Sanskrit gets a new spokesperson in Professor Dean Brown, an eminent Theoretical Physicist, cosmologist, philosopher and Sanskrit scholar, whose translation of the Upanishads was published by the Philosophical Research Society. The following is a very interesting interview where Professor Dean Brown brings about an interesting co-relation of Sanskrit & Physics
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ush_thinking-allowed-sanskrit-tradition
[Duration: 23:28 |Taken: 04 June 2006 | Location: Israel]
Prof. Dean Brown points out that most European languages can be traced back to a root language that is also related to Sanskrit – the sacred language of the ancient Vedic religions of India. Many English words actually have Sanskrit origins. Similarly, many Vedic religious concepts can also be found in Western culture. He discusses the fundamental idea of the Upanishads – that the essence of each individual, the atman, is identical to the whole universe, the principle of brahman. In this sense, the polytheistic traditions of India can be said to be monistic at their very core.
While it might be considered a forgotten language in India, globally Sanskrit has found many takers. The American Sanskrit Institute was founded 18 years ago with a vision to spread “the ease and joy of learning Sanskrit through an immersion experience, the enjoyment of making the sounds, fluently reading the original Devanagari script, and directly reading, chanting and understanding sacred literature.”The Indological department, University of Bonn Germany conducts various courses and study programs.
While the world is waking up to Sanskrit – the divine language, where are we in terms of preserving the world’s oldest known tongue?
Cross posted here
February 10, 2007 at 1:21 am
Sanskrit is an Indo-European language, just like Latin, Greek, and English are Indo-European languages. This means that they are all descended from a common language: Proto-Indo-European.
Sanskrit is not the mother of European languages, as you claim. Sanskrit and Latin are sister languages, descended from the same mother – Proto-Indo-European.
February 11, 2007 at 6:54 am
Proto-Indo-European language is a fictional name. Nobody knows if such a language ever existed. For all we know, everything might have originated from sanskrit.
April 28, 2009 at 7:19 pm
Do you know that languages change and get transformed over a period of time? There is much scholarship on the Indo-European languages and there is a family tree and their relationships between each other. In that case, why not the other way? Why stops me from saying that Latin is the mother of Sanskrit? Proto-Indo-European is name given to a language which might have been the mother of Indo-European family. The language was not called Proto-Indo-European. Your statement that is a fictional name is meaningless.
August 24, 2009 at 9:39 am
Latin cant be the mother of sanskrit because even modern history(West historians) agreed that king Ashoka(Wikipedia) in India existed from 304 BC to 232 BC and that period latin was in its primitive form but sanskrit was an established languge.
Please before comenting keep your mind free from pride and prejudice and put youself above from any racial feelings.
February 12, 2007 at 8:50 pm
Many people have studied Indo-European languages and reconstructed Proto-Indo-European. Its existence accounts for all the difference among the Indo-European languages. This is a generally accepted theory. If you don’t believe it, fine – but be aware that you need more proof than just “it might not have existed.”
http://www.bartleby.com/61/8.html
Also, you are misrepresenting Dean Brown’s views: he did not say that Sanskrit is the mother of Indo-European languages.
February 13, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Well, in that case you simply need to listen to the interview once again.
Cheers
February 13, 2007 at 11:09 pm
OK, I see how you could get that impression from what Dean Brown says:
“English, Russian, Icelandic, Greek, are all dialects of a mother tongue that’s spoken widely in India and many parts of the world.”
“Most of the words in English, say, go back either through the Teutonic, northern European, Icelandic route (root?), to the uh Sanskrit, Vedic, and then through the Mediterranean route, the Romance route.”
These quotes don’t make any sense. He makes it sound like the “mother tongue” is spoken widely in India, which is wrong.
The second quote makes it sound like English words came from Icelandic, which came from Sanskrit, which in turn came from Latin. This is wrong.
He says that “om” is the root of “human” and “humble” – there is no evidence of this as far as I know.
His connection of “sutra” and “suture” is correct – both are descended from Proto-Indo-European “syu-”.
He says Sanskrit “ritam” (?) is the origin of English “right”. This is wrong. “right” is from Proto-Indo-European “reg-”, and is cognate with “rajah” and “raita”.
He says “practical” and “act” are from Sanskrit – this is wrong. “practical” is from Greek “prassein” and “act” is from Proto-Indo-European “ag-”.
He connects “theory”, Latin “deus”, and Sanskrit “deva” – this is wrong. “theory” is from Greek “thea”. “deus” and “deva” are both from Proto-Indo-European “dyeu-”.
Again, the view that Sanskrit is the ancestor of Indo-European languages is not a view that historical linguists take seriously. Personally I trust the historical linguists, the experts, rather than the word of a non-linguist.
July 25, 2009 at 8:22 pm
i want to say you mr.john that you may not be aware of this fact that many ages ago thats the age before any civilisations were emerging the whole world was based on a single culture,a single language thats sanskrit……it would be facinaing to know that the city london is a sanskrit word not only the the word “hour” is also derived from sanskrit word “hora”…..and even the word “brain” is also derived from two sanskrit words “brahma” nd “shira”…….the vedas were the books thet people at that time followed but according to the book which i have read “the world vedic heritage” all the people were together with same culture and language but after the war of mahabarat which was a nuclear war at that time was sooo drastic the people migrated and settled in different areas and created their own culture still you can find many similarities between hinduism and all other religions you would be shocked to know that even islam has many similarites for example the word “namaz” is derived from sanskrit from two words “nama” “yaja” which means to bow and pray………..i would suggest all of you to read the book and know thats the truth…………………
August 24, 2009 at 11:32 am
priti y u peoples want to manipulate the the facts to say that the religion or belief in which u are born is the only truth
and all other beliefs are wrong/or less greater than yours.
you said something about namaz actually its not a word from arabic or not even used in islamic veda (quran) or any other islamic related sources.instead its the word is “salah”
and namaz is just used in terms of prayer/salah only by the peaople in india,pakistan and bangladesh
especially from urdu speaking community amongst these….
September 11, 2009 at 3:32 am
Hi, Glad 2 know about name of the book you mentioned and even about the word namaz. But Mr. doooms does’nt know about the fact that the language ‘Urdu’ is originally derived from Sanskrit, and other like persian, arabic and which also again comes from Indo-Europian i.e SANSKRIT. Ya He is correct that the word used Salah is for praying only but by Arabs. So he needs a reality check.
November 2, 2009 at 11:41 am
Please read “The True History and the Religion of India” or visit http://www.thevedicfoundation.org/valuable_resources/Sanskrit-The_Mother_of_All_Languages_partI.htm
February 15, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Sure one can dismiss Prof Dean Brown’s work and knowledge as that of the word of a non-linguist. But it would hold good in a discussion only when you have something as substantial as having translated The Upanishads behind you.
>>John: These quotes don’t make any sense. He makes it sound like the “mother tongue” is spoken widely in India, which is wrong
They sure make sense. Sanskrit was widely spoken in India during the vedic age and every language spoken in India today has its roots in Sanskrit.
The Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) is the “hypothetical” common ancestor of the Indo-European languages. Whereas, the sound of each of the 36 consonants and the 16 vowels of Sanskrit are fixed and precise since the very beginning. It was never changed, altered, improved or modified. So all the words of the Sanskrit language always had the same pronunciation as they have today. There was never any sound shift or change in the pronunciation of any word in the history of the Sanskrit language. The reason is its absolute perfection by its own nature and formation, because it was the first language of the world.
More over here – http://www.encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org/articles/23_the_speculation_of.htm
February 15, 2007 at 8:53 pm
“Sanskrit was widely spoken in India during the vedic age and every language spoken in India today has its roots in Sanskrit.”
No, India is also home to Dravidian languages and Sino-Tibetan languages that are not related to Sanskrit.
That article is completely inaccurate – change is an observed fact of all languges. Of course Sanskrit changed. Sanskrit changed into the modern Indo-Aryan languages, such as Hindi-Urdu, Gujarati, Panjabi, etc.
There are 150 years of scholarship on reconstructing the Indo-European language. I recommend that you familiarize yourself with it. Start with Lehmann’s “Theoretical Bases of Indo-European Linguistics”.
February 16, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Vedic Sanskrit literature developed first in an oral form, and was first set down in written form only after centuries of oral transmission.
Unlike what you claim sanskrit has not changed but the mordern Indo-Aryan languages such as Hindu, Urdu, Punjabi have descended from Sanskrit. Classical sanskrit is still a spoken language in Mattur (village in Karnataka).
Yes, i agree Dravidian languages and Sino-tibetan languages are not related to sanskrit but nowhere in the article was it claimed to be related too.
Will surely look up Lehmann’s “Theoretical Bases of Indo-European Linguistics”.
February 17, 2007 at 1:47 am
“Vedic Sanskrit literature developed first in an oral form, and was first set down in written form only after centuries of oral transmission.”
I’m not sure what this has to do with Sanskrit being an unchanging language?
Just as the various dialects of Latin developed into French, Italian, Spanish, etc, so did Sanskrit develop into Hindi, Gujarati, Panjabi, etc. Saying that Hindi is descended from Sanskrit is the same as saying that Sanskrit developed into Hindi.
The reason that Sanskrit today is the same as the Sanskrit of 500 BCE is because like Latin, it is a fossilized language – it has no (or very few) native speakers. It has native speakers in Mattur because it has recently been revived, just as Hebrew was revived and is now spoken natively. I would expect that the Sanskrit spoken natively in Mattur will begin to change.
February 23, 2007 at 7:28 am
John,
are you still living in dark ages? Please wake up!
March 1, 2007 at 4:24 am
John,
I can understand your statements based on the influence of various theories you have read. the PIE (Proto-Indo-European) was a fictious language to put forth a theory with an assumption that Latin,Sanskrit and Greek belong to the same group, As you might know there was never a time that this language was spoken and your mention of PIE being origin of some english words is as correct as the truth of Aryan invasion on India..
It is not easy to understand the history of languages with our knowledge of actual history of World, most of the Eastern(East to Europe in a British centric Map) History till now was seen primarily from British Colored Lens, and huge number of theories generated by these “Historians” and “Linguists” should be understood in a broader perspective from both political and religious angles ..
You might immediately say that I being an Indian will support all Brown’s comments, NO
We need to understand, By disporoving Max Mullers theories historians have established that Sanskrit was spoken even before 3000 BC on the banks of Saraswati River, which may surely bring forwards new ‘truths’ dispelling the old ‘theories’
Lets keep our minds open
“Nahi Nahi Rakshati dukrijnkarane… “
March 2, 2007 at 6:36 pm
“historians have established that Sanskrit was spoken even before 3000 BC”
And how exactly would that have been established? Brahmi-related Indic phonetic scripts do not date earlier than the first millennium BCE. The Indus Valley script is the only other script of significance dating earlier than that, and it has not been deciphered fully. Furthermore, it is most likely logographic, so we’d have no idea how it sounded anyway.
Let’s keep our minds open, but let’s also face reality … all evidence so far shows that Sanskrit’s fabled position as “the mother of all Indo-European languages” is nothing more than a remnant of European romanticism/appropriation of Indian history and culture, when it served their purposes. Don’t forget that the promulgators of this theory also once believed that all blond blue-eyed people originated in India. Sanskrit is a descendant of PIE and a sister/cousin to other IE languages, not an IE root language.
March 4, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Proto-Indo-European is not a fictitious language, it is a reconstructed language. Its hypothesized existence explains the regular phonological differences between IE languages.
If Dean Brown has an argument about why a Sanskrit word is the ancestor of an English word, I’d like to hear it – but “they have the same sound” is not an argument. The good thing about the Proto-Indo-European theory is that the rules of sound change that we’ve discovered are falsifiable – if we find evidence that doesn’t fit in with our rules, then something is wrong with the theory. But Dean Brown’s arguments are not falsifiable and are therefore useless.
March 8, 2007 at 12:49 am
“But Dean Brown’s arguments are not falsifiable and are therefore useless”
Wow… Nice conclusion… if something is not falsifiable then it is useless ???
So are you saying – “existence of air is not falsifiable” and therefore useless ?
March 8, 2007 at 4:54 am
Dean Browns claims are not testable or falsifiable. All he is saying is “word X is descended from word Y because both words have a similar sound and meaning.” How do I test it? How would I disprove it? He has no rules that explain the phonological differences between the two languages.
Indo-European historical linguistics, on the other hand, uses the comparative method:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_method
“It aims to prove that two or more historically attested languages are descended from a single proto-language by comparing lists of cognate terms. From these cognate lists, regular sound correspondences between the languages are established, and a sequence of regular sound changes can then be postulated which allows the proto-language to be reconstructed from its daughter languages. Relation is deemed certain only if a partial reconstruction of the common ancestor is feasible, and if regular sound correspondences can be established with chance similarities ruled out.”
March 10, 2007 at 11:01 am
I loved reading the responses… There is no point of arguing, as you can see John is very defensive of theories just emerged as late as 18th century…. He follows the dying breed of intellectuals who once distorted Indian History…. Anyway, keep up the good work guys… Always know: Satyamev Jayte ~~ Truth shalt triumph.
March 20, 2007 at 5:19 pm
“theories just emerged as late as 18th century”
Actually, the idea that Sanskrit is the “mother of IndoEuropean languages” is itself an idea that dates back to about that time … back when some European Indomaniacs thought their white bonde “Aryan” ancestors came from India. Now that this racial theory has been debunked, the linguistic component needs to be trashed as well, not turned on its head and rehashed for Indian/Hindu supremacist purposes.
March 22, 2007 at 11:28 am
Please refer to the below given URL which also aubstantiate it:
http://www.indusscript.com/
Rather this study goes beyond and says that IE , Dravidian and Munda languages have the same ancestor in Indus Script.
March 24, 2007 at 1:24 am
Most scripts of south and southeast Asia, including Devanaagarii, Gujarati, Panjabi, etc, and all the scripts used to write Dravidian languages, and also including Thai, Lao, Khmer and others, are ultimately derived from the Brahmi script. It is possible that Brahmi is descended from the Indus Valley script, but this is not conclusive. Some people think that Brahmi has its roots in Semitic scripts.
In any case, this has nothing to do with how the languages themselves are related. Hindi, Tamil, and Thai are not related to each other, even though the scripts that are used to write them are.
March 24, 2007 at 3:55 pm
All three languages Hindi, Tamil, and Thai are related with Sanskrit. My mother tongue is Tamil, and I know very well how much this language has Sanskrit influence.
The origin of the theory about Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) and Indo-European language is fictional and is it not based on factual or authentic study. An unauthentic study, even if it is constructed for 150 year or 1000 years to come is still will be flawed. Because it is based on wrong theory to serve vested interest and not based on facts.
Anyone who understands Sanskrit will know the fact that Sanskrit is the mother of European Languages. Only an ignorant person will say otherwise. It is not only the mother of European Languages; it is also the mother of many South East Asian languages.
What Prof Dean Brown discovered is nothing new but a natural assertion by anyone who understands Sanskrit.
April 28, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Tamil did not descend from Sanskrit. What is the basis of stating that Proto-Indo-European is fictional? Did you observe the past and history directly? Do you know what was spoken in the past exactly? Anyone who understands Sanskrit will know that it is mother of all European languages? I ask you what prohibits me from saying that Latin and Greek are the roots of Sanskrit based on linguistic similarities alone? Surely, there must be a basis to state anything and let it not be Hindu supremacy.
March 26, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Tamil is a Dravidian language
http://www.ethnologue.com/14/show_lang_family.asp?code=TCV
and Sanskrit is an Indo-European language
http://www.ethnologue.com/14/show_lang_family.asp?code=SKT
March 29, 2007 at 12:41 am
[...] http://mutiny.wordpress.com/2007/02/09/sanskrit-mother-of-european-languages-says-prof-dean-brown/ [...]
April 5, 2007 at 10:08 pm
The astronomical dates mentioned in mahabharatha (which is written in sanskrit) dates back to 3500 BC and earlier guys.. Gurutva in Sanskrit is gravitation in English.. want more proof?
Do not forget the fact that zero and place value system (which infact led to the creation of true scientific mathematics as opposed to the unscientific roman-numerals) has its roots in vedic mathematics which is a part of Atharva Veda which in turn has its mentions in Mahabharatha and hence pre dates mahabharatha is again completely written in sanskrit. Vedic mathematics is taught in the western world today in the disguised name of mental mathematics!!
Any proof about PIE?? Any text written in it?? Any authors?? People of which civilization spoke PIE? Star trek??
April 28, 2009 at 7:46 pm
Star trek? Ask that yourself. John had already mentioned the root of ‘gravity’. Your ‘proof’ does not stand up. And what is unscientific about Roman numerals? They are a representation of numbers.
Any proof for PIE? Yes, just do a research on your own mother tongue and you will understand that languages do change and transform themselves over time. Any texts in PIE? There are many ancient manuscripts which linguists are not able to decipher and let alone know how did they sound? Your question is as illogical. The Indian claim to zero comes from Brahmagupta’s book Brahmasputha Siddhanta which was written in 628 AD. There are zeros in Babylonian tablets unearthed at Kish, dated 700 BC. There are tablets from other ancient cultures too. Can you explain what is the basis of your claim for zero from mental mathematics? You talk about the West. I cannot help but observe, you wore an item invented in the west, your goggles.
November 2, 2009 at 11:47 am
Sanskrit is a language that never changed.
Please read “The True History and the Religion of India” or visit http://www.thevedicfoundation.org/valuable_resources/Sanskrit-The_Mother_of_All_Languages_partI.htm
April 6, 2007 at 4:53 am
I don’t see how astronomical dates or mathematics in the Mahabharata have anything to do with the age or unchangeability of Sanskrit.
“Gurutva in Sanskrit is gravitation in English”
Because both words are from Indo-European “gwer-1″.
http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE183.html
“Any proof about PIE?”
Yes, 150 years of actual research by actual linguists on the subject. Start with this
http://www.bartleby.com/61/8.html
April 6, 2007 at 10:23 pm
The astronomical dates indicate that sanskrit is much older than 3500 BC, as simple as that! Because the mentioned works which contain the astronomical dates are written in sanskrit.
Why are there no texts written in the so called PIE?? What script did it use??
The research article published in forbes magazine in 1987 july clearly is a proof of the unchangeability of sanskrit which makes sanskrit the only eligible language spoken by humans fit to be a software programming language!!
There is a saying in sanskrit ‘Satyam eva Jayate’ which means ‘Truth alone is victorious’, Let it be so…
April 7, 2007 at 3:22 am
The Bharata dates to the 6th century BC. Because it is written in Sanskrit, and might mention astronomical dates in 3500 BC, is not proof that Sanskrit was the language spoken in 3500 BC. Perhaps the stories were passed down, either orally or written, and assembled into the Bharata in 6 BC. Just like the Old Testament, written in Hebrew, describes events that apparently took place long before anyone spoke Hebrew.
The fact that PIE was not written down is not proof of anything. The Common Germanic language was not written down, but we know it exists.
Do some reading on the subject.
April 9, 2007 at 11:04 am
John,
I think you need to study Sanskrit, and you will realise it is unlike any other language known. To say it belongs in the same category as Latin and Greek, because of the similarity in sounds and verbs is showing ignorance of the phonology and morphology of Sanskrit, which is perfect.
Sanskrit is a highly scientific language, with an inbuilt scheme for pronounciation and grammar and word formation. It is the closest to what Saussere envisaged as a language that produces objective meaning, and is much less ambigious.
Even the word Sanskrit itself has an objective meaning. It is formed of the roots Sams and kritam, and means perfectly formed or done. Now you tell me what root words are Latin and Greek formed of? What is their meaning?
Panani writes down approx 4000 rules, which are like a set of algebaric rules, which generate Sanskrit sentences. It is compared to the power of a Turing Machine.
Thus, Sanskrit is actually a scientific, almost computer language based on sound. This is why it has not changed or shifted a single sound even today. If you change a single sound, the meaning changes.
Somebody mentioned Gurutva earlier. That’s the short form of the actual Sanskrit word for gravity: Gurutvakarshan, which is used to describe the sun. You can anaylse the word by using Pannini rules like putting it through a computer algorithm that parses the word. It is formed of Gurutva and akarsh. The word Guru, is further divisible into Gu and Ru. Gu means darkness(Go means light and true) and Ru means removal. Guru is therefore he who removes darkness(i.e., ignorance) Guru as a combined term also means heaviness. Akarsh means to attract or pull. Therefore the full meaning is: The attraction or pull by the one that removes darkness, by the virtue of heaviness.
The Vedic texts describe the Sun as upholding the solar system by its attractive force. Now, perhaps you may begin to appreciate that Sanskrit is like a coded language; based on root verbs, a precise set of algaberic rules, meaning is created. This meaning is multilayered and context based, and is represented in few words as possible.
Take for example Go, which means light, but is also taken to mean cow. This is because the cow is seen as a symbol of light, due to its sattvic nature. The word gopathi means both sun and cow-herder depending on context.
The 19th century European scholars could not understand this multilayering of coding of information. So they wrongly translated Sanskrit texts, especially the Vedas, mistranslating light for cow or swiftly-moving for horse.
For example the Vedic texts describe the Sun’s chariot as being driven by 7 horses, tied by crooked snakes. The word for horse is Ashwa. It is derived from the root verb Ash, which means swifting-moving. So anything that is swifting-moving is denoted by ash+x. It is used in the Vedas to describe arrows, thoughts, rays of light and horses.
In this context it means rays of light and the word for “snake” here means curved. What is being said: The sun has 7 rays of light, which travel in curved motion.
They have also claimed horse, cow and human sacrifice in the Vedas, mistranslating terms such as Ashwameda, gomedha and naramedha. When in their context they mean something completely different.
The 19th century European scholars and linguists you are abiding by thus clearly show they do not understand the language and are in no position to study it, let alone translate Sanskrit into English, or make sweeping statements on Sanskrits origin.
Going back to Sanskrit belonging to the same category as other classical languages. Does Latin and Greek have similar morphological and phonetic syntax? I don’t think they do.
The Alphabet is Latin for Alpha and Beta, the first two letters of the Latin Alpabet. This means that the language is based on written letters. Sanskrit, however, is based on sound. The script does not matter.
Each Sanskrit verb is formed of these sounds(36 constants and 15 vowels) and there are 2000+ root verbs.
In other words this is a highly scientific language and very precisely formed. If you are going to claim that Latin, Greek and Sanskrit have emerged from PIE. Then why is Latin and Greek so different from Sanskrit? Why doesn’t it have the same structure and precision?
Much has been written about Sanskrit by scientists and Linguist experts. Rick Briggs, a NASA scientist, published a paper on how Sanskrit was the only natural language that could be used to program artificial intelligence. As it was very much like machine code.
The phonology and morphology of Sanskrit Grammar was admitted by European Linguistics to be superior to its modern counterpart. It was not until the development of Bakus Normal Form(Modern computer code) that a language similar to Sanskrit was developed.
Do Latin and Greek have similarities with Bakus Normal forum? Nope they don’t. Therefore how could you say that Sanskrit belongs in the same category?
We can employ Occams razor here. The most simple explanation is that Sanskrit is the mother of all Indo-European languages. There is no need to invent any PIES, when Sanskrit explains it well enough.
The problem with accepting Sanskrit as the mother of IE languages, is not a linguistic issue, but a racial one. It would suggest that the Indians must have spread their culture across the world or colonised Europe. This was too difficult to digest by ethnocentric historians and linguists of the 19th century. Thus why they invented PIE and AIT.
By the way. You said that PIE is a forgotten language. Yet you also comfortably assert what the PIE verbs are e.g, you write: “deus” and “deva” are both from Proto-Indo-European “dyeu-”.
That looks very dubious to me. What you seem to be doing is combining the different variants of the sound of a verb and finding a middle ground.
Thats rubbish. So if the original word, ends up being pronounced differently in several languages. You will look at all of these, find a middle ground, and then claim they all must have stemmed from this proto source, including the original word.
This again reveals ignorance of how Sanskrit is formed: sound. If you change a single sound, the meaning changes. Div and Dvi, are subtly different, but mean different things. You can’t go around arbtarily changing the sound of words.
Sanskrit is self-contained. It has not been influenced by any other language, however it has influenced other languages.
April 9, 2007 at 12:39 pm
For all Sanskrit enthusiasts here is a site that would interest you –
http://www.mssmulund.org/
April 10, 2007 at 4:06 am
Raj,
I know Hindi, and I know some Sanskrit grammar. However, what I know the most about is linguistics, and I know that there is no such thing as a perfect language, or a language that produces objective meaning. To suggest that Sanskrit is perfect in a way that other languages aren’t is to completely misunderstand how languages work.
Read some introductory texts on linguistics and historical linguistics.
November 30, 2009 at 6:13 pm
The core point is – you cannot see Sanskrit in its full sense through the mirror you want to use – the so called linguistics & historical linguistics. As explained time & again in the discussions, Sanskrit words are not mere representations for meaning, so that you can swap one to another. They are self-contained live capsules of objective meaning. They carry meaning, they carry grammer, they carry sound all in an inseparable manner. When you put your standard rules of lingustics (that you gained by observing other languages), you can see only one part of it, the part that hundreds of foreign translators claim to have seen. They were all preoccupied to take a sneak peak, apply their linguistic analysis and walked away before they fully learned. If you want to comment on Sanskrit, or deny the very fact that many tell you (that it is a language that produces words of objective meaning) you need to learn Sanskrit. Put aside your linguistics aside or a moment. Dont learn Sanskrit as a foreign language, i.e., through english translations. Learn it from its basics and see the point.
April 10, 2007 at 4:19 am
Raj wrote:
“By the way. You said that PIE is a forgotten language. Yet you also comfortably assert what the PIE verbs are e.g, you write: “deus” and “deva” are both from Proto-Indo-European “dyeu-”. That looks very dubious to me.”
OK. If you think that “deus” and “deva” are both from Sanskrit, then show me the rules that explain the sound change in that word and all other words that you think are derived from Sanskrit. For instance, how do we get “gravity” from “gurutva”?
Indo-European linguistics has formulated regular rules of sound change that explain all the difference between IE cognates. If you want to convince me of your theory, you’ll have to do the same.
April 11, 2007 at 9:57 pm
John Wrote:
OK. If you think that “deus” and “deva” are both from Sanskrit, then show me the rules that explain the sound change in that word and all other words that you think are derived from Sanskrit. For instance, how do we get “gravity” from “gurutva”?
The English word Gravity is derived from the Latin word Gravis(or gravi), it means heavy and also means teacher(as something having gravitas) However, you cannot break apart gravis, into smaller parts to explain the meaning such as (gra and vis) because Latin does not have this feature.
The prefix and suffix tradition is actually derived(as well as genders: masculine, feminine, neuter) from Sanskrit, and is partly inherited by Greek and Latin, but not completely. This is because these features are not independent and have been extracted from a another system of grammar(Sanskrit)
So we must find that system of grammar that Greek and Latin borrows from. This brings us to studying Sanskrit Grammar. We learn that each word in Sanskrit, is formed of other words, and each word is built from a root verb(of which 2000+ exist) Therefore each verb(pada) is dependent on the other to form meaning(artha) they do not exist in isolation as in other languages.
The Latin Gravis exists in isolation. It cannot be broken down any further. Therefore this word was either created or borrowed from another language to signify heavy. We find in Sanskrit that the equivalent guru, can be broken down further, into gu and ru.
Therefore the verb guru, is dependent on the particle verbs gu and ru. If you change these constituent sounds the meaning changes. Perhaps you can now appreciate how every word-sound in Sanskrit is dependent on others to produce meaning. So arbitrarily changing the sounds is going to change the meaning. As I said before.
The constituent sounds of gravis or gravi are “Gra” and Vi” and therefore they do not produce the same meaning.
We can therefore conclude that the word has been borrowed from another language — Sanskrit. This can be assumed because Sanskrit explains the etymology of the word, and we understand the word is generated by Sanskrit’s precise and mathematical Grammatical rules.
Now how do we explain how the borrowing has taken place and why the sounds have changed?
Linguists should understand this, that if a language is allowed to develop independently, it begins to change: sounds change, meanings change, words are lost, added, extended or reduced.
You can see this in the differences in English spoken between New Zealand, Britain, Autralia and USA. They all were originally speaking British English, today they have their own variants and idosynchrocacies. The changes are more pronounced when a language develops in a foreign country e.g., English in a french country or German country is spoken much more differently than English in English countries.
These changes are not structured, so looking for rules on how these changes occur is begging the question. We find even today that words change quite dramatically based on trends: such as “want to” becomes “wanna” or “vanna”.
Now do you realise how dubious it is to compare the variant of each word, and then find a middle ground? Let’s look at an example:
want to, wanna, vanna, venna. You could say that because these words are similar, they must have evolved from the same source. Looking for a middle grounds, perhaps we can say the source root is vwa, vew or vwe. The original word might have been vwanna. This is nothing more than guessing. We know for a fact that want is the original source. However, this kind of analysis will invalidate that fact. Thus the analysis is flawed; it is producing wrong results.
April 11, 2007 at 10:30 pm
How the borrowing has taken place:
Obviously, the similarity of the IE family of languages, suggests contact. This is explained as the migrations of Aryans throughout Indo-Europe, taking with them their language and culture.
This migration does not necessarily have to be the migrations of people. It could simply be diffusion of Aryan culture throughout Indo-Europe(and arguably South East Asia) We know for a fact that India and Europe were in contact in one another from as early as the Harappa phase. This is evidenced by the existence of Indus-valley seals, and goods found in Mesopotamia etc
It is also evidenced by the highly developed, artistan and scientific Harappa civilisation, that these people must have explored and ventured beyond India. Further corroborated by the knowledge that they were seafaring people.
The extent to which the Harapans were developed cannot be found anywhere in the known world. We know that other races existed, but they were still in primitive stages.
This establishes cultural superiority. Therefore, by travelling westwards, they took with them this superior culture, and civilised the indigenous people of Indo-Europe. They may have even colonised parts of Europe.
Is there evidence of this? The fact that IE languages are based on a common source(Aryan); the fact that Harappan symbols and icons occurr in IE cultures e.g., Swastikas.
The dynamics is exactly the same as to how Britain was able to spread its culture throughout the world. Through travelling around the world and subjugating the indigenous peoples of the world and colonising their lands. However, the Aryan spread of culture, seems to be more peaceful, and there does not seem to any suggestion of military conquests; more about acceptance of Aryan culture.
With recent evidence, we have been able to prove that the Harappans and the Aryans are the same people. Thus everything fits together.
This explains how Sanskrit was diffused throughout Indo-Europe. Thus it should not be surprising that the closest cousin of Sanskrit is Avestan, as Persia neighoured the Harappans. Thus the change in language was minimal. It should also not be surprising that Latin and Greek are distant cousins of Sanskrit, as the geographical distance between them was greater, thus the change in language was greater.
As a general rule of thumb: The greater the distance from the original source language, the greater the change in language.
April 11, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Two things.
Your analysis of “guru” as “gu” + “ru” is not one that most scholars would accept. It is a folk etymology.
If you want to prove that English “gravity” and Latin “gravis” are both derived from Sanskrit “gurutva”, then you have to show me the rules that explain how the sound changes happened – rules along the lines of Grimm’s law, Verner’s law, etc. You have not done that.
April 12, 2007 at 12:14 am
And no, Avestan is not the most closely related language to Sanskrit. Avestan was an Iranian language and is closely related to Pashto
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=90019
and Sanskrit is Indo-Aryan
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=90032
The most closely related languages to Sanskrit are Hindi, Gujarati, Sinhala, Panjabi, etc.
July 20, 2009 at 10:00 am
John,
Buddy there have been some recent research on this topic and some books published by Srikant Talageri. I have read two of those and the arguments are irrefutable. It seems that Sanskrit is the original language and has the roots and not our Western languages. Also it seems there never was an Aryan invasion of India but on the contrary the other cultures in the West have come from Aryans moving into those areas out of India.
Buddy, we had a great time distorting India’s history and creating fissures.
I fear our game is up. Let us keep our minds open and save whatever respect we can.
April 12, 2007 at 1:45 am
Let me also add this: you say sound change is not regular, but in fact it is very regular. We have formulated rigorous rules that explain how the sounds of Proto-Indo-European changed into the different IE languages of today. These rules are regular. For instance, PIE word initial /*dh/ becomes Germanic /d/, Latin /f/, and Sanskrit /d/. So PIE *dhu̯ē̆r- became English “door”, Latin “foras”, and Sanskrit “dvār”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_sound_laws
If you have an alternate theory about the origins of IE languages, you have to provide the same level of detail in explaining how the IE languages are derived from your root language.
April 12, 2007 at 7:32 am
John,
No offence, but the burden of proof lies with me you not me. You are claiming to know what the words would have been in some unknown language, by comparing the IE languages. The logic you are using is circular.
1. It is assumed that because these languages are so similar they must have a common source
2. This common source must be PIE
3. We can create formal rules to recreate PIE words by comparing others.
These laws are not even consistent. From Wiki:
[quote]A second difficulty has emerged much more recently (Sihler 2006): the actual passages from the Rigveda cited in Edgerton’s two large articles in 1934 and 1943 as examples of the effects of his theory in action seriously misrepresent the facts in all but a handful of cases. No more than three Rigvedic passages cited in the 1934 article, and none at all in 1943, actually support the claims of Edgerton’s Law regarding word-initial sequences. This lies well within the operation of pure chance. And it has been shown also that the apparent success of Lindeman’s more modest claims are not without troubling problems too, such as the limitation of the reliable examples to vocalic semovowels (the glides *y and *w) even though such alternations in the other four semivowels should have left robust outcomes; and that the syllabified alternants (e.g. *diyēws) are very much rarer than they should be: they account for only fifteen to twenty percent of the total, when they should account for at least eighty percent. Further, only the diyēws alternants have a “distribution”: the dyēws shapes show no sensitivity to phonetic environment at all.[/quote]
This is an exemplary example of circular logic. Hence it is a fallacy. You cannot claim to know with 100% certainty what the words would have been in a lost language.
To even propose this lost language, without any proof whatsoever, is seriously begging the question and is unnecessarily multiplying quantities.
Why do we need to invent imaginary languages to explain the common origin of IE languages, when Sanskrit best explains it.
The etymology I discussed aboved is expounded on in the Upanishads. However, it is a moot point, whether Guru is derived Gu and ru or not, as we know that Sanskrit is based on root-words(dhatu) and this is a feature unique to Sanskrit. Thus every word is dependent on another. If you change the sound of one word, you change not only its meaning, you change the sound of many words based on it, and thus the meaning.
Lets look at the root word daa, meaning to give and numerous words can be formed from it, by simply adding subtle sounds(this is not an exhaustive list)
daaH = giving
dattaM = given
dattaan.h = things given
dadati = give, donate
dadaami = I give
dadaasi = you give , confer upon
dadau = gave (from daa : to give)
dadhaatu = let them give( us welfare)
dadhaami = create
daatavya = shouold be given
daatavyaM = worth giving
daataa = (masc.Nom.S) the giver
daataaraM = the giver
daataaram.h = one who gives
daadhaara = holds
daana = the act of giving
daanaM = charity
daane = in charity
daanena = by charity
daaneshhu = in giving charities
daanaiH = by charity
daasyaami = I shall give charity
Each sound signifies something. Let’s look at some of those subtle sounds added to daa. To illustrate my argument I will use ami, and look at other words which use ami:
ichchhaami = do I wish
kathayishhyaami = I shall speak
gR^iNaami = I hold
namaami = I bow
pachaami = I digest
pashyaami = I see
karomi = I do
Some more:
kath.h = to tell
kathaM = tell
kathanta = howness
kathaya = describe
kathayataH = speaking
kathayati = to narrate, to tell
kathayantaH = talking
kathayishhyanti = will speak
kathayishhyaami = I shall speak
kathaa = story
kathaamR^ita = Gospel
kathaamR^itaM = Gospel
kathita = told
And more:
kaama = lust
kaamaM = desire
kaamaH = desire
kaamakaama = desirer of desires (kaamaan kaamayati iti aN)
kaamakaamaaH = desiring sense enjoyments
kaamakaamii = one who desires to fulfill desires
kaamakaarataH = acting whimsically in lust
kaamakaareNa = for enjoying the result of work
kaamadaam.h = (the hymn which) gives (grants) all desires
kaamadhuk.h = kaamadhenu : the cow who can milk out anything you wish
kaamabhogeshhu = to sense gratification
kaamamadhiite = desire, reads
kaamaye = (Vr.Pr.IP.S.AP)desire; wish for
kaamaruupaM = in the form of lust
kaamaruupeNa = in the form of lust
kaamavikaaraH = sensual/sexual attraction
kaamahaitukaM = it is due to lust only
kaamaaH = desires
kaamaat.h = from desire
kaamaatmaanaH = desirous of sense gratification
kaamaan.h = desiring
kaamita = something one has wished for
kaamepsunaa = by one with desires for fruitive results
kaamebhyaH = material sense gratification
kaameshvara = lord of desires
kaamaiH = by desires
kaamopabhoga = sense gratification
kaamyaanaaM = with desire
I think this should be enough to illustrate my point. Can you see how many words can be formed by adding together root words, and how each word is dependent on the other. You change a single sound, you change dozens, hundeeds, if not thousands of words.
In Sanskrit, new words are formed by adding to older words. So instead of creating Volcano, in Sanskrit you add agni(fire) and parvath(mountain) to make agniparvathi(volcano)
Similarily, instead of using several words to say something, such as “the soliders of the Pandavas” you could simply say paaNDavaaniikaM.
These features are absent in the other I.E languages, only some have been preserved, such suffix and prefix.
The etymology of a Sanskrit word is not something arbitrarily done. You can’t split every word how you like it. It has to be done according to precise rules set by Panini.
April 12, 2007 at 8:15 am
Where did this quote about Edgerton’s Law come from?
I don’t see how your list of words is relevant to your argument that Sanskrit is the root of IE languages. Many languages form new words by adding affixes. Some do so to a much greater extent than Sanskrit, for instance Inuktitut
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_language_phonology_and_phonetics
But what does this have to do with Sanskrit being the source of IE languages? To demonstrate that, you need to formulate the rules of sound change that explain all the changes. This has not been done.
In order to demonstrate the PIE theory, you need to provide formulate the rules of sound change that explain all the changes. This has been done, using the comparative method.
The existence of Proto-Indo-European has been inferred by comparative linguistics. All these languages are so similar that is theorized that they have a common source. The existence of a hypothesized proto-language explains all the phonological differences between the languages. All of these rules have been written and rewritten over the past 150 years.
You say the burden of proof is on me. OK, read Lehmann’s “Theoretical Bases of Indo-European Linguistics.” Read Pokorny’s Indo – European Etymological Dictionary.
http://www.geocities.com/iliria1/
The PIE theory is the most widely accepted theory. If you think you disagree with it, try to understand it first. Then if you still disagree, the burden of proof is on you to formulate your own theory that can stand the test of the comparative method.
April 13, 2007 at 6:26 am
Raj Wrote:
as we know that Sanskrit is based on root-words(dhatu) and this is a feature unique to Sanskrit. Thus every word is dependent on another. If you change the sound of one word, you change not only its meaning, you change the sound of many words based on it, and thus the meaning.
This was the point I was illustrating above. I am aware that the suffix and prefix feature is present in other languages. But not to the extent it is present in Sanskrit. In Sanskrit it is based on scientific rules. Sanskrit is particularly known for it’s almost perfect morphology and phonology. It is not the same in other languages.
Again, to really appreciate this, you would need to study Sanskrit.
I am skeptical of Indo-European language rules. But I will read the on the material you provided anyway.
April 13, 2007 at 7:40 am
The Japanese for “volcano” is kazan: ka (fire) + san (mountain). Sanskrit is not unique in how it forms compound words.
If you change the sound of a word in any language, you change the meaning of the word and all the words based on it. That is what language is: arbitrary relationship between sound and meaning.
Sanskrit was not perfect; it did change, like all languages change. My reference work is “The World’s Major Languages” by Bernard Comrie. The Rigvedic nominative-accusative dual masculine of a-stems ends in -ā or -au in the early parts of the Rigveda, but -au eventually becomes the norm. For the nominative-accusative of a-stems, -ā predominates in the Rigveda, then later in the Atharvaveda, -āni is the norm. Early Vedic had pronomial forms not found in Classical Sanskrit. And so on. Pāṇini noted changes like this.
Sanskrit had a rich inflection: four kinds of compound words, 8 noun cases, and a rich verb system. I’ve been reading about it, and I appreciate how complicated and rich it is.
However, there is nothing special about it that makes it different from Latin, Greek, or other highly inflected languages. Don’t take my word for it, ask any linguist.
You cannot say “Sanskrit is scientific and perfect” and expect to be taken seriously by linguists. The only way you will convince me, and indeed the scientific community, of your theory is to use the comparative method and show exactly how the IE languages are descended from Sanskrit.
April 13, 2007 at 8:54 am
Here’s some interesting data I’ve just found. Here are some pairs of words, first the Sanskrit, then the Doric Greek.
asti
esti
“is”
pati-
posis
“master”
ajati
agei
“leads”
dadhāti
tithēsi
“puts”
dadāti
didōsi
“gives”
mātṝ
mātēr
“mother”
How to explain the fact that Greek has e, o and a, when Sanskrit just has a? The PIE theory says that both languages derived from a language that had the vowels e, o and a, and these vowels were preserved in Greek, but fell together into one vowel “a” in Sanskrit.
OTOH If you believe that Greek is derived from Sanskrit, you have to explain how the one vowel “a” became three vowels in Greek. I’m not saying that it’s impossible to prove this. But you’ll have a lot of work ahead of you.
April 14, 2007 at 7:55 am
John, I am not the type that would argue from ignorance. I am reading on PIE and the Comparative method to gain a better understanding of it.
I know that many languages have simialr features to Sanskrit. However, from my research, none of our natural languages are as refined as Sanskrit(which incidentally means perfectly refined)
You say that Sanskrit is not anymore special than Greek or Latin or any other highly inflected languages and assert that any linguist would be able to tell us this. The irony of your statement is the inventor of PIE differs with you:
“Sanskrit is more perfect than Greek, more copious than Latin and more exquisitively refined than either”(Sir William Jones, 1834)
What do you have to say about this?
In fact when the theory of PIE was initially proposed, it was believed that Sanskrit was the closest to the hypothetical PIE than any other IE language. In fact it was so close, they may as well have been the same.
You do not seem convinced that Sanskrit is a scientific language and therefore is nothing like any of the other IE languages. That is fine if you don’t have knowledge on it. So it is my duty to provide you with some knowledge on this.
It is actually scientists that have arrived at the conclusion that Sanskrit is a scientific language. The NASA space research center published a paper in 1985 on using Sanskrit as machine code for knowledge representation to program AI. You may view this paper here:
http://www.gosai.com/science/sanskrit-nasa.html
The paper concludes that Sanskrit is an unambigious language, like machine code. It likens its creators to computer scientists. It also illuminates how the word-order in Sanskrit does not change the meaning of a sentence. The word order is merely a stylistic concern.
(Please Note: The article is only hosted on this web site, but has no affilitation with it)
NASA is not the only scientific organization to have accorded Sanskrit this status. The structure of grammar is likened to Bakus Normal Form and is said to have the computational power of a Turing Machine(a theoretical computer)
Reading about it or hearing about it is probably not enough. Why don’t you learn it yourself. The following site provides online lessons on Sanskrit:
http://acharya.iitm.ac.in/sanskrit/why_sans.php
You can find more here and whole lot of other stuff: http://sanskritdocuments.org/
I think you will find yourself that this language is very much a coded language. In as few words as possible so much information can be encoded into a single sentence. We have already seen above how so much can be conveyed in a single word.
Greek, Latin or any other known language in the world do not have these features. That is why they are not Samskritam(refined)
If Sanskrit, Latin and Greek are from the same source, why is Sanskrit much more refined than both of them? Why does it contain so many features that are absent in both of them?
Again, I will continue to read on PIE, as I need to understand it. But common sense is telling me there is no way Sanskrit is in the same category as Greek and Latin, or is as old as them.
Also don’t get too focussed on linguistic evidence. Linguistics is not an exact science; it is theoretical. You cannot say with 100% certainity what the sounds or words of a lost and hypotheitical language would have been. I cannot take that seriously.
I think you should look at other types of evidence. Such as: archaelogical, astronomical and textual. They all seem to confirm the antiquity of Sanskrit to be anterior to Greek and Latin by more than a millenia. They put Sanskrit in a pre-Harappa period.
There is overwhelming evidence that ancient cultures have borrowed from India. Seidenberg was convinced that the ancient Babylonians and Egyptians got their mathematics from the Vedic Sulbasutras.
We know today that the Harappa were seafaring people and had trade with the Sumerians and Egyptians(and many other parts of the world) it is not far fetched that their culture(languages, religion, sciences) was diffused throughout the world, what we now know as Aryan.
You may also find it interesting that the Egyptians claimed to have descended from, what some scholars believe is unmistably India.
April 14, 2007 at 8:05 am
Just a small correction to the above post:
The quote from Sir William Jones is not 1834. I simply put that there to change it later, and then forgot by the time I posted(lol) The correct date is 1786.
April 14, 2007 at 8:52 pm
John, please try and turn your debate switch to OFF and really read what Raj has to say. He absolutely conveyed thoughts I always had but couldn’t articulate. Call me an ABCD (that actually derives from the urban desi ghetto language which will be published soon). No. But, honestly, c’mon John. Theories schmeries….not everything is a question/answer to life. You are aware of REALITY? What are you questioning? PIE? Well, Pluto also use to be a planet until last year! Invalid arguement. Facts are always changing because it’s about preserving the white race. It IS black and white. RACIAL NONESENSE! We had a damn constiution that declared africans (as they were rightfully at that declaration) 2/3 of a human and it’s PROVEN they were (a FACT) property. Well, now they’re not. FACT! Want me to link that for you just in case you may not know that? Point is, think outside the BOX! Books were burned, old carvings were destroyed, noses were cut off! Why?Aryan doesn’t even factor in (sorry Raj….only thing I do disagree with you about – http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/aryan-invasion-history.html)Not one damn person knows the REAL TRUTH. No one! No religion, no theory based on white people and no game of ‘telephone’ (google it if ya never played it as a kid) means anything. Yet, to a great degree it has worked. Why? Through bloodshed, rape, theft and false ‘inventors’ and ‘discoveries’! Yeah, right. How does one ‘discovery’ things that are already there?? Seriously, what happened to COMMON SENSE? How can you debate about shit when you can be and ARE wrong/inncorrect? You use all these values/rules/laws taught for ages in colleges and in society that we just accept. WHY? DO YOU QUESTION COMMON SENSE? Common sense would tell you Africans were human but ‘different’….yet, until this damn CENTURY they were treated like shit and still are. C’mon Johnny, tell me about ancient culture and what you’ve been taught to make it the END ALL BE ALL. Listen, I’ve had it with the whole: latin/greek bullshit and that everything came from basically WHITE/CAUCASIONS. ARYAN crap is a huge debate today! THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX Johnboy. Linguist? Right….how mad do you think us third world cultures are for being raped of our culture and purity and now our language! You lost, my dear JOHN which has been clearly shown by reading all this. John is derived from Hewbew, right? Or is it now justified to call it a biblical name? I mean, John the baptist and all, no?How is it that Euro – anything is significant when the FACT shows that DARK PEOPLE came before all that? Africa anyone? Someone must have been talkin’ back then. Oh, maybe they were insignificant until EURO-anything came through and ‘DISCOVERED’, wrote and published that truth, right? Dumbass. I bet you have links and facts from a solid 2000 years ago to prove me wrong. Cause, ya know Johnny….there’s “LIFE BEFORE JESUS AND THERE’S ABSOLUTE SCIENTIFIC FACTS AFTER JESUS. Then there’s basic common sense. Duh! Small minded, insecure white preserving, IGNORANT a$$hole! Raj, I respect and truly appreciate your responses, tact, knowledge and patience. Sorry I don’t have the same. Maybe John has an answer to why that is. Even though we’re both South Indian. Oh, wait, wait…maybe it’s cause I speak Telugu and you are Tamil. See, thank you!!
April 14, 2007 at 9:30 pm
[quote]“Sanskrit is more perfect than Greek, more copious than Latin and more exquisitively refined than either”(Sir William Jones, 1834)
What do you have to say about this?[/quote]
Linguistics of the 1700s and 1800s was quite different than the linguistics of today. Many people believed that Latin was a perfect language as well.
But nowadays we know better. Notions about a language being “perfect” or “refined” are misinformed opinions. Don’t take my word for it, ask any *modern* linguist.
[quote]Also don’t get too focussed on linguistic evidence. Linguistics is not an exact science; it is theoretical. You cannot say with 100% certainity what the sounds or words of a lost and hypotheitical language would have been. I cannot take that seriously.[/quote]
There is some truth to this. The comparative method is not perfect. However, the comparative method is the best method we have. Frankly, if you don’t formulate your theory using the comparative method, no one is going to take you seriously.
[quote]The paper concludes that Sanskrit is an unambigious language, like machine code. It likens its creators to computer scientists. It also illuminates how the word-order in Sanskrit does not change the meaning of a sentence. The word order is merely a stylistic concern.[/quote]
I could say the same thing about Latin. Also, I don’t see the author of this paper saying that Sanskrit is perfect or refined. AIUI he is just using Sanskrit as a model because it has a well-defined formal grammar.
And anyway, I still don’t see what this has to do with Sanskrit being the root of IE languages, because in order to demonstrate that you need to use the COMPARATIVE METHOD.
April 14, 2007 at 10:51 pm
Thanks, Raj, for the link to the online Sanskrit lessons. धन्यवाद।
April 15, 2007 at 4:00 am
John,
We have a tendency to root ourselves in our area of study. When I studied Psychology at college I was often quite amused how reductionist the various approaches were. If it was the psychodynamic approach, it was all about your early years of your life; if it was the learning approach — it was all about what you learnt etc etc
I have seen this rooting yourself in your area to consistent in almost all of the disciplines. The historians are adamant that the history they have learnt is correct; the scientists are adamant that their theories are correct.
As a philosopher myself, I can distance myself from a theory, no matter how compelling, and analyse it to its particles. If the theory can withstand this intense scrutiny, I hold it to be self-evident. In a way my thinking is very Sanskrit like(structured, scientific)
I am getting the impression you can’t do that(nor am I surprised) As you continue to reiterate the only evidence you will accept is from the Comparative Method.
You have certain assumptions built into you, which you no doubt have learned whilst studying linguistics. Have you even questioned these assumptions, until perhaps now?
I do not doubt you that Comparative Linguistics is the best method you may have. But that does not mean it is the best evidence. To make factual statements, such as so and so Sanskrit, Greek and Latin word, comes x PIE word, you need proof(not evidence, but proof) to qualify as a scientific theory, it must be falsifiable.
You accept yourself that it is not 100% certain.
The problem with theories that are not falsifiable or scientific, is that the are often based on circular reasoning. You usually begin with an unproven assumption, then try and prove that unproven assumption with your assumption.
Postulating a hypothetical and lost language. Then devising rules to make up this language exemplifies this type of circular reasoning fallacy.
This type of reasoning is invalid. It cannot be accepted by scientific standards. So to repay you back your statement that nobody is going to us seriously if we do not use the CM. Nobody is going to take the CM seriously as proof of anything.
What we can accept by scientific standards is the paper by NASA on the scientific structure of Sanskrit. The author proves his thesis statement using scientific reasoning and comparing Sanskrit to semantic nets. It is not based on any assumptions.
You said that you could say the same about Latin. Well, I await your paper on it. It has to be of the same scientific standard as the NASA one.
Again, Sanskrit is not just accorded this “perfect” status by NASA, but by several scholars, especially those who have studied it. Hence, why I’m directing you to lessons online to study it at least on a basic level to appreciate the nature of the language.
You cannot separate the grammar of Sanskrit from the language of Sanskrit. The grammar and phonology is in-built into the language. It is like a computer that generates Sanskrit sentences according to precise rules.
