balance.Christians should work with hindus to end this sham under the name of religion.
March 5, 2007 at 1:29 pm
Mr.Paul, at last i found one true follower of Christ. My email id is r_govardhanam(at)yahoo(dot)com. Let me clarify one more point. I am not against or for conversion. But I am against deceiving. When a person is hungry, give some food and say “Christ has come to you in the form of food” is deceiving. Christ will surely commit suicide with such kind of propaganda.
Little Sis, A creator and protector is only a concept. Never proven. You are talking as if you know that better than anyone else in this world. “Love” is a proven connectedness. Belief in Christ or bible is not required to understand “True Love”.
There is a church near to my house. For all newly converted Christians. They are so against Hindus and the culture they followed till now. They are almost militant to take weapons against fellow Hindu beings around. They Object to give land(government land) to an School which got prayers done of all 3 major religions. If this is what they get from Church, then are they really getting civilised or uncivilised????????. Changing from traditional dress to Suit and coat is civilisation? Then you will say Gandhiji was the most uncivilised person along with Christ. Christ also didn’t apear in coat and suit. If the religion not teaching tolerance and patience as Christ taught, it will be dumped by civilised people. That is the reason educated westerners started looking to east for solace.
Whatever poor condition India is in now is the creation of Colonialism(Catholism then). Whatever richness now westerners got is what they snatched from their colonies long back. Now, that same wealth you are using through church to get followers(in my understanding other kind of slaves)asking to kill their own mother(the land and its culture) for food? then seeding hatred towards neighbours who keeps another “Picture” of god in his house? You call it civilising? Little sis, when will you grow up?
With a lot of compassion,
Rajeev
March 5, 2007 at 9:56 pm
A Word to Paul C,
“Let hindus feel free to practice what they have practiced for thousands of year. Lets not meddle with the balance.”
Near the beginning of the Olivet Prophecy, Jesus Christ foretells that the good news of the coming Kingdom of God will be preached to the entire world: And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. (Matthew 24:14)
This verse is not a commission to anyone in particular—neither to the first-century apostles, nor anyone else. Jesus simply makes a statement of fact, prophesying that the entire world will hear the gospel preached as a witness and then God will act to bring about the end of this present age of man.
Christ does give His disciples a commission—and through them, His church: Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” (Matthew 28:19-20; emphasis ours throughout)
Matthew 24:14 and Matthew 28:19-20 are not synonymous. In the latter verses, though preaching as a witness is included within the scope of the commission, it actually places more emphasis on the entire process of conversion, feeding, growing, and overcoming than merely witnessing, as in Matthew 24:14.
March 6, 2007 at 5:18 am
I don’t believe in forcing any thing down anyone’s throat. Your are interpreting things your own way to achieve your end. If hindus are not interested in Gospel then let it be. You tried selling the ideology and they have rejected it. Thats’ all there is to it.
March 6, 2007 at 9:50 am
[...] Chacko writers in Mutiny.in about Christianaggression.org.. Right. You name your site [...]
March 6, 2007 at 10:16 am
Lisa,
When I did my schooling, Christians distributed Bible and threatened students that the world will come to an end by 1985, and one must convert to christianity to avoid Hell. By 1985 they postponed the date to 1990 and threatened students. Then they told 2000 is end of the word so no jesus no heaven. This is threatening and cheating people and converting them.
The world will not come to an end. But the christianity will. In US churches are closing. Few churches out-sourced prayers to churches in Kerala. In Kerala fathers are throwing stones on churches to claim their rights on the it. I have two requests :
1) Go and advice those preachers to keep peace and not throw stones on churches.
2) Advice those priest who overtook the church to be liberal and yield to other christians too.
2 1/2) Don’t preach love to others when none of you have it.
‘Jesus loves you; others think you are an ass hole’
Jayakumar Rajagopal
March 7, 2007 at 3:20 pm
“What exactly are you losers worried about? That 2.3 per cent of Indian’s Christian community will take over the Red Fort in Delhi?”
No not at all..We are not worried about anyone taking over us…It’s about thanklessness,ingratitude and betrayal that the missionaries do to those who welcomed them.
Liars would be those who say Christians are 2.3% of Indian population!
To Joe & Chacko – We know very well about our religion,that is the Sanatana Dharma’.We don’t have to learn anything from Sunday school preachers like you!
To Nita – If you want to know how Hate spread through before the arrival of Internet,please study more on supremacy theories on African invasion,American slavery,life of Adolf Hitler,rise of Christianity in Europe etc.(list is pretty exhaustive..).Iam sure you will get an answer.
March 7, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Paul C, where have I mentioned forcing someone? As a Christian it is your duty to spread the Gospel. What I mentioned above is from the Bible not something I made up.
To Jayakumar Rajagopal:
“When I did my schooling, Christians distributed Bible and threatened students that the world will come to an end by 1985, and one must convert to christianity to avoid Hell. By 1985 they postponed the date to 1990 and threatened students. Then they told 2000 is end of the word so no jesus no heaven. This is threatening and cheating people and converting them.”
Seriously dude, I have a hard time believing your story. I still don’t understand how can anybody force someone to convert?
March 7, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Lisa,My last reply on this post,.This horse has been beaten to death here.Duty is onething and again “resorting to deception” in fulfilling that duty is another thing. If a duty needs to be fulfilled only while resorting to treachery and deception, then it wasn’t a duty in the first place. You are probably confused between the words “Duty” and “Agenda”. What you are following is your agenda. You and Little sis seem to be in convenient denial of the truth.I wont return to see the response or comment here but a final word to everyone…Nationality and Religion are very personal emotions and lets not infringe/encroach on these emotions.
Peace
March 8, 2007 at 3:44 am
Chacko,
I have read with interest your perception on “aggression”. While I do not profess to be a subject matter expert, I would like to offer my 2 cents.
Firstly, India is one of the few countries with a minority prime minister, minority president and a minority leader of the ruling party. I cannot think of many nations with such a track record.
All the same, the views expressed by a majority of the posts (however colorful, be the prose!) call for some introspection. I think the grievance here is that there has been a effort to exploit this secular atmosphere by minority groups, be it in the form of preferred licenses to conduct educational enterprises or religious organisations.
For eg, I cannot understand why places of worship belonging to the minority community do not come under the governments purview, while my donations to my temple are partly absorbed by the state government.(Minority boards are for your reference – WAKF board, etc). I think there should be one law for all, irresp of religious affiliation.
Personally, I have been a liberal all my life, but I am gravitating towards the far right when I see these policies of appeasement.
My suggestion is that some effort be made to analyze these appeasement policies which in turn convert secular minded people to the far right.
March 8, 2007 at 9:14 am
Lisa,
Don’t be insenstive(typical cause of frequent visits to church) in reading others mail. I am writing a fact. there for I am. I you are not able to believe what I am saying is true, what shall I do?
If you don’t understand forced conversion possible, it is your ignorance. what you want me to do about that? After India’s independence, in Goa hindu’s were offered christianity/death by Portuguese. It is history and truth; what else you need?. If you are not extremely insenstive person, you would have already read several links my brohters have given in this page.
I am frustrated really. Explaining or proving something to christians is like explaining Nuclear phisics to a LKG dropped.
March 8, 2007 at 10:09 pm
Lisa,
“Paul C, where have I mentioned forcing someone? As a Christian it is your duty to spread the Gospel. What I mentioned above is from the Bible not something I made up”.
Lets analyze your statement:
01.You are not forcing anyone, because you are in no position to do so,(politically, or socially). If you WERE in a position to do so, I cannot predict what would have been the scenario.
02. Why is it that Christians conveniently decide not to follow the Bibles “duty to spread the Gospel” policy, in places like Saudi Arabia?
==> Such places make you think of the consequences of conversion, and you decide not to lose your head or other parts of your anatomy. However, in places such as India where you can do this thanks to our patience, tolerance and secularism, you are on the warpath. Can you list of any agency brave enough to proselytize in Saudi Arabia?
March 9, 2007 at 4:54 am
Yo chako dude, month’s up and
ChristianAggression.org still is up and running?
How’s that complaint to get them banned coming along?
If it’s not too late, some more sites I’d like you to
consider in your complaint.
The first is about some 40 odd anti-Hindu websites
exposed for their Christian activities:
http://www.hinduamericanfoundation.org/pdf/hate_report_2007.pdf
Also, it seems like Hindutva takeover of an non-Hindutva
website or media house called Tehelka is but certain. If you
don’t believe me, check this report:
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main.asp?filename=ts013004shashi.asp&id=1
The reporter has audacity to tell us that Falwell, Pat Robertson etc
to whom Lord Jesus speaks directly with needs an
army of communication consultants and
database experts to identify desi souls that needs saving!!
File a complaint against them too please.
And please keep us all updated.
March 9, 2007 at 3:32 pm
Dear Lisa and Little Sis,
You are trying to teach your professor. As I told you the Bible you carry is a piece of wisdom our ancestors have thrown through “Jesus” to an uncivilised society of that time to the extend they can understand. That also failed and still failing.
You are thinking and conditioned by Bible and Vatican to such an extend that “a piece” is the whole.
If you got the courage to interact more with Indians/paul kind of people you will surely stop going to Sunday School. In kerala also I know there is at leat a 30% of christians(by birth) do not go to church at all. I know now you will die of heart attack. But, I do not aim that. I request you to read other books also. for a change read “Pablo Neruda” for some time.HA HA HA….
Learn Meditation, Practice Yoga, you will have a longer happy life than going to church with a worried mind as why others are not getting converted?????????Why the no of convert this week is only 100? If this is the way 600 crore how much time it will take? Will I be able to see everybody all over the world calling jesus?
You can…Lisa. Make an animation movie of your choice and keep watching till the world ends(till you die). I will pray for your next birth to happen in India to think “Wholesomely”.
With a lot of compassion,
Rajeev
March 9, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Rajeev my brother, Bible never failed. Please read the following information provided by Providence Baptist Ministries.