Again, the irony is, even your inventor of PIE – which you swear by – admits that Sanskrit is more refined than Latin and Greek.
It is his theory, upon which further theories on PIE and CM has been created. So if you don’t agree with the foundation, how can you support the rest?
Anyway I want to take on a bit more on your contention that Sanskrit, Latin and Greek have evolved from the same source. Earlier you asked me that Sanskrit only has an a, not an e or an o.
Ancient Greek has 10 vowels and 17 consonants. There are 5 short vowels and 5 longer vowels(basically extension of the original vowel sounds) which it lost on the way to Modern Greek(note this point, because we are going to revisit it)
Ancient Latin has 10 vowels and 16 consonants.
Now moving onto Sanskrit. It has 15 vowels and 33 consonants. There are 5 short vowels(2 of which have no equivalent in Roman) 8 long vowels(2 of which, which have no short form) and 2 support vowels(no equivalent in Latin or Greek)
Most of the Sanskrit consonants do not occur in Latin or Greek. They are divided into five groups based on how they are produced.
Sanskrit as a true phonetic language is spoken just as it is read and written.
Where did all these sounds, especially the consonants disappear to, if they all have emerged from PIE?
The explanation is the same as why Modern Greek lost its longer vowels. They lost these sounds from Sanskrit over the years.
You keep ignoring all other types of evidence I’m bringing up. Why is that? Perhaps you don’t understand that now that we know the Harappa and Vedics were the same. It makes Sanskrit as old as 3000-4000 BCE. Which make it the oldest language of the IE family. This eliminates the need for a PIE.
April 15, 2007 at 6:57 am
No scientific theory is 100% certain. But the comparative method is the method that works the best. It’s the method accepted by the mainstream linguistic community. You’re not going to convince me it’s wrong in a blog discussion. More importantly, if you want the linguistic community to accept your theory, you have to use the comparative method.
We determine how languages are related to each other by comparing lists of cognate terms. We establish regular sound correspondences, and hypothesize a series of regular sound changes. Sometimes there is an attested language that we determine to be the ancestor. In the case of IE languages, we could not find one, so we hypothesized a proto-language.
For PIE, we hypothesized three laryngeal consonsants that explained the vowel changes in the daughter languages. These laryngeals were later found to exist in Hittite.
You want to know where the sounds have disappeared to. Read about PIE sound changes. I’ve already given the link but here it is again
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_sound_laws
I’m ignoring your other evidence because it’s irrelevant. It doesn’t explain how the sounds of Sanskrit changed into the sounds of the daughter languages. And if you can’t explain that, you won’t convince anyone who matters.
But I’ll entertain your suggestion… if Sanskrit dates to 4000 BCE, then it would not have been Sanskrit, it would have been Proto-Indo-European. But you seem to believe that Sanskrit remained unchanged from 4000 BCE to 500 BCE, when it was first written down. This is absurd. Phonological and semantic change are facts of all languages.
April 15, 2007 at 7:37 am
[quote]if you want the linguistic community to accept your theory, you have to use the comparative method.[/quote]
You make it almost sound like a religion. I am not going to run circles with you. I don’t believe in your religion. The CM is pseudoscience to me.
Yes no scientific theory is 100% proven, but it makes predictions, that produce replicable results, under the same conditions We know for example that if two similar objects of different size are dropped off a building, they will both fall at the same speed according to the rate of gravity. If this did not happen, it would falsify the theory.
Linguistics is like many of the Arts and Social sciences, such as Sociology, Psychology(parts of it). It is based on speculative theories. It is not a true science. Therefore it does not produce facts.
Also, who said I am trying to convince linguists? I am not grounding myself in any single area. I am looking at all kinds of evidence. No evidence is irrelavant.
You keep asking me for rules on how the sounds change. That’s irrelevant. It is based on an shaky assumption that there is an exact science behind the sounds of a languages changing over time. If there are such laws, if I were to point out a single instance where the law is not being obeyed, it would falisfy that law.
April 15, 2007 at 7:47 am
A language does not change in a vacuum. There are too many variables to ennumerate that would affect a language over a period of time. Take for example Modern Greek and Latin losing their longer vowels out of disuse.
Another example I mentioned earlier is when a language is taken out of its natural environment and evolved in a foreign environment e.g., English in Japan is spoken much more differently than English in England.
Can you imagine future linguists studying the various variants of English in the future and concluding they all stemmed from a Proto source? We might be having this debate again in a future life
April 15, 2007 at 10:37 am
Raj! WILL YOU MARRY ME? haha. You’re knowledge and vibe are absolutely appreciated. Thank you. John, honesty, if this was a ‘right/wrong’ debate……sorry, you’re WRONG. Linguistics and your basis of argument has been validated over and over by Raj. Yet, you keep coming back to “lingustic theories” and also I truly believe enjoy the debate. It’s you and Raj and you are starting to post redundance. You can’t prove what he is logically and FACTUALLY stating. You aren’t going to get anywhere. Linguists are only assuming with no SOLID, ABSOLUTE PROOF. Re-read that negative, long rant in the comments again. They aren’t that off. Sorry. So Raj, are you single? heh…
April 15, 2007 at 10:46 am
Abusive comments will not be tolerated. Attack the ideas not the person.
Swetha Iyer
April 15, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Personal attacks, flame posts or name calling will not be tolerated. If you are offended by theories, ideologies or opinions that differ from your own – I urge you not to be part of this forum anymore.
April 20, 2007 at 8:23 pm
All I want is for someone to provide a theory that explains how the IE languages are descended from Sanskrit. Why does Sanskrit have 1 vowel where Doric Greek has 3? Exactly how did the sounds of all the IE languages develop out of Sanskrit?
Why can no one explain this?
April 21, 2007 at 9:13 am
John, I don’t really understand linguistics enough to make any argument. As far as I am concerned it is not a proper science.
However, there is someone who has thoroughly debunked PIE from a linguistic perspective:
http://voiceofdharma.com/books/ait/ch31.htm
You should also read the other sections of his book, which goes about systematically debunking every part of AIT. I am sure any rationalist after reading his book, will come to the same conclusion that India is the home of the Aryans and Sanskrit the mother of all IE languages.
April 23, 2007 at 8:34 pm
This page seems to be saying that instead of trying to understand the mainstream linguistic theory, and formulate an alternative theory, some people just try to discredit linguistics altogether. I’d agree with that.
April 24, 2007 at 12:48 am
Yes, the author is actually taking the linguistics seriously, and working within the framework of linguistics to argue against PIE. He concludes that although the linguistics point to India as the origin of “PIE” it is not conclusive evidence.
However, I am not really interested in linguistics. It makes too many unfounded assumptions e.g., Vedic Sanskrit is an earlier form of Sanskrit. How do we know that? Vedic Sanskrit could have been contemporous with Classical Sanskrit. Indeed, even Panini, has a special section for Vedic Sanskrit in his treatise.
Vedic Sanskrit is a special language created to devise Mantras for the Vedas. It is not unlike Classical Sanskrit, only it is much more difficult and has its own special grammar. The meaning of these Mantras is open to interpretation, and the meaning is so fluidic, you can literally support any case with it.
The early Indologists tried to use their interpretations to support AIT(Aryans as a nomadic, polytheistic, primitive people) by interpreting the Devas as chiefs of the Aryan tribes. Then the Arya Samaj, tried to interpret it as discussing technology, from aeroplanes, steam engines to telephones. Recently, we’ve had people interpret them as discussing particle physics to data encryption.
Interestingly, this confusion is not new, but even in ancient Indian times, there was debate on how to interpret Vedic Sanskrit. Krishna tells us in the Bhagvad Gita for instance, that there is a hidden meaning behind the Vedas.
That said, the Vedas are not nonsensical. They do create meaning, words are identifiable, sentences are properly constructed, and there is plenty of explantory texts on them. To understand them however, you need to study them very intensely. It could literally take a life-time to decypher them.
April 25, 2007 at 10:25 pm
This author does not “argue against PIE”. In fact, it seems to me that he accepts it. He’s arguing against the theory that the Aryans invaded India, which is a very different issue.
Also see
http://www.safarmer.com/frontline/
April 26, 2007 at 7:22 pm
John,
The author is arguing against AIT, of which PIE is the main theory and evidence provided for it. They are not different issues. Maybe you should read it again. The author argues that the origin of PIE, if it even existed, was likely in India. He also argues that PIE and Sanskrit are virtually identicial.
He then concludes that the linguistic evidence is insufficient to make a a case either way. He accepts PIE, only to deconstruct it, and then invalidate it.
If you read the rest of his book, it is clear he is arguing that Aryans and Sanskrit were based in India, and later the Aryans migrated around the world and took with them their language and culture and estabished civilisations. This may have included the original Greeks and Egyptians.
Basically it’s AIT in reverse. Thus Sanskrit as the mother of all IE languages holds true.
May 21, 2007 at 11:38 pm
I don’t understand why South Indians are arguing about this. Or Thai’s. Tamil, Kannada or Thai have nothing to do with Hindi, Punjabi, Marathi, Bengali or Sanskrit. I think there is a relation between Europe and North India. I don’t think it is necessarily the way most Europeans put it. A lot of evidence makes it appear as if Europeans are descendants of North Indians.
May 30, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Hey guys…
just passing and glad to see the indians taking pride in their culture & history….
people like john are Hitler fans who are so deluded that they honestly hold onto the belief that a NON-EXISTING language to be the mother of SANSKRIT because…
The AIT has fallen flat on its face and silly little boys like him want to believe that the Europeans are the Gods and masters of the Bud-bud-ding-dings of Aryavartha….
a little clue…
in the chapter in the Bible known as the Tower of Babylon – it mentions a global universal language…
this language was NOT Hebrew or ANY of the middle Eastern languages….
why is there a stonehenge in Sri Lanka in the ancietn city of Yakkha? Exact same structure just different dimension sizes…
Gene Matlock along with Stephen Knapp have & are still writing books proving that SANSKRIT and the VEDIC culture was global..
Hence the Swastikas being found globally along with Hindu deities…
a realm with 330 billion deities with their own unique thread of iconology leading to the gates of a kingdom of wisdom to be revealed….
please John you cannot TAKE the branches of tree, stick them in the ground NEXT to the tree you pulled them off….
and then audaciously claim they are the roots of the very TREE you ripped them off from…
in the same way you would be laughed if you suggested the English marched to Rome and gave the Romans Latin…
the only DIFFERENCE is that the PIE theory is taking no branches from a tree and claiming whatever HITLER minions manifest AS the PIE languages is the roots of SANSKRIT….
Sieg Heil….
Kal-k
The 3rd Side of a Coin..
The Beginning & The End…
ps – the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0 only arrived in the west in modern history in the 8th century??? How could the A.I.T have happened?
you my dear squire are like a man turning upto a cricket match in rugby uniform…
June 26, 2007 at 12:07 pm
Proto-European never existed and never will. Santskrit is oldest and most pure Indo-Aryan language. There is no reason for English to be relatated to it. Unfortunately, English, and the whole other group of western languages are. Racist colonists invented the idea that the Aryans came from the North West to India. No proof exists, and the Vedas call the holiest place in the world to be be Kurukshetra. Even if Proto-Indo-European existed it would have been in India not anywhere else. As why would the Vedas be India and the origin somewhere else. These mythical blondes blue eyed people would have then had the oldest proof of PIE. Instead brown India does, what a terrible problem for the West land of the setting sun. So PIE was made up. Lets just say Santskrit is Proto-Indo-European, it is close enough to the original Indian language it may have come from.
July 21, 2007 at 7:53 am
My website has some articles on languages and science. It might interest you. Please send your email-ID. Thanks — MNG
July 26, 2007 at 5:22 pm
Sanskrit – Mother of European Languages says Prof Dean Brown
Sanskrit gets a new spokesperson in Professor Dean Brown, an eminent Theoretical Physicist, cosmologist, philosopher and Sanskrit scholar, whose translation of the Upanishads was published by the Philosophical Research Society. The following is a very …
July 28, 2007 at 12:33 am
Hey All You Sanskrit enthusiast here is a something that I think is nesccesary to share over in this discussion that ” Sanskrit is not formed Or developed by any body it is something that is found from within & from the nature & later incorprated.” This is the core reason why it is the Mother Language of all & this also means that its belongs to the nature we live in first & then anybody/community later on…
but it’s also true that its stemmed from India which has a history over lakhs of years & had many Saints & Sages whome in search of finding “Truth” went inside into themselves and nature and in the way found these sounds coming out from nature & which later has the Sankrit language.
(do forgive some mistakes as my enlgish is not perfect)
kunal
July 31, 2007 at 2:37 am
Sanskrit is one of the oldest language in the world. (history tells it)
It is possible that latin derived some grammer / words from sanskrit (since sanskrit is the
oldest), But we cannot 100% say that latin is 100% derivative of sanskrit…but we can 20%
say that 20% is derived.
Now the problem is about this 20%..who will prove that this 20% sanskrit has taken from latin
or latin has taken from sanskrit. For this we have to see history and historical records (Eg:
epics, old books, old monuments, religion etc) shows that sanskrit seems to be older.
Also oldest university in the world was in india..(u must be knowing about taxsilla and
nalanda)……where sanskrit was widely spoken… and thousands of people around the world
took training from there….. may be from here the foreigners took the grammer and better
things from sanskrit …. its possible!!..
Also sanskrit is very much influential language….there are currently around 18 official
(thousands of dialects) languages in india….hindi, bengali, gujarati, etc.. in fact
language such as telegu (dravidian descendant) has sanskrit influence… This shows that
sanskrit was influential…. (during that period) … ( now in the 21st century i think
english is the most influential language in the world … thx to british rule in the past )
Also sanskrit is very very very very scientific language…its tooo tooo too much structured
language…why why why why because its just perfect!!.. The sound/words/word
breakups/sentence breakups/ (grammer) everything is so much structured.. Its highly
optimized…and refined with the passage of time… Everyone should agree that computer
languages are structured….and sanskrit is structured too (very well optimized and
refined).. there are very few languages as structured as sanskrit ..In other languges the
sequence goes wrong..there is no proper sequence(Structure).. the head goes somewhere and
tale goes somewhere else. …… so we have to muggg up without any structure (in programming
its like learning cobol and learing C++.. C++ is highly structured as compared to cobol… so
other languages are like cobol)…. thats why coder prefer C++ (and languages similar to c++)
over others cobol like languages..also C++ is easy to manage/understand/readable and
maintain.. ) …………. that’s why its said sanskrit is more preferred…if u write a very
very very complex program, if u write that complex program in sanskrit then it would be
better)
….image a computer program being written as a novel!!!!…instead of looping around
everywhere…
Also sanskrit has refined a lot with the passage of time…but!!.. every good thing has a bad
end.. pre sanskrit->sanskrit->prakrit got in -> pali language along with all indian language
(current languages in india) developed (descendants of sanskrit) … Why the language lost i
don’t know….but still in india for each and every rituals (birth, marriage, death) sanskrit
is used…… and also in schools sanskrit is tought (very very basic)…… also there are
text in sanskrit in 1000’s of topics including medicine (aryuveda), science, maths (the digit
0), cultures, novels, music, sex(kamasutra), songs, dance forms, painting, idol creation ..
etc.. so it has the contribution of the most learned people on earth. and all these things
are written in sanskrit… hence intelligent people have participated in developing such as
language (with the passage of time) so its has to be one of the most
structured!!………………
if u have to choose the best language then its the oldest popular extinct langugage which is
sanskrit.
August 2, 2007 at 8:05 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Adamic_language/archive1
As Catherine Emmerich wrote:
“Upon Heber who, as we have said, took no part in the work, God cast His eyes; and amid the general disorder and corruption, He set him and his posterity apart as a holy nation. God gave him also a new and holy language possessed by no other nation, that thereby his race should be cut off from communication with all others. This language was the pure Hebrew, or Chaldaic.”
Hebrew cannot be Adamic Language, and because to that, Catherine Emmerich explains below true nature of Adamic language:
“The first tongue, the mother tongue, spoken by Adam, Sem, and Noe, was different, and it is now extant only in isolated dialects. Its first pure offshoots are the Zend, the sacred tongue of India, and the language of the Bactrians. In those languages, words may be found exactly similar to the Low German of my native place. The book that I see in modern Ctesiphon, on the Tigris, is written in that language.”
Because Sanskrit is one of sister Indo-European languages that are daughters of Adamic language, Adamic language can be only Proto-Indo-European.
August 9, 2007 at 9:03 am
I completely agree what John says. His arguments are truly valid and not biased.
August 9, 2007 at 9:49 am
As John says, there is no such thing as a perfect language, or a language that produces objective meaning. I would think Telugu is as much perfect/older language as Sanskrit, if not more sweeter.
August 14, 2007 at 11:46 pm
Let us also consider the ancient Dravidian languages which many scholars argue to be older than Sanskrit. Take Tamil for example: a perfectly self-contained language that is highly poetic with an intricate grammatical structure. Tamil is unique in its multi-facetednes; it enables the writer and or speaker to use metaphorical language to the utmost, with phrases and imagery that have produced some of the richest poetry in the world. By the same token, Tamil is a very logical language, in that it has contributed to a culture that is second to none in mathematics (and I emphasize mathematics) and science. Thus Tamils have no hang ups about wanting to be linked with any European ancestry. That whole indo-european, hypothetical headache is irrelevant to their consciousness.
August 24, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Indian culture has to be substantially old. And even languages such as Tamil, while differing in form from Sanskit, must have been greatly influenced by it in view of their proximity of development. See https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html the many year long project that National Geographic has been pursuing to use genetics to study human origins and migration. In the south there are the M20 “Dravidian” Haplogroup. My personal tests revealed the M52 Haplogroup. Being from a South Indian brahmin background, and followers of the Rig Veda, I see this greatly strengthen the arguement that Sanskrit was developed in the Indus valley region (where the Genographic project believes the M52 Haplogroup originated 25,000 years ago)! Just as a note, the Dravidian gene M20 is closer linked to the European male lineage than the M52. But both originated in India about 25-30,0000 years ago! The other genetic link that may be interesting to the topic at hand may be Haplogroup M17, which is found in about 35% of some north Indian populations. The site above postualtes the theory that they may have been responsible for the IE languages. However, their rarer percentages in the route in between India and Europe (in Iran and the ME) does not prove that they brought the common language down to India given that Farsi etc. are also of the IE language family and do not have much of the M17 lineage in them. The more likely explanation is that the knowledge went the other way around (since they would have maintained some tie back to where they came from). The other issue is that languages (especially grammer)typically develops much more stong in agrarian or urbanized populations over migratory nomadic people. Archeological evidence has no proof that these early Europeans were anything but nomadic 10,000 years ago.
August 26, 2007 at 10:20 am
BTW, an FYI for non Indian people (or people who do not have much insight into Hinduism), the Rig Veda is the earliest of the Vedas. The Rig Veda has no mention of the Ganges, which subsequent Vedas do. Instead the Rig Veda is all about the river Saraswati. One theory is that due to cataclysmic events at the origin of the river Saraswathi (that flowed in the same region as the Indus), the river dried up or changed course. That resulted in the demise of the old civilizations in the area of the Indus region. Later Vedas mention the Saraswathi is an underground river that originates near the source of the Indus but joins the Ganges at Prayag. This could be explained as (a) people from the old Saraswathi-Indus civilization moved east to re-establish themselves in the Ganges area (b) part of the old Saraswathi changed path and joined the Ganges (one of the theories is that the Yamuna might have been that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarasvati).
The basic argument here is that historical / religious text provide information about the earlier period of the Hindu civilization. The information provided there greatly supports recent archeological evidence and now even genetic evidence, that effectively debunks a lot of the earlier grossly speculative claims (especially of an aryan invasion).
Another, interesting commonality between middle eastern, European and Indian history is the deluge. Western history talks about Noah, ME talks about Nuh and Indian about Manu. It is possible that there was a common root to all three, where the person may have been someone called Manuh (that changes in emphasis of the name resulted in three different people). It would be interesting if future science could eventually link the Saraswathi river change to this historical deluge (huge rains at the river sources could have predated massive floods and subsequent geographical changes that caused the river to change course). Obviously the linking of the deluge to the Saraswathi changing course is pure speculation on my part
. But it is a possibility that could provide one logical link to a common past.
September 8, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Grand-Pianos.org
Good piano performance. Thanks heaps for this!… if anyone else has anything it would be much appreciated. Great website HOT Klavier Links! Enjoy!
September 19, 2007 at 10:32 am
I have read view points of John and Raj and strange as it may sound, I find meaningful thoughts in both the approaches. There is nothing wrong in using comparative approach (method) to understand relationship (if any) between different languages and if you can find a conclusive evidence that there is a relationship thats great. We all are human beings and our objective should be to find truth. Its true as a matter of common sense that different groups of human beings have had to travel from one part of the world to another due to natural,political, economical or romantical reasons. Some have traveled little and others have traveled a lot. As such there is bound to have some interaction even if everyone was speaking different languages. Over the course of few centuries even if only 10 words picked up (per year), it leads to multiple permutations and combinations. As such lets not kill the reasoning or thoughts just because you dont like it. And comparative method may be one of the approaches but cant be the only one. With the same token, it is true that Sanskrit is more refined. I understand Greek (modern) and Sanskrit (as taught today) and I do find some siginifant similarity and some striking differences. This makes me feel that work Sanskrit is more refined. But lets keep the discussion open. Calling arguments as burst of racism does not help.
September 25, 2007 at 12:15 pm
good
October 7, 2007 at 9:57 am
RE: “Sanksrit is more refined” Our tastes:preferences, dislikes etc..are the outcome of our social and cultural conditioning. The Greeks will say the same thing, namely that “Greek is more refined”. Human beings have an intense desire to expand the “self” through a particular culture, religion, race, history, etc…Because without it, we feel insignificant and powerless. All life is interdependent;an essentialist outlook on life only degrades the human experience.
No wonder Buddhism struck fear among facists in India.
October 29, 2007 at 3:24 pm
by the wasy, for those who simply blabber they sould know that few words (eg. for father) words in latin already existed in sanskrit long back
October 31, 2007 at 11:30 am
Im doing a hell lot of research on the origin of Sanskrit!
My opinion fully matches with Professor Dean Brown.Not because im a indian but because the history the archaelogical evidences and the circumstances all sum up to say that Sanskrit was the language of the earth(like English now) which was known as Bharat!
Bharat is just not India but the whole earth as one continent. If u all see the structure of the land mass in the ice age and just after the ice age..u will find that the earth was having only one huge mass of land. That was called bharat.
Bharat(India now) was the only civilised nation with people from all over the world flocking to learn language and Art(Vedic and War).
Sanskrit is older than 23000BC and speaks of 14 Adams and Eves. Sanskrit is far more harder language to speak than Hebrew or Latin. So Bharat had special Ashrams built to allow people learn the language as well as Arya(Noble)Dharma(Thinking).
Hinduism is not a religion but an art of living in peace and harmony with all cultures and respecting the divinity of GOD and seeing HIM in everyone…thus respecting everyone.
The word Matra-Mother in English
the word Naugata – Navigate now in English
The Bharat traders used to travel selling spices all over the world even before Bible, Koran was written. The letter Bha and Pa are missing in Arabic.
Hence spices are baharat in arabic.
The word eve emerges from the Sanskrit word
Hayavrutive and Adam comes from Adham(or first).
the word divine in English comes from Divya..the word Diva in Sanskrit and Latin mean same.
the word Maayaa is spoken as Mahaya in Arabic…just like they say Cinemaat for Cinema.
The Greek God idol is same as Lord Shiva.
The americans call the Ram Sethu
as the Adams bridge..and we followit blindly.
Where as Archaelogy proves that the bridge was built 10000 years ago and its the same time Ramayana was written by Valmiki. There are lots of evidences.
what else does it need to proove that we all belong to the same culture and the same GOD.
Revoking the vedas again will truly change the world into a peaceful place.
And im glad Sri Sathya Sai Baba is doing it!
SaiRam – Love All Hurt Never
November 12, 2007 at 9:31 am
Payday Loans No Fax
Knowing that secretarys who know about Orlando usually advocate personal loan
February 3, 2008 at 1:50 am
Hello Mr.Raj,
Could u plz give us ur contact details,b’coz
we r very impressed with ur knowledge,tact,patience n overall response.We r interested in contacting u coz our aim is to work on Vedas, n to begin with we r working on Ayurveda now,trying to establish scientifically the concepts of Ancient Ayurveda.We have done a preliminary work on action of various diets as prescribed in Ayurveda on the resting membrane potentials of cells.it establishes the credibility of concept of vata,pitta,kapha to the scientific world.in the future we want to work on Indology n prove the supremacy of Bharat’s Vedic Knowledge which is translated into Bharat’s culture thru the ages.
For this reason,we can work together.plz get back to us.
Dr.RaviShankar
sairavishankar@yahoo.com
February 19, 2008 at 11:52 am
dear men,
we are all discussing how ancient our languages are! and which is the perfect and refined one! it seems we are fighting to prove that somebody is more ancient and supreme than others. till now we dont know where else life exists apart from earth. this kind of discussion may enlighten our brains but i wonder where else it will lead..!
February 26, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Proto-Indo-Germanic (Proto-Indo-European) is Adamic, learn it here: http://www.koeblergerhard.de/idgwbhin.html (Grammar in Vorwort)
Because Anne Catherine Emmerich wrote and I cited and commented here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Adamic_language/archive0
“Upon Heber who, as we have said, took no part in the work, God cast His eyes; and amid the general disorder and corruption, He set him and his posterity apart as a holy nation. God gave him also a new and holy language possessed by no other nation, that thereby his race should be cut off from communication with all others. This language was the pure Hebrew, or Chaldaic.”
Hebrew never ever was Adamic Language, and because to that, Anne Catherine Emmerich explains below the true identity of the Adamic language:
“The first tongue, the mother tongue, spoken by Adam, Sem, and Noe, was different, and it is now extant only in isolated dialects. Its first pure offshoots are the Zend, the sacred tongue of India, and the language of the Bactrians. In those languages, words may be found exactly similar to the Low German of my native place. The book that I see in modern Ctesiphon, on the Tigris, is written in that language.”
As you see, Sanskrit is only one of sister Indo-Germanic languages that are first ever daughters of Adamic language. Thus Adamic language can be only Proto-Indo-Germanic.
February 27, 2008 at 10:06 pm
In 3000 years from now, the language called English will replace the word Sanskrit in the above discussions. But no, there are countries, their languages, way of life, etc., on hard records, longer living memories and hence English won’t. Only to some extent. Prevalence is my point.
February 28, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Division of humanity to nations, countries, etc… has no future, and is only temporarily established by God to serve only to block devil-steered type of human unity, since Babel to end of time, until elimination of all inspirations from hell. As a result, all false beliefs are now justly tainted by false languages. In eternity, only Proto-Indo-Germanic (Proto-Indo-European) will be used, as was on beginning, 6000 year ago, when God created our world and our parents – Adam and Eve in Paradise near Jerusalem, directly from holes in ground. God provided us information by Catholic Visionary Anne Catherine Emmerich (Catholic movie Passion was inspired by her private revelations), that Proto-Indo-Germanic is Adamic, to give us chance to return to our true mother tongue under condition of creating only God-steered human unity, and under condition of total abandonment of any inspirations from hell. To do it, Catholic faith must be adopted by each human that wants to return to Proto-Indo-Germanic language, to show God, that this human deserve lifting punishment of confusion of tongues, which can be done properly only with true Catholic faith and thanks to God for His Mercy of chance to abandon confusion of tongues by using this http://www.koeblergerhard.de/idgwbhin.html Indogermanisches Worterbuch. For additional proof, I put here private revelation of Maria Valtorta:
Now He [Jesus Christ] rose from the dead. He made everything. He was praised already before his incarnation. Three times He is praised now when he annihilated Himself in the body for so many years giving Himself, leading the obedience to such an excellence could die on the Cross for filling the will of God up. He will ascend to the Heaven by so much praised in His praised body and will enter the eternal Glory beginning reigning which Israel didn’t understanded. He is calling – to this Kingdom like never before, insistently, with love and the – authority all tribes of world. All nations will come to the Saviour, the same as it they could see and they predicted just of Israel and Prophets. And there will already be no Jews nor Romans, no Scytes nor Africans, no Iberians nor Celts, no Egyptians nor Phrygians. Living behind the Euphrates will unite around with the ones from above the eternal River. People of the North, at the side of Numidians, will come to its Kingdom. Races and dialects will disappear. There will already be no differences [resulting around] of clothes, the skin colour or hair. There will be one boundless, shining and clean people, one speech and one love. So there will be a Kingdom of God. Kingdom of Heaven. Eternal Monarch: Offered as the victim and rose from the dead. Eternally [existing] subjects: the ones which adopted His faith. Be willing to believe in order to be them.
Proud humans used their confusion as a pretexts for various Godless fascist and nazist doctrines, that along with their confused tongues has no future, being in Eyes of God totally null and void. Thus I invite you all to abandon sin and become again Proto-Indo-Germanic Catholics believing in God again. Otherwise you will be still under punishment of confusion of tongues, fighting for non-eternal false nationalities in vain.
March 29, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Adamic language is currently described here: http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/Adamic_language
April 22, 2008 at 5:06 am
Just recently I come to know about the Sanskirt Language. The way I came about hearing about it was the word MATA came to mind. Never heard the word before. I told a Dr. what the word was that came to my mind and she said it meant mother. I am curious about the word MATA because it has led me to want to learn more of the Sanskirt Language. I have made a type of some words which came to me and a gentlemen from Jersuleum took it back with him. When he returned he said that it was a combination of 3 languages. These the reason I want to learn more about the Sanskirt Language. I live in Central, Fl area. If you should know of anyone I might speak further about this experience I have had I would appreciate your reply.
April 24, 2008 at 7:42 pm
hi guys very intersting arguments..please read these 2 book:
1)The Hidden Connections
2)Proof of vedic culture’s global existence.
Sanskrit can be argued to be 12000 yrs old.rigveda was an effort to keep all the science safe in codes. well, sanskrit actually evolved to all those languages. all the other languages have taken something from sanskrit..
cheers
avi
April 26, 2008 at 12:08 am
Sanskrit’s priority and dates more than 6000 years back from Y2K such as 12000 years back from Y2K are both false. PIE is Adamic and World exists ONLY six thousand years since Creation in Eden near Jerusalem:
“He told them that the world had now existed 4028 years. When I heard Jesus say this, He was himself thirty-one years old” See here: http://www.all-jesus.com/scriptures/bible1-4.htm
Thus world in moment of Birth of Jesus Christ had 3997 years.
May 8, 2008 at 7:58 am
very interesting comments/discussions, especially from Raj dated April 9, 2007 at 11:04 am was the best and very enlightening, even which John didn’t have any reply
it seems to me that Sanskrit did influence Latin to a great extent and then from there other languages took off, if Sanskrit is not the root of influence then why we don’t have any loan words in Sanskrit from Latin? Even William Jones mapped his way into European languages via Sanskrit and only when he came to India and got more enlightened with Sanskrit, it was then he thought of the Indo-European connection. The language of Sanskrit is more refined than any, near perfect otherwise NASA wouldn’t have spent their time researching on it as a machine language.
Keep up the good work guys
May 12, 2008 at 11:57 pm
If anybody wanted proof of why the idea of Adamic language and PIE is still propagated then read what IDG and Inquisitor say above. They are totally blinded by their faith and will even believe rediculous theories of the world’s age as 6000 years. The world has seen enough destruction of native cultures and history has been manipulated enough by the xian missionaries. Time that we stand up to the Truth and debunk AIT, PIE and Adamic stories.
May 22, 2008 at 1:25 am
hi everybody… i becam very much interested to know the relation between european languages and sanskrit , when i started to learn french.. many words in french resembled hindi,which born from sanskrit. here r some words, dant[tooth] in la dant in french. the word regarding the directons , aage[front] and aagesh[right]…
is anybody there knowing some more words or able to explain this resemblance??????
May 23, 2008 at 12:15 am
If you still will blaspheme against Most Holy Trinity, Catholic Church and Adamic Proto-Indo-European, and you still will refuse to repent, then wait for Holy Inquisition: FEAR AND SURPRISE awaits you. More here: http://www.giftstor.org/tomkiel05fst.html
May 27, 2008 at 11:03 am
Hi all,
The proponents of the PIE bias seem to overlook the fact that all of the evidence they seek comfort in are tainted interpretations colored by the interpretive lens of the west.
May 27, 2008 at 11:25 am
very-very-very-very good website. thanks
May 27, 2008 at 11:41 am
This is a very good discussion even though I think John might be trapped by an “escalation of commitment”.
In any event, it seems to me that the important thing at this point to celebrate the Vedas and to nourish our existence with the treasures contained therein.
May 28, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Tomas de Torquemada mentioned famous “Anti Atari song”, which is targeted against all tainted Chinese products – especially against Chinese Atari symbolized by Chinese _/|\_ ideogram. American Commodore symbolized by American C= logo was made in USA and never was tainted.
May 28, 2008 at 5:05 pm
I’m interested in the argument that Sanskrit is a perfect language. I think this may be an artifact of it being dead, so we only have the work of scholars to know how it should be. If they are linguists they have the opportunity to construct the set of rules to make them consistent. Since we have no living speakers we can forget the exceptions. Latin is also put upon a similar pedestal, but we have little idea how common people spoke Latin back in the day.
It’s interesting to think what rigors it would subject non-perfect people with woolly ideas to speak a perfect language.
Also if such a language was useful it would come to dominate, and the people who spoke it would multiply and never diminish. If perfected the language would be adaptable but backwards compatible. This might also not be useful as concepts are adapted, thrown away, and reintroduced. How would it effect learning from other cultures – all the concepts would need to be translated.
Of course the way we speak is a conflict between what we want to express and the language we must express ourselves in.
June 2, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Wow! The earlier part of this thread is a textbook example of why rational, educated people should not waste their time discussing things with the masses.
John presents reasoned arguments based on modern linguistics, and he gets responded to with unjustified statements as if they were objective facts (without rationale or explanation), bald assertions that Sanskrit is perfect and scholarship is irrelevant in the face of what is traditional “knowledge”, quotations by 18th-century linguists (as if knowledge or linguistics has stood still since then), and gets likened to Hitler, thereby Godwinning the entire thread.
Bravo guys. My sympathies and respect for John.
[P.s., before you say I know nothing, I studied Sanskrit in university for more than a year, and have studied linguistics enough to recognize that John is well-versed in linguistics. Sanskrit is a wonderful, beautiful language, but to think that it is perfect and that everything we know about language does not apply to Sanskrit because it is the perfect language of the Gods is religious delusion!]
June 3, 2008 at 12:52 am
These unholy false pagan gods are in reality very unholy and evil fallen angels that eternally abandoned and still eternally abandons in eternal realtime God’s Love in Its Most Holy Entirety. These fallen angels are like these beasts appearing in these very unholy games such as Doom and Quake series. These fallen angels are cheating and lying that Sanskrit is pre-Babel, while Sanskrit (Indian) along with Bactrian and Persian (Zend) are only first ever confused descendants of first ever human language – Proto-Indo-European. Proof here: http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/Adamic_language
June 3, 2008 at 1:27 pm
If something here is tainted, it will be all tainted Chinese products mentioned in “Anti Atari Song”, but never Adamic Proto-Indo-European that is pure and undefiled, because PIE is original human tongue from before Babel.
June 13, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Shweta,
Thanks for the article. I enjoyed the discussions too, especially the one between Raj & John. Very Educative.
Sanskrit also carries with it the Sanskriti (cultural refinement) with which much of Asian (and later, post Renaissance European) culture has been seeded. The only exception is that the Europeans (“Westerners” essentially) do a very poor job acknowledging the debt.
Much of ‘Post-Modern” thought (Morphology in Linguistics, Structuralism, etc…) has been due to European scholars mining Sanskrit (& Sanskriti) concepts. For more-
http://rajivmalhotra.sulekha.com/blog/post/2005/07/geopolitics-and-sanskrit-phobia.htm
Geopolitics and Sanskrit Phobia
Rajiv Malhotra
Published on Tuesday, July 5, 2005
| Views 29482 | Comments (1222)
I. Sanskrit and the Multicultural Sanskriti (Indic Civilization)
II. Pan-Asian Sanskriti
III. Decline of Sanskrit
IV. Sanskrit Influence on Modern Europe
V. Colonial De-Sanskritisation of India
VI. Post Independence Indian assault on Sanskrit
VII. Sanskriti and the Clash of Civilizations
VIII. Leveling the Civilizational Playing Field
Article END references
August 22, 2008 at 2:01 pm
i am with john and raj
August 22, 2008 at 2:05 pm
I am with anu,unni and anjali
August 25, 2008 at 12:02 am
if bharat had benefited the world or the viceversa why do we worry about how? i think tamil and english are two of the most intuitive languages. tamil may be the mother of sanskrit (more advanced, developed and past-intellectual) and also english. the only people that english comes intuitively to is the tamilians and very interchangeable.
August 27, 2008 at 9:34 pm
i spent half an hour reading this whole page ,frankly i am not a nerd or a person so intellectual that he is blinded.
i appreciate raj and john for rasing a debate,
it certainly has been informative, what i dont like is when such kind of a debate turns into a subject of national pride for any of the sides,
for all i have known my god is the space and time i live in, if something is perfect it will remain theoretical ,
perfectness leaves no chance for error,hence leaves no scope for learning something.
this means either sanskrit has been around for eons unknown that it achived the perfectness or that it is something that is not of human origin.
talking about what john has to put forward to he seems to be blindly going by the sources he has read and not trying to be someone ready to take on and research the new stuff he is getting his brains on.
then again thats what i personaly think.
the greatest thing in the end is something that benefits all of the humanity not personal egos.
September 5, 2008 at 11:15 am
Dear All,
From what I read, John and the theory he uses seems to be open to falsification.
He admits to its flaws, but as he said, that is the best we have. He has in fact invited all to either prove the Mother-Sanskrit theory and/or to disprove the PIE theory using the comparative method; Or to disprove the Comparative Method Theory and/or suggest a better replacement.
Proof of any scientific theory rests with its falsification. It is true till the next person comes, evaluates it and proves it wrong in a controlled state (Studying a conclusion of an enquiry by keeping all but one variable constant, and changing that variable)
Unfortunately,with linguistics and especially in absence of any written records, it becomes difficult to precisely apply the controlled state, in such cases we have to rely on maximum probability.
Nowhere is John stating that Latin would have been closer to the IE language than Sanskrit; for all you know Sanskrit maybe 80 % similar to the IE language.
All John is saying is that under the examination of current scientific inquiry ( Comparative Method ), it is highly unlikely that Sanskrit, as we know of it to have existed in its pure form, is the mother of All/European languages.
Dear Indians,
Although I am proud to see the patriotism and cult(ure) following of Sanskrit. Let us not be closed to scientific inquiry; let us not for a moment forget that India was a great country when we were leading scientific inquiry. And scientific inquiry shouldn’t lend itself to democracy or popular belief; Galileo was jailed because of such a thing.
We do not want to be viewed as people who live in the past and shout down any scientific methods because they do not agree with our sense of history. If something doesn’t agree with us, we either put our ingenious Indian Mind to it and disprove it scientifically, not by votes or public outcry.
If you talk of written Sanskrit being a refined or a very precise optimised language, it surely wasn’t born that way, call the child whatever at birth(PIE, RAJU or TOM).
Till we can either accept the current line of scientific thinking or prove it wrong; Let us be proud in the fact that we were the ones to refine an archaic language like the PIE which would have existed before us.
I agree (even John will), that there have been a lot of misrepresentations and destruction of our culture by successive invading powers, Europeans and other wise.
But, kindly notice the fact that inspite of these, scientific inquiry has still persisted and called the bluff of many a misrepresentation.For eg. no one and especially John will never dare to suggest that Latin is the mother of Sanskrit because they are similar, and I am sure John or any liked minded scientific enquirer would be willing to shout down, nay patiently explain, to anyone who says that Latin is the mother of Sanskrit / All languages.
So, my dear Indian brothers and sisters please proceed to rip me apart for being a voice of concern. I have put my own name with surname and not a alias and here’s my email address as well chirag_1 <> hotmail <> com
Satyamev Jayate (Truth and Only the Truth shall Triumph)
September 12, 2008 at 7:33 pm
I was impressed by this topic.But i want to share my opinions about this topic.People think that sanskrit has lot of influence on north indian languages and not on dravidian languages,I have a different opinion.If we take shiva he is worshipped from Rameshwaram to amarnath.
Shiva being vedic (rudra) is still worshipped the rudram(from vedas) are still recited in these temples throghout the country.
And now to cholas.Karikala chola had his court language as sanskrit ie (the karikala shaasanam)Raja raja chola a great shiva diety buids brhadeeshwar temple,63 nayanmars ,the periya puranam is all about this shivas devootees.There are still veda pada shallas in tamil nadu where you can learn how to pronounce vedas.Though people forgot their meanings,there are people in south india who know to recite vedas.
Intrestingly what i want to make a point is that,if sanskrit had no influence on the so called ‘dravidians’ why where their dieties vedic.
September 22, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Sivar is ancient and first king of both Kilrathi and Kzinti, and he is not any god at all.
October 24, 2008 at 4:50 pm
i would say that is that it is a quite nice and trustable content and iwill also say it will change many peoples view on languages prospect.i am hoping that this site will able to find many mile stones for indo-european languages.
October 25, 2008 at 9:30 am
hey jhon what;s up?
iwant to clear the things straight,do you really think that sanskrit is the mother of all pie languages?.well iwill say that if you go to find the answer you will find that the clues supporting the statement is quiet weak than the statement against it.so it is clear that ’sanskrit’is not an mother but a most well reconstructed language among all the i.e.languages,more importantly its grammatical reasoning is more perfect than any other.iwill also say that the sanskrit we know today is not the real ‘adamly original’language that it was when the nordic(aryan)people first arrived in northern india,and for that i have an opinion;
we all know that the dravidian people had excellant iq so they created the sindhu-harappan civiligation which was the first ever city based civiligatin of the human history.in city of patna(bihar,india)a very ancient clay pot was discovered which has the letters of ‘early sanskrit’.the letters are quite similar to the greek and latin letters and and of coures with sanskrit,but interestingly the letters have no upperstokes,a very un common thing for sanskrit,so what does it indicates?,the answer is that proper sanskrit before becoming the sanskrit we know had no such grammatical power.the power was created after the arrival of aryans, dravidians really helped the language to become as perfect as it is now,because for them(also for the austric mundas)the aryans were same to god,so the gods languge must be well preserved,it is preseved just like a computer code.
now ihave some words which are quite similar to others(i.e.l)’
1;take a word for good fortune,it is luck
in hindu dharm there is a goddes of good fortune and money known as luckshmi.
take aword for big plants it is tree
in sanskrit it is taruh.
the latin word mulah is money
in sanskrit word mulya is the worth price of something.
i hope you will rad this and give a reasonable reply.
November 2, 2008 at 9:09 am
Its pathetic that we still believe in Aryan invasion theory.
first we need to understand that most historians are only guessing and imposing their perspectives on us.
I read a book
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=DM58BhuR2KwC&dq=gods+sages+kings&pg=PP1&ots=CBX0LspKBp&source=bn&sig=MfNoVPjleO3Dyj5P3GJeqo9oS1Y&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPP1,M1
which gave me new perspective about our culture.
why do we always depend on western people to decode our history?
November 3, 2008 at 10:20 am
a nother authentic theory is that the migration.
see if you think and try to understand the relation betwwen all the aryan languages,you will find that it is not about raceit is not aboutbreaking the codeit is about to get to a position where you can bravely say “yes it is the truth” .
but the problem is that in our minds we are still proning the racial issue.
it is not about “invasion” it is about to know the”satya”(truth).
what venkat has said it is still a racial thought,if you think it deeply you will surely able to find it.
now forgett it and see what i think about atopic;
migration.
the migration is the thing that created the languagestic changes among the”aryan tribes”
the tribes which created all the aryan civilizations we know now.
the peoles group which first came to the northern parts of india perhaps migrated much lesser than any other tribes.
which indicates that their ancestral place was much closer to india or northern india.
if you dont belive the comments imade you can check the great russian archaeologist prof.victor sarianidis proven thoughts on net to know more.mr.sarianidi is currently working in karakumbh,where”he has founded somthing that very few archeologists have succeeded to find–
a lost civilization”.
November 4, 2008 at 9:40 am
’sanskrit speaking peoples ancestral land was quiet close to north india.thats why the migration didnt created much difference to the possible mothertounge and sanskrit remained the most noble language of them all.’
November 5, 2008 at 8:24 pm
look iam not racial in any sense.
my point is that, all the persons we mention are european indologists,possibly they don’t have a clue about sanskrit during 1700’s-1800’s because all of them belonged to a different culture.According to them polytheism was sin… and so on and so forth.As you see i mentioned a book in my previous post by david frawley.
i guess you din’t go through the first chapter.
any way give a try.
you say whatever an european say is “sathya” and what ever indians say is ‘asathya’
how come you come to such a conclusion.
even europeans are humans,they too can make flaws.
like newton said light was particle,then came electromagnet theory..then quantum…so on.
i think many indians really blindly believe european scholors of colonial times and do not research or atleast try to think on their own as a result most indians always feel fellow indians are pathetic and they prise europeans.
such is the attitude we have.
to make you clear visit following sites
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY4Q2xx7BTc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2vhCPBjqcA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMlisMg4VPo&feature=related
research and findings are not always 100 pecent true.what is true today may be untrue tommorow.
first people thought world was flat,they they found it was a sphere so on.
so what i am saying is that we should hav an open mind and so should not underestimate ourselves because the europeans says so
November 5, 2008 at 8:46 pm
My belief is that people have bad impressions about our ancient system.They think caste system was bad.so every thing related to ancient India was tribal and primitive .
but i dont think so.The fundamental flaw in our thinking is that caste doesn’t separate people,its peoples mind that separates.
people says caste divides so it should be banned.
we have lots of problem all over the country.People fight for languages.Tamil speaking guy hates hindi wala.Maratis hate biharis so language divides us so as result according most people we should all stop speaking different languages so that there will be no fight.
lets take america.it has no castes,do you think there is no problem there.
there is a great divide between classes in usa.Rich and middle class fight,so people fight because of money.Does removing or banning money any solution.
similarly power divides people,and so do political parties should we ban them all and talk bad about all of them.
look money,power,language everything has a purpose.and so does caste.The problem does’nt lie in them to blame them,the problem lies in peoples minds.
November 7, 2008 at 5:00 pm
DIVITION OF CASTES STARTED BY THE WORK SEVERAL PEOPLE DID IN THE FIRST HUMAN SOCIETY.BUT THE ‘MANAGATAH’DIVITION STARTED BECAUSE OF IMPERIALISTIC ETHICS AND ALSO WITH THE CORRUPTION OF VEDIC SOCIETY IS WELL.
November 10, 2008 at 2:03 am
Sivar Eshrad was performed properly and repatedly on many Kilrathi planets, including Kilrah homeworld itself but nowhere in Bharat placed on our planet Earth called by Kilrathi as Nak’tara. When and where you saw Sivar Eshrad or something alike in Rameshwaram, Amarnath, Bhradeeshwar, Periya? Nowhere. Thus without Sivar Eshrad any support for Kilrathi ancestor Lord Sivar in India is pointless. Additionally, Bharati can have in future serious political and security problems with our Terran Confederation since year 2416 in future. Supporting of Kilrathi ancestor – Lord Sivar by some Terrans, for example Bharati when Terran Confederation will be at war with Kilrathi will be treated and judged severely as grave treason of state punishable very seriously by sending traitors into worst battles against Kilrathi.
November 11, 2008 at 8:04 pm
R u by any chance non indian?
in india shiva means auspicious one(sanskrit).
see here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva
what ever things you say about kilrathi is fictional
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilrathi
shiva is a vedic god,whise fearful form is called rudra,whose peaceful form is called shiva.search for rudram on google.Rudram is a part of krishna yajurveda.yajurveda is one of the four vedas.
November 11, 2008 at 8:26 pm
to discuss more about shiva
listen to rudram
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pBUiOlrTMU
To Download rudram’s meaning
http://melbourne.saievents.info/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8&d=1166669938
November 11, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Not only this he is worshipped in most of the upanishads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upanishad
for more details see
http://www.celextel.org/108upanishads/
for those guys who dont know why some people smear ashes on their foreheads in india see Kalagni Rudra Upanishad
http://www.celextel.org/108upanishads/kalagnirudra.html
so don’t say bharat has no connection to shiva.
November 11, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Adi shankara was an ardent believer of lord shiva
he composed so many shlokas on lord shiva
shiva pnchakshari being one of them
see here:
http://www.astrojyoti.com/shivapanchaksharistotram.htm
November 11, 2008 at 8:42 pm
venkat Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
November 11, 2008 at 8:04 pm
R u by any chance non indian?
in india shiva means auspicious one(sanskrit).
see here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva
what ever things you say about kilrathi is fictional
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilrathi
shiva is a vedic god,whise fearful form is called rudra,whose peaceful form is called shiva.search for rudram on google.Rudram is a part of krishna yajurveda.yajurveda is one of the four vedas.
November 11, 2008 at 8:51 pm
in india shiva means auspicious one(sanskrit).
see here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva
what ever things you say about kilrathi is fictional
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilrathi
November 11, 2008 at 9:55 pm
i would like all of you to see this page
http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/indology.htm
its difficult understand our culture when there is so much politics involved to distort our history
November 11, 2008 at 10:03 pm
see this too
http://www.geocities.com/dipalsarvesh/1.html
November 12, 2008 at 9:49 am
IF SHIVA IS AN PROTO INDO EUROPEAN GOD THEN WHY WE FOUND THE EXISTENCE OF ‘PASHUPATIH’(ANCIENT GOD OF SINDHU-HARAPPAN CULTURE)?
November 14, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Its not so simple you see each an every god has more than thousands of name.
shiva,pashupati,rudra,umapati,brahadeehwara.
shiv in fact according to shivapurana has 1008 names.
just as vishnu in vishnu sahasra(thousand in sanskrit) nama(names).
pashupati can again be split into pashu +pati
November 14, 2008 at 4:06 pm
pashu(animals including even humans) in sanskrit.
pati(lord)
so pashupati means lord of all animals(including humans).
if you want a deeper meaning,then ill briefly explain,like animals we run behind worldly desires in that process forgetting who god is,he holds our lives with a chord,just like how a cowboy herds his cattle.and satisfaction only come at his feet.(This what hindus think of lord shiva)
November 14, 2008 at 4:08 pm
if you still have doubts about pashupaati==shiva then see this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashupatinath_Temple
November 14, 2008 at 4:10 pm
And for thousand and eight names of shiva see
http://blogs.ebay.in/devshoppe/entry/1008-Names-of-Lord-Shiva/_W0QQidZ273784015
November 14, 2008 at 4:19 pm
listen what he sings
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=enWkY8gF7hk&feature=related
bolo natha umapathey,shamo,shankara,pashupathey
each word is a name of lord shiva.
November 14, 2008 at 4:44 pm
In tamilnadu alone there are more than 108 major shiva temples of ancient times.And in each place his name differs
for example Raja raja chola built a big temple
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brihadisvara_Temple
here shiva’s name is Brihadisvara(lord of universe)
November 14, 2008 at 5:04 pm
I found this intresting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katasraj_temple
Pakistan asking world heritage status for shiva temple
November 14, 2008 at 5:40 pm
http://www.geocities.com/dipalsarvesh/1.html
as this book says europeans cannot understand our culture.we are seeing our through an european vison(which is very crude)
To know about ancient India visit
http://www.geocities.com/dipalsarvesh/index.html
November 14, 2008 at 7:18 pm
http://www.geocities.com/dipalsarvesh/1.html
as this book says europeans cannot understand our culture.we are seeing our culture through an european vison(which is very crude).Read the above book and see.Atleast give it a try.
To know about ancient India visit
November 14, 2008 at 7:18 pm
To know about ancient India visit
http://www.geocities.com/dipalsarvesh/index.html
November 15, 2008 at 9:12 am
just look at this you tube video about how bronze statues of shiva are made sing shilpa shastra
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=Q52u4rs3_sI
November 15, 2008 at 9:13 am
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=kKYi7A3cgSU&feature=related
November 15, 2008 at 10:05 am
GODS THE IDEA OF 1000 NAMES OF GODS IS NOTHING BUT BOGUS, THUS SUCH KINDS OF IDEA ONLY IMFLECTS THE IMPERIALISTIC THINKINGS OF RELIGION.
BUILDING 1000 NAMES BY ADDING STORIES IS A PART OF THAT. SO EVERY RACE OF INDIA GOES UNDER HINDU ‘DHARAM’. THE STRENGTH OF HINDU DHARM THEN INCREASES(AS CORRUPTION WITH OTHER RACES).
AS FOR ME THERE ARE SOME REAL ARYAN GODS;
1.AGNI 2.MARUT 3.DOUH 4.ADITI 5.VUG 6.BAUH 7.SOAM 8.PUSHUNH 9.ADITYAH GUN10.SURYAH11.ARJAMAH12.SARASVATI13.USAH14.BRIHASPATI15.YUM16.ASVI DOYH17.BRUMHANSPATI18. BISHNUH19.SAVITAH20.RUDRAH(YOUR SHIVAH)21.RATRIH22.BARUNAH23.PRITHVIH(EARTH)24.TVASTAH25.PARJANHYA .
rest are just worhless.
November 15, 2008 at 10:13 am
A NOTHER EXAMPLE IS ADDING BUDDAH AS THE TENTH ‘AVATARH’ OF BISHNU. THE REASON OF THAT TO BRING BUDDHA DHARM UNDER HINDU DHARM, BUT THE FUNNY THING IS THAT BUDDHA DHARM IS A PROTESTANT TO CORRUPTED HINDUDHARM.
November 15, 2008 at 10:40 am
Hindu dharm is not corrupted its just your way of thinking that has been corrupted.
if you still cling to the western idea of thinking,you can never appreciate Hindu dharm.
Its not a monotheistic idea of god can only be jesus or allah.God can take any name any form,I think its more liberal and more philosophical
November 15, 2008 at 1:01 pm
i think it was a true in mahatma gandhi that made him say eeshwar allah tere nam sab ko sanmati de bagwan.
so according to your logic he is too corrupt.
November 17, 2008 at 9:49 am
i didnt say that hindu dharm corrupted. i said different races with connecting aryans on the last days of vedic culture gifted us the hindu dharm we know now
November 17, 2008 at 10:01 am
listen mahatma gandhi said those words to give india the unity what required then badly for the nation.i said the word to indicate the evolution of the aryans and their ‘DHARM’ in this country.
November 18, 2008 at 12:23 am
Sivar is ancient and first king of both Kilrathi and Kzinti, and he is not any god at all, because he is only member of one of many species, which never were older than our Universe.
Sivar Eshrad was performed properly and repatedly on many Kilrathi planets, including Kilrah homeworld itself but nowhere in Bharat placed on our planet Earth called by Kilrathi as Nak’tara. When and where you saw Sivar Eshrad or something alike in Rameshwaram, Amarnath, Bhradeeshwar, Periya? Nowhere. Thus without Sivar Eshrad any support for Kilrathi ancestor Lord Sivar in India is pointless. Additionally, Bharati can have in future serious political and security problems with our Terran Confederation since year 2416 in future. Supporting of Kilrathi ancestor – Lord Sivar by some Terrans, for example Bharati when Terran Confederation will be at war with Kilrathi will be treated and judged severely as grave treason of state punishable very seriously by sending traitors into worst battles against Kilrathi.
Here are shown the lord Sivar and his things related to himself, how they are bravely and fiercely supported on Kilrah, compared with his very weak support on Terran country Bharat. Note that lord Sivar on Earth is much more softened in comparison to his real appearance properly preserved on Kilrah and Nargrast:
Lord Sivar, destroyer of worlds depicted very mightily and powerfully as he REALLY looks by his brave Kilrathi followers: http : / / www . wcnews . com / newshots / full / wcart6a . jpg
Lord Sivar, destroyer of worlds depicted very softly and filigranous as he really never ever looked by his mild Terran followers: http : / / www . balagokulam . org / images / la-siva . jpg
Prince Thrakhath nar Kiranka, the hard fang of Sivar, destroyer of worlds: http : / / www . wcnews . com / articles / mythicarchiving / mythicarchiving40t.jpg
Prince Siddhartha Gautama, the soft tooth of Sivar, destroyer of worlds: http : / / 1.1.1.1 / bmi / www . crystalinks . com / buddhablue2.jpg
Massive fortress of Sivar in Kilrah Imperial Space, planet H’rekkah: http : / / wedge009 . net / wc / wcp / introduction . jpg
Filigran palace of Sivar outside Kilrah Imperial Space, planet Nak’tara (Earth): http : / / www . srikumar . com / tdtemplecochin / udyaneswara . jpg
November 18, 2008 at 9:37 am
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LANGUAGE AND RELIGION IS SIGNIFICANT. I THINK WHAT MR.TOLWYN HAS SAID IS SPOT ON AND TRULY ACCEPTABLE. SEE WE ALL WAYS HAVE TO REMEMBER ‘GOD IS A CREATION OF HUMANS TO LIFT THEIR SOULS UP’.
November 18, 2008 at 2:29 pm
The Kilrathi are a fictional race of warlike, feline extraterrestrials in the popular computer game series Wing Commander by Origin Systems.
They loosely resemble the Kzin from Larry Niven’s Known Space universe. The Kilrathi are native to the planet Kilrah with their society depicted as an empire.
see they are fiction.Tolwyn Geoffrey i am taking about shiva from vedas.yes i accept your kilrathi sivar is not related to sanskrit
But shiva comes from vedas.rig,yajur..vedas.
November 18, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Well nirjar dude you still don’t get it.
you should read what vivekananda says about our dharma
At the World’s Parliament of Religions, Chicago
11th September, 1893
Sisters and Brothers of America,
It fills my heart with joy unspeakable to rise in response to the warm and cordial welcome which you have given us. I thank you in the name of the most ancient order of monks in the world; I thank you in the name of the mother of religions; and I thank you in the name of millions and millions of Hindu people of all classes and sects.
He says hindu dharma is “mother of all religions”.
Instead of seeing sanskrit and our tradition from westerners point of view see how vivekananda views it.
November 18, 2008 at 2:40 pm
well i too believed in ‘GOD IS A CREATION OF HUMANS TO LIFT THEIR SOULS UP’ till two years ago,but things changed,i realized there are lot of things i did’nt know about my culture.
http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/volume_1/vol_1_frame.htm
after reading vivekanandas works my perception about dharma changed.
November 18, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Read this article too
http://www.americansanskrit.com/read/a_sacred.php
This article says why is sanskrit is so special after all.
see these links too
http://www.americansanskrit.com/read/a_techage.php
http://www.americansanskrit.com/read/a_sutras.php
November 18, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Read this article too
http://www.americansanskrit.com/read/a_sacred.php
This article says why is sanskrit is so special after all.
November 18, 2008 at 2:49 pm
see these links too.
http://www.americansanskrit.com/read/a_techage.php
http://www.americansanskrit.com/read/a_sutras.php
November 18, 2008 at 3:07 pm
see what what vivekananda feels about vedanta philosophy
http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/volume_2/vol_2_frame.htm
November 18, 2008 at 4:05 pm
visit
Dr. Frank Morales, Ph.D.
(Sri Dharma Pravartaka Acharya)’s web site
http://www.dharmacentral.com/aboutfm.htm
and see his videos on you tube
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=fOYWBnW2YFo&feature=related
November 18, 2008 at 4:05 pm
visit
Dr. Frank Morales, Ph.D.
(Sri Dharma Pravartaka Acharya)’s web site
http://www.dharmacentral.com/aboutfm.htm
November 18, 2008 at 4:06 pm
And see wahat he says about sanatna dharma on you tube.
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=fOYWBnW2YFo&feature=related
November 18, 2008 at 4:10 pm
see his explanation about god(conception of hindu)
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=tOer2hQI2LU&feature=related
November 18, 2008 at 4:17 pm
who is Dr. Frank Morales, Ph.D.
and what is sanatana dharma
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=3Rc9jMgH-OE&NR=1
November 18, 2008 at 4:27 pm
all his videos are good
what is shradha?
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=AQKe_xdjZA0&feature=related
November 18, 2008 at 4:35 pm
see this too
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=AQKe_xdjZA0&feature=related
November 19, 2008 at 1:47 am
Kilrathi Sivar (cognate to Terran Shiva) both first on Kilrah and second on Earth is called “destroyer of worlds”, thus interrelation is obvious. Examples:
http : / / www . wcnews . com / articles / mythicarchiving / index . shtml
“Prince Thrakhath nar Kiranka, the fang of Sivar, destroyer of worlds.”
http : / / www . rjgeib . com / thoughts / shiva / shiva.html
“…now I am become Shiva, the destroyer of worlds…”
As you see, supporting Sivar called here Shiva can lead to future severe governmental problems of Bharati people with Terran Confederation security services and being sentenced for treason of Earth by Terran Confederation law, for example for lifelong service in punishment regiment sent to most deadly battles against Kilrathi. Additionally, true Kilrathi/Kzinti ancestor Sivar will treat his earthly depictions as unorthodoxly weak and soft, comparing to orthodox power/hard depictions of Sivar by Kilrathi.
November 19, 2008 at 9:49 am
dont tell me about vivekananda. he had an I.Q. OF AMAZING 200+. WHICH YOU DONT.
November 19, 2008 at 5:10 pm
JUST GIVE ME ANSWER OF VERY SIMPLE QUESTIONS.
1.ABOUT SIGNIFICANCE OF THE SACRED DRINK SOMA.
2.POSITON OF THE DRINK IN TODAY’S UNCORRUPTED
‘HINDU DHARM’.
3. IN WHICH PART OF INDIA DOES IT GROWS ?
4.EATING BEEF MEAT AS A SACRED AND HEALTHY FOOD IN VEDIC CULTURE.
5.WHY AS ‘HINDU’WE CANT EAT IT ?
6.WHY BEEF MEAT WAS A TREAT FOR INDRAH?(AS WRITTEN IN VEDAS SLHOKS)
AND AT LAST
7.SCIENTIFICLY PROVEN ORIGIN OF SANSKRIT.
(IT IS FOR YOU VENKAT AND FUNTOO).
November 20, 2008 at 4:05 pm
in case i think you have no answers or have to rely on net.
November 20, 2008 at 4:52 pm
As Tolwyn Geoffrey wrote above, because false pagan god Sivar named on Earth as false pagan god Shiva belongs originally to false race of false Kilrathi cats, whole hinduism is a false CAT FAITH, but never true human Catholic faith.
November 22, 2008 at 5:50 pm
FOR ME SANSKRIT IS THE MOST WELL HERITATED LANGUAGE AMONG ALL THE LANGUAGES IN THIS WORLD AND ENGLISH IS THE MOST UNITY POWERED LANGUAGE AS NOW AND ALSO FOR THE FUTURE.
November 22, 2008 at 7:50 pm
In Hinduism
See also: Chandra
In Hindu art, the god Soma was depicted as a bull or bird, and sometimes as an embryo, but rarely as an adult human. In Hinduism, the god Soma evolved into a lunar deity. The moon is the cup from which the gods drink Soma, and so Soma became identified with the moon god Chandra. A waxing moon meant Soma was recreating himself, ready to be drunk again. Alternatively, Soma’s twenty-seven wives were the star goddesses, the Nakshatras – daughters of the cosmic progenitor Daksha – who told their father that he paid too much attention to just one of them, Rohini. Daksha subsequently cursed Soma to wither and die, but the wives intervened and the death became periodic and temporary, and is symbolized by the waxing and waning of the moon. Monday is called Somvar in Sanskrit and Sanskritic languages, such as Hindi and Gujarati, and alludes to the importance of this god in Hindu spirituality.
The Sushruta Samhita localizes the best Soma in the upper Indus and Kashmir region.[2]
source wikipedia
November 22, 2008 at 7:54 pm
yes vivekananda was very intelligent and iam not,my point is he says he loves he thinks “hinduism is mother of all religions”
so if a 200+ iq guy thinks like that,there must be some truth in it.
November 22, 2008 at 8:00 pm
short story what vivekananda said
WHY WE DISAGREE
15th September, 1893
I will tell you a little story. You have heard the eloquent speaker who has just finished say, “Let us cease from abusing each other,” and he was very sorry that there should be always so much variance.
But I think I should tell you a story which would illustrate the cause of this variance. A frog lived in a well. It had lived there for a long time. It was born there and brought up there, and yet was a little, small frog. Of course the evolutionists were not there then to tell us whether the frog lost its eyes or not, but, for our story’s sake, we must take it for granted that it had its eyes, and that it every day cleansed the water of all the worms and bacilli that lived in it with an energy that would do credit to our modern bacteriologists. In this way it went on and became a little sleek and fat. Well, one day another frog that lived in the sea came and fell into the well.
“Where are you from?”
“I am from the sea.”
“The sea! How big is that? Is it as big as my well?” and he took a leap from one side of the well to the other.
“My friend,” said the frog of the sea, “how do you compare the sea with your little well?”
Then the frog took another leap and asked, “Is your sea so big?”
“What nonsense you speak, to compare the sea with your well!”
“Well, then,” said the frog of the well, “nothing can be bigger than my well; there can be nothing bigger than this; this fellow is a liar, so turn him out.”
That has been the difficulty all the while.
November 22, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Sri Aurobindo (Bengali: শ্রী অরবিন্দ Sri Ôrobindo) (August 15, 1872–December 5, 1950) was an Indian nationalist, scholar, poet, mystic, evolutionary philosopher, Yogi and spiritual Guru
see how he interprets vedas
Interpretation of the Vedas
One of the most significant contributions of Sri Aurobindo to Hinduism was his setting forth an esoteric meaning of the Vedas. The Vedas were considered by some to be composed by a barbaric culture worshiping violent Gods. Sri Aurobindo felt that this was due to a [biased view of Western scholars][3] who had preconceived views on Hindu culture.[citation needed]
Sri Aurobindo believed there was a hidden spiritual meaning in the Vedas. He viewed the Rig Veda as a spiritual text written in a symbolic language in which the outer meaning was concerned with ritualistic sacrifices to the gods, and the inner meaning, which was revealed only to initiates, was concerned with an inner spiritual knowledge and practice, the aim of which was to unite in consciousness with the Divine.
In this conception, Indra is the God of Mind lording over the Indriyas, that is, the senses (sight, touch, hearing, taste etc). Vayu represents air, but in its esoteric sense means Prana, or the life force. So when the Rig Veda says “Call Indra and Vayu to drink Soma Rasa” the inner meaning is to use mind through the senses and life force to receive divine bliss (Soma means wine of Gods, but in several texts also means divine bliss, as in Right-handed Tantra). Agni, the God of the sacrificial fire in the outer sense, is the flame of the spiritual will to overcome the obstacles to unite with the Divine. So the sacrifice of the Vedas could mean sacrificing ones ego to the internal Agni, the spiritual fire.
Sri Aurobindo’s theory of the inner spiritual significance of the Vedas originally appeared serially in the journal Arya between 1914 and 1920, but was later published in book form as “The Secret of the Veda.” Another book, “Hymns to the Mystic Fire,” is Sri Aurobindo’s translation of the spiritual sense of many of the verses of the Rig Veda.
November 22, 2008 at 8:50 pm
before atempting to answer your list of questions.
I want to ask you some
1.Did you translate vedas by yourself?.
2.if you didn’t then who did?.
3.vedic hymns is said have been told by rishis who where in heighest spiritual state,may be possibly like that of buddha,do you think you whould able to understand what ever they say ?(possibly you are in that state too)
November 22, 2008 at 8:53 pm
as you dont read my full posts
this is what sri aurobindo says
In this conception, Indra is the God of Mind lording over the Indriyas, that is, the senses (sight, touch, hearing, taste etc). Vayu represents air, but in its esoteric sense means Prana, or the life force. So when the Rig Veda says “Call Indra and Vayu to drink Soma Rasa” the inner meaning is to use mind through the senses and life force to receive divine bliss (Soma means wine of Gods, but in several texts also means divine bliss.
November 22, 2008 at 9:00 pm
I suggest you study rig vedas from good books
http://books.google.co.in/books?hl=en&id=mXUnfsqhi1AC&dq=The+Secret+of+the+Veda&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=4nfNokAwyv&sig=WFkDtZADIh-U4cUmEPA5tAC2uiY&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPP1,M1
November 24, 2008 at 4:47 pm
you have no scientific personal approach.
November 25, 2008 at 3:05 pm
i suggest you study rig veda from good books
http://books.google.co.in/books?hl=en&id=mXUnfsqhi1AC&dq=The+Secret+of+the+Veda&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=4nfNokAwyv&sig=WFkDtZADIh-U4cUmEPA5tAC2uiY&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPP1,M1
November 25, 2008 at 3:10 pm
whatever you say it becomes scientific,whatever i say is not scientific.
well dude tell me whats your scientific approach
November 25, 2008 at 3:11 pm
http://books.google.co.in/books?hl=en&id=mXUnfsqhi1AC&dq=The+Secret+of+the+Veda&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=4nfNokAwyv&sig=WFkDtZADIh-U4cUmEPA5tAC2uiY&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPP1,M1
rig veda book
November 25, 2008 at 9:17 pm
antu
I am with anu, and too unni and anjali
Di you know, that anu and antu are married, as sitchin says?
November 25, 2008 at 10:46 pm
You heretics that are calling yourselves anu and antu, you are thinking that you are false sumerian (and other) gods that never existed at all. Repent and convert to Catholic Church, and cease to take role of false sumerian (and other) pagan gods, along with all your false pagan religion(s). You are risking great punishment from One True God in Three Persons: http : / / www . giftstor . org / tomkiel05fst . html if you do not cease and desist your deadly heresies.
November 26, 2008 at 9:38 am
my approch is to belive by proofs.and dont call me dude my age is 11.
November 26, 2008 at 8:36 pm
so you are not dude you are a kid.And kids never understand any thing they only believe their textbooks and think that whatever it says is true.Actually texts are also written by persons(humans)who have their own prejudices.
November 26, 2008 at 8:41 pm
actually kids need to know that whatever they call “science” is not entirely based on proofs.science also makes assumptions in lot of areas.In communication scientists assume noise to be of gaussian type.
There are also so many models,like first model,second model and so on,each model improves accuracy but each is not 100% accurate.
November 26, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Any way what is proved today to be true can be proved to be false tommorow.Because each scientist has his own view.Newton thought light as a particle,later maxwell said light was an electromagnetic wave,then some one says its quantum particle(photons,phonons)
see science itself is a variable(not a constant)today there will be a technology,tommorow there will be a superior technology…In short science has no END.
November 26, 2008 at 8:55 pm
And finally many german and french scientists themselves praise hinduism and vedas
see here
http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/extra/bl-indiacomments1.htm
and there is no rule that scientists should not be philosophers.In fact most scientists are themselves great philosophers
November 26, 2008 at 8:56 pm
And finally many german and french scientists themselves praise hinduism and vedas
see here
http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/extra/bl-indiacomments1.htm
November 26, 2008 at 8:57 pm
what scientists believe about vedas and hinduism
see here
http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/extra/bl-indiacomments1.htm
November 26, 2008 at 9:03 pm
scientific verification of vedas
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=rY4Q2xx7BTc
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=G2vhCPBjqcA&feature=related
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=FMlisMg4VPo&feature=related
November 26, 2008 at 9:03 pm
to see scientific verification of vedas see
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=rY4Q2xx7BTc
November 26, 2008 at 9:04 pm
see in you tube for scientific verification of vedas
November 29, 2008 at 5:56 pm
every one have to under stand in todays world that age is not a factor but fact for full of suprises.
November 29, 2008 at 6:05 pm
for to have real veda gyan (tranrlated from the original)read RAMESH CHANDRA DUTT’S ‘RIGVED SANHITAH’
AS WE ALL KNOW ‘THE STONGEST REASONING IS IN FACT THE TRUTH’.
OH YES a nother thing, every one cant bother the truth can?.
November 29, 2008 at 6:29 pm
VENKAT I KNOW YOU HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR OUR ANCIENT CULTURE, which every indian should have.
our proto vedic culture was indeed the greatest by the form of language,heritage,sikhshya in everything, but it is not so that in today. in today we are just following west which i think is a waste specially in thinking. but you are different ithink you like the swami VIVEKANANDA PATH whch i also follow from my heart.
but the problem is your biswas is the vedic and hindu culture is ours, but it came from outside.
YES the seed of our culture is not indian but for sure indian subcontinental, thats why it is not fully indian thats why it is not european its INDO-EUROPEAN my friend its INDO-EURPPEAN.
BUT DOESNT MATTERS FROM WHERE IT CAME THE fact is where it is now which is enough.
we just require to synthesis it and the lost glory of the culture will come like SUN RAYS to shook the world,(which luckly has started 200+ years ago by an non indian in race but indian in true heart SIR WILLIAM JONES).
November 30, 2008 at 3:39 pm
yes i too agree age is not important.The problem i feel is most Indians are not aware of their own culture.A Muslim knows what his religious book is,a Sikh knows,a Christian knows about his religious books and scriptures,but a Hindu doesn’t.For the past sixty years we are following a path which was paved by the British.And the major losers are Hindus. so we are compelled to imitate(emulate) west.
November 30, 2008 at 3:54 pm
SIR WILLIAM JONES,max muller and so many people you say may never have experienced hindu culture which according to me is purely vedic.I really have a major doubt with their theory.They start from old vedic traditions,then they go to mouryas,guptas then the Buddhist rulers ashoka,then they skip to moguls.But they never highlight guptas indeed followed shaivism(worship lord shiva).Abhinav gupta a great philosopher has done so many works about shiva yoga.Leave that ,they could never explain why Buddhism deteriorated in India.They couldnt understand vedic culture did a come back in India after Aadhi shankara who re-established vedic culture all over India.
He established six vedic culture sub classes(shan-mathas)shavism(for shiva),vaishnavam(for vishnu),shaktam(for shakti),surya,ganapati,kumara(kartikeya) and so on.Even today we worship shakti in bengal,ganapati in maharashtra,chat puja for surya in bihar,shiva and vishnu all over India
November 30, 2008 at 3:59 pm
its not about the ‘ADHYATTIC’IT IS A thing to be proven by pure reasonings.
November 30, 2008 at 4:00 pm
And finally i don’t care whether this vedic traditions originated in present India, Pakistan or central Asia,I will follow it because this is what my forefathers followed for 3000 years according to western scholars.But times immemorial according to Vedas.
November 30, 2008 at 4:12 pm
see more about Adi shankra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Shankara
adi shankara even though he was born in kerala,his entire work is entirely in Sanskrit.See his maneesha panchakam to atleast have an idea about how our ancestors thought.
November 30, 2008 at 4:13 pm
see also abhinava gupta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhinava_Gupta
November 30, 2008 at 4:15 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Shankara
November 30, 2008 at 4:19 pm
search in wikipedia for adi shankara and abhinava gupta.Read their works from the net by searching in Google.There are so may proofs available,but we(Indians) sit and wait for some foreigners to come and do research and reiterate what we already know.
December 1, 2008 at 2:26 am
Samskrta’vak nar Sivar:
Ek’rah skabak erg Thrak’Kilrah maks Rag’nith. Kir’kha n’ikh rakh k’har, Sharhi nar Hhallas. H’as aiy’hra n’hakh ri’kahri krikajj, nai korekh sha’yi. Trav’hra’nigath. Ja’lra rash’nakh h’rai? Va ka garga ka naru ha garga. Huma ta Humas. Kilrah Tugaga Jak-Ta Haganaska duka Vikyah. Kamekh ni’lakh, ki’ha rakra Nak’thar’ra. Krajksh nai variksh h’hassrai? K’rakh drish’kai rai h’ra! Kilrath’ra rakh, walhi drathrik. Hrashra ni’lakh rakhta. Fralkra himekh Nak’tara, maks`thar dai 234576, 376867.
December 1, 2008 at 10:03 am
THINGS WE ARE DICUUSSING MAINLY DOES NOT BELONGS TO THE ORIGIN OF THE LANGUAGE BUT BELONGS TO WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE ESTABILISHMENT.
LOT S OF STORIES AND HEROES WAS CREATED TO STRENGHTHEN THE POWER OF THE SPREADING DHARM, TAKE A EXAMPLE OF’MAHABHARATA’ PROBABLY INDEED THE GREATEST EPIC OF ALL TIME. BUT MAHABHARATA IS NOT THAT VAST AS IT IS TOLD.
IT IS QUITE POSSIBLE THAT TRIBES FOUGHT WARS TOGETHER TO GET SUPREMACY BUT IN TRUTH WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THE STORIES AND ITS CHARECTERS ARE THE THEMES OF OUR LIFE RESPONSIBILTIES AND KARM FUHL IN GREAT MANNER.
December 1, 2008 at 1:21 pm
stories could be told,but i am not telling these guys are great because of folklore.If you could read their works,you will understand truly how great their philosophy was.
http://sanskritdocuments.org/all_pdf/manishhaa5.pdf
to me there is no greater philosophy than advaita(non dualism)
December 1, 2008 at 1:22 pm
stories could be told,but i am not telling these guys are great because of folklore.If you could read their works,you will understand truly how great their philosophy was.
To me there is no greater philosophy than advaita(non dualism)
December 1, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Any way it seems according to you jessus,mohammud…etc are just creations of people to strengthen their own religion.
But according to me these guys must have really existed,for the simple fact our ancestors would never lie like the present day politicians.
December 1, 2008 at 1:45 pm
And about mahabharat,
I think its the ego of every younger(or newer)generation that makes it think that it is far more superior to older generation that spoils our way of perception about our history.Today I am able to program in computer my grandfather didn’t even know how to use computers when he was at my age.So most of us perceive that our generation is far more superior to our grand parents.I wouldn’t dare to say that all the older generation people were fools.If I could use computers and blackberrys it doesn’t make me einstien (who dindt use computers).Nor can I say Neils Bhor was unintelligent.
This iconoclasm and strong ego stops us from perceiving our history properly.Western Scholars always try to fit every thing according to evolutionary theory,and so we even before studying whats said in ancient epics come to conclusion that our ancestors were primitive people,Kauravas and pandavas were tribal people,they could never have seen ocean,they must have thought a river to be ocean etc and so forth.I think this ego limits our thinking ability.
This ego is with every generation and don’t be surprised in future when your sons generation thinks your generation to be primitive.
December 1, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Linguistic sample of “Samskrta’vak nar Sivar” = “Sanskrit of Shiva” cited above by Sivar proofs clearly both stylistically and linguistically, that “Samskrta’vak” = “Sanskrit” and that “Sivar” = “Shiva”. It is obvious, that Bharati paganism, especially Sivar’ra = Shaiva is intelligence agenda of Kilrah Empire, that has nothing to do with us.
December 1, 2008 at 5:17 pm
well mr.tolwyn i agree with you.and v i think only guy have EGO is you.
December 1, 2008 at 5:20 pm
and v another thing do yog whIch i do regularly, mind it IT really helps to get rid of anger and your ‘EGO’.
December 1, 2008 at 5:24 pm
IF YOU DONT KNOW yog then see ASTHAA’ CHANNEL for SWAMI RAMDEV,WHO ITHINK IS NOTHINK BUT AN—–genius.
SORRY FOR THE WORDS AND’dont take it on mind, take it in hands’.
December 1, 2008 at 5:28 pm
AND AT ‘ LAST I WILL SAY FOR EVERY ONE’old is gold’ ISN’T IT?
December 1, 2008 at 9:41 pm
In EXTREME and only case, because “old is gold”, Proto-Indo-European and Adamic belief in One God = Most Holy Trinity is most valuable. See here:
http : / / indo – european . eu / wiki / index . php / Adamic _ language
http : / / en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Image : Holy _ Trinity _ scheme . svg
http : / / en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Image : Holy _ Trinity _ interpenetration . png
Anything newer than abovementioned topics, that goes against them is less valuable, being only silver.
December 2, 2008 at 1:41 am
I don’t need your medieval superstitions such as HARRY POTTER, YOGA, WITCHRAFT, WARLOCKING, SORCERY, WIZARDRY, TANTRA, MIGHT&MAGIC, OCCULT, TARAKA, DUNGEONS&DRAGONS, FREEMASONRY, FORTUNE TELLING, SATANISM, OUIJA, SPELL CASTING, etc… for anything, I am MODERN TERRAN CONFEDERATION SCIENTIST and I know that these superstitions are against modern high-tech scientific world.
December 2, 2008 at 1:52 am
I don’t need your esoteric Kilrathi primitive superstitions for example such as:
“There shall come a time when one who has the heart of a Kilrathi, but is not Kilrathi born, shall rain cleansing fire down upon us. And Kn’thrak, a time of great darkness, shall embrace us.
Death itself shall pour forth, obscuring the stars in a veil of darkness. Theirs is the claw that tears flesh from bone.
Theirs is the poisoned fang.
Their numbers shall rend the universe barren and crush the breath from our clans. We shall be bathed in our own blood and rotted flesh shall be our fare. With a deafening thunder shall the dark age begin. – The Tome of Sivar”
and similar. I am modern Terran and I defy such esoteric superstitions.
December 2, 2008 at 7:48 am
WE are not talking about kilrathi at all.All kilrathi stories are imagined one used in computer games.Dont mix it with the Indian culture.
December 2, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Both Indian and Kilrathi things are imagined and fictitious, because they are mirroring each other, and because they are used in games and sects designed by freemasons and their new world order to remove Catholic Christian Truth. Only Catholic Church along with its Proto-Indo-European/Adamic language and its belief in One God = Most Holy Trinity is really true at all. See here:
http : / / indo – european . eu / wiki / index . php / Adamic _ language
http : / / en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Image : Holy _ Trinity _ scheme . svg
http : / / en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Image : Holy _ Trinity _ interpenetration . png
Anything other than abovemelinked true topics, that goes against them is fictitious, being only promoted by freemasonry and their new world order to destroy Catholic Christian Truth.
December 2, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Happy to know nirjar likes yoga atleast.
December 2, 2008 at 4:37 pm
so konard you say that only christianity is truth and all other religions are false?
Following is an excerpt from Swami Vivekananda ‘s views on Polytheism.
“ Descend we now from the aspirations of philosophy to the religion of the ignorant. At the very outset, I may tell you that there is no polytheism in India. In every temple, if one stands by and listens, one will find the worshippers applying all the attributes of God, including omnipresence, to the images. It is not polytheism, nor would the name henotheism explain the situation. “The rose called by any other name would smell as sweet.” Names are not explanations.
As we find that somehow or other, by the laws of our mental constitution, we have to associate our ideas of infinity with the images of the blue sky, or of the sea, so we naturally connect our idea of holiness with the image of a church, a mosque, or a cross. The Hindus have associated the idea of holiness, purity, truth, omnipresence, and such other ideas with different images and forms. The whole religion of the Hindu is centered in realisation. Man is to become divine by realising the divine. Idols or temples or books are only the supports, the helps, of his spiritual childhood: but on and on he must progress
He must not stop anywhere. “External worship, material worship,” say the scriptures, “is the lowest stage; struggling to rise high, mental prayer is the next stage, but the highest stage is when the Lord has been realised.” One thing I must tell you, Idolatry in India does not mean anything horrible. It is not the mother of harlots. On the other hand, it is the attempt of undeveloped minds to grasp high spiritual truths.
The whole world of religions is only a travelling, a coming up, of different men and women, through various conditions and circumstances, to the same goal. Every religion is only evolving a God out of the material man, and the same God is the inspirer of all of them. Why, then, are there so many contradictions? They are only apparent. The contradictions come from the same truth adapting itself to the varying circumstances of different natures. It is the same light coming through glasses of different colours. And these little variations are necessary for purposes of adaptation. But in the heart of everything the same truth reigns “
December 2, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Most Holy Trinity states clearly that Catholicism and only Catholicism is really true. Rest of religions are false and from hell, and as such are future components of “one world religion” planned by masonic new world order and his antichrist maitreya. http : / / www . giftstor . org /tomkiel05fst . html Refusal of conversion to Catholicism is equal to spending eternity in hell, because such refusal is ontologically equal to eternally prolonged denial of Most Holy Trinity, too ontologically equal to hate, because Most Holy Trinity is LOVE.
December 3, 2008 at 9:54 am
VENKAT I THINK MARBURG HAS NO IDEA ABOUT WHAT A RELIGION IS.
MARBURG YOU HAVE TO UNDER STAND THE FACT THAT WHATS YOUR ‘HOLY’CATHLICISM IS JUST A CHILD UNDER OUR HINDU VEDIC CULTURE.
December 3, 2008 at 10:24 am
and marburg a nother thing jesus christ actually lived in kashmir(INDIA)to stay alive in his last days and its also proven.
AND AT LAST I WILL SAY THAT MOST OF THE IDEA OF YOUR ‘HOLY’ CAT(H)OLICISM IS A SMALLER PART OF WHAT IS SUGGESTED IN VED UPANISHADS 1000 to 10000 years back of JESUSES birth.
December 3, 2008 at 10:32 am
TO KNOW THE POWER OF HINDU DHARM marburg YOU HAVE TO READ SWAMI VIVEKANANDA, HAVE TO READ UPANISHADS .THEN AFTER YOU WILLBE A ‘liter etured’man but i think it willbe little tougher for you.
December 3, 2008 at 10:34 am
our vedic hindu dharm is the greatest in the earth.
December 3, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Hindus never say their religion is the only true religion,they respect every religion and every god.They don’t insult other religions and are hence are more liberal and civilized than those who claim their religion is the only true religion.This is the reason Hindus are truly secular to the core than others who baptize people to covert,who do crusades and jihads to conquer other nations on the basis of religion.Hinduism has no process like baptization to convert people from other religion.
“akashat pathi thin thoyam yada gathchati sagaram sarva deva namaskaraha keshavam prati gatchati”
December 3, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Don’t blaspheme against Holy Mother Catholic Church! You are calling God’s Punishment by your unholy blasphemies! Catholicism has within Its Holy Range original Proto-Indo-European human language from before Babel:
http : / / indo – european . eu / wiki / index . php / Adamic _ language
while you have within your range only secondary confused dialects descended from PIE.
Catholicism, which includes its previous stages such as Judaism, Abrahamism, Noahism and Adamism is really oldest ever religion of the world that dates back to Adam and Eve. Today’s jewish faith is equivalent of protestant/orthodox sects, and broke from Catholicism when Catholicism was in previous Judaic stage.
December 3, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Jesus Christ is One God in Three Persons:
http : / / en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Image : Holy _ Trinity _ scheme . svg
http : / / en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Image : Holy _ Trinity _ interpenetration . png
Jesus is Omniscient and Omnipotent and He has nothing to do with your dirty money$, dharm$=firm$, businesse$, etc… which thinks only how to make dirty $$$$.
December 3, 2008 at 2:08 pm
As Tomas de Torquemada said above, Catholicism along with its previous stages is oldest ever world religion. Jesus – One God in Three Persons suffered on Cross and resurrected Himself for our Salvation made by directly opposing original sin. Cross Virtue and original sin are directly opposite as follows:
Suffering on Tree of Cross by Jesus Christ while making only Virtues such as Forgiveness, Learning Good, etc…
is directly opposite to
eating |fruit of knowledge of bad and good| by Adam and Eve from |tree of knowledge of bad and good| for purpose of learning how to sin and sinning
December 3, 2008 at 4:52 pm
we have to know also that sanskrit is also the mother of all folk stories from robinhood to cindrella etc.
READ THIS:Human language is based on grammatical rules. Cultural evolution allows these rules to change over time. Rules compete with each other: as new rules rise to prominence, old ones die away. Language theorists and linguistic experts generally agree that Greek, Latin, Persian, Arabic Hebrew, Chinese and Tamil are “complete language systems”. Therefore conferring of the title of a “classical language” follows the fulfillment of certain requirements from the language in question:
…Its origins must be established as having occurred over a long time ago. Of course the older, the better.
…It should possess an independent tradition that arose mostly on its own and not as an offshoot of another tradition.
…It must have a large and extremely rich body of ancient literature.
Although calling Sanskrit the mother of all languages or the originator of folk stores is questionable, the rich body of literature is certainly worthy of exploring by everyone. Then too as time progresses and we find more archaeological evidence and have further study, certain myths or misconceptions about Sanskrit are dispelled, so we will discuss a few points and provide sufficient citations for your own exploration and determination.
Archeologists at Harvard, Oxford and other top universities in the US and Europe are now widely agreed that there was no invasion of India from the outside that displaced the peoples of the Sarawati and Indus river valleys. This civilization arose within northern India and there is also evidence that the Vedic civilization arose in India many millennia before the speculative mythologies of the past suggest.
Sir William Jones now famous statement in February 2, 1786 is below:
…the Sanskrit language, whatever be its antiquity, is of a wonderful structure; more perfect than the Greek, more copious than the Latin, and more exquisitely refined than either, yet bearing to both of them a strong affinity, both in the roots of verbs and in the forms of grammar, than could possibly have been produced by accident; so strong, indeed, that no philosopher could examine them all three, without believing them to have sprung from some common source, which, perhaps, no longer exists.
The Rig Veda mentions the Indus river quite often and it mentions the Saraswati no less than 60 times. Its reference to the Saraswati as a “mighty river flowing from the mountains to the sea: shows that the Rig Vedic tradition must have been in existence long before 3,000 BC. Satellite photography and geological field studies show that the river described in the Rig Veda which had long disappeared from the maps of modern India did in fact exist as an ancient river running from the Himalayas to the western gulf of the Indian ocean, roughly paralleling the course of the Indus, but lying to the east of the Indus.
Sarasvati has been regarded as a river goddess in the ancient tradition and recently is the Goddess of inspiration and beauty in Creation too. She is also the consort of Brahma, the Hindu god of creation. To move through her yantra is to discover the essence of creativity in speech, music and the visual arts, and thus to experience the enlivening of these qualities within the Self.
Penny Lea Mackie has graciously given us permission to use her creation.
We certainly encourage our readers to visit Sacred Images which is a unique collection of original fine art and poster reproductions. As you will find within the web site, not only are the images rooted in healing traditions, but Sarasvati has held a particularly prominent place in Penny Lea’s heart since she first read of Sarasvati’s position as deity in 1972. Penny Lea has done three Sarasvati yantra. Her website is undergoing radical re-construction starting mid-January, after which she will have a much-expanded offering of images not as posters, but as signed/numbered archival prints, and printing on canvas, silk.
There are other compelling reasons found in recent archeology, satellite photo’s and under sea exploration which suggest that the Sanskrit language is much older than what was previously suggested by the speculative mythologies of the past.
Texts handed down by oral tradition may predate their fixation in written form by several centuries, or, in extreme cases, even millennia. Classical Antiquity is usually considered to begin with Homer, in the 8th century BC. Many older literary texts are known, but often difficult to date. This includes the texts in the Hebrew Bible, the Pentateuch being traditionally dated to the 15th century BC, while modern scholars put it to the 10th century BC at the very earliest. An early example is the so called Egyptian Book of the Dead which was eventually written down in the Papyrus of Ani around 250 BC but probably dates from about the 18th century BC.
Literature in Sanskrit, India’s oldest language, and the mother language of several modern languages in India. Given its extensive use in religious literature, primarily of Hinduism, and the fact that most modern Indian languages have been directly derived from or strongly influenced by Sanskrit, it is not surprising that the position of Sanskrit in Indian culture is not unlike that of Latin in European culture. Sanskrit has a long tradition of literature.
THE GRAT POET:
Kalidasa and Sanskrit literature
By common assent, Kalidasa is one of the world’s supreme poets. Apart from Sunkuntala, however, which was known to Goethe and Apollinaire, Kalidasa’s work is not well represented in European books or the Internet. Scholars even dispute Kalidasa’s dates, though he clearly wrote for a highly-civilized princely court, either of the 5th century AD Guptas or the 1st century BC Paramara dynasty. Only a few works are undisputably by Kalidasa – plays: Malavikaagnimitra, Vikramorvashiiya and Abhigyaanashaakuntala; epic poems: Khumaarasambhava and Raguvamsha; lyric poems: Meghdoot and possibly Ritusamhaara.
The Vedas are the ancient scriptures of the Hindu teachings, which manifest the Divine Word in the human speech. The Vedas contain the language of the Gods, which are the primary texts of Hinduism. There are four Vedas, each consisting of four parts. The Vedas contain hymns, incantations, and rituals from ancient India. The four Vedas are: Rig Veda, Sama Veda, Yajur Veda and Atharva Veda. It is however, only in the recent times that their spiritual teachings have been rediscovered.
The Rig Veda, the oldest of the four Vedas, was composed about 1500 B.C. in the Punjab (Sapta Sindhu) region and codified about 600 B.C. The Rig Veda includes a collection of the oldest form of all Vedic Sanskrit hymns (1,028 hymns), dedicated to Rigvedic deities. It is also the oldest book in Sanskrit or any Indo-European language. It was preserved in India over centuries by oral tradition alone and was probably put in writing after the early Middle Ages. While originally several different versions of the Rig Veda were said to exist, only one remains. Its form has been structured in several different ways to guarantee its authenticity and proper preservation through time.
Now dear reader explore the ancient Sanskrit citations below. Let your body, mind, soul and heart not be bound by early restraints and regain your child hood. Or the spirit of the Faerie in us all.
December 3, 2008 at 5:29 pm
As you said, because of course the older, the better, PIE is better than sanskrit, because PIE is older than sanskrit: http : / / indo – european . eu / wiki / index . php / Adamic _ language
December 3, 2008 at 8:31 pm
As you said, because of course the older, the better, Catholic Most Holy Trinity is infinitely better than all “gods” different from Catholic Most Holy Trinity, because Catholic Most Holy Trinity is infinitely older than all “gods” different from Catholic Most Holy Trinity.
December 4, 2008 at 8:05 am
Actually most of you guys are actually worshiping identity.God can have any name.Nirjar saw these posts,if these guys cannot understand simple facts how can they properly understand vedas and upanishads.
December 4, 2008 at 9:43 am
English Words You Speak from Sanskrit
The purpose of this is to show the relationship between Sanskrit and English. To simplify matters, I will be using root-words and words in their purer forms. There will be no need to demonstrate every inflected form of a word. Words placed in parentheses are those English words derived from Sanskrit. Sometimes, there will be mention of words from other intermediary languages, serving as a demonstration of changes in spelling and pronunciation.
Symbols used:
“resulting in” (a related word)
Note: In Sanskrit and classical Latin, v is sometimes pronounced as w, while the opposite is true in German. In Slavic languages, both letters are interchangeable.
D’s and T’s are interchangeable. Similarly, at times, B=P=F=V.
A-/AN-, (prefix) “not, without=Eng. A-/AN- (APOLITICAL, AMORAL; ANOREXIC, “without appetite”). The prefix A- also ends up in Nahuatl (Aztec).
AD > Goth. root AT, pres. ITA (EAT, ATE)
AKSHA, “axle, axis” > Ger. ACHSE
AKSHI, “eye”=Russ. OKO=L. OCULUS=M.E. EYGHE, “eye”. It is common for older English words spelled with a G to drop this letter and exchange it with a Y. (EYE; OCULAR; OCCULT, associated with the Evil Eye.)
AARYA, “people from Central Asia, noble, royal, master” (Aryan)
AASANA, “sitting” (ASANA, “a yoga posture”)
AN*KA, “bend, curve, hook” > L. ANCORA (ANCHOR)
ANTA, “end”
ANTAR, “within, between, among; in the middle” (INTER-NATIONAL, INTERIOR). Akin to ANTARA, “interior, other”. See I-TARA.
ANTI, “before” (ANTIPASTO, something eaten before the main course/pasta; ANTECEDENT, ANTERIOR). This is not the same as Eng. ANTI-, “”against”.
AP/APAS, “work” > L. OPUS/OPERA (OPERATE)
ARD, “make agitated, torment, kill” > L. ARDERE/ARSI, “be violently enraged, passionate; (countries), be in turmoil, at war” (ARDENT, “strongly emotional about”; ARSON)
AS, “to be”, akin to ASTI=L. EST=Ger. IST, “is”. Cf. L. ESSE, “be”, Eng. ESSENCE, ESSENTIAL.
ASHTA, “eight”=L. OCTO, Ger. ACHT (OCTAGON, OCTET, OCTOPUS)
-ATI/-ATE, a verb ending for the third person, singular, in the present tense. Cf. L. nuntiAT, facIT, docET. English has a cognate, as in “my cup runnETH over.”
AUM/OM, the magical, repeated sound used in Yoga
BAAD/VAAD, “bathe” > Old High German BAD, “bath”
BANDH, “bind around” (BIND, BAND, BANDAGE)
BARBARA, “barbarian, one with long hair” (BARBER)
BHAN~J, “break” > L. FRANGERE/FREGI/FRACTUM > Ger. BRECHEN (BREAK, FRACTURE, FRAGILE)
BHRAATHRA, “brother, fraternity” > L. FRATER (BROTHERHOOD)
BHRI, “to bear, carry away, endure” > L. FERRE, “bear”; Old Irish BRITA, “birth” (BEARABLE, BIRTH, TRANSFER, INFER)
BHRUU, “brow”
BHUJ, “bend down” > Anglo-Saxon BUGAN (BOW)
BHUU, “be” > L. FUIT/FUTURUS, forms of esse, “be” (FUTURE)
BHUUTI, “wealth, fortune”. Could this be related to Eng. BOOTY/BUTY, “anything plundered” [?]
BUDH, “awaken, communicate” (BUDDHA; BODHISATVA, “a saint, apostle”; BID L. CANDERE, “shine, be hot”; INCENDERE/INCENSUM, “burn, inflame emotions” (INCANDESCENT, CANDLE, CHANDELIER, INCENDIARY; INCENSED, “angry”)
C[H]AKRA, “wheel”, used to describe points of spiritual power.
CAR, “go, move, travel through, pervade” akin to CARYA, “driving in a carriage” (CAR, CHARIOT, CARRY)
CATUR L. DATA (DATA, “technical information”; DATE [pertaining to time]; DATIVE)
DAM, “tame”=L. DOMARE=O.E. TAM (INDOMITABLE)
DAMA “house”=L. DOMUS (DOMICILE, DOMESTICATE)
DANTA, “tooth” (DENTURE, INDENT)
DAARU, “wood” > Hindi DEODAAR Danish TORV (TURF; TURBARY, “land from which turf or peat is cut”)
DASHA, “ten” > Gr. DEKA (DECADE, DECAGON)
DHARMA, “law, path”, in that SVA-DHARMA, “self-law/path”, refers to modernusage wherein one must follow one’s own path/conscience (e.g. Dharma and Greg TV show)
DHRISHTA, “bold” > Lith. DRISTU > O.E. DURST, past tense of DARE, “be bold”
DHUNI, “roaring, sounding, boisterous” O.N. DUNA, “to thunder, give a hollow sound”(DUN, “to sound”, akin to DIN, “a noisy clamor, uproar”)
DHVAN, “become covered, extinguished, darken” > A.S. DVAN, “be extinguished” > Eng. DUN, “dark brown”
DHVANI, “roar, thunder” > Lith. DUNDETI. “to sound” (THUNDER, DUNDERBOLT)
DHVAN/DHVAS, “to fall to dust” > Ger. DUNST (DUST)
DIV, “shine” akin to DIVA, “heaven; DIVYA, “divine”; DEVA, “god” > L. DEUS, “god; DIVA, “goddess” Gr. DI- > L. DUO, Polish DWA, DWOI-, DWU-, (DUO, DOUBLE, TWIN; DICEPHALOUS, “two-headed”)
DVAAR, “door”
EKA, “the same, equal” > L. AEQUUS, “that which is the same” (EQUAL).
HARDA, “heart”.
GA, “go” akin to GANTI, GAN*GAA, “swift-goer” (GONE; GANGES [River]; O.E. GANG, “go”)
GAGGH, “laugh” (GAG, “laughing-stock”) [?]
GAURII, name of a Hindu goddess (see GARISH)
GO, “cow” (Old Saxon CO, Low German KO, “cow”. There is even a theory that GOD is derived from Skt. GO, because cows and bulls were symbolic representations of gods.)
GURU, “respected person”
HAARYA, “be robbed” akin to HARA, “destroying” (HARRY, “plunder; devastation”; HARASS)
HEKKI, “hiccup”.
I/IDAM, “this, that” > L. ID, “it”; IDEM, “same, identical” (IT, IDENTITY)
I/IR/IT, “go”=L. EO/IRE/II, pres. participle IENT-, “going”; ITER/ITINERIS, “a going, journey (ITINERARY; TRANSIT, “across-go”; TRANSIENT, “person ‘going-through’”)
I-TARA, “other”. Akin to ALTER, ALTERNATE. See ANTAR.
JAN, “produce (offspring, family), cause to be born, come into existence”, akin to JANAS, “race, class of people” > L. GENUS, “origin”; GENS/GENTIS, “clan” (CONGENITAL, GENETIC; GENTLE, “well-born, of good family, kind”; GENTILE, GENERATE, GENERATION, GENERIC, GENOCIDE, KIN/KIND; KINDERGARTEN, “childrens’ garden”)
KAKH, “cackle”
KAL, “count”, akin to KAALA, “a fixed point in time, time in general, proper season” > L. CALCULARE, “calculate” (INCACULABLE, CALENDAR)
KAALA, “black” (see geocities.com/richston2/lang99/influence.htm)
KAPAALA, “skull” > old Gr. KEPHALE, “head”=L. CAPUT,CAPITIS (PRECIPITATE, DECAPITATE; CAPO, “Mafia head”; ENCEPHALITIS, CAPTAIN, PER CAPITA)
KARMA/KARMAN, “act, result, effect” (KARMA)
KATH, “speak about” > O.H.G. QUETHAN (QUOTH, QUOTE)
KONA, “corner, angle, intermediate point of a compass” > Gr. GONOS/GONON, “-angled” (Eng. -GON, as in OCTAGON, POLYGON, figures which have corners and angles)
KRI, “make, accomplish, cause, effect, bring to completion” > L. CREARE/CREATUM, “bring about something” (CREATE, PROCREATE)
LAGHU, “light (in weight, on the feet, on the stomach)”
LAS, “play, frolic, sport”, akin to LASYA (LASCIVIOUS, “arousing sexual feelings”)
LIH akin to ALIKSHATI > Gr. LEIKHO (LICK)
LOK, “look”
LOKA, “place” (LOCALE, LOCUS, LOCOMOTION)
LUBH, “desire greatly, allure, excite lust” > L. LUBET, “there is desire”; LIBIDO, “a desire” (LOVE, LIBIDINOUS)
MA, “first person pronoun” (ME, MY)
MAA, “measure, compare”, akin to MAATRA, “measure”=L. METIRI/MENSUS (METER, COMMENSURATE; IMMENSE, “huge” ["not measurable"])
MAAS L. MUSCA (Sp. MOSQUITO, “small fly”)
MALA, “sin, moral filth” therefore > L. MALUS, “evil, bad” (MALICIOUS, MALADY)
MANAS, “mind” > L. MENS, MENTIS (MENTAL; MINT, “think”)
MANTRA, “incantation, song” (MANTRA, “a repeated word” e.g. om/aum)
MANU, “man”. After some reasearch, however, Oxford English Dictionary has decided this etymology is incorrect.
MASTA, “weight” (MAST, a weight)
MATRI, “mother”
MI/MITA, “mete out, meter”
MIIV, “move”
MIKSH > L. MISCERE/MIXTUS (MIX, MISCIBLE, PROMISCUOUS)
MRI, “die”, akin to MRITA, “dead” > L. MORI, MORTUUS (MORTALITY, MORTICIAN; MORTGAGE, “death=pledge”). See MUR.