The survival of the Bible through the ages is very difficult to explain if it is not in truth the Word of God. Books are like men—dying creatures. A very small percentage of books survive more than twenty years, yet smaller percentage last a hundred years and only a very insignificant fraction represent those which have lived a thousand years. Amid the wreck and ruin of ancient literature the Holy Scriptures stand out like the last survivor of an otherwise extinct race, and the very fact of the Bible’s continued existence is an indication that like its Author it is indestructible.
When we bear in mind the fact that the Bible has been the special object of never ending persecution the wonder of the Bible’s survival is changed into a miracle. Not only has the Bible been the most intensely loved Book in all the world, but it has also been the most bitterly hated. Not only has the Bible received more veneration and adoration than any other book, but it has also been the object of more persecution and opposition. For two thousand years man’s hatred of the Bible has been persistent, determined, relentless and murderous. Every possible effort has been made to undermine faith in the inspiration and authority of the Bible and innumerable enterprises have been undertaken with the determination to consign it to oblivion. Imperial edicts have been issued to the effect that every known copy of the Bible should be destroyed, and when this measure failed to exterminate and annihilate God’s Word then commands were given that every person found with a copy of the Scriptures in his possession should be put to death. The very fact that the Bible has been so singled out for such relentless persecution causes us to wonder at such a unique phenomenon.
Although the Bible is the best Book in the world yet is has produced more enmity and opposition than has the combined contents of all our libraries. Why should this be? Clearly because the Scriptures convict men of their guilt and condemn them for their sins! Political and ecclesiastical powers have united in the attempt to put the Bible out of existence, yet their concentrated efforts have utterly failed. After all the persecution which has assailed the Bible, it is, humanly speaking, a wonder that there is any Bible left at all. Every engine of destruction which human philosophy, science, force, and hatred could bring against a book has been brought against the Bible, yet it stands unshaken and unharmed today. When we remember that no army has defended the Bible and no king has ever ordered its enemies to be extirpated, our wonderment increases. At times nearly all the wise and great of the earth have been pitted together against the Bible, while only a few despised ones have honored and revered it. The cities of the ancients were lighted with bonfires made of Bibles, and for centuries only those in hiding dare read it. How then, can we account for the survival of the Bible in the face of such bitter persecution? The only solution is to be found in the promise of God. “Heaven and earth shall pass away, butMy Words shall not pass away.”
The story of the Bible’s persecution is an arresting one. During the first three centuries of the Christian era the Roman Emperors sought to destroy God’s Word. One of them, named Diocletian, believed that he had succeeded. He had slain so many Christians and destroyed so many Bibles, that when the lovers of the Bible remained quiet for a season and kept in hiding, he imagined that he had made an end of the Scriptures. So elated was he at this achievement, he ordered a medal to be struck inscribed with the words, “The Christian religion is destroyed and the worship of the gods restored.” One wonders what that emperor would think if he returned to this earth today and found that more had been written about the Bible than about any other thousand books put together, and that the Bible which enshrines the Christian faith is now translated into more than four hundred languages and is being sent out to every part of the earth!
Centuries after the persecution by the Roman Emperors, when the Roman Catholic Church obtained command of the city of Rome, the Pope and his priests took up the old quarrel against the Bible. The Holy Scriptures were taken away from the people, copies of the Bible were forbidden to be purchased and all who were found with a copy of God’s Word in their possession were tortured and killed. For centuries the Roman Catholic Church bitterly persecuted the Bible and it was not until the time of the Reformation at the close of the sixteenth century that the Word of God was again given to the masses in their own tongue.
Even in our day the persecution of the Bible still continues, though the method of attack is changed. Much of our modern scholarship is engaged in the work of seeking to destroy faith in the Divine inspiration and authority of the Bible. In many of our seminaries the rising generation of the clergy are taught that Genesis is a book of myths, that much of the teaching of the Pentateuch is immoral, that the historical records of the Old Testament are unreliable and that the whole Bible is man’s creation rather than God’s revelation. And so the attack on the Bible is being perpetuated.
Now suppose there was a man who had lived upon this earth for eighteen hundred years, that this man had oftentimes been thrown into the sea and yet could not be drowned; that he had frequently been cast before wild beasts who were unable to devour him; that he had many times been made to drink deadly poisons which never did him any harm; that he had often been bound in iron chains and locked in prison dungeons, yet he had always been able to throw off the chains and escape from his captivity; that he had repeatedly been hanged, till his enemies thought him dead, yet when his body was cut down he sprang to his feet and walked away as though nothing had happened; that hundreds of times he had been burned at the stake, till there seemed to be nothing left of him, yet as soon as the fires were out he leaped up from the ashes as well and as vigorous as ever—but we need not expand this idea any further; such a man would be super-human, a miracle of miracles. Yet this is exactly how we should regard the Bible! This is practically the way in which the Bible has been treated. It has been burned, drowned, chained, put in prison, and torn to pieces, yet never destroyed!
No other book has provoked such fierce opposition as the Bible, and its preservation is perhaps the most startling miracle connected with it. But two thousand five hundred years ago God declared, “The grass withereth, the flower fadeth, but the Word of our God shall abide for ever.” Just as the three Hebrews passed safely through the fiery furnace of Nebuchadnezzar unharmed and unscorched, so the Bible has emerged from the furnace of satanic hatred and assault without even the smell of fire upon it! Just as an earthly parent treasures and lays by the letters received from his child, so our Heavenly Father has protected and preserved the Epistles of love written to His children.
As far as Saudi Arabia goes, yes there is Christian Ministry there.
March 10, 2007 at 11:21 am
Dear Lisa,
Now it is fun. Few question about your god.
1. Is this world created by God? When did he make the first human being and when did he send his son to earth? How many years difference were there? Why didn’t he send his son first to make ascendants from him.
2. Whether “Sathan” was here before the creation of the world or God created Satan?
3.Why satan got as much power as god and are they twins?
4.Bible is ofcourse one of the widely distributed “Pamphlet” free of cost. What is the sales per year? “Zero”???
5. If you stop printing and distributing this from Vatican. I assure you, there won’t be anybody to buy that in 10 years from now. Because it doesn’t carry any content. No rationality other than “God said, God said”.
6. What is your bibile says about much older books called “Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Abhidhamma Sutta etc”? When your ancestors were making fire from stones, Indian were studying about the size of Mars and its characteristics.But, they failed in one front of making a “Thugs’ army” to counter the attacks of “Uncivilised people”.
7.Why your bible talking about one cause for all(In think including Satan). and not even mentioning about multiple causes for this world?
8. What are all the other books you read other than bible?
9.Why the maximum “Psychic” cases are being reported from Christian countries? While other countries which follows and got much better medical facilities got far less such cases which follows other religions?
10. Christ asked to love the neighbour. Have you got any idea why he said so? what if we go at night and kill him? Leave hell and heaven(As I know nobody came from hell/heaven to tell their experience till now. What is the implication in mind, society and evolution of the subtle reactivity? Is your bible capable to answer these?
11. Last question? Actually What is bible? HA HA HA.
Lisa, I sympathise with your myopic view about the world, god and miracles. Don’t waste your life. Come and meet me in India. I will tell what is what and what is not. I know, I have used a bit of insulting language. I am sorry, some times “Insult” works as a motivation to some to open the inner eyes and see all around. If this experiment also fails, I don’t know in what horrible “Hypnotised” condition you are in? and how to save you. Anyway, love to you and will pray for you.
With a lot of compassion,
Rajeev
March 13, 2007 at 1:17 am
Now it is fun. Few question about your god.
1. Is this world created by God? When did he make the first human being and when did he send his son to earth? How many years difference were there? Why didn’t he send his son first to make ascendants from him.
God is the creator of all people, the world, the universe, and everything seen and unseen. This is based on various Bible passages, including the Bible’s book of Genesis.
I cannot tell you exactly when God created Adam and Eve. But, Abraham lived around 2100 BC (4100 years ago) in what is now Iraq.
About 5 BC (2005 years ago) Jesus is born in Bethlehem
The troubles of the universe originated among the celestials, among the angels, long before man was created. Humanity was an entirely separate creation, made in the image and likeness of God to be the form in which God’s own Son could come to give up His life for the universe, and remedy what had gone wrong in that higher sphere.
2. Whether “Sathan” was here before the creation of the world or God created Satan?
Satan and his evil angels had been sinning for very long time, before Adam and Eve were created.
3.Why satan got as much power as god and are they twins?
God is the Author of life, not death. He created Lucifer. Lucifer became Satan by his own rebellion (see Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28). He then instigated the rebellion of one-third of the angels who became demons (see Revelation 12). God created Adam who rebelled by sinning and led a parade of fallen humanity. Sin in the world is the result of God’s creation rebelling against Him. The Lord, however, remains both all powerful and completely good (see Jude 25: Exodus 34:6). Therefore, at any time, He could choose to say, “Enough is enough” and put a stop to all the activities of Satan as well as to all the activities of us sinful people–and one day He will. Until that Second Coming of Christ, however, we face the harsh reality that incredible evil and suffering abound in our world.
4.Bible is ofcourse one of the widely distributed “Pamphlet” free of cost. What is the sales per year? “Zero”???
Don’t you think someone had to pay for the cost of the Bible or it’s pamphlet to distribute it free? It is not about profit my dear friend.
5. If you stop printing and distributing this from Vatican. I assure you, there won’t be anybody to buy that in 10 years from now. Because it doesn’t carry any content. No rationality other than “God said, God said”.
6. What is your bibile says about much older books called “Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Abhidhamma Sutta etc”? When your ancestors were making fire from stones, Indian were studying about the size of Mars and its characteristics.But, they failed in one front of making a “Thugs’ army” to counter the attacks of “Uncivilised people”.
My Bible says, Jesus is the Son of God, that He is one with God, and that He was sent here for our salvation. In John 10:30.
Lol about my ancestors. Dude, even though I am the 3rd generation here in the US, I am an Indian Origin. Otherwise why would I come and read about Indian news in The Great Indian Mutiny?
7.Why your bible talking about one cause for all(In think including Satan). and not even mentioning about multiple causes for this world?
Read the answer to your question #11.
8. What are all the other books you read other than bible?
Novels (drama, fiction comedy and thriller), Discover Magazine (Science, Technology and the Future), National Geography, I love to watch Food Network.
9.Why the maximum “Psychic” cases are being reported from Christian countries? While other countries which follows and got much better medical facilities got far less such cases which follows other religions?
I don’t understand the above question Rajeev.
10. Christ asked to love the neighbour. Have you got any idea why he said so? what if we go at night and kill him? Leave hell and heaven(As I know nobody came from hell/heaven to tell their experience till now. What is the implication in mind, society and evolution of the subtle reactivity? Is your bible capable to answer these?
1st part of the question, Love thy neighbor was, in part, Jesus’ answer when the Pharisees, the chief religious sect of that day, asked Him about the greatest commandment in the Law (See Matthew 22:36-40). These religious leaders had made almost an art form of classifying all the various laws and giving them relative degrees of importance, so in asking Jesus this question, their aim was to test Him. His answer stunned them: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments. Jesus was summing up all the law in these two statements. If we love the Lord God with all our heart, soul and mind, loving our neighbor is the natural result.
2nd part of the question, Are you really asking me a question or saying some mumbo jumbo?
11. Last question? Actually What is bible? HA HA HA.
The Bible is the account of God’s action in the world and his purpose with all creation. The writing of the Bible took place over sixteen centuries and is the work of over forty human authors. It is a quite amazing collection of 66 books with very different styles all containing the message God desired us to have.
This compilation of booklets contains an astonishing variety of literary styles. It provides many stories about the lives of good and bad people, about battles and journeys, about the life of Jesus along with letters written to groups of Christians that met in homes. It comes to us in narratives and dialogues, in proverbs and parables, in songs and allegories, in history and prophecy.
The accounts in the Bible were not generally written down as they occurred. Rather they were told over and over again and handed down through the years before someone finally wrote them down. Yet the same themes may be found throughout the book.
So along with the diversity there is also a remarkable unity. So what is the Bible? Well, in addition to all the above, the Bible is this:
•It is a guide for living life to the full. It gives us a road map for the perilous journey of life. Or to put it another way, on our voyage through life’s ocean, we find our anchor right here.
•It is a storehouse of wonderful stories for children and grownups. Remember Noah and the ark? Joseph’s coat of many colors? Daniel in the lion’s den? Jonah and the fish? The parables of Jesus? In these stories we recognize the triumphs and failures of ordinary people – and we may even see ourselves!
•It is a refuge in trouble. People in pain, in suffering, in prison, in mourning, tell how they turned to the Bible and found strength there in their desperate hours.
•It is a treasury of insight as to who we are. We are not meaningless robots, but we are magnificent creatures of a God who loves us and gives us a purpose and a destiny.
•It is a sourcebook for everyday living. We find standards for our conduct, guidelines for knowing right from wrong, principles to help us in a confused society where so often “anything goes.”
And finally, thanks for your prayers. If you want to know more about the Bible, email me at mathewlisa@yahoo.com
March 13, 2007 at 1:18 am
Now it is fun. Few question about your god.
1. Is this world created by God? When did he make the first human being and when did he send his son to earth? How many years difference were there? Why didn’t he send his son first to make ascendants from him.
God is the creator of all people, the world, the universe, and everything seen and unseen. This is based on various Bible passages, including the Bible’s book of Genesis.
I cannot tell you exactly when God created Adam and Eve. But, Abraham lived around 2100 BC (4100 years ago) in what is now Iraq.
About 5 BC (2005 years ago) Jesus is born in Bethlehem
The troubles of the universe originated among the celestials, among the angels, long before man was created. Humanity was an entirely separate creation, made in the image and likeness of God to be the form in which God’s own Son could come to give up His life for the universe, and remedy what had gone wrong in that higher sphere.
2. Whether “Sathan” was here before the creation of the world or God created Satan?
Satan and his evil angels had been sinning for very long time, before Adam and Eve were created.
3.Why satan got as much power as god and are they twins?
God is the Author of life, not death. He created Lucifer. Lucifer became Satan by his own rebellion (see Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28). He then instigated the rebellion of one-third of the angels who became demons (see Revelation 12). God created Adam who rebelled by sinning and led a parade of fallen humanity. Sin in the world is the result of God’s creation rebelling against Him. The Lord, however, remains both all powerful and completely good (see Jude 25: Exodus 34:6). Therefore, at any time, He could choose to say, “Enough is enough” and put a stop to all the activities of Satan as well as to all the activities of us sinful people–and one day He will. Until that Second Coming of Christ, however, we face the harsh reality that incredible evil and suffering abound in our world.
4.Bible is ofcourse one of the widely distributed “Pamphlet” free of cost. What is the sales per year? “Zero”???
Don’t you think someone had to pay for the cost of the Bible or it’s pamphlet to distribute it free? It is not about profit my dear friend.
5. If you stop printing and distributing this from Vatican. I assure you, there won’t be anybody to buy that in 10 years from now. Because it doesn’t carry any content. No rationality other than “God said, God said”.
6. What is your bibile says about much older books called “Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Abhidhamma Sutta etc”? When your ancestors were making fire from stones, Indian were studying about the size of Mars and its characteristics.But, they failed in one front of making a “Thugs’ army” to counter the attacks of “Uncivilised people”.
My Bible says, Jesus is the Son of God, that He is one with God, and that He was sent here for our salvation. In John 10:30.
Lol about my ancestors. Dude, even though I am the 3rd generation here in the US, I am an Indian Origin. Otherwise why would I come and read about Indian news in The Great Indian Mutiny?
7.Why your bible talking about one cause for all(In think including Satan). and not even mentioning about multiple causes for this world?
Read the answer to your question #11.
8. What are all the other books you read other than bible?
Novels (drama, fiction comedy and thriller), Discover Magazine (Science, Technology and the Future), National Geography, I love to watch Food Network.
9.Why the maximum “Psychic” cases are being reported from Christian countries? While other countries which follows and got much better medical facilities got far less such cases which follows other religions?
I don’t understand the above question Rajeev.
10. Christ asked to love the neighbour. Have you got any idea why he said so? what if we go at night and kill him? Leave hell and heaven(As I know nobody came from hell/heaven to tell their experience till now. What is the implication in mind, society and evolution of the subtle reactivity? Is your bible capable to answer these?
1st part of the question, Love thy neighbor was, in part, Jesus’ answer when the Pharisees, the chief religious sect of that day, asked Him about the greatest commandment in the Law (See Matthew 22:36-40). These religious leaders had made almost an art form of classifying all the various laws and giving them relative degrees of importance, so in asking Jesus this question, their aim was to test Him. His answer stunned them: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments. Jesus was summing up all the law in these two statements. If we love the Lord God with all our heart, soul and mind, loving our neighbor is the natural result.
2nd part of the question, Are you really asking me a question or saying some mumbo jumbo?
11. Last question? Actually What is bible? HA HA HA.
The Bible is the account of God’s action in the world and his purpose with all creation. The writing of the Bible took place over sixteen centuries and is the work of over forty human authors. It is a quite amazing collection of 66 books with very different styles all containing the message God desired us to have.
This compilation of booklets contains an astonishing variety of literary styles. It provides many stories about the lives of good and bad people, about battles and journeys, about the life of Jesus along with letters written to groups of Christians that met in homes. It comes to us in narratives and dialogues, in proverbs and parables, in songs and allegories, in history and prophecy.
The accounts in the Bible were not generally written down as they occurred. Rather they were told over and over again and handed down through the years before someone finally wrote them down. Yet the same themes may be found throughout the book.
So along with the diversity there is also a remarkable unity. So what is the Bible? Well, in addition to all the above, the Bible is this:
•It is a guide for living life to the full. It gives us a road map for the perilous journey of life. Or to put it another way, on our voyage through life’s ocean, we find our anchor right here.
•It is a storehouse of wonderful stories for children and grownups. Remember Noah and the ark? Joseph’s coat of many colors? Daniel in the lion’s den? Jonah and the fish? The parables of Jesus? In these stories we recognize the triumphs and failures of ordinary people – and we may even see ourselves!
•It is a refuge in trouble. People in pain, in suffering, in prison, in mourning, tell how they turned to the Bible and found strength there in their desperate hours.
•It is a treasury of insight as to who we are. We are not meaningless robots, but we are magnificent creatures of a God who loves us and gives us a purpose and a destiny.
•It is a sourcebook for everyday living. We find standards for our conduct, guidelines for knowing right from wrong, principles to help us in a confused society where so often “anything goes.”
And finally, thanks for your prayers. If you want to know more about Bible, please email me at mathewlisa@yahoo.com
March 13, 2007 at 9:21 am
I came across this article by renowned journalist Francois Gautier, who spent some time researching ” Atrocities perpetuated on Christians”.
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/christian_persecution_in_india.htm
I also read an expose by Tehelka magazine which talks of a grandiose scheme by the Christian right to convert the “heathen” indian masses and “deliver” them to Jesus.
If you were to look at this from a business plan standpoint, its brilliant! Divide India into zip codes (data available from any post office), assign each zip code to an Area Manager/”Pastor” with yearly conversion/”salvation” targets. They even ran a trial run, where a jornalist wrote to these U.S based ministries asking for some information on Christianity. He was immediately contacted by someone who lived,less than a km from him in India. This model would beat any Harvard business plan, hands down!
Statistically,converts come from exploited sections of society.i.e lower income groups, politically deprived communities etc (I can’t think of any reason a Brahmin would convert, unless compelling circumstances were present. eg – Tipu Sultan’s sword – N Kerala Islamic conversions).