MUR, “killer”, akin to MRI, “die” (q.v.) (MURDER)
MUUSH, “mouse”
NA/NIH/NED, “no, not”
NAKTA > Latin NOX/NOCT-, Ger. NACHT (NIGHT, NOCTURNAL)
NAMAN, “name”
NAPAAT, “offspring, (grand)daughter, grandson” > L. NEPOS/NEPOTIS (NEPOTISM, NEPHEW)
NAS, “nose” (NOSTRIL, NASAL)
NAU, “ship” akin to NAVYA (NAVY, NAVIGATE, NAUTICAL)
NAVA/NAVAN, “nine” (NOVENBER, the ninth month of a previous calendar; NOVENA, “a nine-day devotional with prayers”)
NAVA, “new”=Gr. NEOS=L. NOVUS (NOVELTY, NOVICE, INNOVATE, RENOVATE; NAPLES/NAPOLI [Italy]: neos + polis, “city”)
NU, “now”, probably related to NAVA, “new” (q.v.)
PAD, “foot”=L. PES/PEDIS (FOOT, BIPEDAL, “two-footed”; PEDESTRIAN, “foot-walker”; PEDATE, “having feet”; ARTHROPOD, “joint-foot creature”; OCTOPUS, “eight-footed creature”)
PANDITA, “learned, wise” (PUNDIT)
PAN~CHA, “five”=Gr. PENTA (PENTAGON, “five-sided figure”)
PARA, “far; previous (in time) (FAR, FORE-FATHER)
PARI-, prefix “about, near”=Eng. PERI- (PERINATAL, PERIMETER)
PATHA, “path”
PHAL > Ger. SPALTEN, “split”
PITRI, “father”=L. PATER (PAPA, PAPAL, POPE
POSHA, “prosperity, wealth, abundance”. Oxford English Dictionary offers POSH (noun), “money”, perhaps related to another noun, POSH (of uncertain etymology): “The suggestion that this word is derived from the initials of ‘port outward, starboard home’, referring to the more expensive side for accommodations on ships formerly traveling between England and India is often put forward but lacks foundation”.
PRA-, prefix “before, in front of”=Eng. PRE- (PREHISTORY, PREDICT)
PUU, “be bright,illuminate” > Gr. PUR/PURA, “funeral pyre=L. PYRA (O.E. FYR, “fire”; PYROMANIA)
PUUTA, “putrid”
PUUY, “stink” > Fr. PUER, “stink” (“PEE-YOO-EE!”; PEPE LE PEW, a smelly cartoon skunk)
RAAGA, “musical melody” (Eng. RAGA, “melodic formula of Hindu music”; RAG/RAGTIME [?])
RAAJ, “rule”, akin to RAAJA, “king”=L. REX/REGIS; L. REGERE/RECTUM, “rule, govern, direct” (RECTIFY, DIRECT, REGAL, REGULATE, RICHARD; RICH, “having great wealth, powerful”; Ger. REICH, “rich; empire, kingdom”)
RAANI, “queen”=Fr. REINE (REIGN. See RAJ, above)
RABH, with verb-form RAPSYATI, “seize, desire vehemently”, akin to RABHASA, “rapid, violent, desirous of” > L. RAPERE/RAPTUS, “seize, force violently, ravish, hurry” (RAPE, RAPTURE, RAPTURE, RAVISH, RAPID)
RAD, “gnaw, scratch” > L. RODERE, “gnaw”; L. RODERE, “scratch” (RAT, which is a RODENT.)
RAP, “speak” There is mention in Oxford English Dictionary of RAP, “utter, say, talk”, but the listing is under a verb RAP, “strike (a blow), knock with a rap”. Could there be a mistake involved? Could some more-modern Hindu word be the source?
RE, “a vocative particle (generally used contemptuously; often doubled)”. Cf. RI, “a sound inarticulate or repeated as in stammering”. Cf. [?] L. RE-, a prefix used to indicate repetition. However, Latin is supposed to be the original source of Eng. RE-, as in RE-THINK, RE-DONE, etc.
RI, second note of the seven-tone Hindu musical scale (Cf. [?] RE, second tone of Western, 7-note scale: do-RE-mi, etc.)
RISHI, a sage
ROMA, “Rome”, Italy
RUP, “break off” > L. RUMPERE/RUPTUS, “break” (RUPTURE)
SA, “she, that”
SAD, “sit, sink into despondency, despair” akin to SATTI, “sitting” > L. SEDERE (SETTLE, RESIDE, RESIDUE, SEDIMENT, SADNESS)
SAM, “together, in common with” (SYMPATHY, “together-mind”, in that there is a sharing of emotions.) See SAMA.
SAMA (#1), “same” (SIMILAR, SIMULATE) See SAM.
SAMA (#2), “any, every” (SOME)
SAPTAN, “seven” (SEPTEMBER, seventh month of the year in earlier calendars; SEPTENNIAL, “every seven years”)
SARPA, “serpent”
SATII, wife of Shiva > Eng. SUTTEE because of her faithfulness to him and how she cremated herself.
SHAALAA Fr. SALLE (SALON, SALOON)
SHARKARAA, “ground or candied sugar” (SACCHARIN, SUCROSE)
SHATAM, “hundred”=L. CENTUM (CENT, CENTURY, CENTIME)
SIV, “sew” > A.S. SEOWIAN, Goth. SIUJAN (SEW)
SMI, “smile”
SRIV/SRIIV/SHRIV, “to go/become dry; lead astray; frustrate, thwart; cause to fail”. Cf. Eng. [?] SHRIVEL, “become wrinkled, as from heat [dry up?]; be reduced to an inefficient condition; reduce to helplessness”. Oxford English Dictionary says this word derives from Swedish but is uncertain.
STHAA > L. STARE (STAND, STAY)
STHAG, “hide,cause to disappear” > Hindi THAG (THUG)
STHAL, “be firm, stand firm” (STILL)
SUUNU, “son”
SVA, “one’s own” > L. SE/SUA, Fr. SE/SOI/SA (SELF)
SVAAMIN, “spiritual master, teacher” (SWAMI)
SVAN, “to sound” (SONAR, SONI; SWAN, the bird [sic])
SVADU, “sweet”
SVASTIKA, “cross of good fortune, auspicious sign”, akin to SVASTI, a salutation meaning “be well” (SWASTIKA. Hitler perverted the original positive intention of the word)
SVID, “sweat” akin to SVEDA, “sweating”
TAANDAVA, Shiva’s Dance/”Ring around the Rosy”, > Hung. TANC > Germ. TANZ (DANCE)
TARU, “tree”
TAT, “that”
TRI-, prefix “three” (TRIPLE)
TVA, “you”=L. TU/TE/TUA, Fr. TOI (THOU, THEE)
TVAN’G, “tremble” (See TWANG near the end of this site.
UBHA, “both” > L. AMBO (AMBIDEXTROUS, AMBIVALENT)
UURDHVA, “elevated, high” > L. ARDUUS, “steep” (ARDUOUS, “steep”)
UURJ, “be strong” > L. URGERE, “exert pressure, subject (a person) to repeated verbal attacks (URGE)
VA, “wind” akin to VAANA, “blowing” > L. VENTUS, “wind” (WIND, VENTILATE, VENT)
VAACH, “speech” (VOICE, VOCAL)
VAH, “carry, travel by car” > L. VEHICULUM, VEHERE (VEHICULAR, WEIGH)
VAKSH, “be angry” (WAX)
VAM, “vomit”
VAN, “gain, conquer” (WIN)
VAS, “wear clothes” > L. VESTIS, “one’s own dress” (VEST)
VID, “perceive, observe”, akin to VEDA, sacred philosophical writings > L. VIDERE/VISUS, “see” (VIDEO, VISTA, VISION, PROVIDE/PROVISION, DIVIDE/DIVISION, DIVIDEND, VEDIC)
VIIR, “be strong, display heroism”, akin to VIIRA, “man”; VIIRYA, “manliness, semen, poison” > L. VIRUS, “poison” (VIRILE, “manly, strong”. To this we might add L. VIRGA, “rod”, which later turns into Eng. VERGE, “rod, penis”; WEREWOLF, “man-wolf”; VIRULENT, “poisonous”; )
YADA
YAHU (YAHOO, of Gulliver’s Travels)
YUJ, “yoke,join, bind”, akin to YUKTA, “joined”; YUKTI, “junction”; YUGA, “a yoke, couple” > L. IUGARE, “join, fasten”; IUGUM, “yoke”; IUNGERE/IUNCTUM, “join” (JOINT, JUNCTION; YOGA, “union”; YOGI)
YU/YUVAN (JUVENILE, YOUNG)
Sources:
Liddell, Henry George, and Scott, Robert. A GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON
Monier-Williams, Monier. A SANSKRIT-ENGLISH DICTIONARY
OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY, 2nd edition
OXFORD LATIN DICTIONARY
Stanislawski, J. ENGLISH-POLISH, POLISH-ENGLISH DICTIONARY Walker, Benjamin. THE HINDU WORLD
December 4, 2008 at 9:49 am
THEIR IS NO THING LIKE PIE YOU PEOPLE WILL NOT BELIVE THIS AS IT IS A TOUGH THING TO DIGEST .
AS PROF.BROWN SAID”SANSKRIT IS THE MOTHER OF ALL EUROPEAN LANGUAGES”.
December 4, 2008 at 10:10 am
THERE IS NOTHING TO UNDER STAND HERE MY FRIEND,ITS ONLY TO RELY ON FACTS.
VENKAT YOU ARE THE GUY WHO SEES EVERY THING IN’ADHYATTIC,WELL I AM THE GUY WHO SEES EVERY THING THROUGH ‘YUKTIH’.
December 4, 2008 at 11:31 am
speaking of ADHYATTIC(adhyathmic),i once again remember vivekananda’s explanation about patanjali’s aphorisms(yoga sutra)
http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/volume_1/vol_1_frame.htm
December 4, 2008 at 11:33 am
speaking of ADHYATTIC(adhyathmic),i once again remember vivekananda’s explanation about patanjali’s aphorisms(yoga sutra)
2. Yoga is restraining the mind-stuff (Chitta) from taking various forms (Vrittis).
A good deal of explanation is necessary here. We have to understand what Chitta is, and what the Vrittis are. I have eyes. Eyes do not see. Take away the brain centre which is in the head, the eyes will still be there, the retinae complete, as also the pictures of objects on them, and yet the eyes will not see. So the eyes are only a secondary instrument, not the organ of vision. The organ of vision is in a nerve centre of the brain. The two eyes will not be sufficient. Sometimes a man is asleep with his eyes open. The light is there and the picture is there, but a third thing is necessary — the mind must be joined to the organ. The eye is the external instrument; we need also the brain centre and the agency of the mind. Carriages roll down a street, and you do not hear them. Why? Because your mind has not attached itself to the organ of hearing. First, there is the instrument, then there is the organ, and third, the mind attached to these two. The mind takes the impression farther in, and presents it to the determinative faculty — Buddhi — which reacts. Along with this reaction flashes the idea of egoism. Then this mixture of action and reaction is presented to the Purusha, the real Soul, who perceives an object in this mixture. The organs (Indriyas), together with the mind (Manas), the determinative faculty (Buddhi), and egoism (Ahamkâra), form the group called the Antahkarana (the internal instrument). They are but various processes in the mind-stuff, called Chitta. The waves of thought in the Chitta are called Vrittis (literally “whirlpool”) . What is thought? Thought is a force, as is gravitation or repulsion. From the infinite storehouse of force in nature, the instrument called Chitta takes hold of some, absorbs it and sends it out as thought. Force is supplied to us through food, and out of that food the body obtains the power of motion etc. Others, the finer forces, it throws out in what we call thought. So we see that the mind is not intelligent; yet it appears to be intelligent. Why? Because the intelligent soul is behind it. You are the only sentient being; mind is only the instrument through which you catch the external world. Take this book; as a book it does not exist outside, what exists outside is unknown and unknowable. The unknowable furnishes the suggestion that gives a blow to the mind, and the mind gives out the reaction in the form of a book, in the same manner as when a stone is thrown into the water, the water is thrown against it in the form of waves. The real universe is the occasion of the reaction of the mind. A book form, or an elephant form, or a man form, is not outside; all that we know is our mental reaction from the outer suggestion. “Matter is the permanent possibility of sensations,” said John Stuart Mill. It is only the suggestion that is outside. Take an oyster for example. You know how pearls are made. A parasite gets inside the shell and causes irritation, and the oyster throws a sort of enamelling round it, and this makes the pearl. The universe of experience is our own enamel, so to say, and the real universe is the parasite serving as nucleus. The ordinary man will never understand it, because when he tries to do so, he throws out an enamel, and sees only his own enamel. Now we understand what is meant by these Vrittis. The real man is behind the mind; the mind is the instrument his hands; it is his intelligence that is percolating through the mind. It is only when you stand behind the mind that it becomes intelligent. When man gives it up, it falls to pieces and is nothing. Thus you understand what is meant by Chitta. It is the mind-stuff, and Vrittis are the waves and ripples rising in it when external causes impinge on it. These Vrittis are our universe.
The bottom of a lake we cannot see, because its surface is covered with ripples. It is only possible for us to catch a glimpse of the bottom, when the ripples have subsided, and the water is calm. If the water is muddy or is agitated all the time, the bottom will not be seen. If it is clear, and there are no waves, we shall see the bottom. The bottom of the lake is our own true Self; the lake is the Chitta and the waves the Vrittis. Again, the mind is in three states, one of which is darkness, called Tamas, found in brutes and idiots; it only acts to injure. No other idea comes into that state of mind. Then there is the active state of mind, Rajas, whose chief motives are power and enjoyment. “I will be powerful and rule others.” Then there is the state called Sattva, serenity, calmness, in which the waves cease, and the water of the mind-lake becomes clear. It is not inactive, but rather intensely active. It is the greatest manifestation of power to be calm. It is easy to be active. Let the reins go, and the horses will run away with you. Anyone can do that, but he who can stop the plunging horses is the strong man. Which requires the greater strength, letting go or restraining? The calm man is not the man who is dull. You must not mistake Sattva for dullness or laziness. The calm man is the one who has control over the mind waves. Activity is the manifestation of inferior strength, calmness, of the superior.
The Chitta is always trying to get back to its natural pure state, but the organs draw it out. To restrain it, to check this outward tendency, and to start it on the return journey to the essence of intelligence is the first step in Yoga, because only in this way can the Chitta get into its proper course.
Although the Chitta is in every animal, from the lowest to the highest, it is only in the human form that we find it as the intellect. Until the mind-stuff can take the form of intellect it is not possible for it to return through all these steps, and liberate the soul. Immediate salvation is impossible for the cow or the dog, although they have mind, because their Chitta cannot as yet take that form which we call intellect.
The Chitta manifests itself in the following forms — scattering, darkening, gathering, one-pointed, and concentrated. The scattering form is activity. Its tendency is to manifest in the form of pleasure or of pain. The darkening form is dullness which tends to injury. The commentator says, the third form is natural to the Devas, the angels, and the first and second to the demons. The gathering form is when it struggles to centre itself. The one-pointed form is when it tries to concentrate, and the concentrated form is what brings us to Samâdhi.
December 4, 2008 at 5:47 pm
well nothing is absolute in this universe my friend.
December 4, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Sanskit is too young and too modernistic at all. Proto-Indo-European is Adamic, most traditional and most primordial ever.
http : / / www . utexas . edu / cola / centers / lrc / ielex /
http : / / www . koeblergerhard . de / idgwbhin . html
http : / / indo-european . eu / wiki / index . php / Adamic _ language
Catholic Most Holy Trinity revealed to Anne Catherine Emmerich as follows:
“The first tongue, the mother tongue, spoken by Adam, Sem, and Noe, was different, and it is now extant only in isolated dialects. Its first pure offshoots are the Zend, the sacred tongue of India [Sanskrit], and the language of the Bactrians. In those languages, words may be found exactly similar to the Low German of my native place. The book that I see in modern Ctesiphon, on the Tigris, is written in that language.”
As you see, Catholic Most Holy Trinity declares sanskrit as confused descendant, but not as unconfused Adamic PIE protolanguage.
http : / / www . all – jesus . com / scriptures / bible1-4 . htm
Example cognates:
PIE nokwt- -> sanskrit nakt
PIE ster- -> sanskrit str
PIE penkwe- -> sanskrit pança
PIE wid- -> sanskrit veda
PIE qno- -> sanskrit jna
etc…
December 5, 2008 at 6:14 am
The `Aryan invasion` myth
“To lift the veil of the past, we must first lift the veil of our own minds. ”
The majority of western Ideologists have subscribed to the `Aryan invasion` hypothesis in one form or another ever since its popularity in the 19th century. Despite the lack of strong evidence in its favour, only recently has the balance of opinion begun to shift.
The theory initially came to prominence due to its apparent ability to relate between Sanskrit and other Indo-European languages, including Persian, Greek and Latin. After these similarities were first noticed in 1786 by the British judge and Sanskritist William Jones, researchers in comparative linguistics began to speculate about an original `proto-Indo-European` language. This language may have spawned later tongues, and the idea was proposed that a nomadic race of people, situated somewhere in central Asia, must have spread out in various directions, invading regions of Europe, the Middle East, and what is now the Indian subcontinent, and taking their language with them.
Scholars gave to this hypothetical race the label `Aryan`, from the Sanskrit word Arya. Arya is the term which appears in the Rig-Veda and elsewhere, and claimed that the presence of the Sanskrit language and of Vedic civilization in India was due to a forceful invasion. According to later versions of the theory, a more gradual migration by this central Asian race was also supposed as a possible reason instead of Invasion.
This theory which places the nation of India in the role of `victim` and denies an autochthonous origin to Vedic language and religions is unable to stand the new evidence from the Fields of archaeology and textual analysis. Still, it is important to at least mention some of the refuting arguments here, so that the subject of Indian soteriology, and of hatha-yoga in particular, may be clearly appraised and remain undarkened by the lone, shadow of a false hypothesis that explains the remarkable phonetic and grammatical similarities.
The First point to mention is that, in Vedic literature, the term arya does not in fact refer to a racial type or to a language, but is, `a title of honor and respect given to certain groups for good or noble behavior.` To support the invasion theory, passages of the Vedas that speak of a conflict between light` and `dark` powers had been interpreted as references to a literal battle between fair-skinned `Aryans` and darker-skinned `Dasyus`. The latter term being (wrongly) supposed to denote the Dravidian people most prominent today in South India. As Aurobindo makes clear, however, the conflict being described is a moral and spiritual, not a physical, one:
The Aryan is he who does the work of sacrifice, finds the sacred word of illumination, desires the Gods and increases into the largeness of the true existence. An aryan is the warrior of the light and the traveler to the Truth. The Dasyu is the undivine being who does no sacrifice, amasses a wealth he cannot rightly use because he cannot speak the word or mentalise the superconscient Truth, hates the Word, the gods and the sacrifice and gives nothing of himself to the higher existences but robs and with-holds his wealth from the Aryan.
Secondly, it should be remembered that there is no hard evidence for the invasion theory, only conjectures based on `soft` linguistic evidence, and this soft evidence is completely over-ridden by archaeological discoveries made during the 20th century. These discoveries include not only the well-known sites such as Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro located `along the banks of the Indus river, but also over five hundred ancient sites associated with the Sarasvat river, some of which are far larger than any Indus valley settlements.
“Sarasvati” is the name given to the major river described in the Vedas, and also to a Vedic goddess. Geological research has indicated that such a river used to flow from the Tibetan Himalaya down to the Arabian Sea, but that `major tectonic shifts…possibly accompanied by volcanic eruptions` led to changes of the river`s Course and its eventual drying up sometime around 1900 B.C.E.” What was once a fertile valley now forms part of the Thar Desert of north-west India and eastern Pakistan. Evidence gleaned from excavations of sites long hidden by the Thar sands suggests the existence of a culturally-advanced civilization throughout the Sarasvati-indus region stretching back to 6500 B.C.E., long before even the earliest proposed dates for an invasion from the north. Artefacts found at Sarasvat-Indus settlements show signs of a culture bearing a marked resemblance to that revealed in the Vedas, as well as a strong continuity with Hindu society thereafter. `This continuity` is evident in the religious ideas, arts, crafts, architecture, writing style, and the system of weights and measures.
These are all the facts that are hard to justify if we believe in Aryans being “foreign invaders who leveled the native civilization of the Indus Valley.”
Thirdly, textual analysis of the Vedas shows that a close correspondence exists between geographical and climatic features described therein and those of northern India as it would have been before the Saraswati dried up, a correspondence which also applies to the flora and fauna.
Furthermore, a comparative study of the Vedic Samhitas and the later Brahmanas and Puranas suggests that a large migration took place around 1900 B.C.E. away from the Indus-Saraswati region and towards the Gangetic plane to the east, not to escape the violence inflicted by some invading hoard, but because the rivers to the west had been `burned out` by the blazing heat of Agni (the Fire deity, perhaps in this case representing the heat of the Sun). Thus a plausible explanation exists for the abandonment.
Textual and archaeological evidence has given proof of existence of the Indus-Sarasvat settlements, which is supported by textual geological data.
Contrary to this establishment of the Aryan invasion hypothesis, the introduction of Vedic religion and culture into India had been assumed to have taken place sometime after 2500 B.C. Interpreters of the new evidence propose a steady development within the Indian subcontinent along the following chronological lines
6500-3100 B.C. E.: Early Indus-Saraswati civilization, early Rig-Veda.
3100-1900 B.C.E.: Mature Indus-Sarasvat civilization; period of the four Vedas;
1900-1000 B.C.E.: Migration of Indus-Saraswati civilization to the region of the Ganga river; late Vedic and Brahmana period.
While additional significant archaeological Finds no doubt remain to be made, the likelihood is that these will serve only to push the tentative dates proposed above back still farther into the ancient past, and not to undermine the basis of the new
Schematic.
Whatever future research throws up, the Aryan invasion myth can safely be consigned to the dustbin of history.
December 5, 2008 at 6:37 am
SEE this article also
(10) A fallacy that relates to the period
of the Vedas, Upnishads and the Puranas.
It has already been explained that the Vedas, the Upnishads and the Puranas are: (a) eternal and Divine, (b) firstly produced by the creator Brahma, (c) they are not the writings of any human being, and (d) all of them were again revealed and rewritten by Bhagwan Ved Vyas long before he revealed the Bhagwatam, which was sometime before 3072 BC. Sanskrit language is also eternal which was firstly produced by Brahma and then it was reproduced by Ved Vyas along with the Vedas and the Upnishads.
But, the western writers and also the encyclopedias wrongfully say that the Sanskrit language started around 1500 BC and the Vedas came after that, whereas the Puranas came at a much later date sometime between 400 and 800 AD. They call Ved Vyas as only a legendary figure. Not only that, they derogate Bhartiya religion by all possible means, mutilate the history and abuse the Vedas by saying they are the poetic compositions of some foreign Aryan tribe who spoke Sanskrit and came to India from a still-unknown land around 1500 BC; and a lot more misleading statements like these.
For the last 200 years such a wrong image of Hinduism is being injected into the innocent minds of the school-going children as well as in the minds of the research scholars all over the world who study Hindu religion. Someone has to take the lead to correct these wrong statements about Bhartiya religion and history and feed the correct information into the encyclopedias of the world and save millions of innocent seekers of truth whose spiritual progress is being hampered and paralyzed because of such negative informations that confuse their mind and damage their faith.
Let us now come to the reality and see how it all started. On the 2nd of February, 1786, a British jurist and a great scholar of Latin and Greek languages, Sir William Jones, who had also studied Sanskrit in India, gave a stunning speech in the Asiatic Society of Calcutta (Bengal) about the amazing similarity of some Sanskrit words with that of Latin and Greek, and the audience was thrilled with his skilled oratory and the style of the interpretation of his findings. But, in the end, he strongly asserted that, not Sanskrit, but there must be some other unknown common language from which all those languages must have originated.
Was he correct? No. Absolutely not. Because Sanskrit is the first language of the earth planet. Its root system of forming a word and its detailed grammar have no comparison with any of the languages of the world, and because it is the original language, so it is very likely that some of its daily spoken words could have been adopted by the other languages which itself is the evidence that Sanskrit is the mother language of the world.
But still his linguistic conjectures and skilled speculations led the other European linguists to proceed on the same lines. Thus, the term “Indo-European (or Proto-Indo European) language” was created, which factually never existed. (Article 23) In this way, the attention of the whole world was withdrawn from looking into the greatness of the Sanskrit language and was drawn towards the opposite side of the truth, which was like searching for water in a mirage in a desert.
December 5, 2008 at 7:03 am
IS LORD KALKI PREDICTED IN THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS?
Here are some additional interesting points to consider. There are verses from the book of Revelations in the Bible that are very similar to the above descriptions in the Puranas about Lord Kalki. These verses are so similar that they cannot be ignored and may provide additional insight for Christians and similarities they may share with Vedic culture. In Revelations (19.11-16, & 19-21) it states:
“And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, but no man knew but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat on the horse.”
This sounds so much like the incarnation of Lord Kalki that it could hardly be anyone else. Surely, by the time Lord Kalki appears, no one will have the slightest expectation of Him or His appearance. No one will know His name. And His army of brahmanas will be as pure as if they had descended from heaven. At the time of Lord Kalki’s appearance, He will kill the remaining miscreants and deliver the few saintly people from the present conditions of the earth, changing it back to the Golden Age of Satya-yuga. In this regard, Revelations (14.1-3) also describes:
“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb [a typical symbol for the Divine or an incarnation of the Divine] stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps; And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.”
One significant description in the above verses is that those who are redeemed from the earth will have God’s name written on their foreheads. This is a widespread custom of the brahmanas in India to write the name of God, such as Vishnu or Krishna, on their foreheads. This is tilok, which is usually put on with clay made from the banks of a holy river. We often see this in the middle of the forehead in the shape of a “V” which represents the name of God and that the body is a temple of God, or the three-lined markings of the Shaivites. The Vaishnava mark is made while reciting “Om keshavaya namaha,” which means “Salutations to Lord Keshava,” another name of Krishna.
So herein could be an indication that when the last of society is delivered from the earth during the end times, they will be those who wear the name of God on their foreheads, at least according to these verses. Also, as in accord with other Vedic prophecies, we can understand that there will be very few people left in the world who will have any piety at all. So it would fit in with the Vedic prophecies that by the time Lord Kalki appears, there may, indeed, be only 144,000 who will be left in the world worthy of being delivered from the godless and chaotic conditions of the earth. Or these may be the seeds of the new civilization that will start the beginning of the next age of Satya-yuga.
December 5, 2008 at 9:56 am
HERE IS SOME MORE EVIDENCE ABOT THE PuREST LANGUAGE OF THIS EATH:
It is no small wonder that the language which was used before thousands of years is being used today in the same way. There is no change in the structure or in the style of Sanskrit language and hence the old literature of the ancient India can be understood and learnt without slightest difficulty. The language of Ramayana and Mahabharata has not grown old or become outdated. Anybody with the rudimentary knowledge of Sanskrit can go through the great epics with the minimum possible efforts. The languages which are much much younger to Sanskrit have undergone so much changes that their original form has been lost in oblivion. The credit of this maintenance of Sanskrit’s eternal beauty through the ages goes to the great intellectual giant Panini.
These have all evolved from a single language (or, more immediately, a group of closely related dialects), namely ‘Primitive Indo-European’ or just ‘Indo-European’, spoken in about the third millenium BC, of which no direct record remains. The original Indo-European speakers seem to have been tribes inhabiting the plains of Eastern Europe, particularly the area north of the Black Sea (archaeological remains in the South Russian Steppes are in harmony with this supposition), from where migration subsequently occurred in many directions. With the discovery of Hittite, Sanskrit has ceased to be the oldest recorded Indo-European language: but for many reasons, including the fact that Hittite separated early from the main Indo-European stock, Sanskrit remains of central importance to the student of the history of the Indo-European language.
Sanskrit belongs, more specifically, to the Indo-Iranian branch of Indo-European. The other most important member of this branch is Persian. The earliest Indo-Iranian speakers are conveniently known as Aryans, from the name which they gave themselves (Sanskrit arya, Avestan airya – from the latter the modern name Iran is derived, while the name “Eire”, at the other end of the Indo-European spectrum, may also be cognate). Although it is reasonable to assume that the original homeland of the Aryan tribes was the north of the Caucasus, our earliest record of them comes neither from this region nor from the Indo-Iranian area but from south of the Caucasus, from the Mitanni kingdom of Northern Mesopotamia, where a ruling dynasty bearing Aryan names and worshipping Aryan gods such as Indra had established itself in the first half of the second millenium BC. However, the main movement of Aryan migration was not south but east into Central Asia, and from there by separate penetrations into Iran and India. Thereafter the Aryans of Iran and the Aryans of India went their separate ways both culturally and linguistically. The oldest stage of Iranian is represented by Avestan, the sacred language of the Zoroastrians, and by Old Persian, the dialect used in the cuneiform inscriptions of the Achaemenian kings.
In India, a highly evolved and urbanised civilisation had existed long before the coming of the Aryans. This was the ‘Indus Valley Civilisation’, known to us in particular from excavations at Harappa and Mohenjo Daro, and dating from at least the middle of the third millenium. The culture was stable over a long period, and literate. It came to a sudden end, and it is tempting in the extreme to attribute its destruction to the coming of the Aryans. However, an awkward time gap exists, and has not yet been successfully explained, for the Indus civilisation seems to have perished in about 1700 BC and there is no evidence that the Aryans reached India before the latter half of the second millenium.
The survival in Baluchistan up to the present day of a Dravidian language, Brhui, so far from what is now the main Dravidian area in Southern India, makes it reasonable to conclude that before the arrival of the Aryans Dravidian was spoken over a much wider area, and the suggestion has naturally been made that the inhabitants of the Indus cities spoke a Dravidian language. At present this remains unproved, unless recent claims of successful decipherment of the Indus script are accepted, and other non-Aryan language families do exist in India, most notably the group of Munda languages. Although the language of the Aryans established itself over most of Northern India, it seems that in the long run the Aryans were affected both culturally and linguistically by the peoples they conquered, and Dravidian and Munda influences (particularly the former) can be traced in the development of Sanskrit itself.
The speech introduced by the Aryans into India developed and diversified, and the major modern languages of Northern India (like Hindi, Bengali, Panjabi, Gujarati, Marathi etc.) are descended from it. The generic term for such languages is Indo-Aryan. One may conveniently divide the development of Indo-Aryan into three stages: Old, Middle and Modern.
Old Indo-Aryan is equivalent to Sanskrit only in the widest sense of the latter term, and is divided principally between Vedic and the later Classical Sanskrit. Our record of Old Indo-Aryan begins with the hymns of the Rgveda, which date back to at least 1000 BC and are the product of a considerable literary skill. That they were composed a fair time after the arrival of the Aryans in India is shown both by the absence of any reference to a homeland outside India and by divergences, principally phonetic, in the language itself from what can be reconstructed as the common Indo-Iranian tongue. Intermediate between the language of the Rgveda and that of the Classical period is the language of the Brahmanas, prose works which seek to interpret the mystical significance of the Vedic ritual, the earliest of them written well before the middle of the first millenium BC. The Upanishads are a part of the Brahmana literature.
With the passage of time the language of even the educated priestly class diverged more and more from that of the sacred hymns themselves, and it became increasingly a matter of concern that the hymns should be transmitted without corruption, in order to preserve their religious efficacy. Consequently, a study began to be made of the principles of linguistic, and more particularly of phonetic, analysis. from this developed a grammatical science which concerned itself not only with the sacred language but also with contemporary educated speech. The grammar of Panini, the Astadhyayi, usually attributed to the fourth century BC, is evidently the culmination of a long and sophisticated grammatical tradition, though the perfection of his work caused that of his predecessors to vanish. In less than 4000 sutras, or brief aphorisms (supplemented on points of detail by the grammarian Katyayana), he analyses the whole phonology and morphology of Sanskrit.
By Classical Sanskrit is meant essentially the language codified by Panini.
The Sanskrit of Panini´s time had the cachet not simply of being the dialect of the educated classes but also of being much closer than was the popular speech to the language of the sacred scriptures themselves.
The beginnings of Middle Indo-Aryan antedate Panini, for the speech of the ordinary people had been evolving faster than that of the educated classes. The term samskrta means ‘polished, (grammatically) correct’, and is in contrast with prakrta ‘(speech) of the common people’. Just as Sanskrit interpreted in a wide sense may conveniently stand for Old Indo-Aryan, so Prakrit, interpreted equally widely, may stand for Middle Indo-Aryan (morphological simplification accompanied by drastic phonological simplification, including a reduction in the number of vowels and a simplification of consonant groups).
As Middle Indo-Aryan developed and its various dialects drew further apart, the role of Sanskrit as a lingua franca grew increasingly important, and at a time when brahmanical influence was increasing. In the early centuries AD, first in the north and later in the south, Sanskrit became the only acceptable language both for administration and for learned communication. With the Buddhist Asvaghosa (second century AD), a master of Sanskrit literary stile, begins the great period of Classical Sanskrit, and it lasted for something like a thousand years. Part of the reason for Asvaghosa´s literary importance is that he is very nearly the only significant predecessor of the poet Kalidasa whose work has suvived. Kalidasa is commonly dated to the early fifth century, and on reading his poetry one cannot doubt that it represents the culmination of a great tradition; yet he is the earliest of the major classical poets. Perhaps, like Panini, Kalidasa eclipsed his predecessors and made their work seem not worth preserving.
By now Sanskrit was not longer a mother tongue but a language to be studied and conciously mastered.
Before the introduction of printing into India in the eighteenth century, the script in which Sanskrit was written and taught varied from place to place in India, and was the same, or almost the same, as that used in writing the local vernacular language. Well-travelled pandits might understand many forms of the alphabet, but the basis of Sanskrit tradition lay in recitation and oral communication. The widespread dessimination of printed Sanskrit texts, however, encouraged the predominance of one form of writing, the nagari (or devanagari) script of central India, in which the modern languages Hindi and Marathi are also written. Today even the most traditionally minded pandits are familiar with it, and Sanskrit publications of more than local interest are printed in no other script.
All the Indian scripts, however much elaborated in their forms, are developments over the course of centuries fro a single source. This was the brahmi script, written from left to right, first known to us from the inscriptions of the emperor Ashoka (third century BC). Its origin in unknown. Many suppose it to be an adaptation of the Semitic alphabet, but by the time of the Ashokan inscriptions the adaptation is already too thorough for positive identification. It reflects with considerable accuracy the phonetic structure of the Indo-Aryan languages. All later Indian scripts inherit its unusual graphic system; they differ from it and from each other selely as to the shapes into which the individual letters have evolved.
December 5, 2008 at 10:01 am
SANSKRIT AS THE DEVINE:
There are many aspects by which a language can be said as sacred and how we use it. If a language is used to discover the sacredness, purity and spirituality of life, it becomes a sacred language. Whether or not a language is sacred is determined by who is using it. This in turn has a great deal to do with whether a language is being used consciously or unconsciously, whether we use language as an instrument to accomplish our real purpose in life, that is, wake up and find out who we are; or we are unconsciously programmed by language, to maintain patterns of a struggle for individual survival established by previous generations.
People are always at the effect of the unconscious operation of any language. Suppose a group of people listen to some very simple Sanskrit sounds, sung in a rhythmic sequence, and then individually duplicate the sounds, based upon what they heard many times. Everybody will think that in “my turn” that there is little space left to actually listen and enjoy the sounds. This overriding preoccupation with getting it right is accompanied by an endless barrage of strategies, evaluations, comparisons, judgements, expectations, hopes, rationalizations and fears of consequences. By writing down this list of what everyone was thinking, the unconscious operation of language becomes visible.
Most people are not aware they are thinking all this until they see the language of it written on a flip chart. But this is just peeling away the first layer. There’s a still deeper layer of the unconscious operation of language where we have predefined who we are, based on whether or not we get it right.
We are given every opportunity to simply have a good time, improvise, play with sounds. But instead we choose to take it as a test of survival. In other words, it’s more important to prove our capacity to survive than it is to have a good time. The hidden unconscious language that we base our lives upon, dictates to us that we must get it right or we will be dominated by others, and that threatens our safety, our well being and ultimately our survival.
The first sign of a non-sacred, survival language is that it refers to “getting it right” as “smart”, as “success” etc. Such a language defines a person by the way he/she performs in a particular circumstance. The person is always at the effect of the language. If I get it right, I’m smart. If I get it wrong, I’m stupid. The problems and conflicts that occur with a survival language are myriad. To be happy, one must get it right all the time. And his primary motivation for doing so is to prove that he is brilliant so others won’t control him .. The problem with “getting better” is that he becomes programmed to always be getting better, but it’s never good enough. Getting better is an endless proposition. This survival model of language has conflict and suffering woven into its very fabric.
This particular phenomenon is defined in the Yoga Sutras as avidyaa, the fundamental lack of awareness which is the root klesha, or subtle cause of all suffering. The definition of avidyaa is: anitya-ashuci-duhkha-anaatmasu nitya-shuci-sukha-aatma-khyaatir avidyaa
“Avidyaa (ignorance) is an identity with a self which is not the self; with happiness in what is actually suffering; with purity in what is really impurity; and permanence in what is really impermanent.”
Avidyaa perfectly describes the nature of a survival language. A survival language is steeped in avidyaa. As long as who I am, is defined by such a language, I remain the victim of an endless vicious circle.
The question is — why would we choose a language which keeps us in perpetual self-judgement. The fact is that we never chose the language. It has always been around, and as children, we were given no other options. As long as we do not consciously redesign the way we use language, we remain at the effect of the past, conditioned by the very language of the past to repeat the patterns of the past, again and again.
As long as this survival model of language is in effect, it seems virtually impossible for people to learn Sanskrit. This is to a large degree due to the fact that Sanskrit is a perfect model of a sacred language, and a sacred language cannot be learned by means of a survival language.
This is not to say that English or any other language could not be used as a sacred language. In fact, it has to be, to begin the study of Sanskrit. Conversely, Sanskrit could be used in a survival mode. It’s just that in the design of most languages, there is very little safeguard against them being used as survival languages. And in the design of Sanskrit, there is every conceivable feature built in to keep it operating as a sacred language. The single most outstanding difference between a sacred and a survival language is the definition, orientation and usage in the language of the word “I”. “I” or its equivalent is the source of language. Without I, there is no you, he, she or it.
The evolution of the word “I” into a complex language is a process of creation. In the development of a sacred language, the process is a conscious one; language is an emanation, a creation, an instrument of “I”. In a survival language, “I” is an effect of the cultural patterns already unconsciously established by the language. In Sanskrit, even the sounds which make the word for “I” are consciously selected. AHAM. “A” is the first spoken sound, as well as the first sound of the Sanskrit alphabet. It can be discovered by breathing, in and with the mouth slightly open, releasing the breath with sound that requires the minimal effort. It naturally arises in the throat before the articulation of all other sounds. “HA” is the last letter of the Sanskrit alphabet.
After all the systematic patterns created by the movement of the tongue and lips have produced in perfect order all the other letters of the alphabet, the final sound is “HA”. It also is the only consonant sound that moves by the power of the breath alone, and the only consonant in exact proximity to “A” . The final letter “M” is the very last sound produced in the mouth, because it occurs due to the closing of the lips. In Sanskrit, AHAM is the beginning, the breath of life which brings forth creation, and the end. And this is expressed not just symbolically by the letters A-H-A-M, but physically, based on their location in the mouth. The other most important attribute of a sacred language is that each of its individual sounds are regarded as sacred. Anyone can feel this by getting relaxed and repeating the AHAM, over and over, and while doing so, feeling a complete all-encompassing expression of self.
Then, becoming silent, continue to feel “A” as the inhalation and HAM as the exhalation. “A” is the only sound which is truly internal. “HAM” is the most complete expression possible, arising directly from “A”, and closing after passing through all the positions of all other existing sounds. The design of a sacred language is such that the sounds perfectly express the vibrational essence of that which they describe. In this way, words establish knowledge and understanding directly. The next stage of establishing a sacred language is an intimacy with the other sounds of the language, becoming familiar with their exact location, savoring their delicacy, feeling their force and power, and the unique way they vibrate the body and atmosphere.
This is simply a matter of enjoying sound without inhibition, as we did when we were children. In the process of learning the Sanskrit alphabet, one discovers that all sounds are encompassed in “AHAM”. As other words are created, the sounds which compose them become the means by which “I-AHAM” establish my relationship of unity with, rather than separateness from, all existence.
Important characteristic of a sacred language is that the purpose for which it’s being used is discovering one’s own true nature. Sanskrit is so highly developed and refined as a tool for serving this purpose that even the task of learning the language seems “difficult” — unless the motive for learning is aligned with the function of the language, that is, to know oneself. When Sanskrit is approached with the humility and one-pointedness that is the trademark of a genuine search for truth, it becomes revealed. There arises a simple joy in all aspects of its study. Singing the alphabet is especially inspiring even when one has become proficient.
Shri Brahmananda Sarasvati, although a master of Sanskrit, with more than 60 years of study behind him, and his speech impaired by a stroke, still seems to find his greatest delight in leading a group of students through the alphabet. Perhaps, this says a much as anything about the nature of a sacred language.
We seldom hear anyone over seven years of age singing the English alphabet. Its not that these sounds aren’t enjoyable to sing. We do not have the same relation to the English language that adults and children alike who have learned Sanskrit have with it. That relation is a sacred one, based on the energy conveyed through sound, a love for the unique characteristics of each sound in engaging the mind, body, the breath, vocal resonance, the mouth, tongue and lips.
Because of the simplicity of life in ancient times, there was an acute awareness that all changes in life took place as a result of changes in language. As new discoveries occurred in language, there was an immediate and very noticeable shift in human beings’ interactions and in the way that they perceived their environment. The evolution of human awareness was inextricably linked to the development of language. It was natural that more and more attention should be given to its development as the single most important factor in changing the quality of human life. This eventually gave way to discoveries whose magnitude is inconceivable to us in modern times, where language tends to be taken for granted.
The discovery, development and refinement of Sanskrit must have taken place over millennia. Although Sanskrit along with its great power to elevate human consciousness to sublime heights, is often attributed to a divine source, we can also hypothesize that its properties were discoveries that took place as a result of human beings actively and intensively engaging in the discovery of their own divine nature. The most significant question that must have arisen to the ancients was how to continue optimizing the human instrument, the body and mind, as a vehicle for the expansion of awareness and happiness.
Knowing that the operation of the instrument depends entirely on the language with which it is programmed, they worked on the refinement of language software. They scrutinized and experimented with the vocal instrument and the structure of the mouth and then selected only those sounds which had the greatest clarity, purity and power of resonance. They then organized these sounds in such a way that they could mutually enhance and brighten one another, and build upon each other’s resonance. They explored the factor of breath in creating sound, and discovered that by minimizing the breath with certain sounds and maximizing it with others, the language would induce in the instrument a state of relaxed alertness that could keep it operating efficiently and tirelessly for long periods of time, while expanding and building prana-energy. And as they did this, they became happier.
Furthermore, by coordinating the factors of purity of sound, enhanced resonance and breath, there also developed an awareness of the entire body as a resonating chamber through which sound could be transmitted. With increased vibratory power, the concept of the body as solid matter gradually became replaced by one of the body as the center of an energy field. In the process of transmitting sound energy, they observed subtle changes in the field and found they could expand it by following the sound waves. They had discovered that language has the capacity to convert the body and mind into pure energy. They began to feel joy.
It was further discovered that certain combinations of sounds would enhance the expansion of the field more than others, and this was experimented with, until sound combinations which could bring about this effect universally were revealed. Their joy expanded. These particular combinations became useful words for describing as well as feeling the state of consciousness they induced. In this way the breadth and depth of all that exists was explored. They looked and listened and experienced changes in the energy field, to see how the language could be further refined, what new distinctions could be made. Eventually, they fathomed creation and found their own identity at the very source of it all. Their bliss was boundless. When they spoke with one another in this language they established love and harmony.
Over millennia, Sanskrit was refined as an instrument of Yoga. By 500 B.C. it had reached a point where it was perfected, and ready to be laid down formally. The genius Panini was born for that purpose. So masterful, concise and comprehensive was his great work, Ashtadhyayi in formulating the Sanskrit language, that to this day, two and a half millennia later, no one has been able to improve upon his original work. For 25 centuries, the language has not only survived intact, but thrived through the love of countless enlightened sages, yogis and scholars, basically unmodified. Just imagine a language thriving with little change for 2500 years.
In each century there have been spiritual geniuses, who immersed themselves in the blissful and timeless joy of Sanskrit. Many have elaborated or commented on Panini’s original work, but none have changed it or replaced it. Yoga has thrived side by side with Sanskrit, but through all the practice, experimentation and discovery that has taken place in that science, there has been little need to develop new language or modify the old language in order to measure or inspire progress. Sanskrit had been perfected by 500 B.C. as a tool for defining the ultimate pinnacle of human aspiration.
Questions tend to come up as to why Sanskrit has not been used more as a popular language, or why we are not now utilizing it more widely. The primary obstacle, as I see it, is that we have had difficulty in accessing Sanskrit in the way that it is designed to be used. Because of the strong belief we hold that we are our body/mind, our primary concern is what is going to happen to us individually. We see the possibility of change, being happy in the future. And we try to choose and do those things which will most certainly secure our future happiness or enlightenment. This equation is almost universally interpreted as “getting more and getting better”. The approach never works for learning Sanskrit, or for being happy.
The motivation for learning Sanskrit is the enchantment, inspiration, peace and deep sense of spiritual connection felt when listening to it. Or it may have been a pure childlike enjoyment in duplicating those sounds. Most people would have no difficulty learning Sanskrit, if they simply remained in the mode of what motivated them in the first place, their enjoyment. But something else usually happens. The desire to learn Sanskrit starts to be perceived as a future goal, which, when and if achieved, will represent the securing of the happiness which generated the desire to learn it in the first place. The goal is usually accompanied by an expectation of mastering a certain amount of material within a certain period of time. The problem here is the old conditioning, all past memories of happiness, present or future, being thwarted by difficulties and interruptions. Greatest among these memories is the loss of the simple joy of being a child and the pure direct perception of life we all experienced in our childhood.
The nature of a sacred language such as Sanskrit is the direct way that it models life, or accesses through the purity of its sound and rhythms, the perfection and beauty of life that we all experienced as children. On our first exposure to Sanskrit, we reconnect with that purity and joy, and then with the desire to secure that again in our lives, decide that we must learn the language. On a very deep level, it’s a decision to nourish our spirit, and reestablish our oneness with life. But it also at the same time brings us face to face with our existential pain, the entire sum of our conditioning, all that has kept us in a state of feeling alone and separate for the greater part of a lifetime, as well as our repeated failure in attempting to regain that happiness.
Once the task of learning the language is conceived, the criteria for achievement are unconsciously measured. Success is determined by comparing what one has managed to learn with what remains to be known and how much others know. Success also depends on the mastery of a certain quantity of information in a certain period of time. The universal question asked at the beginning, is “How long will it take me to learn it?” But the Sanskrit language is so vast and distinctly different from other languages and other learning tasks, that from the very outset, it becomes apparent that it is going to be very difficult to achieve the expected success in the expected period of time. In addition, there are many Indian speakers and scholars, one could never even hope to catch up with. This inevitably brings the conclusion “Proficiency is further away than I had believed.” Along with this assessment — automatically arise the words “too difficult”. Sanskrit is too difficult.
But the problem is not really the perceived difficulty based on the amount of information that exists in the Sanskrit language. The fact that there is more information actually represents more enjoyment. If one were offered a large collection of the greatest music of all time accompanied by a continuous flow of increasingly majestic and panoramic visions, one would not be disappointed because it would take too long to listen to. In other words, discouragement about being able to learn Sanskrit has absolutely nothing to do with Sanskrit. Sanskrit is an enjoyable experience at all stages. Working with Sanskrit increases and develops energy and clarity of mind. There are seemingly an infinite variety of euphonic sound combinations and rhythmic patterns to be enjoyed. Experiencing them expands the capacity of the mind to operate as the cosmic computer it is designed to be.
The only real problem that arises with regard to learning Sanskrit is forgetting why one decided to learn it in the first place — to feel the joy and purity one felt as a child. When the real purpose is forgotten, we automatically default to concerns about success and failure based on past programming. It is only in regard to this that the idea “too difficult” can arise. Once “too difficult” takes root, the usual result is giving up, because one’s image of oneself being proficient, seems too difficult to attain within the time limitations calculated as a factor in producing the necessary satisfaction. Although such resignation is based on the fact of long-standing pain, it is not the truth. The truth is the original inspiration, the joy, the play, the heightened awareness. If Sanskrit seems too difficult, it’s doing its job perfectly.
A sacred language must teach us to discover where the energy of being flows, and it becomes easy.
The obvious solution is to have no expectations whatsoever with regard to time or quantities of information. This is an approach which serves our original purpose — to enter into that timeless dimension. If concerns come up or it seems to be getting difficult, it’s merely an indication that we’ve forgotten our real purpose. The moment the idea of getting or adding “more” arises, we lose the direct absorption, the enjoyment, the sense of play. This is direct bio-feedback Sanskrit is a play, a dance of energy in the eternal now. It, modeling life, is perfectly designed to take us beyond our expectations, our self images, our programming. But we must be ready to be in the role of a perpetual learner, a student of life, of the ancient, eternal wisdom, miraculously encoded in this sacred language.
If we believe that by learning a sacred language, we will gain knowledge and power, then we look to a future goal which is by definition opposed to our true nature. The power of a sacred language is to immediately mirror this back, as if to say, NO ACCESS. A sacred language, is one which guides us to our own true nature, and every time we derail ourselves, reminds us in some way that we’re missing out on its real nourishment. If we are going to engage, it must be with our total being, one pointed awareness, free from the distraction of where it might bring us, or rather, we might take it in the future. Sanskrit is the living heritage of great rishis who walked this earth thousands of years ago. It presents us with an awesome responsibility and a lifelong challenge, while it inspires us to remain fully engaged in exploring what’s possible for a human being.
Learning Sanskrit is an opportunity to know directly for ourselves what the rishis discovered long ago. Most important, when approached as a sacred language, it makes us happy. From the perspective of Yoga, all life ultimately merges into samadhi. It could be said that samadhi is the essence of yoga, In the Yoga Sutras, samadhi is defined, “tad evaathamaatraanirbhaasam-svaruupa-shuunyam iva samaadhih” that (consciousness, engaged in sustained focus upon a single object), reflecting the object alone, as if empty of its own nature, is samadhi. Everyone has had the experience of samadhi, whether in childhood, or some deeply absorbing experience, such as listening to music.
It’s a period when our usual identity disappears because our habitual use of language has been discontinued. Many teachers used to say “the body is a prison only when you cannot come and go as you please”. The experience of samadhi is the freedom to come and go. Without samadhi we live in a prison of language, whose walls consist of words, whose bars and locked doors are the meanings and significance we unknowingly give to those words. Unknowingly, because the meanings were never consciously selected. They were programmed into us by prior generations. For example, when people make a mistake, they tend to feel stupid or embarrassed. But whoever (aside from lexicographers) really defined for themselves what a “mistake” is?
The great sage Shankara (in the famous Bhajagovindam) wrote:
satsangatve nissangatvam nissangatve nirmohatvam | nirmohatve nishchalatatvam nishchalatattvam jiivanmuktiH ||
In a state of satsanga, good company, (comes) non-attachment; in non-attachment, a state beyond confusion; in truth beyond confusion, motionlessness; in motionlessness, living freedom.
The verse could be used as a model of the necessary conditions for making the shift from being at the effect of language to being at the source of it. It all begins with satsanga, good company. The best example of this that I know of is a group of people who have come together to learn Sanskrit. It seems that on some level, perhaps unconsciously, a person who has decided to learn Sanskrit, has decided in some way to use this sacred language for that which it was designed — to be free.