Since there is no shortage of that critical mass in India, I won’t be surprised if the Christian population doubles in the next 10 years.
March 13, 2007 at 9:46 am
Lisa,
With all due respect, I am afraid you have tied yourself up in a contradiction of sorts.
I am sure the Bible would want you to obey the laws of the land. Yet, in post 202 have stated that there IS a Ministry in Saudi Arabia.
This brings us to a v. key point of inflection-
a) It IS an active ministry – The Islamic Kingdom of Saudi Arabia explicitly forbids any non-Islamic religious activities,in any guise. Unlike India, they are not exactly a poor nation, and therefore a ministries activities cannot be disguised as “aid”. So, technically you are breaking the law.
b) It IS NOT an active ministry – In that case, I see this as a very selective application of the Bible and its teachings, which explicitly states that there is only one god, Jesus Christ.
Are you actually telling me that the faithful are walking around the streets of Riyadh/Jeddah handing out Bibles to eager Arabs..hhmm..v brave, indeed.
I am not standing up for any form of organised religion. Every form of religion I have seen, has its weaknesses, which should be debated.
Respectfully,
Sofoclese
March 13, 2007 at 11:21 am
RSS is Worl’d largest Terrorist Organization
What makes one or an organization terrorist?
American Heritage Dictionary: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
Does the Sanghparivar have any or all of these qualities in its work to make it not to declare it as the world’s largest terrorist organization?
An American research centre has placed our ultra-nationalist Rashtrya Swayamsewak Sangh (RSS) on its terrorist list. The East Virginia-based Terrorism Research Center (TRC) is closely connected to the American government and many of its directors and researchers have closely worked with US administrations and have taken part in research and planning for the US administration.
In the list of Terrorist Organizations in India, the TRC has placed RSS under no. 21. Here is the link as it appeared on 9 September 2004 on the group?s website under the caption “Known Terrorist Groups Operating in India”.
http://www.terrorism.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Countries&file=index&view=113
March 13, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Dear Lisa sister,
Now it is fun. Few question about your god.
My question: 1. Is this world created by God? When did he make the first human being and when did he send his son to earth? How many years difference were there? Why didn’t he send his son first to make ascendants from him.
Your answer: God is the creator of all people, the world, the universe, and everything seen and unseen. This is based on various Bible passages, including the Bible’s book of Genesis.
I cannot tell you exactly when God created Adam and Eve. But, Abraham lived around 2100 BC (4100 years ago) in what is now Iraq.
About 5 BC (2005 years ago) Jesus is born in Bethlehem
The troubles of the universe originated among the celestials, among the angels, long before man was created. Humanity was an entirely separate creation, made in the image and likeness of God to be the form in which God’s own Son could come to give up His life for the universe, and remedy what had gone wrong in that higher sphere.
My explanation: Lisa, My dear sister, do you think I will take an argument as true because it is mentioned in “Bible”? or it is in its genesis? If you are able to say clearly about the birth of “Jesus” by quoting bible, why you are not able to say about many other things starting from the birth of Adam and Eve, Computer, Bandwidth, Medicine for AIDS etc etc. Why bible didn’t mention all those things. Why Christ has to come for a second time? Why didn’t he comleted his job first time itself?
If god created this all, he must be aware about the celestial problems as well. Why he didn’t avoid all those? Why he created man incomplete? Why did he create first of all? Is he so interested to see dramas here? Has he created Man only on earth? Or he has such creations in other earths also? After seeing this “suffering” drama and also by sending his son to suffer? Then removing all sin creating again, man sins, son comes, removes….haha what a fun? Gods must be crazy.
My question 2. Whether “Sathan” was here before the creation of the world or God created Satan?
Your answer 2: Satan and his evil angels had been sinning for very long time, before Adam and Eve were created.
My explanation 2: WHY? Why god is not bothered to reduce the sin of Satan but waging war against him? Why god is not asking to love and look at Satan with Sympathy? God wants a Villain so that viewers will be happy? Why god is bothered about only his human creation? Before that he would have corrected Satan. Next time when I see god, I will ask him to do that first.
My question 3.Why satan got as much power as god and are they twins?
Your answer 3:God is the Author of life, not death. He created Lucifer. Lucifer became Satan by his own rebellion (see Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28). He then instigated the rebellion of one-third of the angels who became demons (see Revelation 12). God created Adam who rebelled by sinning and led a parade of fallen humanity. Sin in the world is the result of God’s creation rebelling against Him. The Lord, however, remains both all powerful and completely good (see Jude 25: Exodus 34:6). Therefore, at any time, He could choose to say, “Enough is enough” and put a stop to all the activities of Satan as well as to all the activities of us sinful people–and one day He will. Until that Second Coming of Christ, however, we face the harsh reality that incredible evil and suffering abound in our world.
My explanation 3: So, god was not aware that Lucifer will become Satan? So god doesn’t know what is going to happen in the future? So how can god be all knowing? If by knowing that Lucifer is going to become Satan then
1. By creating Satan and making all of us to suffer, god should be hanged to death.
2. If he was unaware about this evolution of Lucifer to Satan, then god is not that powerful. He doesn’t know what is going to happen next.
My question 4.Bible is ofcourse one of the widely distributed “Pamphlet” free of cost. What is the sales per year? “Zero”???
Your answer 4: Don’t you think someone had to pay for the cost of the Bible or it’s pamphlet to distribute it free? It is not about profit my dear friend.
My explanation 4: If bible cannot arouse the interest in Human Being, then it is a failed book. The interest need not have to be sensual, It can be scientific, philosophical or ethical or political etc. There is a market for everything. If the above book doesn’t satisfy any of the above, then obviously there won’t be any buyers my dear sister.
My question 5: If you stop printing and distributing this from Vatican. I assure you, there won’t be anybody to buy that in 10 years from now. Because it doesn’t carry any content. No rationality other than “God said, God said”.
6. What is your bibile says about much older books called “Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Abhidhamma Sutta etc”? When your ancestors were making fire from stones, Indian were studying about the size of Mars and its characteristics.But, they failed in one front of making a “Thugs’ army” to counter the attacks of “Uncivilised people”.
Your answer 5&6:My Bible says, Jesus is the Son of God, that He is one with God, and that He was sent here for our salvation. In John 10:30.
Lol about my ancestors. Dude, even though I am the 3rd generation here in the US, I am an Indian Origin. Otherwise why would I come and read about Indian news in The Great Indian Mutiny?
My explanation 5&6: You didn’t answer not even by quoting your favourite bible. Bible is not talking about any other civilisation and it failed to understand people of other countries and dultures. OK, you are like Chacko, who says from India, and wants to see Cross on the top of RedFort? Is nothing but a traitor who fails to accept other culture and civilisation. This world requires all even “Adivasis/tribals” and their culture. Give them food and shelter if require, a good action. But, changing them to wear suit and coat, making a huge concrete church in the middle of the Forest, cutting off all medicinal shrubs, making roads which carries bible to them in the name of civilisation? I pity my sister. In kerala, Christians encroched all the forest and hilly area in the name of cultivation, ruined the culture of Tribals. Got all that land made in their name. Made tribals to runaway from there. Built huge Churches. You call it civilising? I call it greed. If Bible says to do so, no wonder, Hindus now trying to undo that violently. Eventhough I do not support that, I request you and your poisonous agenda to stop.
My question 7:Why your bible talking about one cause for all(I think including Satan). and not even mentioning about multiple causes for this world?
your answer 7: Read the answer to your question #11.
my explanation 7:Read my explanation to at question #11
My question 8: What are all the other books you read other than bible?
Your answer 8:Novels (drama, fiction comedy and thriller), Discover Magazine (Science, Technology and the Future), National Geography, I love to watch Food Network.
My questions 8: Have you read Qran? Bhagavatgita? Rigveda? Ashtavakropanishad? Abhidhamma Sutta? Pragnaparamita Sutta? Gurugrantha Sahib?
My question 9:Why the maximum “Psychic” cases are being reported from Christian countries? While other countries which follows and got much better medical facilities got far less such cases which follows other religions?
Your answer 9: I don’t understand the above question Rajeev.
My explanation 9: Maximum psychological disorders are being reported from so called developed American and European countries (even poor christian countries also). Those developed countries at Middle East, Japan, South Korea or other rich countries with different religious belief doesn’t have those many psychiatric problems. WHY? IS YOUR BIBLE GOT ANY ANSWER?
My question 10. Christ asked to love the neighbour. Have you got any idea why he said so? what if we go at night and kill him? Leave hell and heaven(As I know nobody came from hell/heaven to tell their experience till now. What is the implication in mind, society and evolution of the subtle reactivity? Is your bible capable to answer these?
Your answer 10: 1st part of the question, Love thy neighbor was, in part, Jesus’ answer when the Pharisees, the chief religious sect of that day, asked Him about the greatest commandment in the Law (See Matthew 22:36-40). These religious leaders had made almost an art form of classifying all the various laws and giving them relative degrees of importance, so in asking Jesus this question, their aim was to test Him. His answer stunned them: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments. Jesus was summing up all the law in these two statements. If we love the Lord God with all our heart, soul and mind, loving our neighbor is the natural result.
My explanation 10: Dear Sister, you failed even in understanding the reason behind that. How can one say to a society, which doesn’t want to accept Christ as a saviour to love your neighbour that is the actual love to your saviour???? All absurd. If he tells this only for his “Fans” then where is the relevance for those who is under the influence of “Satan”?. Christ told that for a different “mental therapeutic” effect. But, bible couldn’t capture even a part of it. That is the reason I say, Keep away the bible to see the actual greatness of “Christ”.
Your answer 10 Part 2: 2nd part of the question, Are you really asking me a question or saying some mumbo jumbo?
My answer 10 Part 2:Hope now my above argument appears with sense and not mumbo jumbo.
My question 11. Last question? Actually What is bible? HA HA HA.
Your answer 11: The Bible is the account of God’s action in the world and his purpose with all creation. The writing of the Bible took place over sixteen centuries and is the work of over forty human authors. It is a quite amazing collection of 66 books with very different styles all containing the message God desired us to have.
This compilation of booklets contains an astonishing variety of literary styles. It provides many stories about the lives of good and bad people, about battles and journeys, about the life of Jesus along with letters written to groups of Christians that met in homes. It comes to us in narratives and dialogues, in proverbs and parables, in songs and allegories, in history and prophecy.
The accounts in the Bible were not generally written down as they occurred. Rather they were told over and over again and handed down through the years before someone finally wrote them down. Yet the same themes may be found throughout the book.
So along with the diversity there is also a remarkable unity. So what is the Bible? Well, in addition to all the above, the Bible is this:
•It is a guide for living life to the full. It gives us a road map for the perilous journey of life. Or to put it another way, on our voyage through life’s ocean, we find our anchor right here.
•It is a storehouse of wonderful stories for children and grownups. Remember Noah and the ark? Joseph’s coat of many colors? Daniel in the lion’s den? Jonah and the fish? The parables of Jesus? In these stories we recognize the triumphs and failures of ordinary people – and we may even see ourselves!
•It is a refuge in trouble. People in pain, in suffering, in prison, in mourning, tell how they turned to the Bible and found strength there in their desperate hours.
•It is a treasury of insight as to who we are. We are not meaningless robots, but we are magnificent creatures of a God who loves us and gives us a purpose and a destiny.
•It is a sourcebook for everyday living. We find standards for our conduct, guidelines for knowing right from wrong, principles to help us in a confused society where so often “anything goes.”
And finally, thanks for your prayers. If you want to know more about Bible, please email me at mathewlisa@yahoo.com
My explanation 11: Jataka stories are better than the above stories. Why god created bad in first place to talk about bad. I don’t see only those read the bible lived their life fully. “Gandhiji”, “Hitler”, Karl Marx, and all those died lived their life fully before dying. Do not sing “Life’s ocean” and things like that. Ocean is different and life is different. Life is just a period between birth and death. Bible blinds the people like you to see the life as it is. It is a trouble by itself. “God” doesn’t exist as you think to save. If it was the case, he would have done that long back. He would not have left us to suffer like this. If he checks the quality of his own creation, then he is a saddist.
Keep the bible away, live the life fully. Love christ but not as a god’s son. But, a human being grown better than the people of that time. If you do not see the world without being tinted by the “red covered” book, your life will go futile.
With a lot of compassion,
Rajeev
March 14, 2007 at 12:51 am
Dont waste your time Rajeev. Lisa or the alias that someone has taken is brain dead, living ghost of a persohn. You might as well take a hammer and beat your brain to pulp. These people are well programmed puppets of their demented belief system which they call church. They dont deserve any words of wisdom or rationale. It’s a cult and you cannot change a cult. What else can you expect from people(educated surprisingly)who promote creationism over evolution and are perpetrators of misinformation that world was created in 6 days, world is 6000 years old,blah blah blah. They never know when to draw a line. Zealots,Bigots,maniacs are some words which describe lisa and her creed.Gosh,look at the insanity oozing from her writing. Anyways i am out of here.
March 14, 2007 at 3:35 am
Rajeev, you have the right to believe that God doesn’t exist. But me, Lisa Mathew pledge allegiance to the Christian flag and to the Savior, for whose Kingdom it stands, one Savior, crucified, risen, and coming again, with life and liberty for all who believe.
Many Christians made comments in this section and none of them mocked your religion or called any of you names. But you and many did mock the Bible and the Christian people. That is the difference between me (Christian) and you brother Rajeev.
One more thing, as far as evolution goes, the probability of a living cell spontaneously evolving by random chance from its component parts is so astronomically small that it could not possibly happen.
March 14, 2007 at 4:46 am
Lisa had you said the simple satements that you finally said, it would have saved zillion keystrokes.
Every one has right to believe and profess but not by ways adopted by the church.You live in a civilized world and should learn to coexist with others in an amicable social setup. Christians are responsible for misrepresenting their faith by resorting to unwarranted means for proselytization. Remember for you,your bible might be the start and end of your fantasy world. For others it could extremely irritable to hear regurgitation from source which one does not find credible to even the smallest extent.And yes finaly your not calling names or mocking just not provide any shred of evidence of your nobility or intellect.So there it is.
March 14, 2007 at 11:55 am
The South Asian subcontinent has a long and bloody religious history, and tensions run incredibly deep—and are imported to other continents through the diaspora.
The rise of Hindutva has given contemporary Hinduism two significant and pernicious strains:
The posturing of victimhood, and the notion that fundamentalism is resistance against the forces that would destroy Hindus.
These strains have fueled and justified the pogroms against religious minorities in India, and has also led to severe social conservatism that affects women, children and sexual minorities overwhelmingly.
There is fear of conversion among some people although it is also unclear how widespread this is or how widespread is any kind of pressure for conversion.
That fear exists is borne out by the following anecdote which may seem a bit strange to some but is nonetheless true.
A couple of years ago at University I spent a whole semester attending Islamic Society meetings just to broaden my outlook as I saw it. A Hindu freind was quite concerned warning me of the following
Muslims will try to convert me
Muslims practice black magic he had seen it for himself
they may use this magic to convert me by putting something in my drink
There was not even any whiff of trying to convert me when I went to the meetings. The Muslim students were friendly and just curious.
If someone offered me some money to change religion I’d happily accept. From a non-believer in one religion to a non-believer in another. nice little earner.
March 14, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Lisa Mathew Says:
March 14th, 2007 at 3:35 am
Lisa: Rajeev, you have the right to believe that God doesn’t exist.
Rajeev: Thank you. I thought I don’t have any right.
Lisa:But me, Lisa Mathew pledge allegiance to the Christian flag and to the Savior, for whose Kingdom it stands, one Savior, crucified, risen, and coming again, with life and liberty for all who believe.
Rajeev: Yes, the kingdom is coming not of Christ, but, of “Bush” with the support of “Pope”. It is liberty for those colonialists who again wanted to capture the wealth all over the world, make the poor to run for a cover. Throw bible all around to make a “Culture” impotent to respond.
Lisa: Many Christians made comments in this section and none of them mocked your religion or called any of you names. But you and many did mock the Bible and the Christian people. That is the difference between me (Christian) and you brother Rajeev.
Rajeev: I already told, I do not belong to any religion. I believe more towards “Buddhist” philosophy. That is the reason I understood “Christ” more than Christians. I never insulted christ. I made mockery of YOU who claim to be a christian, thinks spreading your religion and colonial belief is noble. Christ will never support this idea if he has not been “Crucified” by Christians. I admired Paul(a true christ follower). Living with all kind of people, respecting their belief are “In-built” in a true Indian. “Christians” acts on behalf of Vatican is not a “True Indian” who only thinks of converting others than co-existing with other beings. I did “Insulting” at the end when nothing else was working with you. Dear sister, to a sister, a brother can do that right??
Lisa: One more thing, as far as evolution goes, the probability of a living cell spontaneously evolving by random chance from its component parts is so astronomically small that it could not possibly happen.
Rajeev: Lisa, the above sentence calls for a wider discussion. But, quickly, Evolution is never spontaneous. It is not something suddenly changes to something else. Good begnning at least to come for an argument outside bible. Please take this up further than talking about “What christ told and didn’t tell” by taking examples from bible(an out dated pamphlet. Let us discuss “Quantum Mechanics”, at length. Leave the Vatican agenda aside. We can co-exist without changing our belief….isn’t it?
With a lot of compassion,
Rajeev
March 14, 2007 at 3:28 pm
Beating up, burning, killing and looting members of other communities simply has no justification in the spiritual handbook of Hinduism. Employing these tactics by Hindutva terrorists in the name of God or religion is tantamount to betraying Indian values.
I passionately believe that none of the ideas can be imposed upon anyone; they have to be allowed to happen by themselves. You cannot force people to change. You cannot manipulate changes of heart or mind. You cannot insist that Muslims and Christians accept the Hindu heritage. You cannot insist that they stop conversions. You cannot make them pay for what happened hundreds of years ago. Of course, you can try, as Narendra Modi and his band did in Gujarat. But have they succeeded?
They may have cowed down the minorities for the moment, but if there is anything calculated to alienate them, these recent riots are it. Is anyone likely to buy the concept of Hinduism after seeing its self-styled representatives (Sangh Parivar) at work? If the situation gets worse, the Christians and the Muslims may close ranks and keep a low profile or even be smoked out of the country, but as for opening their minds to Hinduism, not a snowball’s chance in hell. Like a bully or a dictator at work, the majority community can force compliance, but it can never win an allegiance to its values.
The votaries of Hindutva are therefore traitors to the very concept of Hinduism for the heart of its approach and the reason for its longevity is a limpid acceptance of all that is. Its fabled tolerance for differing ideas and religions is what has given it its syncretism.
One should try to transform not by torment, torture, murder and rape, but by love, compassion and a commitment for the welfare of the other. Is there anything even remotely approaching these qualities within the Hindutva terrorists?
Despite the presence of all the sadhus and sants (sages), the pujas and shilanyas (religious rituals), there is nothing even remotely Hindu or spiritual about the Hindutva movement.
I would listen to Vedic chants, revere the Vedas, etc., but no, I am not for Hindutva.
March 14, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Rajeev, I do live with lots of different religion/ethnic groups around me. Matter of fact, the company that I work for is like an International community. I only stated what I believe and answering your questions accordingly. That doesn’t make me a person who is forcing my religion on you or anyone else. All I said was as a Christian you are suppose to tell other people about Gospel but it is YOU who have to make the decision to follow or not. I will never ever support anyone converting people by force or money. When you said things like Bible failed etc., I simply told you otherwise (of course with proof) and I know it irritated the hell out of you (lol).
God bless you brother Rajeev.