It is remarkably easy for such a group of people to change their relation to language, to put themselves at the source of language and then select and use language in a way that gives them access to Sanskrit, with ease and enjoyment. Without the mutual agreement of the group, satsanga, good company, it would be highly unlikely that the shift could ever take place. We grew up in a world where a mistake was a bad thing, enough so that most people would not risk making one. This led to massive withdrawal. Though people remained in a group, they were not really part of the group. In truth, fear dominated nearly all groups. Natural unity was shattered. The satsanga was lost. Groups were ineffective. Alone, individuals were powerless. Everyone was hopelessly at the effect of the language of right/wrong and smart/stupid. In effect, a “group” could have been defined as a “body of people which has come together to determine who is worthy and who is unworthy.” Fortunately, the Sanskrit language has given us the word “satsanga”, which could be defined as “a body of people who have come together (sanga) to ascertain reality (sat).” The fundamental agreement of such a group, such as the one which has come together to learn Sanskrit, is that “I” am prior to language.
I use language to direct my attention to a full appreciation of the beautiful sounds of the Sanskrit language, their harmonies and their organization, as well as the truths expressed through the language. The language that makes this possible is the language of yoga, another gift of Sanskrit. The satsanga agrees upon abhyaasa the selecting and sustained attention upon a single focal point, for example, listening to the sounds of the Sanskrit language. It’s also agreed that there’s nothing “wrong” with being off the point. Becoming aware that I am off point, without satsanga — I might worry about what I missed that others got, I might worry about being left behind — “others are succeeding where I fail.”
But in satsanga where the language of yoga has been agreed upon, there is vairaagya or non-attachment, “the full awareness of my own mastery to not-attach myself to habitual experience and simply return to the point, and even acknowledge ‘I missed something — could it be repeated?’”. For the satsanga, if anyone missed anything, it’s an opportunity for it to be reviewed and clarified and enjoyed again by everyone. It sounds too good to be true. Yet it happens exactly this way by shifting our relationship to language. This would not be possible without satsanga.
In the state of satsanga (satsangatve) comes non-attachment (nissangatvam). There is no more attachment to being right, and concurrently the fear of being wrong. The real satisfaction derived from the wholeness of group unity, the much greater capacity of the group to focus together, enjoy sound together, appreciate the beauty of Sanskrit together, all make the prior condition of being at the effect of words such as right/wrong or smart /stupid or success/failure seem totally irrelevant. Through satsanga, there’s a complete shift in our relation to language — we see through the prison walls.
In non-attachment (nissangatve), there comes a state beyond confusion (nirmohatvam). I’m no longer holding myself back because of the fear of consequences. I am feeling my oneness with the group. It’s safe to put myself into it. There is no conflict over wanting acceptance, while fearing rejection. My confusion over whether to participate or not – will I be rejected if I do it wrong or isolated if I do it right — is gone. The illusion, and the confusion (moha) of being separate from others dissolves. The truth that we are one emerges. When we move as one, we go beyond success and failure and access our natural ability to perfectly reflect whatever we perceive — samadhi.
In the state beyond confusion (nirmohatve), is motionlessness (nishcalitatvam). This happens in the Sanskrit satsanga. In the absence of striving to be better, fearing getting worse, the old language that raced through our mind stops. The mind becomes still, sensitive. A state of listening is present, sam٤hi, in which we feel the nuances of Sanskrit, its power, and the subtle way it resonates in the heart of our being, like ancient and eternal music. There’s no more struggle to learn, to gain and accumulate knowledge. The words of Sanskrit, through their sound vibration are like waves of pure energy, which we enjoy as if watching a performance taking place inside us — while their meanings describe our own fathomless perfection, as the seer of all, ancient, eternal.
In motionlessness (nishcalitatve), living freedom (jiivanmukti), The prison walls, even the memory that they were ever there, has dissolved. From beginning to end, from the first attempt to learn Sanskrit to the direct experience of the meaning of its ancient words of truth and power, Sanskrit generates and establishes an entirely different relationship with language. It’s the proper relationship, the true one, establishing our real unity, freedom from the bondage of the past illusions. It keeps us savoring the timeless enjoyment of the universe of sound, and a perfect creation.
By studying this sacred language only, the soul of India can be understood and a good example among foreigners, we can say, is Max Muller a German Scholar.
December 5, 2008 at 10:12 am
WELL, WHAT YOU WILL SAY NOW PIE AND marburg?
December 6, 2008 at 9:44 am
NOW ENJOY BY READING WHAT NASA DOES THINK ABOUT SANSKRIT:
Artificial Intelligence —Sanskrit— The Age of Information — NASA — Knowledge Representation
Sanskrit & Artificial Intelligence — NASA
Knowledge Representation in Sanskrit and Artificial Intelligence
by
Rick Briggs
Roacs, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffet Field, California
Abstract
In the past twenty years, much time, effort, and money has been expended on designing an unambiguous representation of natural languages to make them accessible to computer processing. These efforts have centered around creating schemata designed to parallel logical relations with relations expressed by the syntax and semantics of natural languages, which are clearly cumbersome and ambiguous in their function as vehicles for the transmission of logical data. Understandably, there is a widespread belief that natural languages are unsuitable for the transmission of many ideas that artificial languages can render with great precision and mathematical rigor.
But this dichotomy, which has served as a premise underlying much work in the areas of linguistics and artificial intelligence, is a false one. There is at least one language, Sanskrit, which for the duration of almost 1000 years was a living spoken language with a considerable literature of its own. Besides works of literary value, there was a long philosophical and grammatical tradition that has continued to exist with undiminished vigor until the present century. Among the accomplishments of the grammarians can be reckoned a method for paraphrasing Sanskrit in a manner that is identical not only in essence but in form with current work in Artificial Intelligence. This article demonstrates that a natural language can serve as an artificial language also, and that much work in AI has been reinventing a wheel millenia old.
First, a typical Knowledge Representation Scheme (using Semantic Nets) will be laid out, followed by an outline of the method used by the ancient Indian Grammarians to analyze sentences unambiguously. Finally, the clear parallelism between the two will be demonstrated, and the theoretical implications of this equivalence will be given.
Semantic Nets
For the sake of comparison, a brief overview of semantic nets will be given, and examples will be included that will be compared to the Indian approach. After early attempts at machine translation (which were based to a large extent on simple dictionary look-up) failed in their effort to teach a computer to understand natural language, work in AI turned to Knowledge Representation.
Since translation is not simply a map from lexical item to lexical item, and since ambiguity is inherent in a large number of utterances, some means is required to encode what the actual meaning of a sentence is. Clearly, there must be a representation of meaning independent of words used. Another problem is the interference of syntax. In some sentences (for example active/passive) syntax is, for all intents and purposes, independent of meaning. Here one would like to eliminate considerations of syntax. In other sentences the syntax contributes to the meaning and here one wishes to extract it.
I will consider a “prototypical” semantic net system similar to that of Lindsay, Norman, and Rumelhart in the hopes that it is fairly representative of basic semantic net theory. Taking a simple example first, one would represent “John gave the ball to Mary” as in Figure 1. Here five nodes connected by four labeled arcs capture the entire meaning of the sentence. This information can be stored as a series of “triples”:
give, agent, John
give, object, ball
give, recipient, Mary
give, time, past.
Note that grammatical information has been transformed into an arc and a node (past tense). A more complicated example will illustrate embedded sentences and changes of state:
John Mary
book past
Figure 1.
“John told Mary that the train moved out of the station at 3 o’clock.”
As shown in Figure 2, there was a change in state in which the train moved to some unspecified location from the station. It went to the former at 3:00 and from the latter at 3:O0. Now one can routinely convert the net to triples as before.
The verb is given central significance in this scheme and is considered the focus and distinguishing aspect of the sentence. However, there are other sentence types which differ fundamentally from the above examples. Figure 3 illustrates a sentence that is one of “state” rather than of “event .” Other nets could represent statements of time, location or more complicated structures.
A verb, say, “give,” has been taken as primitive, but what is the meaning of “give” itself? Is it only definable in terms of the structure it generates? Clearly two verbs can generate the same structure. One can take a set-theoretic approach and a particular give as an element of “giving events” itself a subset of ALL-EVENTS. An example of this approach is given in Figure 4 (“John, a programmer living at Maple St., gives a book to Mary, who is a lawyer”). If one were to “read” this semantic net, one would have a very long text of awkward English: “There is a John” who is an element of the “Persons” set and who is the person who lives at ADRI, where ADRI is a subset of ADDRESS-EVENTS, itself a subset of ‘ALL EVENTS’, and has location ‘37 Maple St.’, an element of Addresses; and who is a “worker” of ‘occupation 1′. . .etc.”
The degree to which a semantic net (or any unambiguous, nonsyntactic representation) is cumbersome and odd-sounding in a natural language is the degree to which that language is “natural” and deviates from the precise or “artificial.” As we shall see, there was a language spoken among an ancient scientific community that has a deviation of zero.
The hierarchical structure of the above net and the explicit descriptions of set-relations are essential to really capture the meaning of the sentence and to facilitate inference. It is believed by most in the AI and general linguistic community that natural languages do not make such seemingly trivial hierarchies explicit. Below is a description of a natural language, Shastric Sanskrit, where for the past millenia successful attempts have been made to encode such information.
Shastric Sanskrit
The sentence:
(1) “Caitra goes to the village.” (graamam gacchati caitra)
receives in the analysis given by an eighteenth-century Sanskrit Grammarian from Maharashtra, India, the following paraphrase:
(2) “There is an activity which leads to a connection-activity which has as Agent no one other than Caitra, specified by singularity, [which] is taking place in the present and which has as Object something not different from ‘village’.”
The author, Nagesha, is one of a group of three or four prominent theoreticians who stand at the end of a long tradition of investigation. Its beginnings date to the middle of the first millennium B.C. when the morphology and phonological structure of the language, as well as the framework for its syntactic description were codified by Panini. His successors elucidated the brief, algebraic formulations that he had used as grammatical rules and where possible tried to improve upon them. A great deal of fervent grammatical research took place between the fourth century B.C and the fourth century A.D. and culminated in the seminal work, the Vaiakyapadiya by Bhartrhari. Little was done subsequently to advance the study of syntax, until the so-called “New Grammarian” school appeared in the early part of the sixteenth century with the publication of Bhattoji Dikshita’s Vaiyakarana-bhusanasara and its commentary by his relative Kaundabhatta, who worked from Benares. Nagesha (1730-1810) was responsible for a major work, the Vaiyakaranasiddhantamanjusa, or Treasury of dejinitive statements of grammarians, which was condensed later into the earlier described work. These books have not yet been translated.
The reasoning of these authors is couched in a style of language that had been developed especially to formulate logical relations with scientific precision. It is a terse, very condensed form of Sanskrit, which paradoxically at times becomes so abstruse that a commentary is necessary to clarify it.
One of the main differences between the Indian approach to language analysis and that of most of the current linguistic theories is that the analysis of the sentence was not based on a noun-phrase model with its attending binary parsing technique but instead on a conception that viewed the sentence as springing from the semantic message that the speaker wished to convey. In its origins, sentence description was phrased in terms of a generative model: From a number of primitive syntactic categories (verbal action, agents, object, etc.) the structure of the sentence was derived so that every word of a sentence could be referred back to the syntactic input categories. Secondarily and at a later period in history, the model was reversed to establish a method for analytical descriptions. In the analysis of the Indian grammarians, every sentence expresses an action that is conveyed both by the verb and by a set of “auxiliaries.” The verbal action (Icriyu- “action” or sadhyu-”that which is to be accomplished,”) is represented by the verbal root of the verb form; the “auxiliary activities” by the nominals (nouns, adjectives, indeclinables) and their case endings (one of six).
The meaning of the verb is said to be both vyapara (action, activity, cause), and phulu (fruit, result, effect). Syntactically, its meaning is invariably linked with the meaning of the verb “to do”. Therefore, in order to discover the meaning of any verb it is sufficient to answer the question: “What does he do?” The answer would yield a phrase in which the meaning of the direct object corresponds to the verbal meaning. For example, “he goes” would yield the paraphrase: “He performs an act of going”; “he drinks”: “he performs an act of drinking,” etc. This procedure allows us to rephrase the sentence in terms of the verb “to do” or one of its synonyms, and an object formed from the verbal root which expresses the verbal action as an action noun. It still leaves us with a verb form (“he does,” “he performs”), which contains unanalyzed semantic information This information in Sanskrit is indicated by the fact that there is an agent who is engaged in an act of going, or drinking, and that the action is taking place in the present time.
Rather that allow the agent to relate to the syntax in this complex, unsystematic fashion, the agent is viewed as a one-time representative, or instantiation of a larger category of “Agency,” which is operative in Sanskrit sentences. In turn, “Agency” is a member of a larger class of “auxiliary activities,” which will be discussed presently. Thus Caitra is some Caitral or instance of Caitras, and agency is hierarchically related to the auxiliary activities. The fact that in this specific instance the agent is a third person-singular is solved as follows: The number category (singular, dual, or plural) is regarded as a quality of the Agent and the person category (first, second, or third) as a grammatical category to be retrieved from a search list, where its place is determined by the singularity of the agent.
The next step in the process of isolating the verbal meaning is to rephrase the description in such a way that the agent and number categories appear as qualities of the verbal action. This procedure leaves us with an accurate, but quite abstract formulation of the scntcnce: (3) “Caitra is going” (gacchati caitra) – “An act of going is taking place in the present of which the agent is no one other than Caitra qualified by singularity.” (atraikatvaavacchinnacaitraabinnakartrko vartamaanakaa- liko gamanaanukuulo vyaapaarah:) (Double vowels indicate length.)
If the sentence contains, besides an agent, a direct object, an indirect object and/or other nominals that are dependent on the principal action of the verb, then in the Indian system these nominals are in turn viewed as representations of actions that contribute to the complete meaning of the sentence. However, it is not sufficient to state, for instance, that a word with a dative case represents the “recipient” of the verbal action, for the relation between the recipient and the verbal action itself requires more exact specification if we are to center the sentence description around the notion of the verbal action. To that end, the action described by the sentence is not regarded as an indivisible unit, but one that allows further subdivisions. Hence a sentence such as: (4) “John gave the ball to Mary” involves the verb Yo give,” which is viewed as a verbal action composed of a number of auxiliary activities. Among these would be John’s holding the ball in his hand, the movement of the hand holding the ball from John as a starting point toward Mary’s hand as the goal, the seizing of the ball by Mary’s hand, etc. It is a fundamental notion that actions themselves cannot be perceived, but the result of the action is observable, viz. the movement of the hand. In this instance we can infer that at least two actions have taken place:
(a) An act of movement starting from the direction of John and taking place in the direction of Mary’s hand. Its Agent is “the ball” and its result is a union with Mary’s hand.
(b) An act of receiving, which consists of an act of grasping whose agent is Mary’s hand.
It is obvious that the act of receiving can be interpreted as an action involving a union with Mary’s hand, an enveloping of the ball by Mary’s hand, etc., so that in theory it might be difficult to decide where to stop this process of splitting meanings, or what the semantic primitives are. That the Indians were aware of the problem is evident from the following passage: “The name ‘action’ cannot be applied to the solitary point reached by extreme subdivision.”
The set of actions described in (a) and (b) can be viewed as actions that contribute to the meaning of the total sentence, vix. the fact that the ball is transferred from John to Mary. In this sense they are “auxiliary actions” (Sanskrit kuruku-literally “that which brings about”) that may be isolated as complete actions in their own right for possible further subdivision, but in this particular context are subordinate to the total action of “giving.” These “auxiliary activities” when they become thus subordinated to the main sentence meaning, are represented by case endings affixed to nominals corresponding to the agents of the original auxiliary activity. The Sanskrit language has seven case endings (excluding the vocative), and six of these are definable representations of specific “auxiliary activities.” The seventh, the genitive, represents a set of auxiliary activities that are not defined by the other six. The auxiliary actions are listed as a group of six: Agent, Object, Instrument, Recipient, Point of Departure, Locality. They are the semantic correspondents of the syntactic case endings: nominative, accusative, instrumental, dative, ablative and locative, but these are not in exact equivalence since the same syntactic structure can represent different semantic messages, as will be discussed below. There is a good deal of overlap between the karakas and the case endings, and a few of them, such as Point of Departure, also are used for syntactic information, in this case “because of”. In many instances the relation is best characterized as that of the allo-eme variety.
To illustrate the operation of this model of description, a sentence involving an act of cooking rice is often quoted: (5) “Out of friendship, Maitra cooks rice for Devadatta in a pot, over a fire.”
Here the total process of cooking is rendered by the verb form “cooks” as well as a number of auxiliary actions:
1. An Agent represented by the person Maitra
2. An Object by the “rice”
3. An Instrument by the “fire”
4. A Recipient by the person Devadatta
5. A Point of Departure (which includes the causal relationship) by the “friendship” (which is between Maitra and Devadatta)
6. The Locality by the “pot”
So the total meaning of the sentence is not complete without the intercession of six auxiliary actions. The action itself can be inferred from a change of the condition of the grains of rice, which started out being hard and ended up being soft.
Again, it would be possible to atomize the meaning expressed by the phrase: “to cook rice”: It is an operation that is not a unitary “process”, but a combination of processes, such as “to place a pot on the fire, to add fuel to the fire, to fan”, etc. These processes, moreover, are not taking place in the abstract, but they are tied to, or “resting on” agencies that are associated with the processes. The word used for “tied to” is a form of the verbal root a-sri, which means to lie on, have recourse to, be situated on.” Hence it is possible and usually necessary to paraphrase a sentence such as “he gives” as: “an act of giving residing in him.” Hence the paraphrase of sentence (5) will be: (6) “There is an activity conducive to a softening which is a change residing in something not different from rice, and which takes place in the present, and resides in an agent not different from Maitra, who is specified by singularity and has a Recipient not different from Devadatta, an Instrument not different from.. .,” etc.
It should be pointed out that these Sanskrit Grammatical Scientists actually wrote and talked this way. The domain for this type of language was the equivalent of today’s technical journals. In their ancient journals and in verbal communication with each other they used this specific, unambiguous form of Sanskrit in a remarkably concise way.
Besides the verbal root, all verbs have certain suffixes that express the tense and/or mode, the person (s) engaged in the “action” and the number of persons or items so engaged. For example, the use of passive voice would necessitate using an Agent with an instrumental suffix, whereas the nonpassive voice implies that the agent of the sentence, if represented by a noun or pronoun, will be marked by a nominative singular suffix.
Word order in Sanskrit has usually no more than stylistic significance, and the Sanskrit theoreticians paid no more than scant attention to it. The language is then very suited to an approach that eliminates syntax and produces basically a list of semantic messages associated with the karakas.
An example of the operation of this model on an intransitive sentence is the following:
(7) Because of the wind, a leaf falls from a tree to the ground.”
Here the wind is instrumental in bringing about an operation that results in a leaf being disunited from a tree and being united with the ground. By virtue of functioning as instrument of the operation, the term “wind” qualifies as a representative of the auxiliary activity “Instrument”; by virtue of functioning as the place from which the operation commences, the “tree” qualifies to be called “The Point of Departure”; by virtue of the fact that it is the place where the leaf ends up, the “ground” receives the designation “Locality”. In the example, the word “leaf” serves only to further specify the agent that is already specified by the nonpassive verb in the form of a personal suffix. In the language it is rendered as a nominative case suffix. In passive sentences other statements have to be made. One may argue that the above phrase does not differ in meaning from “The wind blows a leaf from the tree,” in which the “wind” appears in the Agent slot, the “leaf” in the Object slot. The truth is that this phrase is transitive, whereas the earlier one is intransitive. “Transitivity” can be viewed as an additional feature added to the verb. In Sanskrit this process is often accomplished by a suffix, the causative suffix, which when added to the verbal root would change the meaning as follows: “The wind causes the leaf to fall from the tree,” and since English has the word “blows” as the equivalent of “causes to fall” in the case of an Instrument “wind,” the relation is not quite transparent. Therefore, the analysis of the sentence presented earlier, in spite of its manifest awkwardness, enabled the Indian theoreticians to introduce a clarity into their speculations on language that was theretofore un- available. Structures that appeared radically different at first sight become transparent transforms of a basic set of elementary semantic categories.
It is by no means the case that these analyses have been exhausted, or that their potential has been exploited to the full. On the contrary, it would seem that detailed analyses of sentences and discourse units had just received a great impetus from Nagesha, when history intervened: The British conquered India and brought with them new and apparently effective means for studying and analyzing languages. The subsequent introduction of Western methods of language analysis, including such areas of research as historical and structural linguistics, and lately generative linguistics, has for a long time acted as an impediment to further research along the traditional ways. Lately, however, serious and responsible research into Indian semantics has been resumed, especially at the University of Poona, India. The surprising equivalence of the Indian analysis to the techniques used in applications of Artificial Intelligence will be discussed in the next section.
Equivalence
A comparison of the theories discussed in the first section with the Indian theories of sentence analysis in the second section shows at once a few striking similarities. Both theories take extreme care to define minute details with which a language describes the relations between events in the natural world. In both instances, the analysis itself is a map of the relations between events in the universe described. In the case of the computer-oriented analysis, this mapping is a necessary prerequisite for making the speaker’s natural language digestible for the artificial processor; in the case of Sanskrit, the motivation is more elusive and probably has to do with an age-old Indo-Aryan preoccupation to discover the nature of the reality behind the the impressions we human beings receive through the operation of our sense organs. Be it as it may, it is a matter of surprise to discover that the outcome of both trends of thinking-so removed in time, space, and culture-have arrived at a representation of linguistic events that is not only theoretically equivalent but close in form as well. The one superficial difference is that the Indian tradition was on the whole, unfamiliar with the facility of diagrammatic representation, and attempted instead to formulate all abstract notions in grammatical sentences. In the following paragraphs a number of the parallellisms of the two analyses will be pointed out to illustrate the equivalence of the two systems.
Consider the sentence: “John is going.” The Sanskrit paraphrase would be
“An Act of going is taking place in which the Agent is ‘John’ specified by singularity and masculinity.”
If we now turn to the analysis in semantic nets, the event portrayed by a set of triples is the following:
1. “going events, instance, go (this specific going event)”
2. “go, agent, John”
3. “go, time, present.”
The first equivalence to be observed is that the basic framework for inference is the same. John must be a semantic primitive, or it must have a dictionary entry, or it must be further represented (i.e. “John, number, 1″ etc.) if further processing requires more detail (e.g. “HOW many people are going?”). Similarly, in the Indian analysis, the detail required in one case is not necessarily required in another case, although it can be produced on demand (if needed). The point to be made is that in both systems, an extensive degree of specification is crucial in understanding the real meaning of the sentence to the extent that it will allow inferences to be made about the facts not explicitly stated in the sentence
The basic crux of the equivalence can be illustrated by a careful look at sentence (5) noted in Part II.
“Out of friendship, Maitra cooks rice for Devadatta in a pot over a fire ”
The semantic net is supplied in Figure 5. The triples corresponding to the net are:
cause, event, friendship
friendship, objectl, Devadatta
friendship, object2, Maitra
cause, result cook
cook, agent, Maitra
cook, recipient, Devadatta
cook, instrument, fire
cook, object, rice
cook, on-lot, pot.
The sentence in the Indian analysis is rendered as follows:
The Agent is represented by Maitra, the Object by “rice,” the Instrument by “fire,” the Recipient by “Devadatta,” the Point of Departure (or cause) by “friendship” (between Maitra and Devadatta), the Locality by “pot.”
Since all of these syntactic structures represent actions auxiliary to the action “cook,” let us write %ook” uext to each karakn and its sentence representat(ion:
cook, agent, Maitra
cook, object, rice
cook, instrument, fire
cook, recipient, Devadatta
cook, because-of, friendship
friendship, Maitra, Devadatta
cook, locality, pot.
The comparison of the analyses shows that the Sanskrit sentence when rendered into triples matches the analysis arrived at through the application of computer processing. That is surprising, because the form of the Sanskrit sentence is radically different from that of the English. For comparison, the Sanskrit sentence is given here: Maitrah: sauhardyat Devadattaya odanam ghate agnina pacati.
Here the stem forms of the nouns are: Muitra-sauhardya- “friendship,” Devadatta -, odana- “gruel,” ghatu- “pot,” agni- “fire’ and the verb stem is paca- “cook”. The deviations of the stem forms occuring at the end of each word represent the change dictated by the word’s semantic and syntactic position. It should also be noted that the Indian analysis calls for the specification of even a greater amount of grammatical and semantic detail: Maitra, Devadatta, the pot, and fire would all be said to be qualified by “singularity” and “masculinity” and the act of cooking can optionally be expanded into a number of successive perceivable activities. Also note that the phrase “over a fire” on the face of it sounds like a locative of the same form as “in a pot.” However, the context indicates that the prepositional phrase describes the instrument through which the heating of the rice takes place and, therefore, is best regarded as an instrument semantically. cause
Of course, many versions of semantic nets have been proposed, some of which match the Indian system better than others do in terms of specific concepts and structure. The important point is that the same ideas are present in both traditions and that in the case of many proposed semantic net systems it is the Indian analysis which is more specific.
A third important similarity between the two treatments of the sentence is its focal point which in both cases is the verb. The Sanskrit here is more specific by rendering the activity as a “going-event”, rather than “ongoing.” This procedure introduces a new necessary level of abstraction, for in order to keep the analysis properly structured, the focal point ought to be phrased: “there is an event taking place which is one of cooking,” rather than “there is cooking taking place”, in order for the computer to distinguish between the levels of unspecified “doing” (vyapara) and the result of the doing (phala).
A further similarity between the two systems is the striving for unambiguity. Both Indian and AI schools en-code in a very clear, often apparently redundant way, in order to make the analysis accessible to inference. Thus, by using the distinction of phala and vyapara, individual processes are separated into components which in term are decomposable. For example, “to cook rice” was broken down as “placing a pot on the fire, adding fuel, fanning, etc.” Cooking rice also implies a change of state, realized by the phala, which is the heated softened rice. Such specifications are necessary to make logical pathways, which otherwise would remain unclear. For example, take the following sentence:
“Maitra cooked rice for Devadatta who burned his mouth while eating it.”
The semantic nets used earlier do not give any information about the logical connection between the two clauses. In order to fully understand the sentence, one has to be able to make the inference that the cooking process involves the process of “heating” and the process of “making palatable.” The Sanskrit grammarians bridged the logical gap by the employment of the phalu/ vyapara distinction. Semantic nets could accomplish the same in a variety of ways:
1. by mapping “cooking” as a change of state, which would involve an excessive amount of detail with too much compulsory inference;
2. by representing the whole statement as a cause (event-result), or
3. by including dictionary information about cooking. A further comparison between the Indian system and the theory of semantic nets points to another similarity: The passive and the active transforms of the same sentence are given the same analysis in both systems. In the Indian system the notion of the “intention of the speaker” (tatparya, vivaksa) is adduced as a cause for distinguishing the two transforms semantically. The passive construction is said to emphasize the object, the nonpassive emphasizes the agent. But the explicit triples are not different. This observation indicates that both systems extract the meaning from the syntax.
Finally, a point worth noting is the Indian analysis of the intransitive phrase (7) describing the leaf falling from the tree. The semantic net analysis resembles the Sanskrit analysis remarkably, but the latter has an interesting flavor. Instead of a change from one location to another, as the semantic net analysis prescribes, the Indian system views the process as a uniting and disuniting of an agent. This process is equivalent to the concept of addition to and deletion from sets. A leaf falling to the ground can be viewed as a leaf disuniting from the set of leaves still attached to the tree followed by a uniting with (addition to) the set of leaves already on the ground. This theory is very useful and necessary to formulate changes or statements of state, such as “The hill is in the valley.”
In the Indian system, inference is very complete indeed. There is the notion that in an event of “moving”, there is, at each instant, a disunion with a preceding point (the source, the initial state), and a union with the following point, toward the destination, the final state. This calculus-like concept fascillitates inference. If it is stated that a process occurred, then a language processor could answer queries about the state of the world at any point during the execution of the process.
As has been shown, the main point in which the two lines of thought have converged is that the decomposition of each prose sentence into karalca-representations of action and focal verbal-action, yields the same set of triples as those which result from the decomposition of a semantic net into nodes, arcs, and labels. It is interesting to speculate as to why the Indians found it worthwhile to pursue studies into unambiguous coding of natural language into semantic elements. It is tempting to think of them as computer scientists without the hardware, but a possible explanation is that a search for clear, unambigous understanding is inherent in the human being.
Let us not forget that among the great accomplishments of the Indian thinkers were the invention of zero, and of the binary number system a thousand years before the West re-invented them.
Their analysis of language casts doubt on the humanistic distinction between natural and artificial intelligence, and may throw light on how research in AI may finally solve the natural language understanding and machine translation problems.
References
Bhatta, Nagesha (1963) Vaiyakarana-Siddhanta-Laghu-Manjusa, Benares (Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series Office).
Nilsson, Nils J. Principles of Artificial Intelligence. Palo Alto: Tioga Publishing Co
Bhatta, Nagesha (1974) Parama-Lalu-Manjusa Edited by Pandit Alakhadeva Sharma, Benares (Chowkhambha Sanskrit Series Office).
Rumelhart, D E. & D A. Norman (1973) Active Semantic Networks as a model of human memory. IJCAI.
Wang, William S-Y (1967) “Final Administrative Report to the National Science Foundation.” Project for Machine Translation. University of California, Berkeley. (A biblzographical summary of work done in Berkeley on a program to translate Chinese.)
[THE AI MAGAZINE Spring, 1985 #39]
Artificial Intelligence & Sanskrit top
Sanskrit — Language of Enlightenment
Science Index
Has Science Failed Us?”
Computerized Gods
Positive & Progressive Immortality
Artificial Intelligence — Computerized Gods — The Age of Information — Weizenbaum
December 6, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Jesus Christ incarnated One God in Three Persons has nothing to do with false one-person pseudogod kalki.
Because human social world has thousands of years, while Earth has millions of years as Catholic private revelations says, chronology of things done by Catholic One God in Three Persons should be approximately as follows:
~7000000 BCE – creation of cosmos with other planets, including our world without humans.
~4000 BCE – creation of first Earth humans – Adam and Eve on Earth in Israel near Jerusalem with giving them Proto-Indo-European language, and creation of other human beings on other planets. In these times instead of Hebrew, Latin, Greek, etc… confused secondary descendant cognates were used exceptionlessly their PIE primary ancestor cognates.
~3500 BCE – flood
~3000 BCE – confusion of tongues
Slightly less than 3000 BCE was founded CONFUSED Early Indus-Saraswati civilization, with early Rig-Veda.
~1 CE – born of Jesus Christ, beginning of Christian Era
~2000 CE – present
~3000 CE – going of remaining Catholics from Earth to Heaven and end of world and cosmos.
As you see, Proto-Indo-European originated in Paradise near Jerusalem, ~6000 years ago.
December 8, 2008 at 11:06 am
NOW JUST CHECK SOMEONES VIEW ON INDIA:
INDIA AND HER RENOVATION
“if in this world a place,which can be specified as’sacred land’,if a place —where forgiveness,compassion,holyness,quiteness is mostly taken place in human mind than any other, if a place spirituality and insightness is devoloped most than all,then surely ican say the place is our motherland—this INDIA .
i will see if any one show me in indias history when india didnt had a man who could remote the whole world by spiritualitic power, but indias work system is SPIRITUAL indeed,a system which cant be done by MARTIAL MUSIC or SOLDIERS MISSIONS.
indias effect in this world is always like SOUNDLESS FALL OF DEW yet but india has always gifted the world its most beautiful FLOWERS(TREASURES).
The world is infinitely indebted to our mother land.
the time when CATHOLICISM or CHRISTIANISM didnt even touch the thinking of mind, atleast 300 years before that our religion was well estabilished. same thing appears in case of our SCIENCE is well.A nother gift of ancient india is a group of SCINTIFIC MINDED PEOPLE.according to SIR WILLIAM HUNTER discovery of various types of CHEMICAL PRODUCTS and PLASTIC SURGERY is gifts to mordern world from those people.
Indias heritage in case of MATHEMATICS is far more SUPIRIOR. The birth of ALGEBRA,GEOMETRY,ARITHMATIC,ASTRONOMY and mordern sciences pride MIXED MATHS is also took place by ANCIENT INDIAN SCHOLARS, mordern civilizations pillar THE CONCEPT OF TEN NUMBERs(123456789 and 10) and DECIMAL is also SANSKRIT in origin.
Incase of PHILOSOPHY our race is much ahead than others, world FAMOUS german PHILISOPHER SOFENHOWER has also confessed the fact.
In MUSIC india has given the world its 7 MAIN TONESand with the THREE MUSICAL SCALE the FUNCTION OF NOTATION is well.
in PHILOLOGY most linguists today belive that SANSKRIT is THE BASE of all EUROPEAN LANGUAGES.
Our EPICS,NOVELS and PLAYS are SAME TO THE BEST of any other creations of any language.
The great GERMAN poet has remarked about the play SAKUNTALAH that ‘HEAVEN AND EARTH IS UNITED IN IT’.
The fmous story series named ISHOPS FABLES is also indias gift as ISHOP took the stories material from an old SANSKRIT SCIPTURE,THE ARABIAN NITES even the CINDERELLA story is also originated from india.
In department of FINE ARTS india was FIRST to create the RED COLOUR, to import COTTON and india also showed special talent in creating every types of ORNAMENTATION and DECORATION is well.
THE DISCOVERY OF SUGAR also took place in india(south)
THE ENGLISH WORD ‘SUGAR’ DERIVED FROM ARABIC ‘SUCCAR’ is actualy taken from original SANSKRIT word ‘SARCARAH’.At last it can be said that CHESS,CARDSand the game of DICE throwing is also ANCIENT INDIAN in discovery.
IN FACT IN EVERY WAY indias supirority was so big that IN NUMBERS and NUBERS OF EUROPEAN PEOPLE came to INDIAS corners and borders to TASTE FORTUNE an act which lately became the reason of AMERICAS DISCOVERY.
when i CONSIDER THE ANCIENT HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY I never see A COUNTRY in the whole world which has WORKED SO HARD FOR THE PROGRESS OF HUMAN MIND.Thats why never BLAME or REPROACH my RACE. I SAY:’what is done is quite good, try to do more’.
BY:SWAMI VIVEKANANDA.
NOTE:
1.We can have an idea of the love that vivekananda had for his country by reading the text but we have to also remember with intense love for the power of the indian culture ha had intense hatred for the weaknesses of the culture is well.
2.vivekananda once ramarked ‘IAM CONDENSEDINDIA’, WHICH shows the information and deep gyan he had of india(ancient and mordern is well).
3.A nother interresting fact about vivekananda is the fact as only the second person of the whole world he had an I.Q. OF 200+, THE FIRST PERSON HAVING THAT KIND OF IQ IS —–========== SIR ISAAC NEWTON(PROVEN BY GENETICS).
December 8, 2008 at 12:47 pm
ARYAN INVASION- FICTITIOUS FABRICATION
The more remote the past, the hazier and murkier is the picture available of the ancient times. Fortunately, of all the ancient civilisations, only India has preserved the clearest picture of the pre-historic times wholly in tact. The unimpaired preservation of the Vedas from the remotest past through oral transmission has been hailed as the most marvellous feat of human mind. Unlike the Old Testament, which is a historic record of several generations reduced to writing after Hebrew script came into existence, the Vedas are religious scriptures containing sacred hymns that make only a passing reference to the happenings of the time. Western Indologists with their staunch religious leanings have inflicted the greatest damage and gravest injury on the Vedas by their wrong interpretations of the hymns and by according incorrect chronology to the Vedic civilisation. Referring to this deep-rooted prejudice, anthropologist A.S.Sayce says: “To a generation which has been brought up to believe that in 4004 B.C. or there about the world was being created, the idea that man himself went back to 100,000 years was both incredible and inconceivable.”
Among the Western Indologists, the first to take up the study of Sanskrit was William Jones, the Chief Justice in British Settlements of Fort William. Jones who began his study of Sanskrit in 1784 noticed remarkable similarities between Sanskrit and European languages. He says: “ The Sanscrit language, whatever be its antiquity, is of a wonderful structure; more perfect than the Greek, more copious than the Latin and more exquisitely refined than either.” Jones regarded as the founder of Indology, with his Old Testament background, seems to have erroneously believed that the close affinity between several languages of East and West, revealed their origin from a common language spoken by their commons ancestor. Linguists believed that speakers of Indo-European languages became separate migrating from the original common home, but their ancestors were one. The common ancestor was traced to Aryans from the word WIROS for men occurring in the majority of the Indo-European languages.
The search then began for this original Aryan home, the country of the WIROS, inferred from the data in these Indo-European languages. By the process of elimination of hills, deserts, dense forests and inhospitable polar regions, Western researchers dominated by their religious bigotry, pitched upon the region around Caspian sea as the most likely original homeland of the Aryans. The pre-Darwinian Western Indologists had implicit faith in the Genesis as the infallible word of God and they found it impossible to reconcile themselves to the view that any civilisation could ever have existed before Genesis. They resented the hoary antiquity ascribed by the Indian tradition to Sanskrit literature and Vedic civilisation and much more to the origin of man from Manu. The ancient Hebrews who were descendents of Aryans totally forgot their ancient ancestry and considered themselves to be the oldest of all races.
In the pre-historic times, Sanskrit was the one and only spoken language and all its alphabets along with their consonants and vowels were appropriated by the other Indo-European languages after reading and writing came into vogue with the use of scripts. The primeval man, whom the Hebrew called “Adam” is derived from Sanskrit word ATMA-BHU, one of the epithets of Brahma, the originator of mankind. In the beginning of creation, “Brahma gave names to all objects and beings” and so did Adam according to the Hebrew tradition. The German scholar Dr. Spiegel was of the considered view that the Biblical theory of creation of the world has been borrowed from the ancient religion of the Persians. Dr. Will Durant observes a passing reference to vegetarianism, to a ‘return to nature’ and to the primitive simplicity which Hebrew legend pictures in the Garden of Eden. The episode about deluge and Noah’s Ark is a corrupted version of the making of ship of specified dimensions by Manu. Strange to say that the Hindu tradition supports the truth that the Biblical statements were derived from Persian, Babylonian and Egyptian scriptures, which according to the ancient history of the world were in turn derived from the more ancient Vedic sources.
The Christian and Jewish bias impelled the Western Indologists to suppress the correct chronology of the Vedic civilisation in order to underrate and vilify Aryan civilisation and Sanskrit literature. They could not persuade themselves to accept the fact that the Vedic Hymns were composed millennia before the Old Testament was written. The pride of the superiority of their own religion and of the infallibility of their own conclusions about Indo-European languages so deeply ingrained in Western Indologists led them to propound the absurd and preposterous theory of Aryan invasion. Prof. M. Rangacharya writes: “Incalculable mischief has been done by almost all the English and American scholars in assuming arbitrarily the earliest dates for Egypt and Mesopotamia dates going back to B.C.5000 at least and the latest possible dates for ancient India on the ground that India borrowed from them.” The Western loyalty to their religious faith did not allow the acceptance of Sanskrit as being the mother language of at least the Indo-European group, as at first very ably propounded by Franz Bopp and endorsed by many Indian Indologists.
The ancient history of India as recorded by Western Indologists begins with the advent of Aryans to India. By no stretch of imagination, a small group of Aryans could have migrated from their original home to the East, going along the Danube, crossing the Plateau of Asia Minor avoiding the region between Euphrates and Tigris the seat of a powerful civilisation to reach Persia and proceed further to enter the million square K.Ms Indus Valley through the Khyber pass. The earliest source for the pre-historic period is the Rig Veda in the Deva Bhasha Sanskrit. The understanding of the much-maligned word ARYA by the Western intellect is a perversion totally unrelated to its original Sanskrit meaning of nobility and profundity of wisdom. The Aryan invasion is a fictitious invention of religious fanatics not borne out by the unbiased and impartial interpretation of Vedic hymns.
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December 12, 2008 at 12:24 am
Woe to you disbelievers, if you will harden in your sins and deny God’s Catholic Religion and its previous Adamic, Noahic, Abrahamic and Mosaic stages: http : / / www . giftstor . org / tomkiel05fst . html
Inquisition knows all about you. You are investigated by Inquisition. Inquisition know your evil masonic deeds, you disbelievers. They are below.
The Masonic Plan
for the destruction of the Catholic Church
Directives of the Grand Master of the Masonry to the Catholic Mason Bishops, effective of 1962.
(Updating of the Vatican II). All of the mason brethren must report on the progress of this decisive disposition. Re-elaborated in October 1993 as the progressive plan for the final study. All of the masons occupied in the Church must collect them and accomplish them.
1
Remove once and for all Saint Michael, protector of the Catholic Church, from all of the prayers internal and external of the Holy Mass. Remove his statues affirming that he distracts the attention to the Adoration of Christ.
2
Remove the Penitential Exercises of Lent like no meat on Friday or even fasting; impede every act of abnegation. In their place acts of happiness, joy and love for the neighbour must be favoured. You must say: “Christ has already deserved Paradise for us” and “every human effort is useless”. Tell everyone that they must seriously think about their health. Encourage them to eat meat, especially pig meat.
3
Entrust the Protestant Pastors to re-examine the Holy Mass and to desecrate it. Spread doubt on the Real Presence in the Eucharist and confirm that the Eucharist – with a faith closet to that of the Protestants- it is only bread and wine and is intended as a pure symbol.
Spread Protestants in the Seminars and in the schools. Encourage ecumenism as the way towards unity. Accuse anyone who believes in the Real Presence as subversive and disobedient towards the Church.
4
Prohibit the Latin Liturgy of the Mass, Adoration and Hymns, because they communicate a mysterious and deference emotion. Present them like spells of soothsayers. The men will stop to consider the Priests as men of superior intelligence, to be respected as carriers of the Divine Mysteries.
5
Encourage the women to not to cover their heads with a veil in Church. The hairs are sexy. Pretend woman to be readers and Priests. Present the idea as a democratic ideal. Found a movement of liberation of the women. Who enters in to the Church must be badly dressed in order to feel at home. That will make less important the Holy Mass.
6
Dissuade the faithful in receiving the Holy Communion on their knees. Tell the nuns that they must dissuade the children from keeping their hands together before and after Communion. Tell them that God loves them as they are and that they should feel at ease.
Eliminate in the church to remain on the knees and every genuflexion. Remove the kneeling stools. Tell the people that during Mass they show their faith standing in an erect position.
7
Eliminate all the holy music played with the organ. Introduce the guitar, jew’s harps, drums, stamping, and holy laughs in the church. That distracts people from their personal prayers and from the conversations with Jesus. Do not give Jesus the time to call children to the religious life. Do liturgical dances with exciting clothes, theatres and concerts around the Altars.
8
Remove all the holy character of the songs to the Mother of God and to Saint Joseph. Indicate their veneration as idolism. Render ridiculous those who persist. Introduce Protestant songs. That will give an impression that the Catholic Church finally admits that the Protestant religion is the true religion or at least it is equal to that of the Catholic Church.
9
Eliminate all of the hymns even those to Jesus because they make the people think of happiness and serenity that derives from life of mortification and of penance for God since infancy. Introduce new songs only to convince the people that the preceding rituals in some way were false.
Assure yourselves in every Mass that there is at least one in which Jesus is not mentioned and that instead speaks only of love for men. The young people will be enthusiastic to hear someone speaking of love for the neighbour. Preach love, tolerance and unity. Do not mention Jesus, prohibit any announcements of the Eucharist.
10
Remove all of the Relics of the Saints from the Altars and then also the Altars themselves. Substitute them with pagan tables without Consecration that can be used to make human offerings during satanic masses.
Eliminate the Ecclesiastical law that want the celebration of the Holy Mass only on Altars containing Relics.
11
Interrupt the practice of the celebration of the Holy Mass at the presence of the Holy Sacrament in the Tabernacle. Do not place any Tabernacle on the Altars that are used for the celebration of the Holy Mass. The table must have the appearance of a kitchen table. It must be transportable to express that it is not at all sacred but must serve a double function as, for example, a table for conferences or for card games. Later on place a chair under the table.
The Priest must take that position to indicate that after Communion he rests as after a meal. The Priest must never be on his knees nor genuflect during the Mass.
At the meals in fact, one is never on his knees. The chair of the Priest must be placed in the position of the Tabernacle. Encourage the people to venerate and also to adore the Priest instead of the Eucharist, to obey him instead of the Eucharist. Tell the people that the Priest is Christ, their leader. Place the Tabernacle in a local place out of sight.
12
Make disappear all of the Saints from the Ecclesiastical calendar, always some in determined days. Prohibit the Priests to preach the Saints, except for those who are mentioned in the Gospel. Tell the people that eventual Protestants, probably present in the church, could be scandalised. Avoid all that disturbs the Protestants.
13
In the reading of the Gospel omit the word “holy”, for example, instead of “Gospel according to Saint John”, simply say: “Gospel according to John”. That will make the people to think that they should not venerate them anymore.
Continuously write new bibles so that they are identical to the Protestants ones. Omit the adjective “Holy” in the expression “Holy Spirit”. That will open the way. Emphasize the feminine nature of God as a mother full of sweetness. Eliminate the use of the term “Father”.
14
Make all the books on personal piety disappear and destroy them. In consequence even the Litanies to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, to the Mother of God, to Saint Joseph will cease as well as for the preparation for the Holy Communion. The giving thanks after the Communion will be superfluous.
15
Make also all of the statues and images of the Angels disappear. Why the statues of our enemies must be between our feet? Define them as myths or stories for the goodnight. Do not allow discussion on the Angels for they perturb our Protestant friends.
16
Abrogate minor exorcisms to expel the devils: work on this, announcing that the devils do not exist. Explain that it is a method adopted in the Bible to design evil and that without the evil there could not exist interesting stories.
In consequence the people will not believe in the existence of hell nor will they fear to ever fall in to it. Repeat that hell is nothing but the furthering away from God and that there is nothing terrible in that if we are speaking about the same life here on earth.
17
Teach that Jesus was only a man who had brothers and sisters and who hated the people with power. Explain that he loved the company of the prostitutes, especially Maria Magdalene; that he did not know what to do with the churches and the synagogues.
Tell them that he advised not to obey the leaders of the Clergy, explain that he was a great teacher that though he deviated from the correct path when he neglected to obey the leaders of the church. Discourage the discussion on the Cross as a victory, on the contrary present it as a failure.
18
Remember that you can endure nuns towards the betrayal of their vocation if you refer to their vanity, attractiveness and beauty. Make them change their Ecclesiastical Habit and that will make them throw away their Rosary.
Reveal to the world that in their convents there are dissents. This will dry their vocation. Tell the nuns that they will not be accepted if they do not renounce their habit. Favour the discredit of the Ecclesiastical Habit even amongst the people.
19
Burn all of the Catechisms. Tell the teachers of religion to teach love the creatures of God instead of God Himself. To openly love testifies maturity. Make that the term “sex” becomes a term of daily use in your classes of religion. Make sex a new religion. Introduce images of sex in the religious lessons to teach the children the reality. Assure yourselves that the images are clear.
Encourage the schools to become progressive thinkers in the field of sex education. Introduce the sexual education through the authority of the Bishop so that the parents will have nothing to say on the contrary.
20
Suffocate the catholic schools, impeding the vocation of the nuns. Reveal to the nuns that they are social workers who are under paid and that the Church is about to eliminate them. Insist that the catholic layman teachers receive the same wage as those of the public schools. Use non catholic teachers. The Priests must receive the same wage the corresponding secular employees. All of the Priests must put away their Clergy Vests and their Crosses in order to be accepted by everyone. Render ridiculous those who do not adapt themselves.
21
Annihilate the Pope, destroying his University. Detach the Universities from the Pope, saying that that way of governing could subsidise.
Substitute the names of the Religious Institutes with profane names, in favour of ecumenism. For example, instead of “School of the Immaculate Conception” say “New High School”. Create bodies of ecumenism in all of the Dioceses and worry about having them controlled by Protestants.
Prohibit the Prayers for the Pope and for Mary because they discourage ecumenism. Announce that the local Bishops are the competent authorities. Sustain that the Pope is only a representative figure.
Explain to the people that the teachings of the Pope is necessary only for conversation but they don’t have any meaning.
22
Fight the Authority of the Pope, placing a limit of age on his activity. Reduce him to a very little, explain that you want to preserve him from excess work.
23
Be audacious. Weaken the Pope by introducing synods of Bishops. The Pope will then become only a representative figure as in England where the High Cabinet and the Low one reign and from them the queen receives the orders. Then, weaken the authority of the Bishop, giving life to a concurrent institution at the Presbyterian level.
Say that in that way the Priests will receive the right attention.
Finally weaken the authority of the Priests with the constitution of laymen groups that dominate the Priests. In this way you will originate such a hatred that they will abandon the Church even Cardinals will do so and the Church will then be democratic…the New Church…
24
Reduce the vocation of the Priesthood, making the laymen lose their reverential fear for them. The public scandal of a Priest will annihilate thousands of vocations. Praise the Priests who for the love of a woman abandoned everything, defining them as heroes.
Honour the Priests reduced to a laymen state as authentic martyrs, oppressed to such a point that they could not support anything else. Condemn even as a scandal that our mason brethren in the Priesthood must be made known and that their names be published. Be tolerant with the homosexuals of the Clergy. Tell the people that the Priests suffer of solitude.
25
Begin the closure of the churches due to the scarcity of the Clergy. Define as good and economical this practice. Explain that God listens everywhere the prayers. In that way the church will become extravagant waste of money. Close above all the churches in which there is a traditional piety practice.
26
Use commissions of laymen and Priests who are weak in faith who condemn and reprehend without difficulty every apparition of Mary and apparent miracle, especially those of the Archangel Saint Michael. Assure yourselves that nothing of this, in no measure will receive approval according to the Vatican II.
Name disobedience in respect to the authorities if someone obeys to the Revelations or even if someone reflects on them. Indicate the Prophets as disobedient in respect to the Ecclesiastical Authority.
Cover their name with mud, so that no one will ever think of considering some part of their Message.
27
Elect and Antipope. Affirm that he will bring back the Protestants to the Church and perhaps even the Jews. An Antipope can be elected if the right to vote is given to the Bishops. Then many Antipopes will be elected so that as a compromise an Antipope will be selected. Affirm that the true Pope is dead.
28
Remove the Confession before the Holy Communion for the students of the second and third grade so that it will not be important for them when they go to the fourth or fifth grade and onto higher classes. The confession then will disappear. Introduce (in silence) the community confession with the absolution in group. Explain to the people that this happens due to the scarcity of the Clergy.
29
Make women and laymen distribute the Communion. Tell them this is the time for the laymen. Begin with the deposition of the Communion in the hands, as the Protestants, instead of on the tongue. Explain that Christ did it in the same way. Collect some hosts for the “black masses” in our temples. Distribute also instead of the personal Communion a chalice of non-consecrated hosts for the communion that one could take home with him. Explain to them that in this way they could have divine gifts in their everyday life. Place automatic distributors of hosts for communion and call them Tabernacles.
Say that there must be an exchange of the sign of peace. Encourage the people to move about the church to interrupt the prayer and the devotion. Do not make the Sign of the Cross; in place of It a sign of peace. Explain that even Christ moved to greet the Disciples. Do not allow any concentration in these moments. The Priests must turn their back to the Eucharist and honour the people.
30
After that the Antipope has been elected, dissolve the synod of the Bishops as well as the associations of the Priests and the parish counsels.
Prohibit all the religious people to make discussions without permission, on these new dispositions. Explain that God loves humbleness and hates those who aspire glory. Accuse of disobedient in respect of the Ecclesiastic Authorities all those who raise questions.
Discourage Obedience towards God. Tell the people that they must obey to these Ecclesiastic Superiors.
31
Give the Pope (=Antipope) the maximum power to choose his successors. Order under the penalty of being excommunicated all those who love God to wear the sign of the beast. Do not call it though the “sign of the beast”. The Sign of the Cross must not be done nor used on persons nor through it (one must not bless anymore). To do the Sign of the Cross will be designed as an idolatry and disobedience.