March 15, 2007 at 10:32 am
Dear Lisa, We are all basically “compassionate”. Religion, philosophy, agenda imposed by cults or groups makes us blind and thinks others are not cultured and requires a Change of Religion and practice. The right way is to leave them for their evolution and taking care of our protection and helping the needy without any selfish motive of conversion, getting merit for this life or coming life or a place in heaven but as a duty since we are born with many facilities which is lacking to 90% of the world’s population. Raise the voice whenever we see “Killing Innocents” in whatever names. Understand the human life as a suffering. I don’t think any human will be interested to see a crying woman by sitting beside a deadbody of her child whether she is wearing “Burqua” or some other dress. But, when we see us as Muslim, Hindu or Christian, we loose that ability to see the pain. Some of us feel happy when people of other religion is in pain. If given a chance, I wanted to demolish all the mosques, churches, temples and put the images of gods in fire. Worship “Love and affection” all wisdom will be revealed by itself. That is the highest point of Spirituality. Not reading out passages from some books to calim mine is good and yours is bad. I had pain when I saw WTC got attacked, Mumabi Train blast, Tsunami problems. I have pain when I see people getting killed in Iraq, Afghanistan or else where. Let “Christ’s teaching emerge and his selfless love be visible to all” not “Pope”, Bible, Christian agenda, or Geroge Bush or the agenda derived out of their action and writing. I take a break “Let us pledge to protect all Animals, Birds, Tribals or poor etc without making them to loose their identity.Let them evolve by themself. Do not change anybody forcefully or taking the advantage of the situation. Which is cruel, calling for others also to take a stand and fight. WHY??, give a break to god as well. Let us be totally responsible for our action. Bye to all.
With a lot of compassion,
Rajeev
March 15, 2007 at 4:20 pm
well, non believer that is non Christians, hindoos may be 666 are in india, are very much affraid and in fear that, 2.6% Christian and Missioneries will cover the country and boot them out and put Jesus Christ Cross on the balcony of Red fort. How stupid the are. They should think and remember, very fortunitely Christians were arrived in India and did all good and taught civic manner and stablished educational Institutions, so people can talk and have gentle dress,otherwise they were all illitarate & naked earlier.
They should respect Christianity and protect the Bible.
March 15, 2007 at 8:33 pm
First and foremost Mr neo convert Ghosh, 2.6 % xian, you make me cringe in pain. If it were that i would be happy but sad fact is that the parsites are more than that. These 2.6% plus parasites can go out of india and we would take care of the nakedness and illiteracy.As far as respecting and protecting your fantasy world, we dont care a crap chute about you and your bible.You wrote crap and you would get crap flung all over your face and even more.Learn to talk sense and hear sense.
March 16, 2007 at 2:23 pm
The evil practice of casteism has come to dominate hinduism for so many centuries. It is mainly because of the evil urge in man to feel superior to his own brother. This kind of urge comes due to social insecurity.
Social insecurity is borne out of spiritual hollowness. Hinduism has failed to meet the spiritual needs of India. Just look at the case of Kerala. Casteism is rampant. Hindus live by the “grace” of astrologers and tantrics. It is going back to the mental asylum that Swami Vivekananda once saw. Movies try to potray as if only one caste (nair) lives in kerala. If a nair produces a movie he makes sure only nairs work in it. So is the case in the industry. If a nair gets a job he does his best to ensure that other castes do not work peacefully there. How can such a society make any progress ? Only one movement countered this – Sree Narayana movement. Even that is dying today. Today only casteism rules in kerala. God please save this land – God’s own country – from from getting transformed into a hell on earth.
March 16, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Mr.Chekavar,
Ironically it is the same ‘Casteism’ that made you learn the word secularism.Look at America or any rich European country;only a Christian can become the President or prime misnister!Is that the case with India?Think again.
Also,if you think casteism is bad,look around you.The diverse and the multi cultural vibrant India is a result of this Casteism only.If there was no Casteism in Hinduism,we would have been like the crsaders killing,raping,looting,colonising and destroying civilizations like the Europeans(read Christians).The same Nairs whom you blame are born Shudras but elevated to higher class just with their abilities(no reservations in the name of appeasement).don’t be childish to complain about movies and industry environments.I think you are another missionary brain-washed Hindu,like Mr.Ghosh of previous post.May God put some wisdom in your brains!
March 17, 2007 at 2:19 am
What kind of elevation to Nairs (from Brahminical Varnashrama Dharma)due to their own their own abilities? Without reservation and appeasement to Nairs? To whom you are trying to fool around? If you don’t know the history of the Shudra Nairs and their agitation against Brahmins, read it from here.
http://www.kerala.gov.in/history&culture/emergence.htm
http://www.keralahistory.ac.in/radicalpolitical.htm
Now, the so called “Elevated Nairs” become Brahmins of Kerala. Another Shudra class known as “Ezhavas” elevated to Semi Brahmin status. Dalits in Kerala are sidelined by upper caste bluff masters who is corrupted our social and civil life from bottom to the top.
http://www.countercurrents.org/communalism-sreekumar091004.htm
March 18, 2007 at 12:04 am
Mr. Unni,
It is amusing that a grown up like you can be tricked into thinking that men and women hating each other in the name of caste can create a “vibrant India”. Just think about it some more and you will see my point. Casteism is an evil inhuman practice. Period.
There is no casteism in China, Japan and many other asian countries. Communities(castes) are natural. But casteism is not. That is one caste hating or trying to oppress another is not natural. It is evil and it is this I call “casteism”.
March 18, 2007 at 12:23 am
Mr. Unni,
Mr. Unni,
Btw, I didn’t quite understand “same Nairs whom you blame are born Shudras”. I never made any remarks on the origins of the nair community. I think you don’t quite understand the meaning of words “brahmin”, “shudra” etc. Please read the teaching of some of the enlightened masters and you will know that one is shudra by his nature not by his birth.
March 18, 2007 at 8:52 am
Dear Friends/Mr.Chacko
Please visit the following link and hear Mrs Sasikala Teacher’s stirring speach.
http://www.haindavakeralam.org/speach/speach1.mp3
March 18, 2007 at 10:56 am
Achu Says:
March 18th, 2007 at 8:52 am
Dear Friends/Mr.Chacko
Please visit the following link and hear Mrs Sasikala Teacher’s stirring speach.A MUST HEAR SPEACH
http://www.haindavakeralam.org/speach/speach1.mp3
March 18, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Government of India has no money neither do they have expertise or inclination to help the needy, mostly a section of Hindu society
already abandoned by Brahmin crooks and left to fend for themselves in slums, sewers and jungles. It is the love of Christian missionaries that sustains these forgotten Hindus.
What do RSS teach in their shakhas to save these poor Hindus ? How to start a fire by rubbing two sticks? Or instruct their BOYS ONLY scouts how to tie a knot?
The UN has predicted, by 2010 India will have 20-25m cases of AIDS patients, the largest concentration of HIV patients in this planet earth.
RSS Khakhi brigade should start to wear condoms instead of all those fancy drill and leave the poor hindus to exercise their own freedom.
Christian charities, Churches, hospitals, schools, colleges, medical colleges,
social and non political institutions of international repute work hard to reach the poor of all faiths.
Christian charities are recognized by the
government of India under very strict scrutiny that involves rigid standards and constant supervision, bureaucratic dominance, graft ridden channels and plethora of rules and regulations.
If the conspiracy theory of Christian missionaries holds up in the court, I seriously doubt that, why can’t these losers sue the hell out of the Christian institutions of repute? They shall get adequate government backing and the problem would be solved legally and honorably.
March 18, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Mr.Chekavar
The very sentence which you made in your original post – “Hinduism has failed to meet the spiritual needs of India.” makes me laugh,especially in a scenario where the whole world looks upon India for spiritual guidance!Stripping ‘Ohm’ out of Yoga does not make it Western,for it is a Hindu spiritual technique for attaining the Supreme,regardless of caste & creed.Now Keralites going to astrologers could be due to their lack of knowledge in Hinduism.I don’t know whether such actions have got something to do with casteism,as I know that most of these traditional astrologers are from backward class.Christians in India too have started casteism,otherwise they wouldn’t have asked for reservations!Even marriages between traditional Christians & dalit Christians do not take place in Kerala.
If you don’t want to believe that India is multi-cultural or vibrant,it’s your problem.However,Iam definitely sure that it is not like Saudi Arabia ,or Europe where ‘tan’ is still a taboo(Poor Shilpa Shetty!Wondering which one is worse;Biblical racism or Hindu casteism!Let’s debate.)
Now let me try to find out this.How many times have you been subjected to casteism or oppression(at work?It could be jealousy,when you are too good at something)?Or,how many times have you subjected someone else to casteism?If your answer is many times,then Iam sure that you are one among those highly unlucky chaps or too annoying(say obnoxious) to be included in any group!If you had very bad ancestors who committed attrocities over poor people,or if there were some other bad people who committed attrocities on your forefathers,don’t blame our Hinduism or We Hindus for it.
China Japan,West do not have cast system.If it was the other way round,Iam sure all the progressive thinkers would have rallied for cast system!The problem with us is being Indian,I guess.Iam a doctor,so I married a doctor and I would want my kids to be doctors.Not sure Iam starting a ‘cast of doctors’ by myself!If so please forgive me for doing that heinous crime!
You are right,one is Shudra by his nature,not by birth.His thoughts and actions make him a brahman(meaning one who attains brahma).
-Thanks
March 18, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Mr. Unni,
I am not sure if the whole world knows much about the spiritual development of India. A spiritually developed person is honest, loving, compassionate about his fellow beings and knows or sincerely seeks God.
Now just look at the society around you. You will hardly find anybody who fits the above description. India is one of the most corrupt countries on earth. People here will do anything for money. Indian administration is one the most corrupt. One cannot start a business here as you have to pay bribe to hundreds of officers at different levels. Look at the politicians. They will do anything to stay in power. The movies stars will utter any filthy language or expose any of their special parts to make a movie a hit. Just look at the people working in your office. They make false bills(medical, travel etc.) every year to claim tax refunds or to get extra money they are not actually entitled to. So from the politician to the man sitting next to you in the office is downright corrupt.
So much for Indian spiritual “enlightenment” eh ? Perhaps you haven’t travelled that much. Just visit places like Japan, Singapore etc. and you will realize how different and “human” people are. How can corrupt, dishonest people be called spiritual ?
March 18, 2007 at 9:10 pm
Thanks Achu for the link!
Dear Chekavar,
I agree that “a spirituality enlightened person is honest, loving, compassionate about his fellow beings”,but does not necessarily seek GOD or his blessings,because the God himself descends to such a person!(Let’s leave the God alone-he himself is in deep trouble over many issues like fathering,traiting,dead-sea scrolls etc. etc.).
Your detailed list of wrong-doings ‘observed around is enchanting’.I understand you have been to many places,but have not worked closely with outsiders.Otherwise you wouldn’t have made such complaints on fake bills which is a common thing of employees all around the world.If there is a fund alloted for your well being, then there is nothing wrong in grabbing it.You are not going to hell because of that(Well,if you think it is wrong,please don’t do it).
Let’s try to find out why there is corruption in our society.Is it because of the religion one follows or due to some other socio-economic problems?Are the corrupt people only from Hinduism(you seem to be thinking so)?.I would suggest you to watch the movie ‘Gangs of New York.It’s no fairy tale-it’s the history of New York in the 1800s.You will come to know how corrupt the society was then!Iam sure we are also going to rectify our faults.May be we are born in the wrong time!
We know that most of the Afican nations have rich mineral resources, from Diamonds to Pertoleum,but the people are still in abject poverty and face corruption.
These are not caste based societies,infact Christian dominated.Africans are as able as any other human race!So what could be the reason for such a bad plight?Definitely not Hinduism!So stop pointing your fingers at Hinduism for everything that is going wrong in India.You are free to have your own perversions,but I do not want you to tarnish our religion with that.
-Thanks Unni
March 19, 2007 at 12:05 am
Xians like parmeshwar who do not have the balls to reveal their true identity would obviously speak for their bretherens.Yeah right, we sure should be thankful to these missionary zealots.Xians are expansionist who are driven by their misplaced zeal to spread their gospel no matter what levels they have to stoop to. Are you indian xians hinting that you actually are siding with these degenerates?If so then hindus would have to take a different stance on the whole situation.You think opening churches in places where you dont have even one xian soul,does not give your motive away.Hindus have been very accomodative.Eat this.Your demented workers distribute pamphlets in front of schools,our temples. We give you the freedom to do so.Dont think for one moment that the govt. grants you that right. No we grant you that right.If we take these distributions stick it up where the sun does’t shine, you can contest that in courts and best of luck with that.You should be more diplomatic.You know what the unwritten rule is : Dont mess with the majority.Chacko the whacko with his empty rhetorics about brotherhood and division seems to have forgotten the fact that people sense the underlying agenda held by him and the other xians.So give it a break. Your deception and bigotry is written on the walls throughtout the annals of history and you cannot change that.Well, you would if you could.Isn’t that what xianity is all about?Suppress sensibility and reasoning.
March 19, 2007 at 1:33 am
HaindavaKeralam’s saffron agenda is to systematically spreading hatred against religious minorities as a prelude to violence in left inclined Kerala. This website is part of their burgeoning hate industry. Citizens and activists need to be on a constant alert as regards hate speech and writing at these websites. Over the years it created a breed of self styled intellectuals like Rajeev Srinivasan as the Internet has no means of checking the credentials of “experts” and “intellectuals”.
Sections 153A and 153B, of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) oblige the state to prosecute those guilty of such hate crimes. The articles published or distributed on this website violate S.153-A, 153-B, 505(1) and (2) of the Indian Penal Code. Section 295 of the CrPC is also a section that can be invoked whenever there are deliberate attempts to disrupt communal harmony.
Kerala Police or their cyber wing don’t have the will to initiate any charges against such cyber crimes. In fact, http://www.haindavakeralam.org is the official web portal of Kerala’s Hindutva army. It is regularly updated by RSS media men who are on the payroll of Daily Pioneer, PTI, New Indian Express, Kaumudi, AsianetGlobal.COM, The Hindu and Times of India. It also publish interviews with RSS addicted civil servants of Kerala. It proves the expanded nature of RSS links with kerala civil service. Fearing litigation, Kerala RSS use a bogus spanish address for this website. Find it here.
http://www.pir.org/Search/WhoIsSearchResults.aspx?txtWhoIsSearch=haindavakeralam
Like IPC, Indian Cyber Laws are exclusively designed to harass poor and marginalized of the society.
http://www.naavi.org/importantlaws/itbill2000/index.htm
Read Anti Terrorism and Security Laws in India, A comprehensive study by New York City Bar Association
http://nycbar.org/pdf/ABCNY_India_Report.pdf
Remember, RSS is better known as Rumour Spreading Society!
March 19, 2007 at 8:06 am
Dear friends,
hope most of you have listened to Sassikala Teacher’s thought provoking speach in Malayalam.Those who who has’nt listened ,kindly do it now.You will get blunt answers for most of the points being debated in this blog.
Achu
Achu Says:
March 18th, 2007 at 8:52 am
Dear Friends/Mr.Chacko
Please visit the following link and hear Mrs Sasikala Teacher’s stirring speach.A MUST HEAR SPEACH
http://www.haindavakeralam.org/speach/speach1.mp3
March 19, 2007 at 12:11 pm
Hey Menachari,so you are in denial of the truth. Yeah right RSS is what you have understood and all the xian orgs are godsend. No body is spreading hatred.Dont try to blind people as usual. You are an xian and are in denial of your bretherens actions. Awareness is different from hatred. Yes awareness can lead to hatred. The awareness among hindus is sounding warning bells to a lot of xian establishment and that is why these dubious orgs are out to stifle speech under the false reason of hate mongering.Come on guy, give up your treachery and deception.Attack the root cause and root cause is not RSS, it is not the website, it is not the hindus who are resentful of the missionaries,but the demented moron missionaries and their supporters. Your denial and slandering of RSS does not make your case any stronger but only highlights your folly.haindavakeralam is an informative site for every hindu as it puts the spot light on the missionary zeal to decimate our religion. It is not a hatred spreading site but a informational site. It is not inciting hindus to rise up in arms against bigoted individuals,it is just tabling the facts much to the chagrin of the deceptive souls. If haindavakeralam is associated with RSS or VHP even better as it shows that hindus are coming together now and id not then probably it should be asociated. You cannot run amuck in our country and decimate our religion and culture.
March 19, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Aand if the xian ever took control of our country’s media, god help poor hindus.They would choke the life out of hindus.It is imperative that our media,our schools,our universities, our political setup remains outside the reach of these zealots.If history is any evidence we have seen the track record of xian once they reach a critical mass.I mean come on guys your pope speak is “harvest heathen soul”.I mean is this guy living in some dark ages or what? Have you guys heard of yeshu durbar?Yes it is a new experimentation of xian zealots of illiterates. Promises of miracle healing and mystical,magical cures. Yeah the last pope died of parkinsons and these people are out to deceive the poor and illiterates on promise of miracle cure.Some promise indeed
March 19, 2007 at 3:05 pm
Parameswar JesusJi,
We Hindus have no problem in donning condoms!Everyone knows well ‘who exactly is against Condoms & birth-controls’.Hope we have enough orphanages by the side of churches!You stop worrying about us.
RSS indeed made a mistake – they should have taught your forefathers how to use a condom.Perhaps we would have saved ourselves from scums like you.
The christian society in the west is doomed to death not by any external influence,but only by problems within itself(like gay marriage,incest,live in relationships etc.).In a way,these are the resentments against church and the Bible ,a will for the people to do everything against the tachings.
March 21, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Hi,
Dear Chacko,chekavar,parameswar Esuji,
Did u listen to Sasikala Teacher’s speach?Would like to know ur logical comments on her speach?
Achu
March 23, 2007 at 6:19 pm
Dear Unni,
How can you say that Hinduism has nothing to do with the hindu society of today ? Religion is the core of our lives. We share a bond with God that is more intimate than that we have with our relatives. Now the job of religion is to make us understand this truth (it should sink into our very hearts). Then only can a society thrive and people live a truly rich and peaceful life.
Now I am not saying that other religions have been less or more successful than Hinduism. No I am not comparing. But either something is very wrong with Hinduism or with its followers or both. Its followers have more faith in Tantric rituals, astrologers, money power, political power and even blackmagic. Very few will trust that tomorrow God will look after them come what may. That they are God’s children. So instead of comparing, try to think how we can improve the hindu society. How can a hindu fall in love with God. How can a hindu live a peaceful life on this very earth. How can a hindu purify himself so that he develops qualities like compassion for fellow beings. Think about these.
Today the state of a hindu is such that if he has 10 lakhs in hand he will offer 1 lakh to a temple to say thanks to the deity and also to ask for more. Does he ever think of the poor brethren he has ? The hindu of today does business with God himself !
I didn’t quite get the last part “free to have your own perversions”. May be you can elaborate.
March 28, 2007 at 11:26 am
All formal religions are mass control techniques based on bullshit.This is more so in the case of “book” based religions where a human artifact is allegedly the words of some spooky dude up in the sky. The moment someone uses ‘faith’ to justify an argument hanging on air your antenna should go up. I see jokers here either ranting about ‘a bond with god’ or indulging in unbridled personal attacks. I suggest a hearing of George Carlins classic piece “There is no god” to both sides of this useless dabate. IAC freedom of speech is more important than any “hate speech”. Atanu Dey has this nice piece in his blog that says it better than i probably can.
http://www.deeshaa.org/2007/03/26/why-free-speech/
March 30, 2007 at 6:29 am
Hindhus are known for being tolerant of other religions. Christianity is known for making fun of and belittling other religions. I’m sure, Chacko, that if a group of people said that Christianity was demonic and evil and that you and your family members will burn in eternal damnation, that you wouldn’t like it very much either.