32
Declare false the preceding Dogmas, except for the Pontifical Infallibility. Proclaim Jesus Christ a failed revolutionary. Announce that the true Christ will come soon. Only the elected Antipope must be obeyed. Tell the people that they must bow when they pronounce his name.
33
Order all of the subordinates of the Pope to fight in the holy crusade to extend the only one worldwide religion. Satan knows where all of the lost gold is.
Conquer without pity the world!
All this will bring onto humanity what humanity has always yearned for: “the golden époque of peace”.
December 12, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Samskrta is the only language where an ekaakshara shloka is possible.
check this;
naa ne ne naa ne naa ne
no nuu nena nanu nunnaah
naa naa naa no nuunam
naa ne naa nu nanaa nunnah
this is taken outta the eighth sarga of Sri Madhva Vijaya by Narayana Panditachayra.
December 14, 2008 at 3:52 am
Samskrta’vak nar Thrak’hra dai Kilra’hra is the only language where an Ek’rah skabak erg Thrak’Kilrah maks Rag’nith is possible.
check this;
nar’ra nar nar nar’ra nar nar’ra nar vraxar!
nar nigarh nak’thar’ra nar’ru sharvath!
nak’thar’ra’nigath harakh!
nar nar’ra nar’ra nar nar’hrajja’mang vraxar!
nar nar nar’ra nar’ra nal’thar’nigath’ra sharvath!
nak’thar’rah harakh!
this is taken outta the eighth sharvath’vraxar’harakh of M’shrak Madh’vak Vikyah by Nargrast’hra’ni’lakh Pandit’kharrah.
December 15, 2008 at 10:34 am
INVENTIONS IN ANCIENT INDIA
Ancient India can be acredited with many acheivements. Some of them are listed here:
Earliest known precise celestial calculations: Aryabhata, an Indian Mathematician (c. 500AD) accurately calculated celestial constants like earth’s rotation per solar orbit, days per solar orbit, days per lunar orbit.
Astronomical time spans: Apart from the peoples of the Mayan civilization, the ancient Hindus appear to be the only people who even thought beyond a few thousand years. Hindu scriptures refer to time scales that vary from ordinary earth day and night to the day and night of the Brahma that are a few billion earth years long.
Theory of creation of the universe: A 9th century Hindu scripture, The Mahapurana by Jinasena claims that the world is uncreated, as time itself is, without beginning and end. And it is based on principles.
Earth goes round the sun: Aryabhata, it so happens, was apparently quite sceptical of the widely held doctrines about eclipses and also about the belief that the Sun goes round the Earth. As early as the sixth century, he talked of the diurnal motion of the earth and the appearance of the Sun going round it.
Binary System of number representation: A Mathematician named Pingala (c. 100BC) developed a system of binary enumeration convertible to decimal numerals. He described the system in his book called Chandahshaastra. The system he described is quite similar to that of Leibnitz, who was born in the 17th century.
Earliest and only known Modern Language: Panini (c 400BC), in his Astadhyayi, gave formal production rules and definitions to describe Sanskrit grammar. Starting with about 1700 fundamental elements, like nouns, verbs, vowels and consonents, he put them into classes. The construction of sentences, compound nouns etc. was explained as ordered rules operating on underlying fundamental structures.
Invention of Zero: Although ancient Babylonians were known to have used what is often called “place holders” to distinguish between numbers like 809 and 89, they were nothing more than blank spaces or at times two wedge shapes like”. The first notions of zero as a number and its uses have been found in ancient Mathematical treatise from India.
The word “Algorithm”: Al-Khwarizmi’s work, De numero indorum (Concerning the Hindu Art of Reckoning), was based presumably on an Arabic translation of Brahmagupta where he gave a full account of the Hindu numerals which was the first to expound the system with its digits 0,1,2,3,…,9 and decimal place value which was a fairly recent arrival from India. The new notation came to be known as that of al-Khwarizmi, or more carelessly, algorismi; ultimately the scheme of numeration making use of the Hindu numerals came to be called simply algorism or algorithm, a word that, originally derived from the name al-Khwarizmi.
Representing Large numbers: Mathematicians in India invented the base ten system in ancient times. But research did not stop there. The practice of representing large numbers also evolved in ancient India. notion of representing large numbers as powers of 10, one that was invented in India, turned out to be extremely handy.
More Details…
Ancient India
Achievements of Ancient India
Ancient History of India
Ancient India Agriculture
Ancient India Architechture
Ancient India Art
Ancient India Artifacts
Ancient India Caste System
Woman in Ancient India
Ancient India Civilization
Ancient India Clothing
Ancient India Culture
Ancient India Economy
Ancient India Education
Ancient India Food
Ancient India Geography
Ancient India Gods and Godesses
Ancient India Government
Ancient India Language
Ancient India Medicine
Ancient India Music
Ancient India Religion
Ancient India Technology
Ancient India Time Line
Cities of Ancient India
Daily Life in Ancient India
Facts about Ancient India
Maps of Ancient India
Mathematics in Ancient India
People of Ancient India
Pictures of Ancient India
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December 15, 2008 at 7:34 pm
10 000 BC
[Kilrah, Kilrah System]
Prehistoric sentient Kilrathi begin using instinct and natural weaponry to hunt. Proto-Kilrathi lie in wait along the trails of food-animals, and attack the weakest of the animal groups. As they become sentient they begin to build shelters out of acidic ash and gain the ability to build traps for their prey. Weapons are evolved.
3517 BC
[Kilrah, Kilrah System]
The Kilrathi begin measuring imperial history.
2632 BC
[Kilrah, Kilrah System]
The final Emperor of Kilrah System ascends the throne.
2579 BC
[Kilrah, Kilrah System]
The development cycle of the Dor-Chak laser rifle begins.
Next the Dor-Chak laser rifle enters military service.
2569 BC
[Kilrah, Kilrah System]
Interstellar technology becomes common on Kilrathi warships.
2529 BC
[Kilrah, Kilrah System]
The first KF-100 Dralthi enter Kilrathi service.
2504 BC
[Kilrah, Kilrah System]
The first variant of the Fralthi class cruiser enters service.
1454 BC
[Kilrah, Kilrah System]
The current design for Kilrathi armored uniforms is first used.
Note that India was treacly, sweet and very limp, when harsh, stiff and fanatically disciplined THRAK’KILRAH began to supersede nineteenth century technology of Earth.
December 16, 2008 at 4:17 pm
this is no place of talking about kilrah in the topics beside about sanskrit.
December 16, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Kilrah SUPERSEDES india, and sanskrit is inferior imitation of mighty Kilrathi language. Jag-ta Ga!
December 16, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Kilrah owns whole Kilrah System including Kilrah homeworld, and too many other systems, while india ever doesn’t own single planet. Sindhu Raj is inferior imitation of mighty Kilrah Empire. Jag-ta Ga!
Remember, that Kilrah already annihilated Nibiru and its evil dingir/anunnaki/igigi native reptile foulbrood, aka false gods of Nak’tara – worshipped in land of Shinar and elsewhere on Nak’tara under various names including india, destroying them all by using of our two biggest space dreadnoughts: Agon Ra Sivar and Agon Ra Kt’lan. We had SIVAR ESHRAD recently onboard both Agon Ra Sivar and Agon Ra Kt’lan, performed by shooting unto annihilation both Nibiru and whole Nibiruan population, wiping them completely for glory of Kilrah!
We too had SIVAR ESHRAD against planet Des, resulting in the same complete annihilation of their promiscuituous and adulterous alien hivemind population including their ruler – Great Mind, aka false gods of Nak’tara – worshipped in land of Atlantis and elsewhere on Nak’tara under various names, including india.
Indians, your false gods are no more.
Ek’rah skabak erg Thrak’Kilrah maks Rag’nith!
December 18, 2008 at 10:31 am
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~ My God’s Better Than Your God ~
No one has the right not to be offended
“Lying generally involves saying something is false to a person who is ENTITLED to know the truth…” “While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge trueful information to people who are not entitled to it”
Taken from the Jehovah Witnesses Watchtower Society book “Aid To Bible Understanding” which seems to have a different definition of lying than most of us.
Of course, it is the Watchtower leaders that decide just WHO deserves to know the truth ~ or at least their version of it.
~ A Visit From The Witnesses ~
Saturday afternoon and there’s a knock at the front door. Great, it’s the Jehovah’s Witnesses. I know I shouldn’t invite them in but they are so easy to bait ~ almost as easy as the Baptists.
“Would you like to accept Jesus into you heart?” One of them asks, clutching her New World Translation ~ their version of the Bible. In which they deliberately altered almost every scripture on the deity of Christ, calling Him it.
“No thanks. He didn’t actually exist. Would you like me to show you proof that Jesus didn’t exist?”
This usually produces a torent of gospel quotes and references.
Something To Think About
~ The only sources of information we have about Jesus have been copied, translated, edited, re-edited, forged, interpreted and re-written to fit the author’s purposes or prejudices.
~ There is no mention by any contemporary historians about the life of Jesus. The Gospels were written between thirty and eighty years after Jesus’s supposed death and it is highly unlikely that the authors would have met Him.
“Do you realize that only true believers will be able to enter Heaven?”, they persist.
“It’s going to be a very lonely place then because according to your Watchtower, 15th.Dec.1968, only 144,000 Jehovah’s Witnesses will be allowed in, and the soul of anyone who does not join their organization will be destroyed.”
~ Some Facts About The Jehovah Witnesses ~
These are all taken from the Witnesses own publications.
~ Jesus Christ ~ Michael the Archangel in their doctrine ~ is the mediator for only a small, elite group within the Witnesses called the “anointed remnant”. Others must earn their salvation through this controling group by absolute obedience to it. ~ Watch Tower 1st.Feb. 1991 and 1st. March 1979.
~ All religions except their own are under the control of Satan and the Priests, Pastors, etc. are under the Devil’s control. ~ Truth and Eternal Life, pages 132 ~ 137 As an ordained Minister in The Universal Life Church this really annoys me.
~ The Watchtower Society is the only source of truth and that all other churches are teaching the Devils words and will be destroyed when Armageddon arrives. ~ Watchtower 1st. April 1988.
~ Armageddon and the second coming of Christ were predicted to occur in 1874, 1914, 1925 and 1975, (thus earning them the nickname of ‘the non-prophet’ organization). ~ Watchtower 1st.Dec.1890, 15th.Jan.1892, 15th. Oct.1917.
~ When Christ failed to show up in 1914 The Society, in later years claimed that in fact He did appear ~ invisibly of course. ~ Paradise On Earth, 1930
~ The salvation of Society members can be gained by winning converts and getting subscriptions for the Watchtower magazines and books. ~ Watchtower 15th Aug. 1972.
~ Jesus was not Christ until the age of 30, even though their own bible says so in Luke 2:11 “because there was born to you taday a Savior, who is Christ the Lord”. ~ Things In Which It Is Impossible For God To Lie.
~ After Jesus was buried in the tomb, Jehovah dissolved His body in gases and it disappeared forever. ~ Watchtower 1st Sept 1953.
~ Because Jesus rose after three days, Jehovah had to make a fake body for Jesus, complete with fake nail holes, so that the Disciples would believe that it really was Jesus. ~ Make Sure You Are Ready. 1952
Recruitment Methods
It should be bourne in mind that The Watchtower Society warns the Witnesses that certain type of information is not ‘uplifting’ or ‘wholesome’ ~ meaning that it may show the truth about organization or lead to people asking questions about the Society.
This is enforced by peer group pressure or ’suggestions’ that have the significance of commands and through unrelenting reminders and repetition they are instructed on
~ which television programmes they can watch,
~ which books are suitable for reading,
~ which sites they can visit on the internet and,
~ which plays or movies they can attend.
It’s always seemed odd to me that adult, responsible people would follow such a Stalinesque type of mind control.
Some Fallacies In Their Reasoning
Circular Reasoning A chain of reasoning that is supported by the arguement it contains:
The Bible is true because it is the word of God. The Bible tells us that God doesn’t tell lies so the Bible must be true, don’t you agree?
They never mention that their version of the Bible, The New World Translation, was translated by a committee that contained no scholars of Biblical Greek or Hebrew.
Hobson’s Choice A choice that provides no choice at all:
If you disagree with what I’m saying, let’s study these leaflets. If you do agree, let me take you to Kingdom Hall on Sunday.
Both choices expose you to their indoctrination. There is another choice ~ kick them out the door and tell the local Kingdom Hall that you want to be put on the ‘no visit’ list.
Validating By Antiquity
The Bible has survived for over 2000 years so it must be true!
If that’s true what about the Bhava Gita, Vedas and Upanishads, the Illyiad or Gilgamesh? As they are all older than the Bible does that mean they contain more truth?
Treating An Abstract As A Reality
I can assure you that God is real. I’ve felt him in my heart.
I can think of several ways to explain this without involving any sort of Divine presence.
Stressing the ‘New Light’ Approach
Yes, I know that Armageddon didn’t happen we predicted in 1975 (or 1874, 1914 and 1925) and I admit that there may have been some slight errors in the past but, as we keep receiving ‘New Light’ from Brooklyn our light just keeps growing “brighter and brighter”.
Their light getting “brighter and brighter” allows them the many changes, reversals and ‘U turns’ in their doctrines and dogma. They have disowned their founder, Charles Taze Russell, because he taught that the resurrection began in 1878 and was still teaching this in 1925. In 1927 they changed their minds about this and The Watchtower Society said that “the resurrection of the sleeping saints did not take place in 1878.” and that anyone who said that it started on that date is an ‘apostate’ and could not be fellowshipped with.
If yesterdays’ truths are todays’ lies what will they be teaching tomorrow?
Using An Authority Figure
Albert Einstein believed in God. Are you an Einstein?
Faith has nothing to do with intellegence. Just because the man was a genius in one field, it does not mean that his religious opinions had to be seen as a proven fact.
Copernicus was also a genius but his books proving that the earth revolved around the sun were banned by the church because they went against their teaching ~ that the sun revolved around the earth.
Popular Appeal ~ Stating that because a large number of people believe something then it must be true.
“Surely you must agree that the Bible is the most widely distributed book of all time?”
At one time everybody knew that the earth was flat.
Of course, if their religion was true why aren’t there more Witnesses about. Out of the six billion people on the planet only six million are Jehowah’s Witnesses ~ less than a one thousandth of the population.
Cherished Beliefs
We all have certain cherished beliefs, some of which are very important to us and are not easily given up. Some of them are so fudimental to our sense of well-being that we can never talk about them dispassionately. We can’t let them not be true.
A good example is racism. Most people know that racism is wrong and will not even listen to some one who thinks otherwise. If you’ve ever debated with an ardent racist you’ll know the futility of trying to convince them that their point of view is wrong because their faith in their beliefs is just as strong as yours.
~ Sometimes we have to remind ourselves that people with contary opinions are not holding on to them just to be annoying.
Most of us have a set of beliefs that are “set in stone” and often set up in such a way that removing one brick may cause the whole ediface to crumble, so we have a vested interest in proving to one and all (and especially to ourselves) that we are right. It is very difficult to objectively weigh up the pros and cons of our core beliefs.
In theory, intelligent people should be able to discuss a topic and rationally determine whether a particular idea is supported by the evidence, or is at least strongly implied by what we know. However, rationality is not the main component of our psyches, so “reasonable discussion” is often derailed by human nature.
Sometimes, in our determination to convince, we may avoid giving due consideration to what may be true and sensible and end up defending the indefensible.
If the matter of contention is linked to our world-view and core beliefs we end up not looking for the truth, but trying to hang on to what we already think.
Mental Defence Mechanisms and Strategies of Antiprocess
Some of the techniques we use to stop ourselves from processing information with the full power of rationality.
These are used to protect our core beliefs and world-view from contrary beliefs and thoughts that we wish to avoid. Many of them are learnt in childhood and are used unconsciously.
Irrational Blocking
“It can’t happen to me.” Smoking, heavy drinking, risk taking in general are all known to be dangerous but those indulge in them refuse to, dare not consider, how absurd that statement is.
Practical Blocking
Thinking along the lines of “this line of thought has only caused me pain in the past, so I won’t think about it now.”
This is one of the few strategies that is done consciously.
Rhetorical Fallacies
Using certain patterns of thought that are not logically supported. The include such devices as “Validating by Antiquity” and “Using an Authority Figure”
Self-Censoring
Deliberatately forgetting reasoning that seems to be true but will force them to accept an uncomfortable or disturbing conclusion.
Avoiding the Source
Rationalizing a reason for removing themselves from the source of contradictory ideas ~ “I refuse to talk to such a stupid man”. Often used with hostility in the hope of making the source of disturbing information go away.
Sublimation and Distracting
Can range from things such as whistling, singing, humming loudly to getting drunk, taking drugs, etc. Setting up a distraction can help soften the focus of an idea or thought we may find disturbing.
Nitpicking
Focusing on one small aspect of the entire problem, declaring that is a non-problem, and generalizing the conclusion to cover the entire matter.
Using a ‘Straw Man’
Misunderstanding the issue and describing it in such a way that it can be dispensed with.
Smoke Screen
Raising petty objections to an idea faster than they can be addressed so that no meaningful analysis can take place.
Ad Hominems
Attacking the person raising the issue and not the issue itself ~ “he’s got long hair so he doesn’t know what he’s talking about”.
Deferral
Raising an objection and not pursuing it if it is not answered. The lack of an answer is then taken as to mean that the issue is unanswerable.
Strategies of Validation
Techniques we use to reassure ourselves of the truth of what we already know.
Negative Validation
Successfully fending off a disproof of a belief and taking this as confirmation of that belief, even if the disproof was faulty or badly presented.
Positive Validation
Engaging in an activity that actively boosts existing beliefs such as attending your church, going to a political rally for your favourite party, etc.
Selective Validation
Engaging in an activity that on the surface seems to callenge your beliefs but in reality is guaranteed to give you the result you will be most comfortable with. This includes things like reading material that you know you will agree with, or associating exclusively with like-minded people.
Quasi-perilous Validation
Engaging in what may appear to be a belief-threatening activity, but doing it in such a way that, in fact, there is no risk.
People with good defences, such as using rhetorical fallacies, can engage in this type of “mock battle” and are guaranteed a victory over the threat. This victory is the reason for the risk as it “proves” the belief in proportion to the perceived threat. An example: someone who stubbornly clings to a point no matter what, will emerge from the argument without having given in: this is a “victory”.
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December 18, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Only Catholic Church and all its direct previous stages back to its direct Adamic Proto-Indo-European stage is true and monopolistically allright. This will cut off all futile divagations of disbelievers about superiority of confused Kilrathi heritage/language over confused Bharati heritage/language and vice versa, because when two fictions fights and dies, One Catholic Truth become victorious. Luther, Zwingle and Calvin were driven by devils from hell – see “Exorcisms of Emily Rose”, that debunks whole protestantism as hellish parody of Heavenly Catholicism. Bible is compiled from private and public revelations including those occured 6000 years ago, when bodies of Adam and Eve were created directly inside holes in ground from earthly substance by God, along with souls created directly from nothing through intermediate God’s Creative Imagination and then sent to bodies of Adam and Eve by temporary God’s light beams shining from God Holy Father+God Holy Son+God Holy Spirit = Most Holy Trinity = Triple Concentric Sphere (density value of each Person increases toward center in three stages, while diameter value of each Person decreases toward center in three stages) for this purpose, and next freed by Him to surface of Earth as Bible and Emmerich states jointly.
Your false pagan gods – wooden/stone etc… dolls without consciousness and soul are meaning for me NOTHING, thus infinitely less than Most Holy Trinity that is of Infinite Value to me.
December 18, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Arcade machines are more sentient than false pagan “gods” of india, etc… and we are rationally not worshipping these arcade machines at all.
It’s shame that indians that are rationally using arcade machines for fun are irrationally worshipping nonsentient “gods” that can do infinitely less than most obsolete and obscure arcade machine which at least performs some playing/moving action on screen.
If worshipping pagan “gods” would be rational, then we should too worship arcade machines. Of course such behavior is mad and psychiatrically stupid in both cases.
http : / / www . hanaho . com
December 18, 2008 at 4:47 pm
KILRAH IS MUCH FICTIOUS THAN DEAD GHOST.
CATHELICSM IS MUCH STONGER THAN LIVING GHOSTS.
ACRADE PC REQUIRES FORMATING.
BUT SANSKRIT IS DEVINE.
December 18, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Its funny though,people who cannot tolerate other peoples believes,form of worship etc,call themselves liberal,rational,free thinkers,secularist etc.These guys only know how to hate others and denigrate other religions,because they can never come out of their well.
December 18, 2008 at 5:48 pm
nirjhar check this out
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=wYaK2BGGoIw
December 18, 2008 at 5:51 pm
traslation:
I am that which prevails everywere
complete in itself
I am shiva the deity of eternal bliss
I am Joy it self I am bliss it self
December 18, 2008 at 6:11 pm
atma shaktam
1) I am not mind, nor intellect, nor ego,
nor the reflections of inner self (chitta). [more]
I am not the five senses. [more]
I am beyond that.
I am not the ether, nor the earth,
nor the fire, nor the wind (the five elements).
I am indeed,
That eternal knowing and bliss, Shiva,
love and pure consciousness.
2) Neither can I be termed as energy (prana),
nor five types of breath (vayus), [more]
nor the seven material essences, [more]
nor the five coverings (pancha-kosha). [more]
Neither am I the five instruments of elimination,
procreation, motion, grasping, or speaking. [more]
I am indeed,
That eternal knowing and bliss, Shiva,
love and pure consciousness.
3) I have no hatred or dislike,
nor affiliation or liking,
nor greed,
nor delusion,
nor pride or haughtiness,
nor feelings of envy or jealousy.
I have no duty (dharma),
nor any money,
nor any desire (kama),
nor even liberation (moksha).
I am indeed,
That eternal knowing and bliss, Shiva,
love and pure consciousness.
4) I have neither merit (virtue),
nor demerit (vice).
I do not commit sins or good deeds,
nor have happiness or sorrow,
pain or pleasure.
I do not need mantras, holy places,
scriptures (Vedas), rituals or sacrifices (yagnas).
I am none of the triad of
the observer or one who experiences,
the process of observing or experiencing,
or any object being observed or experienced.
I am indeed,
That eternal knowing and bliss, Shiva,
love and pure consciousness.
5) I do not have fear of death,
as I do not have death.
I have no separation from my true self,
no doubt about my existence,
nor have I discrimination on the basis of birth.
I have no father or mother,
nor did I have a birth.
I am not the relative,
nor the friend,
nor the guru,
nor the disciple.
I am indeed,
That eternal knowing and bliss, Shiva,
love and pure consciousness.
6) I am all pervasive.
I am without any attributes,
and without any form.
I have neither attachment to the world,
nor to liberation (mukti).
I have no wishes for anything
because I am everything,
everywhere,
every time,
always in equilibrium.
I am indeed,
That eternal knowing and bliss, Shiva,
love and pure consciousness.
December 18, 2008 at 6:12 pm
hear atma shaktam by Deva Premal (born in 1970 in Germany), is a musician known for her meditative New Age music, which puts ancient Hindu mantras into atmospheric, contemporary settings.
Deva has toured since 1991, along with her life partner Miten, offering concerts and chant workshops worldwide. Their record company, Prabhu Music, reports sales of over 600,000 albums.
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fyj88J6A90&NR=1
December 18, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Shiva primitive toy worshipped in india is much worser “joy” than playing with arcade joy sticks in my ArcadePC machine. Wandering by using joy sticks inside VRML/X3D arcade worlds is much better and gives much more fun.
Programmable/robotic intelligent ArcadePC rulez, non-programmable/non-robotic non-intelligent Shiva suxx.
December 18, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Sanskrit cannot be divine, because it contains only 46,9% of all PIE roots as Gerhard Kobler says here: http : / / www . koeblergerhard . de / germanistischewoerterbuecher / indogermanischeswoerterbuch / idgVORWORT . pdf . PIE is Catholic Divine Language instead and has 100% if its roots. Bible and Emmerich says TRUTH: http : / / indo-european . eu / wiki / index . php / Adamic_language .
December 18, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Hideous “new age” henchman Deva Premal by his “atma shaktam” promotes “new world order” and “new world religion” and obeys only illuminati satanists. He is more dangerous that blatant blackhole death metal hellspawn satanism and its unholy “metallica alcohollica” songs too driven by illuminati, because he subverts people to devil in more hideous way. Heavy metal is easier to fight, because its evil is blatantly obvious as evil of unholy “doom metal” and “quake metal” computer games.
December 19, 2008 at 2:28 am
Kilrah tugaga Jak-Ta Haganaska duka Agharti’ra, Maitreya’ra!
Agharti, Maitreya = sharvath, vraxar, harakh!
Ek’rah skabak erg Thrak’Kilrah maks Rag’nith!
December 19, 2008 at 10:17 am
V YOU ARE RIGHT.
245 UN UNDERSTANDEBLE.
244 ABOLTABOL.
PIE IS LIE.
ACRADE PC WELL, REFORMAT MAN(IF YOU ARE A MAN).
December 19, 2008 at 10:31 am
actualy it is 99 rest is changed due to uncopyble sanskrit words
December 19, 2008 at 3:33 pm
All non-Catholic false cat faiths are blatant lies on par with Goebbels blatant lies.
Whole pagan indian falsehood cat faith is nothing more than promiscuituous sensual decadent and lovely sweetie lolly mask of very furious and raging devils from hell designed to subvert souls to hell from way to Heaven.
False indian pagan cat faith is a secondary satanic PARASITE adaptation of primary Godful confusion occured at Babel to prevent satanic unity of humanity. God as reward for conversion to Catholicism offers full annulment of this confusion – see here: http : / / indo-european . eu / wiki / index . php / Adamic_language
December 19, 2008 at 4:22 pm
THE ARYAN RACE
the aryan race is actualy a hyperborean race lived in the region of antarctic 20000 years back till the ice age struck, after the ice age the people living on that region were forced to come south.
coming on south they built many tribes who settled in mid regions like caucasias,steps,eastern europe and mid asian region.
there was a medditerian race named dravidian race
which also joined with the aryan race laterly and build little darker skinned latin,spanian,italian, greek and indo iranian etc tribes.
but the celtic,german,saxons etc north western tribes were un touched with the revolution and with that i am not afraid to say they were also BARBARIC in nature as their lands werent fully ideal.
END OF PART 1
ORIGIN:BAL GANGADHAR TILAKS VIEW ON ARYAN RACE.
December 19, 2008 at 4:28 pm
the word GOD is taken from sanskrit GOUH(THE HOLY COW).
December 19, 2008 at 4:46 pm
God is from PIE ghau – call (in prayer), not from PIE guou – cow. You are pseudo scientist like Sitchin or Daeniken and you lie. You should end in dungeon for your heresies!
December 19, 2008 at 4:58 pm
God has nothing to do with mindless unholy cow comparable to unholy satanic goat, but He is mindful concentrically tri-spherical Most Holy Trinity, called in prayer. PIE people originated in Israel – PIE streibh-al-m near Jerusalem – PIE ureg-solo-m 6000 years ago beginning from Adam and Eve. Hyperborean age/race is fiction from masonic foulbrood books entitled “Conan the Barbarian” and never existed. Earth earlier than 6000 years ago back to creation of physical world occured about 7 000 000 years ago was without humans, as Louise Starr Tomkiel says: http : / / www . giftstor . org / tomkiel05fst . html Louise Starr Tomkiel says to that if you do not repent anc convert to Catholicism, hell will devour you eternally because of your declarative eternal stubbornes in evil.
December 20, 2008 at 9:48 am
there is nothig like pie its hyperborean.
December 20, 2008 at 9:52 am
MIND IT JESUSES CHRISTIANISM IS JUST A STRUCTURE OF IMPROVED JEWISM.
December 20, 2008 at 10:07 am
mind it vedic hinduism is a structure of mind knowledge with prosper.
December 20, 2008 at 10:22 am
AND TDT DONT MIND THE WORDS THEY ARE RUDE TRUTHS.
December 20, 2008 at 5:37 pm
You are calling Adamic Proto-Indo-European as “hyperborean”, because you call Jerusalem as “initial populational Edenic pole of Earth” and its language as near to “Jerusalem’s pole”, thus originating first to Jerusalem’s neighborhood, then rest of Earth.
Adamism became Noahism, then Noahism became Abrahamism, then Abrahamism became Judaism, then Judaism became Christianism. All that are succeeding stages of One Real Faith of Trispherical Concentrical Most Holy Trinity.
Human-only hinduism is on par with human-only scientology – both are mental human-only divagational constructs on par with human-only scientific theories like darwinist or socialist, that are without God’s authority, being never ever revealed from Trispherical Concentrical Most Holy Trinity.
December 20, 2008 at 7:44 pm
whats the problem with you guys,we Hindus don’t denigrate catholicism,we respect your right to worship your holy trinity.But at the same time you must understand we have our own right to worship our gods.live and let others live.why you show so much animosity against others.
December 20, 2008 at 7:50 pm
I don’t believe in any PIE,does PIE have any evidence,did we find any great epics,prose,poetry or literature in pure pie.somebody cooks up something about pie and everybody believes in pie.I think all the dating systems are flawed and i don’t think there is any science involved in method of comparison to evaluate dates.TO me PIE just is another harry potter story.
December 20, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Spiritual Dimensions of the Economic Meltdown- Morales 1of2
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=eV6xDcjb1mY
December 20, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Your false gods are in reality hellspawn raging satans identical to those seen in DOOM and QUAKE masqueraded by sweetie lollie appearance and I really want you in Heaven, not in hell. I fight with your masonization that has properties of New World Order, New World Religion, occultism, esoterism, Harry Potter, magick, witchcraft, wizardry, warlockry, etc… at once to SAVE you from hell, really! Thus please accept Jesus Christ and His Passion in Catholic Church, repent and convert, become baptized, do good confession or hell will devour you eternally if you will prefer your New Age freemasonic ideologies. End Times of Apocalypse are NOW: http : / / www . giftstor . org / tomkiel05fst God says in His Catholic Revelations that your “cat faith” is satanic=masonic on par with nazism, sovietism, etc… and from hell and NEVER EVER from Himself, and that you are masonized/satanized people, like Anton Shandor la Vey and Alisteir Crowley and that your masonization is only reason of your persistent heresy. I give you Catholic truth, but you masonists refuse it, even at cost of your eternal damnation. What a idiocy – being descendants of PIE Adam and Eve and refuse their faith and language. You are traitors on par with Judas Iscariot that are trying to be in hell at any cost. You will first accept chip 666-mark of the beast when your Maitreya-antichrist will command you to do it. After that you will become mind-controlled zombies without freewill, and your hellish fate will be sealed forever. God will try to save you by Shocking Warning, then by punishment=convertment in Earth, and if all His saving efforts fails, you will end in hell for ever because you will eternally prefer some pseudo-cool and pseudo-trendy things on par with those present in DOOM and QUAKE.
December 20, 2008 at 9:26 pm
You post-Babel confused Hindus that forgot about your Proto-Indo-European Adamic origins and Adamic faith being now in Catholic stage, you are killing Catholic Christians who knowns fact that PIE=Adamic.
http : / / www . milligazette . com / dailyupdate / 2006 / 20060908_Anti_Christian_Violence_India_terrorism . htm
PIE texts exists:
Ówis ékwōs-kwe. Ówis, kwésio wl̥̄nā ne (é)est, ékwoms spekét, óinom karúm wóghom wéghontm̥, óinom-kwe mégām bhórom, óinom-kwe ghmónm̥ ṓku bhérontm̥. Ówis nu ékwobh(i)os (é)wewkwét: “Kr̥d ághnutoi moí, ékwoms ágontm̥ wrom wídn̥tei”. Ékwōs tu wewkwónt: “Kludhí, ówi! kr̥d ághnutoi n̥sméi wídn̥tbh(i)os: anér, pótis, ówjom-r̥ wl̥̄nām s(w)ébhi khermóm wéstrom kwr̥néuti”. Ówjom-kwe wl̥̄nā ne ésti. Tod kékluwos ówis ágrom (é)bhugét.
God wants your return to unconfused Adamic PIE state as reward for your conversion to Catholicism. Your Hindus etc… nationalities are only temporary result of God’s punishment at Babel for Babel-related satanic worship, sentenced to prevent our ancestors from being “one world under satan” because our ancestors willingly refused being “ONE WORLD UNDER GOD” and because you still refuse being “ONE WORLD UNDER GOD”.
December 21, 2008 at 10:55 am
THE FUTURE:Civilizations have generally been molded by religions. Before, people were not in touch with one another as today, because of lack of communication, and lack of means of transport, creating, what can be called pocket civilizations. When a civilization becomes refined to a certain extent, added with lack of communication, as well as lack of interest in trying to understand other civilization, it makes people believe that their civilization is the best in the world. During the British Raj, since it was the winner, British Empire along with its appendage Christianity had a major impact in the world. The ruling class at that time believed that their civilization was the best and let the world believe so as well.
‘MODERN’ CHRISTIANITY:Largest number of countries in the world is under Christianity. In Europe, the effect of Christianity is however very much less marked with an average of only 50 % of the people believing in (Christian) God. In the UK less than 3 percent go to church regularly. People think religion, as represented by Christianity (Northern Ireland), is the cause of war. The rich churches have become empty houses, which are taken over by other religious groups. People are trying to find peaceful alternatives, like paganism. In intellectual discussions, secular minds are given prominence to religious ones. In the USA however, things are quite different. 95% of the people living there believe in God. This has baffled the scientific community. In the early part of this century, perhaps following Darwin’s theory, the number of people believing in God was less. I think one of the reason is, USA, the land of opportunity, knows the importance of combining religion, with media and money. The commercial media about God everyday constantly hammers people. The philosophy is, religion sells and does earn money, and it is a big business. This has not caught up in Europe as yet. At the moment in the USA the people are hammered by the Christian faith so people believe in the God of that faith. If this faith changes another God could take its place- the commercialisation remaining the same.
THE FUTURE OF MANKIND:As mentioned above, the world is constantly changing. Because of freedom, People do not like any sort of rules. What they do is change the rules, create new rules. Rules are restrictive, which is contrary to the notion of freedom. The freedom part of things gives them the freedom, to create new rules. They like to be different and create a different trend. They will need philosophical guidance (as given by religion like Hinduism) but not rigid laws (as given by Semitic religions). Concept of family is gradually diminishing. In some ways we are gradually becoming animals. The only philosophy/religion we will be governed by will be “don’t hurt”. This could be applied to humans, animals and vegetation. This will perhaps be the religious philosophy in the coming century, apart from yoga and meditation, which are techniques to attain something- one has to master those skills like a surgeon masters the art of operation. Since the surgical skill will always be there, similarly, yoga and meditation will also be there. There could also be further hybridization of religions e.g. taking yoga and meditation from Hinduism and taking the God from the other religions (depending upon which religion’s God is glamorous and which God people know). Sufism, though not excepted by mainstream Islam, is a clear example of hybridization of religions. It has to be mentioned here that religion is not important for a modern person with its rigid laws, they will however except guidance as given in Hinduism. People of modern society will however always need God: for they want somebody to help them in this severely competitive world where there are failures as much as successes. Loneliness amongst a crowd, will not be an exception.
What is in Hinduism that fits the modern world?
ANS:1. The highest authority book, the Vedas, say that Truth (God) is one but it is only people who call it by different names. This is a very inclusive statement. It gives respect to other religions and opinions. Hinduism does not believe that all religions are the same but what it believes is that all religions are attempting to reach God, the incomprehensible one, in different ways. This philosophy fits into the modern philosophy of respect for other religions. The concept of development of interfaith relations in the modern world arises from this.
2. Hinduism is the only religion whose numbers of years since creation is similar to what the scientist have found in terms of billions.
3. Hinduism teaches about respect of quality and ecological balance. Hinduism does this by respecting not only humans, but also animals like cows and various plants, which are beneficial to human beings and who have qualities, as well. Hinduism knows their importance. Hinduism has always taught about the balance of the universe and the importance of every living and non-living thing, which helps to maintain that balance (ecology). It does not teach us that every thing is created for man and he should not bother, about other inhabitants of the world. Modern society also has a similar attitude, like Hindus that we need to preserve our world. Modern society has found out that animals also have intelligence and have the ability to learn like us. They have trained monkeys and parrots who have shown the ability to correspond with us about their feelings. We have just begun to understand the animal world. The concept of monkeys should have rights, like human, is coming. Forest conservation is a very well known fact in Hinduism. In other words Hinduism understands ecology like the modern society.
4. Hinduism gives importance to knowledge- It says that according to action (training) and circumstances people are divided into four groups or varnas. The goal of which is to elevate every varna to the Brahmin (One who is learned and a teacher). It is important to note here that a Brahman’s (teacher’s) son or daughter, does not automatically become Brahmin. The concept of Brahmans offspring becoming a Brahman, by birth alone, was a result of distortion of Hindu culture, because of various factors, which is against the Hindu teachings and therefore cannot be called part of Hindu religion. They are born as Sudras and have to make their way up, according to training, they opt for and receive. Similarly a Sudra’s children can also become Brahmins after training e.g. Narad and other rishis. If a Brahmin does not show proper conduct, he looses respect and becomes a Sudra. The modern world recognizes the fallacy of the communist propaganda, of people being equal. Like Hindus, the modern society gives importance to making people learned and also recognises training of people, giving them respect, as per their training.
5. Equality of sexes- While Hinduism did not give enough direct encouragement, for woman to educate, it did not hinder woman, who were determined to succeed. This is evidenced by the fact that Hinduism is the only society, which can boast of woman intellectuals (as discussed later), who were writers of scriptures and others, who have even acted as judges in great intellectual discussion, let alone being just member of audience. In fact in the Vedic period there were equal. Modern society gives equal opportunity to men and women.
6. The technique of Yoga and meditation, which are very useful for the modern individual, in relieving stress and improving health, can also give human being super human qualities. Many yogis have shown such qualities. The present scientific community looks for such powers. Hinduism is the only religion, which gives us yoga and meditation, which in turn gives us the opportunity to observe the paranormal (otherwise we would not have anything to go beyond the normal). In fact scientists are doing special scans on the brains when people are in deep meditation. They have in fact found that in deep meditation a part of brain becomes very inactive. Hinduism gives them a chance to observe the mysteries of nature and study it. Though it must be stated here clearly that, yoga and meditation are for attaining God and not to show power. Similarly research is going on to see, if people do have incarnation. All these concepts give the people of modern society, the opportunity to solve the mystery of creation and to further understand the cosmos.
This philosophy of Hinduism says that all the people of the world should be treated as a family. This is an action oriented, great philosophy. This is to say that we have a divine tie together and not a worldly tie. This peaceful slogan does not limit to any creed, race or color. It recognizes the diversity at the same time. This is distinctly different from the Adam and Eve family, because the propagation of family after Adam and Eve was, logically, out of incest relationship, amongst their siblings. The brotherhood of mankind of Hinduism does not rely on incest. The modern world also says, we all are not very different; it goes further and says that close relative marriage causes health problems, which Hinduism advises not to as well.
8. Karma and reincarnation-
This theory says that the present situation of a person is the result of past performances, in previous lives. It also says that better performance in this life, will lead to better life, after this. This concept blames the person involved for a bad life (yes we human do make mistakes, we need to learn from our mistakes and progress), but at the same time gives him/her the opportunity to do good, in this life, for a better next life. It does not blame God, because God is beyond blame. In Semitic religions, logically the blame has to go to God, if it is nobody’s fault. Modern philosophy is also individualistic.
9. Peace-Some religions talk about their religion supporting peace in the world. The very mantra of Hinduism calls, not only for peace in the world but peace in space, vegetation and the spiritual world, as well. This is a very catholic philosophy. Support of peace by modern civilization is well known. One can easily see that Hinduism goes even further than the modern civilization.
10. Vegetarianism-This is increasing in the west. Many people are understanding the rationale of it. Taking life out of a living being is a sin. The fact is that one cannot live without eating. For our selfish existence, one has to commit the sin of taking others life, in order to live. Hinduism teaches us that killing plants for our food, is definitely an evil act because we are taking life away, for our selfish needs, but since we cannot do without eating, killing plants is regarded as lesser evil than killing animals. I am sure everybody would agree that plants are a lower forms of life than animals- hence the lesser evil. Yes this makes us sensitive and hence civilized.
Here I would like to mention ahimsa. Some writers have suggested that ahimsa or non-violence, is totally foreign to Hindu dharma, which I think is not true. Others like Gandhi have suggested, it teaches ahimsa. The truth is Hindu dharma teaches, both himsa and ahimsa- important thing is the cause of himsa or ahimsa. It all depends upon the situation at the time of the incident. It is difficult to make a strict rule of himsa or ahimsa because circumstances change. People give example of Krishna’s advice to Arjuna to fight, in Gita and say that Hinduism teaches violence. Yes it is true Krishna teaches violence in Gita. One has to remember that the conversation in Gita is taking place, just at the beginning of a war. Conversation at the place of war cannot be of peace, when people are ready to kill one another. It can only be of defense and action. If an army man refuses to fight in war, he is called a coward and is shot.
If one wants to judge Krishna’s teaching, then one has to see the things done by Krishna, to avoid both the Mahabharat war, through his peace proposals, and the exodus to Dwaraka, to avoid war. We must not forget that this is very much part of ahimsa he is teaching. Yes Hinduism teaches both himsa and ahimsa, but it wants a full justification, for the necessity of himsa. Yes himsa can be justified, but it should be the last, and the only option available under the circumstance. One action in one situation is good, while in another it is not. The act may not be important but the cause of the act is important. For the act is done and done with, but the cause remains part of the history for others to follow.
11. Belief-
Hinduism does not encourage people just to believe in scriptures, it teaches people to rationally analyze the knowledge they are provided instead of believing in it just because they are part of the religion. One is allowed to decipher the truth by themselves, with the help of Yoga and Meditation and rational arguments. There is no place for dogma in Hinduism and no human being has the authority/right to give a decree.
December 21, 2008 at 4:59 pm
nirjhar, i found this site very interesting,having links to books of many authors,who understood our history properly
http://www.voi.org/books/
December 21, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Krishna and Arjuna war criminals are on par with Nazi/Soviet war criminals. Hackcross – occult evil falsely called “swastika=good being” is used on both sides. These all murderous white power, yellow power, red power and black power fascist scums are against human brotherhood having roots in Adam and Eve and their Adamic faith (currently in Catholic stage) and Adamic PIE language. Because Adam and Eve are our common parents, we all, whites, yellows, reds and blacks are from common Adamic PIE language and common Adamic faith (currently in Catholic stage). Any heretic who is against our pan-human Adamic/Catholic Communion under Catholic God, is a heretic driven by satanic beast from hell, and should be exorcized and converted back to God and His Catholicism.
Our Catholic God (I only follow His Knowledge) classifies your hinduism as equal with satanism and masonism: http : / / www . giftstor . org / tomkiel05fst
“My Church and every country will then be ruled by One World Order, Freemasons, Nazis, Communists all posing as ‘good for you’ leaders. Soon their masks will fall and you will see how ugly sin through control or control through sin can really be. But then it will be TOO LATE!”
“Then God spoke, “You are now witnessing the beginning of the cruelty to be imposed upon My people by One World Order, Communism, Nazism, Freemasonry, any one NOT OF ME!”
“Now, mom, all will witness the capabilities of evil men- -Masons, Communists, Islams, Hindu, Buddhists, all One World Order, all totally against God for all deny His existence.”
Now you know God’s Truth. You can accept It and convert back to Catholicism and Adamic Proto-Indo-European, or begin to blaspheme against These Holy God’s Truths, hardening your souls even unto your eternal damnation. Please choose Eternal Life, not eternal death. Clinging to confused counterfeit nation and its heresies is not worthy eternal damnation. Instead, clinging to unconfused genuine Adamic Proto-Indo-European pan-human nation and Adamic faith (now in Catholic stage) is worthy Eternal Salvation.
December 21, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Catholic visionary Maria Valtorta confirms disappearing of all confuseed tongues and all confusees by transforming them back by God into original Adamic Proto-Indo-European speech and race as described by Anne Catherine Emmerich: http : / / indo-european . eu / wiki / index . php / Adamic_language
http : / / www . voxdomini . com . pl / valt / valt / v-07-011 . htm
(translated from Polish using this:
http : / / translatica . pwn . pl / index . php
“Now He rose from the dead. He made everything. He was praised already before his incarnation. Three times He is praised now when he annihilated Himself in the body for so many years giving Himself, leading the obedience to such an excellence could die on the Cross for filling the will of God up. He will ascend to the Heaven by so much praised in His praised body and will enter the eternal Glory beginning reigning which Israel didn’t understanded. He is calling – to this Kingdom like never before, insistently, with love and the – authority all tribes of world. All nations will come to the Saviour, the same as it they could see and they predicted just of Israel and Prophets. And there will already be no Jews nor Romans, no Scytes nor Africans, no Iberians nor Celts, no Egyptians nor Phrygians. Living behind the Euphrates will unite around with the ones from above the eternal River. People of the North, at the side of Numidians, will come to its Kingdom. Races and dialects will disappear. There will already be no differences [resulting around] of clothes, the skin colour or hair. There will be one boundless, shining and clean people, one speech and one love. So there will be a Kingdom of God. Kingdom of Heaven. Eternal Monarch: Offered as the victim and rose from the dead. Eternally [existing] subjects: the ones which adopted His faith. Be willing to believe in order to be them.”
Opposing This God’s Plan is heresy. No counterfeit confused identity is more worthy than unconfused Genuine Identity of God’s Children in Heaven.
December 22, 2008 at 9:52 am
I ALSO FIND THE SITE INTERESTING FOR PEOPLE WHO WANTS TO KNOW ABOUT OUR CULTURE AND DHARM VENKAT.
December 22, 2008 at 10:37 am
AND ABOUT JESUS:The story of Jesus was originally an allegorical story based partly on the Jewish exodus myth and Joshua/Jesus ben Nun, successor of Moses, the Jewish Messiah-myth and the widespread pagan myth of the dying and resurrected godman Dionysos-Osiris. Later uneducated Christians in Rome, people without the insight and understanding of the deeper meaning of the texts, started to take these allegorical stories for their face value, and Literary Christianity as we know it was born.
JESUS IS FALSE MYTH:
There is no contemporary historical record of any kind of Jesus!! No written Roman, Greek or Jewish sources from this time (apart from the gospels) know of any historical Jesus or Christ. The name “Christ” is mentioned in some later texts (Tacitus, Suetonius Pliny d.y.) but then merely as the name of the idol of the Christians’ worship (Read what these sources really say here). We don’t even know who the writers of the Gospels were, and don’t have the original manuscripts themselves either. We just have later copies of copies of copies of copies … of copies of the assumed lost originals. And with each copy the copyist usually felt free to alter details or rewrite whole parts of the manuscript. (We usually don’t trust dubious anonymous sources as evidence for anything, do we?)
HARD TRUTH MY FRIENDS
December 22, 2008 at 10:49 am
WHY JESUS NEVER EXISTED
Jesus Christ did not exist. If he did there is no acceptable evidence for it. And if there is acceptable evidence then it is too flimsy to justify taking Jesus seriously as a god or wizard. The nearest we get to evidence for Jesus having lived is the anonymously authored and partisan four gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John for everything else is far more, or could be, hearsay than what they are.
If Jesus had really been a new messenger from God, had he really been the Son of God, some writings of his would have been left behind. He left nothing at all. There are no writings attributed to Jesus. There are no archaeological artefacts. It is impossible to believe that God would have done nothing to make sure that some direct evidence to Jesus existed. All we have is hearsay. Hearsay isn’t always wrong but it is not very convincing. God didn’t ensure that any direct evidence for Jesus survived therefore God doesn’t care if we doubt or even disbelieve the existence of Jesus.
What is even more incredible and impossible to explain is this. Why did everybody forge writings and traditions in the name of the apostles and some other New Testament characters, but not Jesus himself? Even Gnostics never attributed any of their books to Jesus but to his apostles or some other disciple of Jesus. And Gnostics often believed that Jesus was a vision seeming to be a man not a man and sought direct revelation from him. Yet they came up with no book claiming to be the direct word of Jesus or even to be something that Jesus had written. If Gnostic and orthodox Christians believed in Jesus as someone who had been on earth, they certainly did not believe that there was any sensible reason for thinking he had been. They had their reasons yes. But these reasons had nothing to do with the kind of evidence a detective or historian or archaeologist would consider.
The risen Jesus was a hoax. Yet this Jesus was similar in all respects as regards teaching and sobriety and things you might not expect somebody to make up to the Jesus who the gospels say ministered and died.
December 22, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Exterminatus Extremis awaits you now on Earth and then eternally in hell, unholy blasphemer if you don’t repent NOW! Woe, woe, woe to you unholy luciferian antichristian warlock!!! How you dared perform this unholy denial of God’s Very Real Holy Existence! Without God you would never ever exist because God sustains whole His creation including you!!! You are now in grave unrepentant sin!!! If you will die now without repentance even in last tiny moment of your life, you go to hell directly!
“With the cleanser, let’s cleanse the promiscuituous!
-LET’S THEY WILL BE CLEANSED!”
“With the purifier, let’s purify the blasphemous!
-LET’S THEY WILL BE PURIFIED!”
“With the cleaner, let’s clean the hereticous!
-LET’S THEY WILL BE CLEANED!”
“With the purger, let’s purge the traitorous!
-LET’S THEY WILL BE PURGED!”
With the clearer, let’s clear the treacherous!
-LET’S THEY WILL BE CLEARED!”
December 22, 2008 at 6:09 pm
YOU ARE GOING TO NARKH TDT AND THATS A BRAMHINS CURSE BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO RESPECT FOR OTHER HOLY RELIGIONS.
December 22, 2008 at 6:16 pm
How you blasphemous liar dared to call Jesus-God by completely alien to Him; logically unapplicable to Him; and wholly false name of satan/wizard akin to Lucifer, Harry Potter, Anton Shandor la Vey and Alisteir Crowley, while Jesus is |God and only God|‽‽‽ You are now in grave unrepentant sin against Holy Trinity, that cannot be forgiven in earthly and eternal life until repented as soon as possible!!! You dumb fool, you are seling your soul for eternity to hell, where you will burn eternally!!! REPENT, WHILE STILL YOU CAN AND BECAME CATHOLIC, TO ATONE FOR YOUR EVIL SINS, otherwise you will be tormented in hell eternally for your eternally constant stubborness!!! You exceeded all boundaries in your satanism!!! What a scandal!!!
December 22, 2008 at 6:31 pm
I spit on your unholy narkh/nargrast, your unholy blasphemies, your unholy Shiva/Sivar your unholy indian kilrathi luciferian religions made by unholy beast 666! Most Holy Cross and all seven Sacraments of Catholic Church such as:
Most Holy Baptism
Most Holy Confirmation
Most Holy Eucharist
Most Holy Healing
Most Holy Penance and Reconciliation
Most Holy Anointing of the Sick
Most Holy Vocation
Most Holy Orders
Most Holy Matrimony
are shielding me from your black magic witchraft curses!
Let’s all punishments announced by Catholic Saint Louise Starr Tomkiel: http : / / www . giftstor . org / tomkiel05fst will befall you NOW!!!
Jesus is victorious!!! He on Holy Cross destroyed all powers and principalities of your cat faith!!! Try to blaspheme further, and you will have to do with His Mighty Anger and Catholic Inquisition!!! Remember what Inquisition did in Spain with heretics, fear and surprise awaits you!!!
December 22, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Sancte Michael Archangele,
defende nos in proelio.
contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Imperet illi Deus, supplices deprecamur:
tuque, Princeps militiae caelestis,
Satanam aliosque spiritus malignos,
qui ad perditionem animarum pervagantur in mundo,
divina virtute, in infernum detrude.
Amen.
aint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle;
be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray:
and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host,
by the power of God,
cast (thrust) into hell Satan and all (other) evil spirits
who wander through the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen
December 25, 2008 at 6:50 am
see this
Christianity and the Vedic Teachings Within It
Posted by truecongresspolitics on December 12, 2008
By Stephen Knapp
http://truecongresspolitics.wordpress.com/2008/12/12/christianity-and-the-vedic-teachings-within-it/
December 26, 2008 at 2:37 am
Vedists are thieves. They stolen Adamic-Christian heritage to their occult machinations. Vey and Crowley did exactly the same. They stolen inverted Peter’s Cross.
December 26, 2008 at 9:48 am
READ THE TEXT TDT:BIBLE DENIGRATES WOMEN, VEDAS ELEVATE THEM
1. DENIGRATION OF WOMEN IN BIBLE
(i) Biblical God curses all women
The women have been belittled, humiliated and denigrated by the
following verse of the Holy Bible, in which Biblical God has cursed
all women that He will multiply their sorrow and they will endure
pain of child-birth and that their husbands shall rule over them
because of their no fault but that of their first grandmother Eve
eating the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. Will any educated
woman believe in and approve of being ruled by her husband as
declared by Biblical God in Bible ? Here is the relevant verse :
43. “16. Unto the woman he (God) said, 1 will greatly multiply thy
sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;
and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”
- Genesis, 3/16
That is why in nineteenth century some Christian priests opposed the
use of anesthetics at the time of child-birth on the plea that it
would amount to the transgression of the so called divine will under
which woman must endure pain of child-birth. It was only when Queen
Victoria had anestheties at the time of her child-birth, that it was
allowed to be used commonly. In this connection Bertrand Russell,
the renowned philosopher, who was awarded the Nobel Prize for
literature in 1950, writes :
“One occasion for the logical intervention to prevent the mitigation
of human suffering was the discovery of anaesthetics. Simpson in 1847
recommended their use in child birth, and was immediately reminded by
the clergy that God said to Eve (Bible, Genesis, III: 16) : `In
sorrow shalt thou bring forth children.’”
- Bertrand Russell
Christian priests condemn birth control. In their opinion, women are
machines to produce more and more children to increase the population
of their co-religionists. Bertrand Russell states :
“Most of clergymen condemn birth control None of them condemns the
brutality of a husband who causes his wife to die of too frequent
pregnancies. I knew a fashionable clergyman whose wife had nine
children in nine years. The doctors told him that if she had another
she would die. Next year she had another and died. No one
condemned,. he retained his benefice and married again.”48
- Bertrand Russell
“The second century St. Clement of Alexandria wrote :
Every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a
woman.”49
- St Clement
Lutherans at Wittenberg debated whether women were really human
beings at all.50
(ii) Woman was created for man, not man for woman
The New Testament states that originally man did not spring from
woman, but woman was made out of man, and that woman was not created
for woman’s sake, but for the sake of man.
44. “8. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.”
- I Corinthians, 11/8
45. “9. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for
the man.”
- I Corinthians, 11/9
In 1977, Pope Paul VI explained :
“Women were barred from the priesthood because our Lord was a man.”51
- Pope Paul VI
(iii) Christ is the head of man, but not of woman
The New Testament states that the head of every man is Christ, but he
is not the head of woman. She is headed by man, not Christ. It
indicates that woman does not enjoy equal status according to Holy
Bible. Here is the relevant text :
46. “3. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is
Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ
is God.”
- I Corinthians, 11/3
(iv) Women must remain under domination of men
The New Testament ordains women to remain under domination of men.
They should not teach, nor usurp authority over men, but to remain in
silence with all subjection. Read the following five verses :
47. “11. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.”
- I Timothy, 2/11
48. “12. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority
over the man, but to he in silence.”
- I Timothy, 2/12
49. “13. For Adam was First formed, then Eve.”
- I Timothy, 2/13
50. “14. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was
in the transgression.”
- I Timothy, 2/14
51. “24. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the
wives be to their own husbands in every thing.”
- Ephesians, 5/24
When Christian monks in the fourth century hacked the great scholar
Hypatia to death with oyster shells, St. Cyril explained that it was
because she was an iniquitous (wicked) female who had presumed,
against God’s commandments, to teach men.52
Elizabeth Cady Stanton observes :
“I know of no other book (barring the Bible) that so fully teaches
the subjection and degradation of woman.”
- Elizabeth Cady Stanton
(v) Submission of wives to husbands
Again the New Testament declares that God considers it as fit and
proper that wives should submit themselves to their own husbands.
Here is the text :
52. “18. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own Husbands, as it is
fit in the Lord.”
- Colossians, 3/18
It is a matter of agony and amazement that the State has played the
role of agent and slave of the Church in subjugation of woman. In
this connection Ms Matilda Joslyn Gage, an American writer, states :
“The State, agent and slave of the Church, has so long united with it
in suppression of woman’s intelligence, has so long preached of power
to man alone, that it has created an inherited tendency, an inborn
line of thought toward repression.”53
- Matilda Joslyn Gage
Dante (1265-1321), the greatest poet of Italy, continuously fought
against the political aggression of the Papacy. In this connection,
John Bond, the noted American journalist, writes
“The great poet Dante, a thoroughly orthodox Catholic, consistently
fought against the political aggression and against the wild claims
of the Papacy. Consequently he was driven into perpetual exile and
condemned to `be burnt until dead’ in case of capture. His famous
book exposing the falsity of the Papal pretences in the forum of
reason and history was ordered burned by the public hangman. A Roman
cardinal of that day issued an order to open Dante k tomb and have
the body tied to the stake and given to the flames as that of a
heretic. The order was never executed because the friends of the
great poet interfered.”54
- John Bond
(vi) Women not permitted to speak in Churches
According to law laid down in the New Testament, women are not
permitted to speak in Churches. If they want to learn any thing,
they may ask their husbands at home, for it is a matter of shame for
women to speak in the Church. Here is the Biblical text in this
connection :
53. “34. Let your women keep silence in the churches; for it is not
permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under
obedience, as also saith the law.”
- I Corinthians 14/34
54. “35. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their
husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the
church.”
- I Corinthians. 14/35
Will the educated women believe in and approve of the above text ? If
not, let them raise voice emphatically.
The women in England were not permitted to read the Holy Bible for a
long time. In this connection Ms Matilda Joslyn Gage writes :
“For a long period after the reformation, English women were not
permitted to read the Bible, a statute of the Eighth Henry
prohibiting `women and others of low degree’ from its use.”55
- Matilda Joslyn Gage
(vii) Woman, not man, must cover her head during prayer
The New Testament admonishes men not to cover their heads while
praying, but for women the admonition is different. They should
cover their heads during prayer. The Holy Bible further ordains that
if a woman does not cover her head during prayer, she dishonours her
head and looks as if she is shaven. The next Biblical command for a
woman is more strict. It says that if a woman does not cover her
head, while praying, let her be shorn. But if she feels ashamed to
be shorn or shaven, then let her cover her head. Let us read the
following three verses in this matter :
55. “4. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered,
dishonoureth his head.”
- I Corinthians, 11/4
56. “5. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head
uncovered dishonoureth her head; for that is even all one as if she
were shaven.”
- I Corinthians, 11/5
57. “6. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn; but
if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be
covered.”
- I Corinthians, 11/6
(viii) Test for unfaithful wife by making her drink bitter water
Holy Bible prescribes test for faithless wife as under : “If a wife
is suspected of faithlessness by her husband, she will be brought
before the priest. The priest will put her to test by making her
drink water, which causes curse. If the woman is defiled and has
committed the sin of having sexual intercourse with the man other
than her husband, the water will make her belly swell and her thigh
shall rot.” Here is the text :
58. “20. But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy
husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee
beside thine husband;”
- Numbers 5/20
59. “21. Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of
cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The Lord make thee
a curse and an oath among thy people, when the Lord doth make thy
thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;”
- Numbers, 5/21
60. “22. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy
bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot; And the
woman shall say, Amen, amen.”
- Numbers, 5/22
61. “27. And when he bath made her to drink the water, then it shall
come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against
her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into
her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh
shall rot; and the woman shall be a curse among her people.”
- Numbers, 5/27
Why did Biblical God not institute similar test for unfaithful
husband ? The above four verses indicate the partiality of Biblical
God and injustice to women. When will the women awaken from sound
slumber and raise their strong protest against their denigration and
humiliation in the name of religion ?
(ix) Does woman have a soul ?
Not only the Church, but also the State denied that woman possesses a
soul. Matilda Joslyn Gage writes :
“As early as the sixth century a council at Macon (585) fifty-nine
bishops taking part, devoted its time to a discussion of this
question, `Does woman possess a soul ?’…… Until time of Peter the
Great, women were not recognized as human beings in that great
division of Christendom known as the Greek church, the census of that
empire counting only males, or so many `souls’ -no woman named.
Traces of this old belief have not been found wanting in our own
country within the century. As late as the Woman’s Rights Convention
in Philadelphia, 1854, an objector in the audience cried out : `Let
women first prove they have souls; both the Church and the State deny
it.’ “56
- Matilda Joslyn Gage
(x) Biblical law of divorce humiliates woman
Biblical law of divorce renders sheer injustice and atrocity to a
woman. According to Holy Bible, if a husband is displeased with his
wife, he can divorce her instantly, simply by giving a letter of
divorcement in her hand and asking her to get out of his house. But
Holy Bible does not authorise a wife to divorce her husband. The
Holy Bible renders another injustice to a woman by making a law that
if the divorced wife becomes another man’s wife, and if he too hates
her and divorces her in the same manner, she cannot go back to her
former husband, because she is defiled. The Holy Bible emphatically
states that such re-marriage of twice-divorced wife with previous
husband is abominable before God, and the land where such re-marriage
takes place commits sin. Read the following four verses in this
connection :
62. “1. When a man bath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to
pass that she rind no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some
uncleanness in her; then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and
give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.”
- Deuteronomy, 24/1
63. “2. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be
another man’s wife.”
- Deuteronomy, 24/2
64. “3. And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of
divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his
house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;”
- Deuteronomy, 24/3
65. “4. Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her
again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is
abomination before the Lord; and thou shalt not cause the land to
sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”
- Deuteronomy, 24/4
(xi) Could a Christian husband release himself from marriage bond by
killing his wife ?
Ms. Matilda Joslyn Gage, one of the renowned researchers of America,
authoritatively answers the above question in affirmative. She
states :
“An examination of history proves that in Christian Russia as in
Christian England the husband could release himself from the marriage
bond by killing his wife, over whom under Christian law he had power
of life and death. Her children, as to-day in Christian England and
America, are not under her control; she is to bear children but not
to educate them, for as under Catholic and Protestant Christianity,
women are looked upon as a lower order of beings, of an unclean
nature.”57
- Matilda Joslyn Gage
George W. Foote opines :
“It will yet be the proud boast of woman that she never contributed a
line to the Bible.”58
- George W. Foote
Helen Gardner states :
“Women are indebted today for their emancipation from a position of
hopeless degradation, not to their religion nor to Jehovah, but to
the justice and honor of the men who have defied his commands. That
she does not crouch today where St. Paul tried to bind her, she owes
to the men who are grand and brave enough to ignore St. Paul, and
rise superior to his God.”59
- Helen Gardner
2. ELEVATION OF WOMEN IN VEDAS
Despite antiquity of Vedas, they preach the most modern and the most
progressive thoughts. Woman enjoys high position at home as well as
society according to Vedas. Both man and woman enjoy equal rights.
For husband and wife, Vedas make mention of one word dmpaita which
means two masters of one house. Not only husband, but also his wife
is equal owner of the house. Both enjoy the same prestige, power and
position. None is subordinate to the other. To say that wife is
servant or slave to husband is not okayed by Vedas. The performance
of yajna is considered to be complete only when both husband and wife
sit together. Woman enjoys the same right as man, to study and
preach the sublime philosophy of Vedas.
According to Vedic religion, marriage is a union of two souls
enjoying constant peace and prosperity at home. It entitles woman to
enjoy permanent safety, security, serenity and sovereignty at home.
Marriage is not a temporary social contract which can be broken at
any time at the whim and caprice of either party. In accordance with
Vedic religion, marriage ensures woman to be the wife and mistress at
the house for full span of life of a hundred years. When Aryan bride-
groom brings his newly-wedded bride to his house, he addresses her at
the time of her first entrance in her house as under
pa`bauQyasva saubauQaa bauQyamaanaa dIGaa-yautvaaya SataSaardaya |
gaRhana\ gacC gaRhpatnaI yaqaasaao dIGa-M ta Aayau: saivataa
kRxNaaotau ||
à Aqava-vaod 14ó2ó75
Remain awake
As intelligent and alert woman
Enjoying full life of a hundred years.
Enter the house as its ideal mistress,
May the Creator bestow on thee
Long life.
– Atharva Veda 14/2/75
Wedding ceremonies performed in accordance with Vedic religion bind
the bride and bride-groom in spiritual ties of love and liberty,
equality and integrity, purity and piety. They become one soul
living in two bodies. Nuptial relations guaranteed by Vedic religion
are based on spiritualism rather than materialism, love rather than
lust. The following mantra in which bride-groom addresses his bride
at the time of wedding, categorically illustrates the inseparable
union between the two :
Amaao#hmaisma saa tvaM saamaahmasmyaRk\x tvaM VaOrhM paRiqavaI tvama\
|
taaivah saM Bavaava pa`jaamaa janayaavahO |
à Aqava-vaod 14ó2ó71
I am what thou art
Thou art what I am,
I am the psalm
And thou art the verse,
I am the heaven
And thou art the earth,
May we live together
To produce progeny.
– Atharva Veda 14/2/71
The hand that rocks the cradle, can rock the entire nation. History
is a witness that fall of huge empires has been, to a great extent,
due to degradation of women-folk. The first inspiring teacher of man
is his mother who shapes his future and makes his destiny. Nation is
made of individuals who owe their rise to the teachings of their
mothers. Hence progress of nation depends upon the development of
women. They are the truest builders of the nation. That is why an
Aryan mother announces with pride and privilege in the following
mantra of Rig Veda that she is glory of her nation, prop of her
society and pillar of her community
AhM koxtaurhM maUQaa-hmauga`a ivavaacanaI |
mamaodnau ÚtauM paita: saohanaayaa {paacarota\ ||
à Pgvaod 10ó159ó2
I am the banner
I am the head
I possess excellent eloquence;
My husband co-operates with me
And follows my will.
– Rig Veda 10/159/2
That is why Shri Manu, the first apostle of equality, liberty and
fraternity in the world, held the women in high esteem. According to
him woman enjoys loftier position than that enjoyed by man. It is
woman who elevates and exalts the nation. He speaks of honoured and
exalted status of woman in his following utterance :
ya~a naaya-stau paUjyantao rmantao ta~a dovataa: |
à manau
The enlightened souls enjoy life with ecstasy
Where women are honoured.
– Manu
December 26, 2008 at 7:35 pm
i have finally come to an conclusion about christianity it is not a religion at all,it is worse than a wolf,it engulfed beautiful rome destroyed a once civilized culture,burnt down all greek litretures enslaved europe ,now going to enslave the world,so many crusades ,so many bloodsheds,how cunning they created constantinople, Christianity has done great disservice to people of italy,they dont evevn have any moral right to speak about vedas.what happened to poor incas,aztecs,these cruel guys will never stop,only god has to save the rest of the guys from these evil monsters who pretend they dont know anything
December 26, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Christianity, Islam and 1000 years of holy bloodshed
Sunday Herald, The, Sep 10, 2006 by George Rosie
E-MAILPRINTLINK
GOD’S WAR: A NEW HISTORY OF THE CRUSADES BY CHRISTOPHER TYERMAN (ALLEN LANE, GBP30)
HERE is how Christopher Tyerman defines the wars that Europe waged against Islam for more than 400 years. “The crusades were wars justified by faith, ” he writes, “conducted against real or imagined enemies defined by religious and political elites as perceived threats to the Christian faithful.
The religious beliefs crucial to such warfare placed enormous significance on imagined awesome but reassuring supernatural forces – ” Its depressing relevance makes Tyerman’s huge new book fascinating reading. More than 1000 years after the first crusade, God is still out there on the battlefield. If you have Him on your side (as everyone thinks they do) then any killing is sanctified.
Which is what those young Muslims thought when they flew those jets into the World Trade Centre in 2001. And what the European crusaders decided after they’d battered their way into Jerusalem in July 1099 and butchered just about every Muslim and Jew in the city. God alone knows how many people have been killed in His name.
Modern Muslims still see the crusades as naked European aggression but they forget (or ignore) the fact that Christianity predates Islam by more than 600 years and for much of that time Jerusalem was one of the “patriarch” cities of the Christian church.
That changed in the seventh century when Muslim invaders swept through the Middle East and North Africa and Christianity’s holy land became a province of Islam.
Tyerman goes to some lengths in explaining just why Pope Urban II unleashed the warriors of western Europe. He argues that by the 11th century Christianity was feeling seriously threatened by Muslims (from the south and east) and by Vikings (from the north). Something had to be done to revive flagging morale, rebuild defences and reclaim “holy” lands. The pontiff is reputed to have triggered the crusades by a sermon he preached at Clermont in France in November, 1095. In fact, Urban’s sermon was poorly attended and never recorded.
Whatever he said, it certainly played into the fears and ambitions of Europe’s warrior elites. Within months huge war bands were being assembled and by the end of 1096 the first crusade was heading for Jerusalem (pausing only to slaughter and rob Europe’s Jews). Tyerman draws an interesting parallel to a 20th century war: “1096 was the 1914 of the middle ages.”
That long march was a grim business.
The horrors are well recorded. “Goats, sheep, even dogs were pressed into service as pack animals, ” Tyerman writes, “their backs soon lacerated with sores, while knights rode cows or walked – Some recalled hundreds dying, mainly of thirst;
the true figure may have been thousands.”
By the time the crusaders finally cracked open the walls of Jerusalem in July 1099 they were in no mood to forgive. Within hours the city was a charnel house, the streets running with blood (mostly Muslim and Jewish). Ironically, perhaps, Pope Urban II died before hearing that Jerusalem was back in Christian hands.
And there it stayed as a key part of a string of “crusader states” that stretched along the east coast of the Mediterranean from Egypt up to Anatolia. It’s possible to argue that those states were Europe’s first colonies outwith Europe. One way or another, the crusades were among the defining events of the last millennium.
But the situation couldn’t last. Although it took Muslims almost 100 years to get their act together, when they did their armies – under a brilliant Kurd called Saladin – rapidly reduced the crusader states to a rump. Which, in turn prompted yet another crusade. The bloody business of invasion and counter-invasion lasted into the late 15th century when the Turkish Ottomans finally ousted Christian power from the east end of the Mediterranean by toppling the Byzantines of Constantinople.
As Tyerman’s book reminds us, the crusades were a complex series of wars that lasted for hundreds of years and involved much of the known world. Crusaders went wherever there were Muslims, heathens or Christian “apostates” to be killed or converted. Spain, North Africa, the Balkans, Russia, Sicily, Sardinia, even southern France: they all felt the edge of the crusaders’ battle axe.
This is the best account of the crusading centuries to appear for many years.
It’s a more-than-worthy successor to Sir Steven Runciman’s early 1950s classic, History Of The Crusades. In just under 1000 pages Christopher Tyerman has delivered a fine piece of fact-packed, closely argued work on that “clash of civilisations”, echoes of which continue to roll across the planet.
December 28, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Women are below men, because before original sin Adam had more built-in physical/anatomical functionalities of body than Eve, such as light emission properties, organs, additional thickenings covering them placed on corpus, etc… These functionalities superior to current humans were almost completely lost on both male and female sides after original sin, and will be restored after End Times. We as remnant of these lost functionalities have for example intestinal appendix.
December 29, 2008 at 9:56 am
well, every society is of hypocrits where women doesnt get honour.
December 29, 2008 at 10:06 am
PLEASE CHECK THIS VENKAT:http://www.tamilnation.org/heritage/hindutimeline.htm.
December 29, 2008 at 10:18 am
today christianity is diverted to wrong paths by greed and its people.
December 31, 2008 at 5:00 pm
SANATAN DHARM AND PROSPER:
(65) The true path to God and Sanatan Dharm.
What is Sanatan Dharm?
God and His path of attainment are both eternal
The definition of bhakti (devotion)
The eternal significance of bhakti
(Continue to page two)
The forms of God and Their Divine abodes
Kinds of Divine liberation
——————————————————————————–
What is Sanatan Dharm?
The religion which eternally exists in God, which is revealed by God, which describes the names, forms, virtues and the abodes of God, and which reveals the true path of God realization for all the souls is called Sanatan Dharm, the universal religion for the whole world.
The word dharm is formed from the root word dhryan (dhryan dharne); it means such actions and such spiritual or religious practices that finally result in all-good for a soul. A general description of dharm is:
It means that such actions, thoughts and practices that promote physical and mental happiness in the world (abhyudaya) and ensure God realization (nishreyas) in the end, are called dharm.
There are two kinds of dharmas: (a) Apar dharm, or varnashram dharm, or seemit dharm, or general dharm, and (b) par dharm or bhagwat dharm.
(a) Apar dharm, or varnashram dharm, or seemit dharm, or general dharm. The word dharm means the religious practices and thoughts that are aimed to fulfill a pious goal in life. Accordingly the apar or varnashram dharm is the religious discipline and injunctions of do’s and don’ts that are explained in the scriptures for uplifting the sattvic qualities of a human being in general. Varnashram word refers to all kinds and classes of people of this world living various orders of life (like a family man, a priest, a monk or a sanyasi), and apar word means ‘secondary’ or ‘general’ or ‘preliminary’ because it is not the absolute or prime dharm, it is the preliminary dharm for everyone in the world.
The discipline and rules of apar dharm vary according to the state of the spiritual consciousness of a person, and its rigidness also varies from age to age, that is, from satyug to kaliyug. In short you can understand that (for the existing age) all kinds of good deeds and philanthropic works that are beneficial to the society, and sincere observance of the religious discipline of the ‘order of life’ (religious student, family man, or a renounced person) you are following, come in this category, provided, that they are done with sattvic motivation. Sattvic motivation means having faith in God and then doing all the good karmas only to please God and not for any kind of personal gain. Even if you think of receiving compliments for your good karmas or the religious practices which you observe, it will not be classified as sattvic, it will become rajas, because you desired for the compliments and you have received them. Thus you have already availed the outcome of your so-called good deeds. According to the Gita:
There is hardly any further good outcome of such good looking karmas in the next lifetime.
So, apar dharm means good karmas with sattvic motivation where a person is devoted to God in a conventional manner, which means a general faith in all the forms of God. Such good karmas pacify the mind of the doer in the existing life, and in the next lifetime they create a good destiny which is called ‘abhyudaya’ that brings physical and mental well-being in a person’s life.
(b) Par dharm or bhagwat dharm. This is the main dharm which brings the absolute good (the nishreyas) of a soul, and the absolute good of a soul is only God realization which happens through the direct devotion to God in His personal form. It is called bhakti. It gives both, peace and happiness in life as well as God realization. Apar dharm is the general dharm for all and is only a preliminary dharm, which is like the preparatory practice for entering into bhakti for those who cannot accept it in their life right away. Bhakti is above all the religious formalities, rituals and intellectual practices of meditation. In one sentence you can say that bhakti is the true ‘love’ for your soul-beloved God. It could be observed by any person of the world. It is universal; it is for every age; it is said and revealed by God Himself; and it is sanatan which means eternal. Thus, the dharm which is based on such bhakti, which is eternally established in bhakti, and which establishes bhakti for God as a universal religion of the world, is called Sanatan Dharm.
God is: “dharmadhishthan.” It means that the Sanatan (eternal) Dharm is established in God and resides in God as a Divine power. It is revealed by God through Brahma before the human civilization and is represented through the Upnishads and the Puranas.
God and His path of attainment are both eternal.
Material beings are eternally under the bondage of maya and are ignorant. So the Divine matters are beyond the reach of human mind. It is thus quite obvious that a material mind can never find a way to approach the Divine. It cannot even know the nature of the Divine power on its own. It is thus only God Who Himself reveals His knowledge to the human beings. It is seen in the world that nature produces milk in the bosom of a woman before the birth of a child as the child may need it immediately on birth. So, even before the birth of human beings on this earth planet, God produces the knowledge of His attainment through the Upnishads, and the Puranas.
These scriptures reveal the form of God, personality of God, nature of God, greatness of God, Graciousness of God, path to God and also the procedure of the path. This path is called bhakti or divine-love-consciousness. Everything that relates to God is eternal because God is eternal. Thus, all the knowledges of the Upnishads and the Puranas along with the path of bhakti are eternal. Bhakti and the Grace of God are very closely related to each other.
The definition of bhakti (devotion).
Bhakti is the submission of the deep loving feelings of a devotee’s heart for his beloved God where all of his personal requisites are merged into his Divine beloved’s overwhelming Grace which He imparts for His loving devotee. This loving submission has been described in the scriptures and in the writings of the acharyas and Saints in many ways.
The Gita uses the terms surrender and single-mindedness.
These are the famous verses of the Gita that tell about surrendering all the social and religious (apar dharm) commitments at the lotus feet of Krishn and then wholeheartedly and single-mindedly worshipping Him with faith and confidence.
The Bhagwatam stresses on the selflessness of a devotee (bhakt) of Krishn and tells that the leela Bliss of Krishn is so deep, profound and limitlessly charming that even God Shiv’s heart was entangled in its fascination and He always wandered in Braj absorbed in the love of Krishn. So the Bhagwatam advises the souls, to drink the nectar of the leela Bliss of Krishn and selflessly desire for His vision and the Divine love.
The Ramayan emphasizes on the sincere humbleness of a devotee. Goswami Tulsidas says,
O my supreme beloved Bhagwan Ram, the crown jewel of the dynasty of King Raghu! I am the most fallen and humble soul of this world, and You are the most kind friend of all such souls. Your Graciousness has no compare. So, please lift me up from this unlimited cosmic ocean and make me Your own forever.” Selfless devotion to God with such feelings of devotional humbleness are constantly expressed in the Ramayan and also in the Vinay Patrika.
Jagadguru Nimbarkacharya introduced a method of devotional remembrance and meditation called ashtyam seva, which means that a selfless devotee should remember the leelas of Radha Krishn, whatever They normally do since the early morning when They get up from the bed and till the night when They go to sleep. In this way, meditating upon Their leelas, the devotee should feed and decorate Radha Krishn accordingly. (Ashtyam literally means the 24 hours.) This is just a procedure of meditation where a devotee develops his longing to see the Divine leelas of Radha Krishn and to be in Their Divine service forever in Vrindaban or Golok.
Jagadguru Ramanujacharya used a word prapatti to express the feelings of a devotee who very humbly surrenders his heart, mind and soul at the lotus feet of his loving God and earnestly desires for His Divine vision.
Vallabhacharya defined his path of devotion as the pushti marg. Pushti means the loving Graciousness of Krishn which fosters the devotional feelings of a selfless devotee, and marg means the path. So pushti marg means the path of devotion to Krishn where a devotee, depending upon the Graciousness of Krishn, humbly surrenders and dedicates his whole being for the service of Krishn.
Chaitanya Mahaprabhuji simplified the procedure of sadhana (devotional) bhakti for the devotees and said that the remembrance of Krishn is easily and most effectively done through the chanting of His name and the leelas, and the desire of His meeting is quickly deepened when you develop the feeling of longing for Him in your heart. He says in the Shikchashtak:
It means that a devotee should be humble, forgiving, forbearing, respecting to the devotional feelings of others but not desiring for any personal compliments for himself. With such a humble heart, which is yearning for the love and the vision of his beloved Krishn, the devotee should sing and chant the leelas and the names of Krishn.
These are all the descriptions and the definitions of the devotional bhakti (sadhana bhakti) as to how it should be observed in the practical life.
The eternal significance of bhakti.
As mentioned above, bhakti is eternal. It means that it is the eternally existing path to attain God. God is one, so the path of His attainment is also one, and thus, the same path of bhakti ensures the attainment of any of the forms of God. The path of bhakti is prevalent in every brahmand of this entire universe and it is for all the souls of this universe. It remains the same in all the four yugas (satyug, treta, dwapar and kaliyug) and, as it is directly related to soul and God, it is above caste, creed, sect and nationality. It can be adopted by any person of any nation of this world, because it is gifted by the supreme God Himself for the benefit of the humankind; and again, there are no physical requirements in doing bhakti. There are no meditation postures to adopt, no concentration techniques to follow and no rituals to observe. So it can be done by anyone, young, old or sick, and at any time in twenty-four hours, because bhakti is the pure love of your heart that longs to meet the Divine beloved of your soul in this very lifetime. The philosophy of bhakti is also described in Narad Bhakti Sutra and Shandilya Bhakti Sutra.
Karm-yog and gyan-yog.
Sattvic good karmas on their own only purify the heart to some extent; but if the doer of good karmas starts doing bhakti, his actions are classified as karm yog, and then, on the perfection of bhakti, he receives God realization. Literally the word yog means ‘the unity.’ Thus, the (Divine) uniting factor, bhakti, when it is predominantly added to the sattvic good karmas, it is then called “karm yog.” Similarly, when bhakti is predominantly added to the practice of gyan (or yog), it is called gyan yog. So, now we know that all kinds of good karmas and all kinds of yog and gyan-related practices are only sattvic, but when they are predominated with bhakti, they become the means of God realization, because bhakti unfolds the field of God’s Grace.
(Continue to page two)
The forms of God and Their Divine abodes
Kinds of Divine liberation
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(64) The Puranas, the Itihas and the avataras (descensions) of God.
-Present-
(65) The true path to God and Sanatan Dharm.
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(66) The philosophy of the descension (avatar) of God,
and Bhagwan Ram and Krishn.
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December 31, 2008 at 7:26 pm
SA(NAT)AN DHARM = “satan firm” = Union Aerospace Corporation = UAC = $$$ = 666 = BEAST = BrusselsElectronicalAccountingSurveyingTerminal
The untrusted teleporter path to devil and sa(na)tan dharm = “satan firm” = Union Aerospace Corporation = UAC = $$$ = 666 = BEAST = BrusselsElectronicalAccountingSurveyingTerminal is false and hopeless, see http : / / en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Union_Aerospace_Corporation because devils are harming back always.
What is Sa(na)tan Dharm?
It is devil driven corporation known too as Union Aerospace Corporation that provides its teleporter paths of attainment directly to hell, that are both uneternal and unholy.
The definition of bhakti (as defined in UAC’s evilution and plutonia experiments) – see FINAL DOOM:
Bhakti means transforming into hellish imps.
The eternal significance of bhakti (as defined in UAC’s evilution and plutonia experiments) – see FINAL DOOM:
Transformation into imps brings eternal damnation in hell to transformees.
The evil forms of devils and their devious abodes are manifested through various kinds of devious libelous liberal teleporting experiments manifested in freeform UAC experimentation beyond reasons of humanity good, even by risking invasion from hell 0 see HELL ON EARTH.
December 31, 2008 at 7:46 pm
You all who are worshipping goat as ram, you are adoring the wolf under sheep name, and thus you all unrepentant sinners you are worshipping “Icon of Sin”.
December 31, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Unholy hellish corporation SA(NA)TAN DHARM = “satan firm” = Union Aerospace Corporation = UAC = $$$ = 666 = BEAST = BrusselsElectronicalAccountingSurveyingTerminal is too responsible for Slipgate Experiment made after buying SD/UAC by clandestine one world government, after previous problematic devilution and plutonia experiments, resulting in hellish “Operation Counterstrike” against Earth – see QUAKE. Remember! SD/UAC is evil masonic organization driven by hell directly, do not worship them at any cost, or you all will be sold to hell for whole neverending eternity!
January 1, 2009 at 3:07 am
Look here:
http : / / toastytech . com / dooma / garden2 . gif – Yangshuo mountains/caverns in buddhist/hinduist China
http : / / toastytech . com / dooma / sky1 . gif – SA(NA)TAN DHARM/Union Aerospace Corporation base placed in the same Yangshuo place.
http : / / en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Yangshuo – the same “sugar loaf” Yangshuo mountains.
You SA(NA)TAN DHARM/Union Aerospace Corporation and your flirting with hell is exposed and debunked. Now all know who you are, satanic scientologists.
January 1, 2009 at 1:24 pm
what more can we expect from a christian?the same bashing techniques to denigrate other religions.your god is the only true god,other majority people of the world in china and india are worshipping satanic gods what a liberal mind,what patience,what kindness only a true christian like you could express like this ,sweet words,yes go on do crusades,convert people in these countries,will you become satisfied then???
January 1, 2009 at 6:04 pm
I am only proofing that Louise Starr Tomkiel is fully allright with her supernatural revelations from True God: http : / / www . giftstor . org / tomkiel05fst
“My Church and every country will then be ruled by One World Order, Freemasons, Nazis, Communists all posing as ‘good for you’ leaders. Soon their masks will fall and you will see how ugly sin through control or control through sin can really be. But then it will be TOO LATE!”
“Then God spoke, “You are now witnessing the beginning of the cruelty to be imposed upon My people by One World Order, Communism, Nazism, Freemasonry, any one NOT OF ME!”
“Now, mom, all will witness the capabilities of evil men- -Masons, Communists, Islams, Hindu, Buddhists, all One World Order, all totally against God for all deny His existence.”
by finding deeper doomy/quaky debunking proofs, that are in accord with supernatural revelations from God given to Louise Starr Tomkiel, targeted against your bad religion. That all I do because you still disbelieve her. I never ever will deny her, because this would mean blaspheming against TRISPHERICAL CONCENTRICAL ONE TRUE CATHOLIC GOD consisted from Spheres of: God Holy Father, God Holy Son and God Holy Spirit. I am not only denigrating your bad religion, I make something deeper – I’m COMPROMOTATING AND DEBUNKING your satanic goat/baphomet evil occult sect for your good because I want you in Heaven, not in Hell. Doom and Quake shows you what hell looks and how you will be tormented eternally if you do not repent.
I am not any robespierre/voltaire libelous liberalist, I abhor instantly any evil, I never ever will bow before your stinking hindu goats nor be kind to these abhorred hateful/sinful beasts full of worms and chigs. I am true Catholic Christian fanatic ,your goats will never ever receive any sweet words ,yes I go on spiritual crusades, yes, I convert people in these countries, to save them from hell, when this goal will be accomplished and you all become Catholics and Proto-Indo-Europeans at once as was on beginning 6000 years ago, then God and I will become satisfied because you will be saved from eternal hellfires.
January 1, 2009 at 8:45 pm
what a service to humanity,what a great thought,how beautiful of you to care and worry about all the people.
January 1, 2009 at 9:22 pm
I’m fighting all sins against Ten Commandments, in your case especially against breaking First Commandment:
1 I am the Lord your God
You shall have no other gods before Me
You shall not make for yourself an idol
2 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
3 Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
4 Honor your father and mother
5 You shall not kill
6 You shall not commit adultery
7 You shall not steal
8 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
9 You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife
10 You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor
while pushing on you from all sides to save you from hell where you may end only in case of eternally long stubborness and denial against Catholic God because of your eternally long unrepentance. Even eternally long passive ignoring of Catholic God results in hell forever. People ends in hell because even after their death when Catholic God reveals Himself to them, they still infinitely long refuses to know Catholic God, preferring over Him something other and inferior, that is without any value, namely demonic quaky/doomy hellspawn manifesting through Godless earthly idols of all sorts forbidden in First Commandment.
“For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.” Believe Jesus Christ, He is Most Holy Trinity Incarnated and only through Him you can be saved.
Only Catholic Church is true, other non-Catholic faiths are false because they are heresies and schisms against Catholic Church and Catholic Pope, even protestants and orthodoxes broke away from Catholicism as heretics and schismatics -see Exorcisms of Emily Rose.
January 1, 2009 at 9:51 pm
Here is Catholic Christian Revelation from One True Catholic God to whole humanity. If you all will apply this Catholic Revelation to yourself, you all will be saved from hell!
http : / / www . geocities . com / persaecula / GOD-THE-FATHER . htm
After conversion you woill hase benefits from God:
1 – saving from eternal hell
2 – nullification of confusion of tongues
3 – eternal life in heaven
http : / / indo-european . eu / wiki / index . php / Adamic_language
January 2, 2009 at 12:32 am
Catholic God said to Eugenia Ravasio:
QUOTES BEGIN
This is a proof that souls do not know Me any more than you do, not having overcome the idea you have about Me. But now I am giving you this light. Remain in the light and bring it to everybody, and it will be a powerful means both to obtain conversions and to shut, if possible, the gates of hell, for I now repeat My promise, which will last for ever:
ALL THOSE WHO CALL ME BY THE NAME OF FATHER, EVEN IF ONLY ONCE, WILL NOT PERISH, BUT WILL BE SURE OF THEIR ETERNAL LIFE AMONG THE CHOSEN ONES.
Sometimes I look at you and feel compassion for your unhappy state. I sometimes look at you with love, to dispose you to yield to the charms of grace. I spend days, sometimes years, close to some souls to be able to ensure their eternal happiness. They do not know that I am there waiting for them, calling them every moment of the day. However, I never become weary and I still feel joy in remaining close to you, always hoping that you will return to your Father some day and that you will at least offer Me some act of love before you die.
I will give you an example of a soul who is facing sudden death; this soul has always been for me like the Prodigal Son. (Note by Mother Eugenia: “I saw this example as fact, exactly as our Father dictates it and I write it”.)
I lavished benefits on this soul, but he wasted all these benefits, all these gifts that his most loving Father provided for him. More than this, he offended Me gravely. I waited for him, I followed him everywhere, I gave him more favours: health and wealth, that I caused to result from his work, to the point of superfluity. At times My providence granted him further gifts. He therefore had plenty of everything, but he saw it all in the sad light of his vices, and his whole life was a fabric of errors because of habitual mortal sin. But My love never tired. I followed him all the same. I loved him and, most of all, in spite of his rebuffs, I was happy to live patiently close to him, in the hope that maybe one day he would respond to My love and return to Me, His Father and Saviour.
At last his final day is approaching: I have sent him an illness in order to make him come to his senses and return to Me, his Father. Time passes and My poor son – he is 74 – is at his last hour. I am still there, as always: I talk to him with even more kindness than usual. I persevere, I call My chosen ones and ask them to pray for him, so that he may ask for the forgiveness I am offering him… And now, before breathing his last, he opens his eyes, admits his errors and understands how far he has strayed from the true path that leads to Me. He recovers his senses and in a weak voice, which none of those around him can hear, he says: “My God, I can now see how great Your love for me has been and I have offended You continually with such a bad life. I never thought about You, my Father and Saviour. Now You see everything and I beg forgiveness for all this evil which You see in me and which I now discern in my confusion. I love You, my Father and my Saviour!”
He died at that very moment and now here he is, before Me. I judge him with a paternal love: he called Me Father and he is saved. He will spend a period of time in the place of expiation, and after this he will be happy for all eternity. Having taken pleasure during his life in the hope of saving him when he repented, I now rejoice even more, together with My celestial court, at having realized My desire to be his Father for ever.
QUOTES END
Please repent as Catholic God instructed in quotes from His Catholic Revelation to Eugenia Ravasio cited directly above, and return to Catholic God and His Catholic faith, and you are saved from Hell.
January 2, 2009 at 5:17 pm
you should be preaching this in Christian community sites,why here,here you have to discuss about Sanskrit.I am i not correct.
January 2, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Catholic God came to save especially apostates, like you all pagans, not only the faithful Catholic Christians who are already protected from eternal damnation in hell.
Eternal Salvation has following benefits:
One True Omnipotent/Universally Skilled Catholic God instead of many narrowly specialized false idols.
One true Catholic Adamic universal maximal UNCONFUSED Proto-Indo-European language with broadest ever root vocabulary instead of many CONFUSED/BABELIZED/CONFOUNDED dialects with only partial root vocabulary.
January 2, 2009 at 8:04 pm
You Hindus even have distorted mix of stories about Eden and Babel:
“There grew in the centre of the earth the wonderful `world tree,’ or `knowledge tree.’ It was so tall that it reached almost to heaven. It said in its heart, `I shall hold my head in heaven and spread my branches over all the earth, and gather all men together under my shadow, and protect them, and prevent them from separating.’ But priest, to punish the pride of the tree, cut off its branches and cast them down on the earth, when they sprang up as seedling trees, and made differences of belief and speech and customs to prevail on the earth, to disperse men upon its surface.”
This tree is Tree of Knowledge of Bad and Good placed in Eden near Jerusalem, incorrectly mixed with Tower of Babel, while Melchisedek – priest of God that rebuked Babel builders and prophesied God’s punishment, was confused with Catholic God Himself. See Anne Catherine Emmerich’s http : / / www . all-jesus.com / scriptures / bible1-4.htm Confusion of tongues occured at Babel, as Catholic God’s punishment for preventing further human pride=abandonment of Catholic God, which human pride was initiated by original sin of eating fruit from Tree of Knowledge of Bad and Good. God by Anne Catherine Emmerich offers nullification of confusion of tongues as reward for conversion back to Catholicism and giving up human pride. This Catholic reward is documented here: http : / / indo – european . eu / wiki / index . php / Adamic _ language
If you want your own Hindu myth reverted, please do as I preach, and become again Catholic Proto-Indo-Europeans made from you, then former pagan confusees.
January 3, 2009 at 9:51 am
VENKAT I THINK THIS GUYS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN “CONFUSED RELIGION NUTS’.
THEY HAVE NO IDEA OF ABOUT OUR CULTURE AND I THINK THEY HAVE NO IDEA OF THEIR OWN CULTURE IS WELL.
January 3, 2009 at 10:23 am
Vedic Culture: As Relevant Today as Ever
By Stephen Knapp(this guy have some gyan of our culture)
By investigating the knowledge and viewpoints in the many topics found in Vedic culture we can certainly see that the practice and utilization of this Vedic knowledge can indeed assist us in many ways. In regard to all the trouble we presently find in this world, maybe it is time to look at things through a different and deeper view to find the answers and directions that are so needed. The knowledge and understandings of this great Vedic culture may indeed be what will help us see through the fog of confusion that seems to envelope so much of society.
What we find in Vedic culture are areas of study, progress and expression that are as relevant today for human advancement as they were hundreds or thousands of years ago. India and its Vedic culture has contributed much to the world, such as its music, beautiful forms of art and architecture, martial arts, astronomy, holistic medicine in Ayurveda, and the mathematical system based on the number ten, along with its yoga and philosophy. In the United States, yoga has exploded into a three billion dollar industry. A recent survey (at the time of this writing in 2005) showed that 16.5 million people are practicing yoga, or 7.5 percent of the United States. Also, the Yoga Journal magazine has grown from a circulation of 90,000 in 1998, to 170,000 in 2000, to 325,000 in 2005.
Vedic mathematics is another example of its contribution to world progress. It is an ancient development that continues to play an important part in modern society. Without the advancements in math that had been established by Vedic culture as far back as 2500 BC and passed along to others, such as the Greeks and Romans, we would not have many of the developments and inventions that we enjoy today. The Greek alphabet, for example, was a great hindrance to calculating. The Egyptians also did not have a numerical system suitable for large calculations. For the number 986 they had to use 23 symbols. Even after the Greeks, the Romans also were in want of a system of mathematical calculations. Only after they adopted the Indian system that was called Arabic numerals did they find what they needed. Weights and measures and scales with decimal divisions had been found from that period which were quite accurate.
The difference was that Vedic mathematics had developed the system of tens, hundreds, thousands, etc., and the basis of carrying the remainder of one column of numbers over to the next. This made for easy calculations of large numbers that was nearly impossible in other systems, as found with the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians and even Chinese. The Vedic system had also invented the zero, which has been called one of the greatest developments in the history of mathematics.
The numeral script from India is said to have evolved from the Brahmi numerals. This spread to Arabia through traders and merchants, and from there up into Europe and elsewhere. It became known as the Arabic numerals, yet the Arabians had called them “Indian figures” (Al-Arqan-Al-Hindu) and the system of math was known as hindisat, or the Indian art.
Vedic culture already had an established mathematical system that had been recorded in the Shulba Sutras. These are known to date back to the 8th century BC. The name Shulba Sutras meant “codes of rope”. This was because such calculations were used for measuring precise distances for altars and temple structures by using lengths of rope.
The Shulba Sutras were actually a portion of a larger text on mathematics known as the Kalpa Sutras. These and the Vedic mathematicians were recognized for their developments in arithmetic and algebra. Indians were the first to use letters of the alphabet to represent unknowns. But they were especially known for what they could do in geometry. In fact, geometrical instruments had been found in the Indus Valley dating back to 2500 BC. Furthermore, what became known as the Pythagorean theorem was already existing in the Baudhayana, the earliest of the Shulba Sutras before the 8th century BC. This was presented by Pythagoras around 540 BC after he discovered it in his travels to India. So this shows the advanced nature of the Vedic civilization.
After the Shulba Sutras, Vedic mathematics enjoyed further development in the field of Jyotish, Vedic astronomy, which used all forms of math. Indian mathematicians continued creating systems that were not known in Europe until much later in the Renaissance period. For example, Aryabhatta in the 5th century introduced sines and versed sines, and is credited as the inventor of algebra. He is said to be the first to state that the Earth travels around the sun. However, the ancient Vedic texts have described this many years earlier, which shows the wisdom of the early Vedic seers.
Aryabhatta was followed by Brahmagupta (7th century) who was the great mathematician that especially developed the use of zero and was the first to use algebra to solve problems in astronomy. Next was Mahavira (9th century) who made great strides in the use of fractions and figuring out how to divide one fraction by another. Then there was Bhaskara (12th century) who made progress in spherical trigonometry and principles of calculus before Newton by 500 years. He used it to determine the daily motion of planets.
The Vedic system of math, as explained in the sutras, also reduced the number of steps in calculations to merely a few that otherwise required many steps by conventional methods. Thus, this ancient science is still worthy of study today.
In 600 BCE, Sushruta recorded complicated surgeries like cesareans, cataract, artificial limbs, fractures, urinary stones and even plastic surgery and brain surgery. Usage of anesthesia was well known in ancient India. Over 125 surgical instruments were used. Deep knowledge of anatomy, physiology, etiology, embryology, digestion, metabolism, genetics and immunity is also found in many texts.
A well-developed medical system was in existence by the 1st century A.D. Progress in medicine led to developments in chemistry and the production of medicine, alkaline substances and glass. Colorfast dies and paints were developed to remain in good condition over the centuries. The paintings in the caves of Ajanta are a testimony to this.
Vedic art is another ancient development that still holds much appreciation in modern times. Art in the Vedic tradition was never a mere representation of an artist’s imagination. It was always a vehicle to convey higher truths and principles, levels of reality that may exist beyond our sense perception. It was always used to bring us to a higher purpose of existence and awareness. In this way, it was always sacred and beheld the sacred. Still today it is used to allow others to enter into a transcendental experience. It may also present the devotional objects of our meditation.
Vedic paintings or symbols are unique in that they can deliver the same spiritual energy, vibration and insight that it represents. In other words, through the meditation and devotional mood of the artist, the art becomes a manifestation of the higher reality. In this way, the painting or symbol becomes the doorway to the spiritual essence contained within. They are like windows into the spiritual world. Through that window we can have the experience of darshan of the Divine or divinities, God or His associates. Darshan is not merely seeing the Divine but it is also entering into the exchange of seeing and being seen by the Divine.
Thus the art, or the Deity, is beyond mundane principles or ingredients, such as paint, paper, stone or metal with which it may be made, but it becomes completely spiritual through which the Deity can reveal Himself or Herself. Thus, the truth of spiritual reality can pierce through the darkness of the material energy and enter our mind and illuminate our consciousness.
To convey higher realities in paintings and sculpture, everything has a meaning. The postures, gestures, colors, instruments or weapons, everything conveys a principle or purpose, which often must be explained to those who lack understanding. Thus, knowing the inner meaning of the painting increases its depth for those who can perceive it, which makes it worthy of further meditation and contemplation.
As with art, dance in India was not merely an expression of an artist’s emotional mindset or imagination, but was meant to be an interpretation or conveyance of higher spiritual principles or pastimes of the Divine. In fact, in the Vedic pantheon Shiva is known as Nataraja, the king of dancers. Shiva’s dance was also not without a more significant purpose. His dance was based on the rhythm of cosmic energy that pervades the universe, and the destruction of the illusory energy by which all souls are given the opportunity for release from the illusion to attain liberation, moksha.
In this way, traditional Indian dance is highly spiritual and often accompanies important religious rituals and holy days and festivals. Vedic dance goes back to prehistoric times. Bharata Muni wrote his Natya Shastra, science of drama and dance, over 2000 years ago. In it he explains that it was Lord Brahma, the secondary engineer of the universal creation, who brought dance (natya) and drama to the people of Earth millions of years ago, shortly after the Earth was created.
Now dance has evolved into a tradition involving various schools and styles but with strict discipline. It is not uncommon that Indian families will have their daughters spend at least several years or more in such study and practice. There is a precise method of postures, facial and hand gestures (mudras), and movements, along with footwork that must be learned and synchronized to the beat and music in order to convey specific meanings, moods and stories to the audience. Many temples, especially in South India, were known for maintaining large groups of dancers that performed at festivals and religious functions.
When the dance is performed according to the spiritual standards, which some view as similar to the practice of yoga, even the dancers can invoke a high degree of spirituality in their own consciousness and bring unity between their inner selves and God. Then the transcendental atmosphere can manifest and draw the Divine to appear in the performers on stage. Thus, the environment becomes transformed and the audience may also experience darshan of the Divine and experience an inspiring upliftment in their own consciousness. In this way, the dance is divine beauty in motion. Or it is a way of invoking the spiritual dimension into our midst. Few other forms of dance attempt to do this.
Various schools of dance include Bharata Natyam, Kathakali, Manipuri, Orissi, Kathak, Mohini Atam, Krishna Atam, Bhagavata Mela, etc. Thus, we may have many dances that convey stories from the Ramayana and Mahabharata, or Krishna-lila from the Bhagavata Purana. Nowadays this ancient art of Indian dance is enjoying a wide audience and a prominent place on the international stage.
So, as we can see, Vedic culture and its many areas of knowledge and devotional expression are still as relevant today as it was thousands of years ago. And humanity can benefit from it by introspection and in spiritual as well as material development as it did in the past.
The power of the Dharma and the relevancy of Vedic culture are found in the number of tools it has always provided in order for humanity to reach its fullest potentials, both as individuals who are searching for their own fulfillment and spiritual awakening, and as a society that can function in harmony with nature and cooperation amongst themselves.
By investigating the knowledge and viewpoints in the many topics found in the Vedic tradition we can certainly see that the practice and utilization of this Vedic knowledge can indeed assist us in many ways. Let us take a look at a few.
AYURVEDA
Ayurveda is the Vedic system of holistic medicine. It has become quite popular in the West and is continuing to gain ground and acceptance. To understand briefly what Ayurveda is, I let Pratichi Mathur, an Ayurvedic practitioner herself, tell us about it from the book, “Vedic Culture: The Difference It Can Make in Your Life”:
“So what is Ayurveda exactly? Literally translated from Sanskrit it is composed of two words ‘Ayus’ which means life and ‘Veda’ which denotes knowledge. So Ayurveda is the knowledge of healthy living and is confined not only to the treatment of diseases. Life is a vast, and an all-encompassing phenomena, which includes death. On one end, life is a celebration of birth, growth, child bearing, youth and sexuality; on the other end, life also brings forth disease, decay, aging, and loss of vigor. Ayurveda is that ancient art and science that helps us understand this very ‘life’ with all its different shades and colors; understand how best we can undertake this journey; and how we transition through its different phases, example from teenage, to adulthood, to maturity, etc. Following the principles of Ayurveda brings about a profound understanding of the inner ability to have sound body, mind and spirit. From this point of view, Ayurveda is a compendium of life and not disease. This is a major agenda indeed for any system of medicine, but can it be any less–especially if true healing has to take place. Perhaps, this is exactly why Ayurveda manages to get to the root of the disease that distresses the mind or the emotion that ails the body.