March 30, 2007 at 6:35 am
Also, I’m sure that if that same group of people, who also believe that fire-breathing dragons existed (because their holy book says so), said that you and your religion are Satanic, and that it spread the words of Satan, the ultimate evil, that wouldn’t like that very much as well.
March 30, 2007 at 7:01 am
Exodus 22:20: “He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.”
Isn’t mentioning the genocide of non-Christians, a form of hate speech?
Psalms 79:6: “Pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name.”
Don’t you think that calling for the genocide of all those who follow other religions outside of Christianity, might be a form a hate speech?
John 8:44: “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
Here Yeshua (aka Jesus) says that those who don’t follow him are sons of Satan. Don’t you think that calling those you don’t follow Yeshua, the son’s of Satan might inspire some hate?
1 Corinthians 10:20-21 “But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils.”
Here Paul writes that Gods of other religions are demons.
Don’t you think that saying that the Gods of other religions are demons might create some religious intolerance?
1 Thessalonians 2:14-15: “…ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men.”
Don’t you think that a passage the says Jews killed the Son of Jehova, might create some anti-semitism?
Might some of these passages be characterized as hate speech?
March 30, 2007 at 6:40 pm
Dear Friends, The website ‘christianaggression.org’ its showing the fact what is happening in india, i am from bangalore, i seen my self how these people are spearding in india.
Once a christian man came to my home started teaching u know what stupidity he preached. He explained his religion first, then he started saying people who converted into christians r very happy, have no disease, they r very rich. Ok i dont care what he says suddenly he saw Ganesha photo and he said don’t believe this god it has no power and its a piece of paper. So i got angry i scold him i sent him outside of my home.
Like this many people are doing in sake of money. Shame to the people who doing this.
I seen my Christian people r showing attraction by saying if u convert into christain v well give u a home or land, or money. i have proof.
Please these things are really happening in India. Please don’t destroy Indian culture.
And in Thirupathi same problem happening, they want to remove hindus friom that place and want to destory the temple and tried to construct a chruch in one of the 7 hills which belongs to the Thirupathi temple.
I have the proof on that. In this replies so stupid member r trying to file a case on that website one thing be sure the site contains full of fact u can’t do anything to India’s Hindu religion and culture.
First be a perfect indian don’t sell u soul for just some piece of money. Proud to be indian and as a hindu.
JAI HIND, BARATH MATHA KI JAI.
March 31, 2007 at 3:22 am
interesting artle you’ve got there.
April 2, 2007 at 3:13 am
A correction:
On my comment #241, Dated March 30, 2007
I meant to say:
Also, I’m sure that if that same group of people, who also believe that fire-breathing dragons existed (because their holy book says so), said that you and your religion are Satanic, and that it spread the words of Satan, the ultimate evil, “then you” wouldn’t like that very much as well.
April 9, 2007 at 12:23 am
If you have such a big dick, why rat out to the “authorities”?
April 11, 2007 at 10:54 pm
Dear Mark,
Your drivel was quite rude even though you make some valid points.
April 13, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Just a few points for some of our misguided Hindu RSS pals :
1. You claim missionaries are evil & are involoved in “forced conversions” ???
- So spreading the good word of the Bible in a peaceful & amicable way…uplifting, enlightening the poor dalits about their rights, financially, socially and educationally helping India’s oppressed ( vs the 5000 odd years of hindu Brahmin tyranny)is evil ??? I guess the recent incident of the Brahmin Bhagat burning and killing a Dalit young woman just because she did not want to lend him money (in Bhandara, Maharastra) just a few days back is good right ?
Oh and by “forced conversions”…Do you mean that Christian men and woman are armed with Ak 47’s, Bazookas, Uzi sub machine guns, shotguns and grenades to force the hindus to convert ?
yeah right I can juz picturise a X’ian preacher holding a dalit at gun point and barking out orders “OK-CONVERT” ! ( hint : sarcasm)
2. Did you ever stop for a while and just ponder that it is the dalits themselves who rather prefer converting into a Buddhist, Muslim or Christian as compared to living as a perpetual underdog at the mercy of cruel and disgusting upper castes who commit ( & have been committing) innumerable atrocities ( this was even a major story covered in the Nat Geo mag 2003). Did it ever occur to you that any Dalit converts because it is in his/her own self interest ?
3. I agree, no religion or political entity is perfect ! But, if Christian westerners are so bad and evil, then why is it that most of you RSS/VHP type of fruitckes prefer , or might I say ..Die ( fight tooth n nail) to get to the west. The very fact that X’ian Britishers, Portuguese and to a small extent french ( a la Pondicherry) built up modern India from its dark ages, the very fact that most upper caste even BJP leaders prefer and line up to educate their kids in a convent school as compared to a Gurukul…the vast scientific, technological, economical etc innovations and contribution…including financial help provided by the Christian charities, fundraisers, Universities and western Judeo X’ian based govts..speaks volumes.
Whenever I see posts writen by Hindu Upper caste Indians thriving in the Christian west and yet criticizing it…I see a classical display of hypocrisy to its worst !
The Judeo X’ian world never needed nor do we ever need Hindus, but vice versa, Hindu India and Indians have always directly or indirectly needed our help…ever since the Anglican Church and its East India company set up base at Kolkata 300 years back. That is a fact !
Thank you and have a nice day.
April 13, 2007 at 11:01 pm
Your post Newton was excellent. How very true. Its easy to blame everyone. But when someone shows you the mirror, even a faint introspection can hurt. Its about time we Brahmins look at our own faults. I will take this oppurtunity to apologize to all the Dalits and other oppressed minorities whom we have transgressed. And yes, the contributions of the Christians to our land, especially the Roman Catholics is priceless, from Gregor Johan Mendel ( an Austrian Catholic priest)- the father of modern genetics to the 365 day Gregorian calender we follow today and last but not least Guttenberg’s Catholic press from which modern books, printed media etc has its roots. I am a big fan of notable catholic families like Henry Ford, founder of Ford motors, the Kennedies, Arnold Schwarznegger, Governor of calif. where I work, rock bands with prominent catholics such as Mel Gibson,Pierce Brosnan, Bon Jovi and the Beatles and our own very Mother Teresa. I finished my alma mater at the St Josephs convent school, Panchgani..a prestigious and elite hill station school. Lets all work to create a prosperous and peaceful world in accordance with the divinity of the Vedanta.
April 14, 2007 at 10:38 pm
Thank you Vidya for your kind reply. To be frank, I do have a rather good opinion on Hinduism and hindus ( they ‘re peaceful and tolerant for the most part). Hinduism does offer some great Philosophical insights much like Christianity and buddhism. However orgs like RSS, VHP etc are a big Joke. They’re senseless hypocrites who are quite ready to sell even their own kith and kin at the drop of a hat ! They are the ones that suck !
April 15, 2007 at 11:35 am
Hi guys,
Just stumbled upon this site when I google searched for the indian mutiny revolt ( 1857).My name is Henrik from Germany and am currently in India doing a Thesis project in biotechnology for the third world.
Sadly, I do notice a couple of posters with a very anti Christian attitude. I don’t mean to be rude. But since many of you all ( esp. the Brahmin caste hindus) are settled or are living and working in Christian secular states like USA, and EU nations. Why do you bear this animosity towards our Liberal Judeo Christian based cultures.
I mean on one hand as a poster above has so rightly pointed : most Brahmins try and always ( if not in each n every case) for the most part educate themselves in Christian missionary schools and elite convent schools- I know this for a fact, goto just about any such Christian school, and hey presto most of the students and their parents who pick them up after school are predominantly Brahmins and other so called upper castes ! Besides, whenever there is even a small chance, most such Hindus don’t hesitate a moment to utilize every help they get from the Christian west in the form of Christian charities, funds, financial help via different agencies, the world bank, UN loans and countless private trusts from Churches , secular non profit orgs etc from the west.
I could take more than a week or so sitting nonstop on this comp. typing the countless inventions, ideas and numerous contributions in just about any field which is derived from our ideal Judeo Christian cultures. My country Germany, the UK, Italy, France and USA top the list of inventors, Scientists and Mathematicians etc. Ofcourse ( Orthodox Christian-communist cultures like Russia and even ancient Greece were notable too). Even the computer and internet from which you spew your anti Christian, anti western venom is a Christian western man’s invention ! Don’t you forget that !
If many of you all are so ingrained with your pagan Hindu ideas and primitive superstitious beliefs such as female infanticide, shiva sexual based cults like worshipping a Linga !( man’s Phallus), a cow or some other semi homosapien semi animal “God” like hanuman, nag etc…please go ahead ! I mean you can’t have it both ways… Don’t be a hypocrite !
All you need to do is get out of the west, return back to India, work hard to improve your lot there. And yep, stop using all our allopathic medicine/ surgery ( go back to Ayurveda), avoid modern Engineering ( revert back to Vedic Mathematics and stuff, don’t wear western clothes….you can be better off without ‘em. Use a Lungi, Dhoti, Sari etc…and last but not least educate your kids in a Gururkul ( so that they can be better enlightened the rest of their lives by chanting sloakas and reciting mantras !)…I’m sure you all don’t need the western modern education and enlightenment from us “inferior” Christian westerners from a Convent school. And, Oh those evil missionaries ??? Well, give back all the funding and financial help they’ve provided to your lot in the form of charity. Besides, if you all need funding and charity you always have the RSS and VHP or Sang Parivar to rely on right ?
And oh my, Sonia Gandhi- a practicing Catholic Italian lady ruling India with her adorable Catholic kids Priyanka and Rahul ! Well, get rid of her and take in Uma Bharati instead- now what a fine, educated and cultured lady , right ?
Dank !