“Ayurveda has twin objectives–maintaining the health of the healthy, and cure illnesses of the diseased. Ayurveda, which is not just a system of disease and its management, but literally a living dynamic philosophy and manual on the art of living, is well fitted to meet its objectives. On one hand Ayurveda offers treatments like Panchakarma or even surgery for the diseased; and on the other hand Ayurveda offers preventative medicine for the healthy. These include elaborate details for following ideal daily and seasonal routines, specialized diets for optimizing health and immunity (Ojas), Rasayana Chikitsa (promotive therapy), Vajikarna Chikitsa (aphrodisiac therapy), Swasthavritta (regimen to stay healthy furnishing details on topics such as exercise, smoking for health), Sadachar (social hygiene), etc.
“Ayurveda advocates a complete promotive, preventive and curative system of medicine and includes eight major clinical specialties of medicine namely, (1) Medicine (Kayachikitsa), (2) Surgery (Salya Tantra), (3) ENT (Salakya Tantra), (4) Pediatrics (Kaumatabhritya), (5) Psychiatry (Bhutvidya), (6) Toxicology (Agad Tantra), (7) Nutrition, rejuvenation and geriatrics (Rasayan tantra), and (8) Sexology and virilization (Vajikarana). This shows what a developed science Ayurveda was in ancient times.
“The exact origin of Ayurveda is lost in the mists of antiquity. Since Panini is placed at 7th century BC and Ayurveda depicts non-Paninian Sanskrit grammar, it is logical to place Ayurveda between 6th –10th Century BC. Tracing the continuity of Ayurveda, it is natural to look for the continuing thread in India’s ancient Vedic tradition. Although the term Ayurveda, does not seem to appear in the Vedas, and it appears first in Panini’s Ashtadhayayi, however, there are positive evidences to show that in the Vedic period, medicine as a profession was prevalent. The Rig Veda and the Atharva Veda both mention that there were thousands of medical practitioners and thousands of medicines. References to Ayurveda are found as early as the Rig Veda. The three Rig Vedic gods Indra, Agni and Soma relate to the three biological humors: Vata, Pitta and Kapha. References are made of organ transplants as in the case of the artificial limb of queen Vishpala, daughter of King Khela. The functions of physicians are also described in the Rig Veda.
“Rishi Sushruta, famous Ayurvedic Surgeon, also holds that Ayurveda is a supplement (upanga) of the Atharva Veda. While several other sources including the famous Hindu epic Mahabharata speak of Ayurveda as an upanga of Atharva Veda; several other schools of thought hold Ayurveda as a fifth Veda (Panchamveda). Perhaps Ayurveda grew from Atharva Veda first as a branch and then as a comprehensive vast system deserving it’s own status, or it developed parallel to the four Vedas as an independent knowledge (with close resemblance to the Atharva Veda).”
JYOTISH: VEDIC ASTROLOGY
Jyotish is the Vedic form of astrology, which is an ancient science and is also being accepted and gaining popularity in the West. Vedic Astrology is meant to help the individual better find his or her way through life. It is to assist in discovering one’s highest proclivities, personality, character, qualities and traits and what may be one’s best direction for a career, and other things. Thus a person will least likely waste one’s time in unfulfilling activities, professions or pursuits.
To further our understanding of Jyotish, I let Chakrapani Ullal, one of the most well-known Vedic Astrologers, describe it as taken from the book, “Vedic Culture: The Difference It Can Make in Your Life”:
“We turn our attention now to the subject of a branch of the Vedas called Vedic astrology or Jyotish, which is called the ‘eye of the Vedas’. It has a cognizing influence of the truth of life and self-knowledge. It acts as a mirror to an individual without which one may not know how to approach life most effectively. It is also called the ‘Science of Time’. Time is the source power that rules the universe. All things originate through the procession of time. Hence, Vedic Astrology constitutes the science that maps the structure of time. Astrology is considered divine knowledge that is pure, supreme, secret, and exalted.
“Astrology can be defined as the science of correlations of astronomical facts with terrestrial events, and demonstrates the Vedic understanding of the universal interconnectedness and interdependence of all phenomenon, that microcosm and macrocosm are but reflections of one another. Just as mathematics is the organizing principle of science when dealing with inanimate matter, so also astrology is the organizing principle which deals with life and its significance in relation to all living bodies. The planets are seen as reflectors or transmitters of light and solar energy. The solar and planetary rays, like radio waves, affect biological and psychological processes. The rays of influence are unseen vibrations that are not perceptible to the physical eye.
“Astrology gives insight and guidance to the fortunes and misfortunes of men, issues of empires and republics, floods and earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, plagues, pestilence and other incidents concerning terrestrial phenomena in relation to the regular movements of the planets.
“Over 10,000 years ago the ancient sages, in their super-conscious state, cognized that there is energy in planets, and that they send out different rays at different angles which bear influence on everything animate and inanimate on other planets. Through their sensitized intuition and repeated observations these highly evolved souls were able to find out the different characteristics inborn in the planets and also discovered that each rules a distinctive part of the human mind/body. It was also found that particular groups of stars known as constellations have different characteristics, and that they modulate the influence of the planets.
“Astrologers say that there are two forces, Daiva and Purushakara, fate and individual energy. The individual energy can modify and even frustrate fate. Moreover, the stars often indicate several fate possibilities; for example, that one may die in mid-age, but that if, through determination, one gives attention in that area it can be overcome, one can live to a predictable old age. Thus, astrology does not say that events must and should happen, but gives the benefic and malefic tendencies which can be directed or modified through conscious effort. The horoscope shows a man’s character and temperament. Though it may show that he could become a criminal, it does not mean he is fated to become so. What it means is that he is just the sort of person who will have criminal tendencies, but they can be checked by proper care and training. Additionally, if emotional and financial challenges are indicated in any particular year, one can certainly meet the crisis better if one knows that it might occur.
“Then, how would one define astrology? It is the philosophy of discovering and analyzing past impulses and future actions of both individuals and nations in the light of planetary configurations. Astrology explains life’s reactions to planetary vibrations.”
VEDIC GEMOLOGY
Gemology is an important field in today’s market. But when we speak of Vedic gemology, we do not mean that it is merely for judging the value of a gem. The Vedic purpose in gemology is to determine the best type of quality gem for a person to wear. Thus, Vedic gemology worked in conjunction with Ayurveda and Jyotish to establish the best gem a person should wear for health and positive influence. To give a little more understanding about this increasingly recognized field, I include the following description by Howard Beckman, a qualified and practicing Vedic gemologist, from the book, “Vedic Culture: The Difference It Can Make in Your Life”:
“It is a field that is making great strides medically by using gems for illness and disease both of the physical body and the mind. It is a noninvasive therapy that has produced definite repeatable results medically. (It should be noted that only natural gems, not synthetic, have this inherent energy and also that certain gem treatments commonly used for color or clarity enhancement will render the gem ‘dead’ and ineffective.) Our research and record keeping of case histories of gem use in jewelry for astrological reasons has also allowed us to not only prove the efficacy of gems, but in “debunking” commonly held incorrect notions as far as how to recommend them, as well as baseless superstitions.
“It is the energy force of the cosmos that sustains all living organisms. This energy is called ‘prana’. It energizes our bodies throughout life until it leaves at the time of death, leaving the gross material body to decay and return to the elements from which it arose. The Vedic scriptures calculate our life spans in the number of breaths we are allotted during our lives. If we use this energy more quickly, then the life span will be shorter. (Long distance runners are renowned for dying in their 50’s.) If we conserve our energy, especially through systems such as the yoga system, then the life span may be extended. The Ayurvedic system of healing first evaluates the intake and distribution of prana within both the physical and subtle (ethereal) bodies of an individual.
“Gem therapy has been used by many ancient cultures and especially the wearing of gemstones on the body had great significance for the Vedic culture, other than the purely cosmetic or ornamental value that gems are mostly used for today. The science of Ayurveda when combined with Vedic astrology gives a wealth of knowledge in the correct application of gemstones to amplify planetary rays, which can have a dynamic effect on one’s physical and emotional health, one’s ability to prosper materially, and the general well-being of individual persons here on earth.
“As Gems have such vibratory qualities, we may utilize them to not only affect the brain, but also the higher vibrations in the physical body necessary for healthy functioning of all our internal and external organs. Dr. Young and Bruce Tainio of Cheny University in Washington have made the following statements from their research in this regard. ‘The average frequency of the human body during the daytime is between 62 and 68 cycles per second. If it drops below this rate the immune defense system will start to shut down. Cold symptoms appear at 58 cycles, flu at 57, candida at 55, glandular fever at 52, and cancer at 42 cycles per second’.
“Natural (meaning from the earth, which does not include synthetic, man-made material), untreated gemstones, which are repositories of cosmic colors, can restore the pranic energy to the cells of the body, so that its natural vibratory rate and normal health may be regained when it is in a diseased condition. Blue sapphire can tranquilize or have a sedative effect. Emerald can be used as an analgesic. Yellow sapphire has antiseptic properties, and diamond’s ability to stimulate cell growth are just a few examples of how gems can affect the healing process in the body.”
VASTU SHASTRA
Vãstu is the Vedic science of architectural and home arrangement. It made its way through the orient and became known as Feng Shui, which has made particular progress in popularity in the West. However, Vastu is a particular science that deals with the flow of energy through a house or building for the highest benefits. It is not enough to merely arrange a house so it looks nice or that there is a good flow of energy through it. But there is much that depends on the directions in which things are facing or which parts of the building in which certain activities are performed.
To get a little more insight into the Vedic science of Vãstu, I have included the following description by Arun Naik, an architect that practices the science and art of Vãstu Shãstra. Again, this is taken from the book, “Vedic Culture: The Difference It Can Make in Your Life”:
“The Vedic and the Agamic traditions of ancient India always held that the microcosm is a reflection of the macrocosm. A dwelling is an ecological unit, a microcosm which reflects the Cosmos, the macrocosm. Vãstu Shãstra is the applied aspect of this philosophy, a highly refined method of creating a living space which is a miniature replica of the cosmos as perceived by the Vedas. Vãstu Shãstra is about emulating the attributes of the Cosmic Space, about bringing the divine sentinels of Cosmic Directions into our homes, about creating Harmony by creating a living environment where the forces of nature are balanced and at peace with each other.
“Sri Aurobindo has said… ‘Indian sacred architecture of whatever date, style or dedication goes back to something timelessly ancient and now outside India almost wholly lost, something which belongs to the past, and yet it goes forward too, though this the rationalistic mind will not easily admit, to something which will return upon us and is already beginning to return, something which belongs to the future.’ (SA, The Renaissance in India)
“There is a prayer is Sama Veda:
` *aE> zaiNtrNtir]‡ zaiNt> p&iwvI zaiNtrap> zaiNtrae;xy> zaiNtRvnSpty> zaiNtivRñedeva> zaiNtRäü zaiNt> svR‡zaiNt> zaiNtrev zaiNt> sama ziNtreix, suzaiNtRÉvtu.
May there be peace in the sky, may there be peace in mid region, may there be peace on earth, may there be peace in the waters, may the medicinal plants be peaceful, may the forest be peaceful, may there be peace in gods, may Brahma be peaceful, may all the creation be peaceful, may there be peace and peace only, may such peace come to us.
“Vãstu is about creating an Inner Space, the chidakash, where this divine peace can park itself. And it achieves it by creating a harmonious external environment–the bahyakash.
“At a more earthly level, Vãstu Shãstra aims at establishing a dynamic balance between Form and Energy so that harmonious conditions are created for the inhabitants. Vãstu buildings have harmonious energies and they promote stability, prosperity, happiness, and mental peace for the occupants and owners.
“The principle of Vãstu is that the Cosmic World with its order and stern discipline has been built by the gods who occupy all the spaces, from the celestial Space within the Cosmic World to the little spaces in our homes, and even our mental space, chidambaram. Man’s existence in the Cosmic World has a purpose: it must ascend to immortality and godhood; and the gods, having occupied man’s inner Space, strive to create different states in man’s consciousness for his ascension from mortality and low nature to Truth, godhood and immortality. Vãstu Shãstra helps the effort of the gods by creating an external space–a dwelling, a place to worship and meditate, or a place to work by applying the same laws which the gods have used to create the Cosmic World. This, indeed, is the ultimate function and the highest objective of Vãstu Shãstra.”
* * *
So here we can see how various aspects of the ancient Vedic culture are still applicable today and can provide assistance in our attempts to reach our highest potential, both materially and spiritually. This is the constant and higher nature of the power of the dharma that can be recognized and utilized generation after generation.
[This article available at: http://www.stephen-knapp.com
January 3, 2009 at 10:32 am
AT LEAST WOMEN GET HERE WHAT THE SHOULD IN THE SAKE OF HUMANITY:
Posted: 21:00 (IST)
16. July 2005
VINA | Philosophical Articles
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WOMEN IN VEDIC CULTURE
by Stephen Knapp (Sri Nandanandana dasa)
Examples of Great Women in Vedic Culture
Some of the women that have helped make great strides in establishing the foundation of Sanatana-dharma and Vedic culture can be listed and described. They serve as fine examples of historical importance that have been the basis for inspiration to both men and women for centuries. From the early Vedic times these include such women as Sati, Sita, Anasuya, Arundhatee, Draupadi, Queen Kunti, Shakuntala, Maitreyi, Gargi, Madalasa, Savitri, Ahalya, and others. It is said simply reciting their names removes sins. There are additional women from the last few hundred years whose lives we can recollect as well. Such great women have contributed to the glories and splendor of Vedic culture. So let us briefly review the lives of some of these great women.
Madalasa was the daughter of Vishvasu, the Gandharva king. She was also a great inspiration to her sons. Ritdhvaj, the son of the powerful king Shatrujit, was her husband. When Shatrujit died, Ritdhvaj took the position of king and engaged in the royal duties. In due course, Madalasa gave birth to a son, Vikrant. When Vikrant would cry, Madalasa would sing words of wisdom to keep him quiet. She would sing that he was a pure soul, that he has no real name and his body is merely a vehicle made of the five elements. He is not really of the body, so why does he cry?Thus, Madalasa would enlighten her son with spiritual knowledge in the songs she would sing to him. Because of this knowledge, little Vikrant grew up to be an ascetic, free from worldly attachments or kingly activities, and he eventually went to the forest to engage in austerities. The same thing happened to her second son, Subahu, and her third son, Shatrumardan. Her husband told her that she should not teach the same knowledge to their fourth son, Alark, so that at least one of them would be interested in worldly activities and take up the role of looking after the kingdom. So to Alark she sang a song of being a great king who would rule the world, and make it prosperous and free from villains for many years. By so doing he would enjoy the bounty of life and eventually join the Immortals. In this way, she trained her son Alark from the beginning of his life in the direction he would take. This is how a mother can influence her child in whatever potential may be possible, whether materially or spiritually, by imparting noble thoughts to open the avenues of activities for her children.
Sati. From the Puranas we learn how Sati would not tolerate the dishonor of her husband Lord Shiva. Sati was the daughter of Prajapati Daksha, who was one of the sons of Brahma. Once Daksha arranged to hold a major religious ritual (yajna) in his capital, near present day Haridwar. Many kings, emperors and demigods were invited. However, Daksha did not respect Shiva, so Shiva was not invited. Nonetheless, Sati wanted to go to see her father and many sisters. Shiva tried to dissuade her from going, saying it was not good to go uninvited. But Sati went anyway to participate in the yajna. Unfortunately, she found that her father was greatly insulting her husband, Shiva. Not bearing the dishonor of her husband, she self-immolated in fire and left this world altogether, leaving her body in ashes.
When Lord Shiva heard about this, he was terribly angry and taking a hair from his head, he threw it to the ground and it turned into the demon Veerabhadra who was the anger of Lord Shiva and who disrupted the yajna. In disappointment, Lord Shiva then bore the body of Sati to different places in the world. Sati’s various limbs dropped as Shiva carried her body, and wherever a limb dropped became a Siddhapeetha, which remain major places of Shakti worship. According to the Devi Bhagavata there are 108 such Siddhapeethas, while other texts say there are 51. Among these, 42 are in India, 2 in Nepal, 1 in Tibet, 1 in Sri Lanka, 1 in Pakistan, and 4 in Bangladesh.
Sati then reincarnated as the daughter of the Himalaya Parvata, and thus she became known as Parvati. She underwent great austerities and won Lord Shiva as her husband once again.
Anasuya was a woman who could bring back the life of a dead sage due to the power of her own austerity and devotion to her husband. She showed that devotion to a qualified husband gives the wife fame, power and is the fulfillment of her dharma. Anasuya was the wife of the sage Atri. Her mother was daughter of the sage Svayambhuva and her father was Kardama Muni. Her fame had spread throughout both the Earth and the planets of the Devas.
According to the Markandeya Purana, there was once a sage named Mandasya who cursed a brahmana named Kaushika to die the next morning at sunrise. When Kaushiki, Kaushika’s wife, heard the news, she vowed that by the power of her chastity the sun would never rise. When the sun did not rise for many days, everyone started to become alarmed. Brahma then told the other demigods to go to Anasuya and she could assist them to continue the sunrise by the force of her moral power. Anasuya then entreated Kaushiki to allow the sunrise to resume. Kaushiki then allowed the sunrise to take place, but her husband immediately expired because of the curse. Yet, Anasuya brought the husband back to life by the power of her own austerity and devotion to her husband. Being pleased by this, the demigods gave Anasuya the blessing to have her wish for three sons who would be reincarnations of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Thus, Brahma appeared as Soma, Vishnu as Dattatreya, and Shiva as Durvasa. Of course she was also greatly honored by her husband who said to Sri Rama when Rama once visited Atri’s ashrama during His exile, that Anasuya was a great lady, following the path of austerity and deserves the salutations of all beings. Anasuya was a bright example among women.
Sita is fully described in the Ramayana. She was the daughter of King Janaka, ruler of Mithila. The king was engaged in ritually plowing the land to help produce food to counter a famine at the time, and while using a golden plow, it revealed a pitcher that had been buried from which Sita appeared. The plow tip is called a sita, thus Sita was the name given to her. At the time, the demon Ravana had collected tax from the local sages who had placed their blood in this pitcher. Thus, when the plow later uncovered and churned the pitcher, the life-force from the sages produced Sita, and Sita thus became the cause of Ravana’s destruction.
As related in the Ramayana, Lord Rama won Sita’s hand in marriage. But due to political intrigue, Rama’s father, Dasharatha, had to keep a promise he had made to his second wife Kaikeyi, who wanted her own son to ascend the throne and not Lord Rama. So she had Rama and Sita thrown into exile and made to wander the forests. During that time, Ravana abducted Sita and kept Her in the Ashoka-Vatika, the garden of Ashoka trees. He tried to force her to marry him but she would not. During that time Rama and Lakshmana wandered the forests in search of Her. In time they found out she had been taken by Ravana, and having learned where he was, Lord Rama finally put the end to him and rescued Sita.
Even though some citizens doubted Sita’s purity, she had undergone the Agni-Pariksha, or witness by fire to attest to her purity as a devoted wife. Even then it was over-heard that a washerman had doubts of Sita’s character, having spent so much time in Ravana’s house. So to help ward off any criticism, Rama exiled Sita to the forest ashrama of Valmiki. While there she gave birth to, Lava and Kush, the twin sons of Lord Rama. Valimiki once brought Sita and her sons to Ayodhya, the capital of Lord Rama, where the sons sang the Ramayana in front of Lord Rama. Valmiki also proclaimed that Sita was as good as purity and chastity incarnate.
Though Sita’s life was full of struggle and hardship, she was innocent and pure. She gave up all comforts to serve her beloved husband and uphold sanctity, faithfulness, virtue and moral standards. Thus she holds one of the highest places among women in Vedic culture and of woman’s character.
Draupadi was the daughter of Drupada who was the king of Panchala. She was born from the fire ritual and for this reason was also called Yajnaseni. Her dark complexion also gave her the name of Krishnaa. Queen Kunti was the mother of the five Pandava brothers, Arjuna, Bhisma, Yudhisthira, Sahadeva and Nakula. When the Pandavas brought Draupadi back to their home, they wanted to show her to their mother, but Kunti, without having seen Draupadi, told them that whatever they have they must all share equally. So Draupadi became the wife of all five Pandavas. It is said that Draupadi in a previous life had been the wife of Indra, the King of heaven, and she took five separate forms in serving her Pandava husbands. Thus, she was most devoted to her five husbands and was also a great devotee of the Supreme Lord, and regarded Lord Krishna as her ultimate protector.
One episode that shows this was when in the court of the Kauravas, wicked Dushashana tried to disrobe her in front of everyone. Draupadi became hopeless and fervently prayed to Krishna for protection. Krishna heard her prayers and though He was in Dwaraka, He protected her by providing an endless supply of cloth to her sari so that it never ended, and she was always covered and not dishonored in such a way.
Another time was when Durvasa Muni, who was known for his quick anger, suddenly decided to drop in on the Pandava camp, along with his many thousands of disciples. He would also want something to eat for himself and his followers. But the Pandavas had just ate and there was nothing more to prepare. Lord Krishna asked for whatever remnant grains were left in the pot. Being the Supreme Lord, if He was satisfied, then everyone would be satisfied. So He took what few grains were there and when Durvasa Muni arrived, they were all so full that they no longer wanted anything to eat, and thus left peacefully.
In Draupadi’s service to her husbands, she had said that she rises before anyone else, tolerates hunger and thirst, and goes to bed after the others. She also gave birth to five sons, all of whom were killed by the wicked Ashwatthama. But since he was the son of the family guru, and she had such respect for their gurus, he forgave him.
When the Pandavas had reached the end of their lives and were setting out to ascend to heaven by climbing up into the mountains, she was the last in line. But she was the first to fall and thus rise to heaven after her death. Her dedication and devotion make her one of the great personalities of Vedic culture.
Maitreyi was the wife of the great sage Yajnavalkya. His second wife was Katyayani. Both were devoted to their husband and of lofty character. However, Maitreyi had a higher regard for spiritual knowledge and devotion to God than did Katyayani. The Brihadaranayaka Upanishad relates that finally, the sage Yajnavalkya wanted to renounce householder life and accept the sannyasa order of life, and divide his possessions between his two wives. Maitreyi then questioned to herself what greater thing her husband must have found if he is willing to give up his present status in householder life. Surely no one will give up his position unless he finds something better. So she asked her husband if she had all the riches in the world, could she still attain immortality. Her husband said certainly not, it is not possible. All the happiness and conveniences from wealth will not lead you to God. So Maitreyi then asked why she should acquire wealth if it is not going to deliver her from future rounds of birth and death. She requested that he tell her about the Supreme Being, for which he was happily giving up household life.
Therefore, Yajnavalkya explained to Maitreyi all about the divine knowledge of the Self. He informed her that no being in this world has any capability of being dear to another without the presence of the soul within. Even to enjoy the beauty of this world has no meaning without the soul within our own body, for the soul is all that we are. Understanding the depths of spiritual knowledge is the way to attain moksha, liberation from the continued rounds of birth and death. Thus, Yajnavalkya took sannyasa and Maitreyi attained supreme bliss by hearing her husband’s discourse and by diving deep into this spiritual understanding. In this way, Maitreyi showed how all women can achieve the heights of spiritual understanding simply by careful listening and practicing the Vedic path.
Gargi was the daughter of Vashaknu, and was also called Vachakni. But because she was born in the line of the Garga Gotra or family line, she was also called Gargi, a name by which she became well known. The Brihadaranayaka Upanishad explains that she asked the sage many questions on spiritual science and became highly educated in this way. Once in the court of King Janaka there was arranged to be a debate on the spiritual sciences. He wanted to find out who was the person who knew best the science of the Absolute, and that person would receive 1000 decorated cows with horns plated with gold. None of the local brahmanas complied because they were afraid they would have to prove their knowledge, and may not be up to the task. However, the sage Yajnavalkya told his disciple to take all the cows to his place, which started the debate.
Yajnavalkya answered the questions from many scholars who approached him, setting aside all of their concerns and doubts. However, then came Gargi’s turn to ask the sage whatever she wanted. But she asked many different and complex questions on the immortality of the soul, the arrangement of the universe, and many other topics. Finally Gargi herself bowed to the sage and proclaimed that there was no one else who was more greatly learned in the Vedic Shastras than Yajnavalkya. In this way, Gargi showed that in Vedic culture it was not unexpected for women to become greatly learned in the Vedic sciences, nor that they could not discuss such topics with wise and kindly sages who also shared their knowledge with them. Thus she is a luminous example of women in the Vedic tradition.
Savitri was the only child of a king named Ashwapati, the king of Madra-Desha, as explained in the Mahabharata and Matsya Purana. He had performed austerities to please Lord Brahma and his consort, Savitri Devi, to have progeny by chanting the Savitri prayer. When a daughter arrived, he named her Savitri, and she grew to be a girl of great beauty and character, and wonderful personality and qualities. Unfortunately, her father could find no suitable husband for her when she became of age. So he sent her to different parts of the country so she could find a husband she deemed acceptable. After some time Savitri decided to marry Satyavana, but he was the son of Dyumatsena who was the blind and exiled king of Shalya-Desha. Because of this, they lived in the forest. Satyavana was simple but bore a countenance of royalty, which attracted Savitri.
Savitri returned to her father to relate the news, however the sage Narada Muni happened to be there and heard it and revealed that Satyavana was highly qualified but was to live for only one year longer. But Savitri had made her decision and would not marry another. So to fulfill Savitri’s intention, the king arranged for a wedding.
One day, after living in the forest for a year, Satyavana went off to chop some wood as usual. Savitri had been observing penance for many months and followed him into the woods. On this day Satyavana fell down with a headache. At that same time, Savitri saw a ferocious person approaching and could recognize that it was Yama, the lord of death, who was coming to take Satyavana since his life was ending. After Yama had taken Satyavana, Savitri started to follow Yama. He asked her not to follow him and even promised her many boons, all but the life of her husband. Nonetheless, Savitri continued to follow him until he granted her wishes.
Savitri asked Yama for her father-in-law’s eyesight to return, along with his lost kingdom. Then she asked for one hundred sons for her father. All these were granted as Yama became increasingly impatient. Then she asked for one hundred sons for herself as well, all of them as handsome and wise as Satyavana, to which Yama also agreed without much thought. But then he realized his mistake and had to allow Satyavana to continue with his life. Thus by the power of Savitri’s austerity, wisdom and devotion, she conquered death for her husband and blessed her own father and father-in-law as well.
GREAT WOMEN IN MORE RECENT TIMES
Sri Gangamata Goswamini was born as Sachi, the princess daughter of King Naresh Narayana in the present state of Bengal. She was a great devotee of God from her early childhood. As she grew and entered into her education, she studied grammar and poetry but soon spent all her time studying the Vedic scriptures. All the boys were attracted to her and her father began to think of arranging for her marriage. But she was not the least bit attracted to any young men. She was always filled with thoughts of Madana Gopala, Krishna.
Gradually the king and queen grew old and left this world, leaving the responsibilities of governing the kingdom to Sachi. She accepted these, but later arranged to allow other relatives to govern in her place as she went to see the holy places on the plea of traveling throughout the kingdom. After so much travel, she still was not satisfied and wanted to find a spiritual master. Then she went to Jagannatha Puri and while having darshan of the Deities she was inspired with an inner message to go to Vrindavana.
After arriving in Vrindavana she met Haridas Pandit, who was solely devoted to Lord Gauranga and Nityananda. Sachi was filled with ecstasy and after meditating for several days Haridas Pandit gave her shelter, upon which she prayed to him with tearful eyes begging for his mercy for spiritual advancement. Haridas discouraged her from staying in Vrindavana, telling her that it is not possible for a princess to remain absorbed in bhajan with little to eat and no comforts. But she stayed and gradually gave up her nice clothes and opulent ornaments. Noticing this determination, Haridas instructed with his blessings that she could wander throughout Vrajamandala and beg from place to place as a renounced devotee. Having accepted Haridas as her guru, she was filled with joy. Thereafter, freed from her false ego and dressed in rags, she went begging alms and exhibited her intense renunciation which astonished all the devotees.
Her body grew thin and physically exhausted. She would sleep on the banks of the Yamuna and rise to sweep the Lord’s temple, have darshan and listen to the Bhagavatam classes. Haridasa became very happy seeing the intent of Sachi and promised to give her initiation into the mantra. Haridasa Pandit had another disciple named Lakshmipriya who at that time arrived in Vrindavana. She used to chant 300,000 names of Krishna everyday. Haridasa sent her to live near Sachi on the banks of the Radhakunda. Everyday Lakshmipriya and Sachi would circumambulate Govardhana Hill. Thus they continued in their devotional service to the Lord with great determination. Then one day Haridasa Pandit instructed Sachi to return to Jagannatha Puri to continue her bhajan there and preach what she learned of Sri Chaitanya’s teachings. However, most of Sri Chaitanya’s associates had already left the planet.
Sri Sachidevi returned to Jagannatha Puri and stayed in Sarvabhauma’s house where she engaged in bhajan and gave classes on the Srimad-Bhagavatam. She also established first class worship of the Damodara Salagram in that house, which was crumbling and where few people ever visited. However, her classes became famous and many people started to attend to listen to her discourses. One day even the king of Puri, Mukunda Dev, came to hear her Bhagavatam class, and he was astounded. He wanted to make a nice offering to her in appreciation for her worship to Lord Krishna, and that night he had a wonderful dream in which Lord Jagannatha appeared to him and said to offer her a place on the banks of the Sveta (White) Ganges.
The next day the king went to make the offering to Sachidevi, but she was not inclined to accept any wealth or comforts and wanted to refuse. The king persisted and not wishing to violate Lord Jagannatha’s order, he issued a decree dedicating a holy ghat by the side of the White Ganges after Sri Sachidevi. The decree stated that she was a princess that gave up everything to come to Puri and preach the teachings of Lord Chaitanya.
One day Sri Sachidevi wanted to go to the Ganges to bathe, but remembered the order of her spiritual master never to leave Jagannatha Puri. That night she had a dream wherein Lord Jagannatha appeared to her and told her not to worry, that the day when Varuni will take bath is approaching when you must go to bathe in the White Ganges. Gangadevi had been praying for Sachidevi’s association, so she should go.
Sachidevi was extremely happy, having had this divine vision. The day of the Varuni-snana came and in the middle of the night Sachideva went to the White Ganges to bathe, but the current of Gangadevi overflooded the pond and carried her away to the Jagannatha Mandira. Seeing this, thousands of devotees became ecstatic and also took their holy bath in the Ganges.
In the midst of the commotion, the guards of the Jagannatha temple awoke and were speechless to see all that had happened. Hearing the noise, they went inside the temple. The king had also awoken and ordered the gates of the temple to be opened. When the doors were open, Sachidevi was standing there alone inside the temple. The servants and priests concluded that she must be a thief to steal Jagannatha’s valuable ornaments. Then Sachidevi was taken to the dungeon where she was imprisoned to stand trial for theft. Sachidevi was indifferent and remained absorbed in chanting the Lord’s holy names.
Later that night, Lord Jagannatha appeared to Mukunda Dev in a dream and demanded that he release Sachidevi. The Lord explained that it was because of His personal arrangement to wash Sachidevi’s holy feet that He had the Ganga bring Sachidevi to His temple. If the king wanted his life to be auspicious, then he better have all of the pandas and priests bow at her feet and beg for forgiveness, and the king must take initiation from her. The next day the king did as he was told, making sure that everyone paid full obeisances to her while asking for forgiveness for the offenses made at the feet of a devotee. He also begged that she accept him as a disciple and give him initiation.
Sachidevi become very joyful, understanding that this was all due to the arrangement of the Lord. Placing her hand on the king’s head, she blessed him, and soon thereafter she gave him initiation into the eighteen syllable Radha-Krishna mantra. Many of the priests also took shelter of her on that day. It was from that day that Sachidevi became known as Gangamata Goswamini.
One day a strict smarta-brahmana, Mahidhara Swami, came to the banks of the Sveta-Ganga and wanted to have darshan of her holy feet. He had come to offer worship for his ancestors and while in discussion with Sri Gangamata Goswamini, she instructed the Srimad-Bhagavatam to him. The brahmana was astonished by her explanations and asked to take shelter of her. On an auspicious day she initiated him into the Radha-Krishna mantra of ten syllables. On the order of Sri Gangamata Goswamini, he preached the message of nama-prema, ecstasy of the holy name, and the teachings of Lord Chaitanya throughout Bengal.
Sri Sita Thakurani is the eternal wife of Sri Advaita Acharya, who is considered an avatara of Maha-Vishnu. Sita Thakurani is to be worshiped as much as Mother Sachideva, the mother of Sri Chaitanya. She married Advaita Acharya in Phuliya Nagara and they moved to Shantipura. Sita Thakurani was always absorbed in motherly devotion to Sri Chaitanya and would instruct Jagannatha Misra, Sri Chaitanya’s father, on how to care for the boy.
Advaita Acharya was the one who did special worship near the Ganges in Shantipur to call the Lord to appear in this world, having felt that the conditions were so bad that only the Lord Himself could help. Thus, both Advaita Acharya and Sita Thakurani were in great bliss when Sri Chaitanya appeared in this world, and she brought Him many presents. From then on, Sri Sita Thakurani would often come to Mayapur from Shantipur to see the child and to give instructions to Sachimata about how to care for the child.
The Gaura-Ganodesha Dipika explains that Sri Sita Thakurani is an incarnation of Yogamaya. The Gaura-Parshada-Chiritvali says that in the Krishna pastimes she was Purnamasi, the mother of Sandipani Muni, grandmother of Madhumangal and Nandimukhi, and a disciple of Narada Muni. The Gaura-Ganodesha Dipika however says that Purnamasi in the Krishna pastimes went on to become Sri Govinda Acharya in the Chaitanya pastimes.
When Sri Chaitanya was grown, he went to Gaya and became initiated by Iswara Puri. Afterwards he returned to Mayapur and started His sankirtana pastimes. Sri Advaita Acharya and Sita Thakurani were the first to worship Sri Chaitanya at the beginning of His real purpose in this world.
After Sri Chaitanya took sannyasa and went to Jagannatha Puri to live, Sri Advaita Acharya and Sita Thakurani would go and visit Him, bringing their own son, Achyutananda. On one such occasion Sita Thakurani made many of the Lord’s favorite preparations and invited Him to their place to take lunch. Simply to increase their ecstasy, the Lord honored their invitation. Always being absorbed in motherly affection, she treated Him like her own son and He returned the sentiment. Sri Sita Thakurani bore three sons, Achyutananda, Krishna Mishra and Gopala Mishra. Thus, she was an inspiration for spreading the mission of the sankirtana movement.
Sri Jahnava Mata was born of Sri Suryadasa, along with her sister Sri Vasudha. The Gaura-Ganodesha-dipika explains that They are both expansions of Varuni (Sri Vasudha) and Revati (Jahnava Mata), and that they are both incarnations of Ananga-manjari. In time the daughters became of marriageable age and Suryadasa gave it much thought. The one night he had a dream in which he gave both of his daughters to Sri Nityananda. Surya dasa then told a brahmana friend about this and it was arranged to deliver the message to Sri Nityananda Himself. Upon hearing of it He agreed, after which the ecstasy of Suryadasa knew no bounds.
Arrangements were made for the wedding at Borogacchi Gram, and many devotees from all around attended (the full details of which are recorded in the Bhakti-Ratnakara). Thus, Suryadasa was most fortunate to have given both of his daughters to Sri Nityananda Prabhu. Lord Nityananda stayed in Shaligrama Pura for a while but then went to Nabadvipa to show His mother Sachideva His two wives. Sachimata was delighted to see them. On the order of Sachimata, Nityananda went to the house of Advaita Acharya in Shantipura. When his wife Sita Thakurani saw Vasudha and Sri Jahnava, she floated in waves of ecstasy. Sri Nityananda wandered from place to place performing many sankirtana pastimes (congregational singing of the Lord’s holy names). In due course, Sri Vasudhadevi gave birth to a daughter named Ganga and a son named Virachandra. However, Sri Jahnavadevi had no children.
As time passed, Sri Nityananda Prabhu, Advaita Acharya, Shrivasa Pandita, and many other members of Lord Chaitanya’s personal entourage left this world to return to the spiritual domain. Sri Jahnava Mata still wanted to inundate the world with a flood of sankirtana nectar. In Kheturi Gram at that time was a great festival to be held on the celebration day of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s advent. Many devotees attended, like Narottama, Shyamananda and Shrinivas. The festival had been arranged by King Santosh Dutta. Sri Jahnava herself attended the festival and cooked the food for offering to the Gaura-Nitai Deities there. After the festival for one night, they went on to Nabadvipa. However, Sri Jahnava did not get to see Sachimata, Lord Chaitanya’s mother, and felt very unhappy. She went on to the home of Sripati and Srinidhi, but again was heartbroken because of not seeing Srivasa Pandit and Malinidevi there. After spending the night they went on to Shantipura and again discovered that Sri Advaita Acharya and his wife Sita Thakurani had also both passed away. Though greeted by their sons, Achyutananda and Gopala, Sri Jahnava was filled with grief.
Sri Jahnava Mata continued to travel with her associates and devotees, always gathering to perform sankirtana, the congregational chanting and singing of the Lord’s holy names. In this way, many devotees were able to drown themselves in the nectar of kirtana, and even many atheists and sinners were greatly purified. On one special occasion at Kheturi Gram, even Lord Chaitanya and Lord Nityananda, who had already left this world, made Their divine appearance again in the midst of the kirtana.
Sri Jahnava Mata was a wonderful cook and would prepare herself such dishes as rice, vegetable preps, and other foods to be offered to the Deities at such festivals. Thereafter, she would distribute the prasada (offered food) herself with her own hand to the great souls who were gathered there.
When Sri Jahnava went to visit Vrindavana, she was greeted by many great devotees, and her ecstasy was unlimited. The Gosvamis offered their pranams and she also offered her obeisances in return. She was very happy seeing the efforts of the Gosvamis in renovating the holy land. She toured the holy places of Vrindavana and saw the different Deities. After visiting the many pilgrimage places, she returned to Gaudadesha, Bengal. While there she also visited the town of Sri Nityananda’s birth, Ekachakra, and was filled with ecstasy to see where He partook of childhood pastimes. She continued her travels, returning to Nabadvipa and seeing the birthplace of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu where she fainted in ecstasy. She then went to the nearby courtyard of Srivasa, where she spent the night and the devotees engaged in a great sankirtana, for this is where Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu began His sankirtan movement. That night she had a dream of Lord Chaitanya in which He performed different pastimes.
In this way, Jahnava Mata continued in her pastimes of traveling to visit various devotees and engaging in sankirtana festivals, cooking food to be offered to the Deities, and even witnessing the appearance of Lord Chaitanya and Nityananda in the midst of some of those ecstatic kirtans. She continued to deliver the love of bhakti (devotion) to numerous people, even atheists and materialists by her mercy. Thus, being considered the divine shakti of Lord Nityananda Himself, she continued the mission of Lord Chaitanya and Lord Nityananda by her activities, which centered around sankirtana and cooking and distributing prasada to everyone.
Vishnupriya devi is the wife of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and appeared to assist with His mission of spreading the holy name of Krishna. She is said to be the internal potency of the Lord known as Bhu-shakti. Thus, Sri Chaitanya and Vishnupriya are as Vishnu and Lakshmi combined again.
Vishnupriya was the daughter of Sanatana Mishra. He was a highly developed Vishnu bhakta. He was pious and generous and would feed, clothe and shelter many people. He was famous as the king of pandits. It is said that he was a king named Satrijit in the age of Dvapara-yuga. It was a result of his great devotion that he was blessed with such a qualified daughter.
Vishnupriya was devoted to her parents and would bathe in the Ganga three times a day and observed many different vows of spiritual austerity, and was devoted to the shastric principles. Everyday when she would bathe in the Ganga, she would also bow at the feet of Mother Sachi, the mother of Sri Chaitanya, and Mother Sachi would bless her that Krishna may provide her with a qualified husband. Upon further enquiry Mother Sachi learned that she was the daughter of Sanatana Mishra, a qualified pandita of Nabadvipa, and she began to think that Vishnupriya may make a good wife for her own son Nimai, Sri Chaitanya.
At this time, Sri Chaitanya’s first wife, Lakshmipriya, had passed away and entered the spiritual domain. So Mother Sachi was in great pain at first, but started to think how to arrange for her son’s happiness. When she learned that He did not mind the idea of marrying again, Sachi began to make plans in earnest to have her son remarried, and proposed that a match be made with Vishnupriya. She made consultation with Sanatana Mishra and he agreed and was pleased. It was arranged by the people and devotees to be a grand event. (This is fully explained in the Chaitanya Bhagavata.)
Sri Vishnupriya spent her life as a devoted wife. Even when Sri Chaitanya took sannyasa to engage completely in His purpose of preaching and spreading the glories of Krishna’s holy names, Vishnupriya stayed with Mother Sachi, engaging in service to the Lord together. Later, Vishnupriya had her own Deity of Sri Chaitanya and worshiped that Deity until she left this world at the age of 92. This Deity is still worshiped in Nabadvipa in a temple where you can visit and have darshan of this same Deity. In this way, she also assisted in the continuation of Sri Chaitanya’s sankirtana movement and in the principles of Vedic culture.
Rani Chennamma of Kittur (in North Karnataka) was the first woman freedom fighter of India against the British. Rani Chennamma was known for her chivalry. She was born in 1778 and from childhood she trained herself in warfare. Her husband, Raja Mallasarja of Kittur, died in 1816 and her only son died in 1824. Chennamma adopted Shivalingappa as her son, but the British did not accept this. The Rani fought tirelessly with the British and with the help of her bodyguard, Balappa, she killed the British Southern provincial officer, Thackray. The British, however, regrouped and attacked Kittur. They followed non-Kshatriya methods and defeated and imprisoned her in Bailhongal. She was a great devotee of Lord Shiva. She died on 21 Feb 1829.
Rani Lakshmi Bai of Jhansi was one of the most brave and legendary of warrior women of India. The city of Jhansi was an important center in the 18th century, but in 1803 the British East India Company took over control of the state. The last raja at the time died without a son in 1853. The British had passed a law that allowed them to assume control of any state under their patronage if the ruler died without a male heir. The Rani of Jhansi, however, did not like this enforced retirement and preferred to rule on her own. So she was ready for the rebellion at Jhansi when the Indian Mutiny began. The British in Jhansi were killed, but the next year the British took Jhansi because of the disunity among the rebel forces. The rani fled to Gwalior and while there made a defiant last stand. Disguised as a man, she rode out to battle against the British, but was unfortunately killed. Her qualities of boldness, patriotism, and generalship were highly appreciated, even by her foreign rivals. Since then she has been a heroine of the independence movement of India.
The hilltop fortress of Chittorgarh was another but more general example of the chivalry of the Rajputs and the warrior spirit of the women. The fort has a long history. In 1303 was when the Pathan King of Delhi, Ala-ud-din Khilji, attacked the fort in an attempt to capture the queen Padmini, wife of Bhim Singh, the Rana’s uncle. When it was obvious that defeat was inevitable, the Rajput noblewomen, which included Padmini, committed Sati while Bhim Singh, knowing of his certain defeat, nonetheless took his men and put on the saffron robes of martyrdom and rode to battle and to their deaths. Honor was more important than death to them, and the women also would rather die than submit to the enemy and certain humiliation.
Another such event at Chittorgarh took place in 1535 when the Sultan of Gujarat, Bahadur Shah, besieged the fort, and once again the Rajputs did what they could. It is said that13,000 Rajput women and 32,000 Rajput warriors died in the battle. The last of such scenes took place in 1568 when the Moghul Emperor, Akbar, took the town. The women again performed Sati and 8000 saffron clad warriors rode out to their deaths. Again death was better than submitting to the Muslim invaders.
Devi Ahalya Bai Holkar, the queen of Indore (Madhya Pradesh) has set an excellent example of efficient administration. Her contribution to encourage free trade and the concept of the welfare state is very admirable. Her practices for maintaining integral nationality, her quick impartial justice were very effective. She led a very simple and selfless life, not utilizing anything from the royal treasury for her personal use.
Jijabai was not exactly a warrior herself but was the mother of Shivaji, one of the great protectors of the country and its religion. She was the guide who shaped his mind from his early years. She was the embodiment of self-respect. She nurtured her child to fight and bring back Hindu Rastra and became a constant source of inspiration to her heroic son.
Mira Bai is another name that many people will recognize for her saintly loving attachment to Lord Krishna. Her history is not so clear, but it is generally accepted that she was born in 1498 in a village near Merta about 40 to 50 miles northwest of Ajmer. She was the daughter of Ratna Singh, a Rajput noble and warrior who was much involved in fighting. Mira’s mother died when she was still very young. For these reasons she was sent to live with her grandfather, Rau Dudaj, who had taken the town from the Muslims to repopulate it with Hindus.
Mira was a devotee of Krishna from very young. One story is that even before her mother died, Mira begged for an image of Krishna from a holy man who had visited her home, which she received. She became so attached to the Deity that her mother would joke that Krishna would become her bridegroom. Mira’s family were all Vaishnavas and regular worship was a common event in their home. Later, Mira’s grandfather died and her uncle Viramji took responsibility of her.
In 1508 Rana Sangh, the great Rajput warrior, tried to arrange for the defense of the oncoming Muslims by marrying Dhan Bai of the Jodhpur branch of the House of Rathor, and thus establish alliances with other local rulers. He also arranged with Viram Dev for the marriage of Mira to his own heir, Prince Bhoja Raj, in 1516. This was supposed to secure an alliance of power to the north.
So in 1516 Mira was married to Bhoja Raj, but the marriage was childless. Mira was never interested in the marriage and was completely preoccupied with her devotion to Lord Krishna, who in her poems she refers to as her husband, and to herself as a virgin. It is said that Bhoja Raj was frustrated with her for a while but gradually understood the devotional nature of Mira and did not expect her to play the typical role as a wife. There is a temple that is said to have been built for Mira Bai at the Chittorgarh Fort where she would worship her Deity of Lord Krishna. You can still visit this temple if you ever go to this fort.
War was common place at the time and in one such battle Mira’s father, Ratna Singh, was killed. Even Mira’s uncle was attacked by an opposing family, and Mira was increasingly left alone to her own devices. This was most often based on her devotion to Krishna.
The marriage of Mira to help military alliances did not work out well for Mira because 15 years later, in 1531, when Rana Sangh had been dead for 3 years, Vikramajita (Vikramaditya), who was a mere boy of 14, acceded the Kingdom of Mewar and was most temperamental. [Rana Raymal reigned at Chittor 1473-1508. Rana Sangh was his son.] This put Mira in the spite of members of a rival family. Vikramajita did not like Mira and it is said at one point he locked her in a room with a guard. This did not have the desired effect, so he tried to poison her, but that also failed. She refers to this in her poems as the intervention of her Lord Krishna.
It is thought that Mira took refuge of her uncle Viram Dev in Merta until Viram was expelled from his own capital by the King of Jodhpur in 1538. From this point, the rest of Mira’s story is unclear. However, there are a few bits and pieces that seem to stand correctly. In the first half of the 17th century Mira is said to have visited Vrindavan. She may have been a wandering ascetic after Viram was forced from Merta. The poet of Priyadas who was at Vrindavan at the time says that Mira went to see Jiva Gosvami of Sri Chaitanya’s association, but Jiva refused to see her because she was a woman. She replied that she thought Lord Krishna was the only male in Vrindavana and all others were female gopis (cowherd maidservants). This led to Jiva Gosvami admitting her into see him. There is also an old temple in Vrindavana that is still dedicated to her presence there, and there is an altar with nice Krishna Deities you can see there.
Other histories say that she went to Dwaraka and lived there for a considerable time, worshiping at the temple there.
The death of Mira Bai in 1614 is also unclear, but it is said that in course of time, evil fell on the fort of Chittor where Mira’s family members lived, and where they began to think that the decline of the fortress was because of their persecution of a great devotee, namely Mira. The king sent a message begging for her to return, but she took shelter at the temple of Ranchor (Krishna) to pray, and it is said that her body melted into the Deity.
In any case, Mira’s poems remain an inspiration to many, and stir the heart toward devotion to Krishna in many ways. They also emphasize the means of developing attraction to Krishna’s form, pastimes and the chanting of His names, and exemplifies a love relationship with the Lord.
Vandaniya Lakshmibai Kelkar (Kamal as she was known as a little girl) is another woman who did a tremendous amount of work of India and its culture. She was born on July 6, 1905 to Bhaskar Rao Datey and her mother Yasodabai. Kamal grew up in a congenial environment which molded her into a sensitive and intelligent girl. She learned the qualities of serving others to assist in their needs from her aunt who continually worked to ease the plight of people affected by the plague. Kamal was also imbued with devotion to India and its culture, and developed an acute sense to organize and execute plans for its preservation. This was due to her mother who would read to the local ladies the national newspapers to enlighten them about the oppressions committed by the British. Though this was viewed by the British rulers as an act of treason, she asserted that as a free person and not a Government servant she had the right to read such papers.
In the meantime, Kamal was admitted to the only available convent school in town, but shortly left because of the Christian domination in it. She grew to be a lovely teenager but was determined not to marry anyone that demanded dowry. So she later married a widower, Purushottam Kelkar. He had two daughters from his first marriage. In the wedding, Kamal was given the name Lakshmi, meaning prosperity. In her marriage she took care of her two daughters, managed the household and in time became the mother of six sons.
Laxmi was not satisfied with mere household duties. She also had the spirit of patriotism, sacrifice and social reform. She was waiting for the chance to participate in the freedom movement. She attended meetings and listened to the top leaders of the movement and observed the effects of the Law Defiance Movement, along with the gradual change in the social psyche. She felt that obtaining political freedom was necessary, but that every citizen of free Bharat must come forward with a firm common will and total identification with the national interests, ancient glories, the Vedic culture and traditions of Bharat. But how to put this all together was the issue.
During this time some eminent personalties were striving for the education of women. Due to Western impact, Indian women were struggling for equal rights and economic freedom. Yet this led to progress of the individual but not for the society as a whole, and to self-centerdness. This presented the risk of women losing their commitment to love, sacrifice, service and other inborn qualities that glorify Hindu women. She felt that this attraction to the easy and showy way of western life that lead to this unnatural change in the attitude of women could also lead to the disintegration of family, which has been a primary and important factor in Vedic society for imparting the proper Vedic culture. So Lakshmibai was worried by this.
After attending discourses by Gandhi and hearing him advising the ladies to follow the life of Sita and Savitri, she studied the Ramayana and Mahabharata. She was attracted to the literature of Swami Vivekananda who professed that men and women are equally important constituents of the nation just like two wings of a bird. Lakshmibai came to the conclusion that women should boldly come forward and share the responsibility in solving the various problems of the society.
Lakshmibai lost her husband in 1923 and was left to look after eight children and a vast property. She faced the situation and still pursued her national commitments. Later, through her sons, she learned of an organization based on individual contact, mutual love and voluntary discipline called the Rashtriya Swayam Sevak Sangh. She thought that this type of organization would also work well for meeting the challenge among women. After meeting with Dr. Hedgewar about her ideas, she formed an organization for women called Rashtra Sevika Samiti on Vijaya Dashami Day, October 25, 1936. She sketched the working plan for the organization and shouldered all the responsibility herself.
As the organization grew, among its members Lakshmibai was called by her family nickname of Mousiji, but they prefixed it with Vandaniya to show their respect. Vandaniya Mousiji’s talent of nursing became especially useful, since she had to nurse a number of ailing minds from all kinds of weaknesses. It was difficult in those days for a socially and economically well placed young widow to get involved in work wherein prestige, honor and fame were never to be aspired for.
In the beginning she was also too shy to deliver speeches and often would ask a friend to do it for her. But through perseverance, firm will and relentless practice she slowly acquired most of the qualities to lead the organization.
The basic premise of the organization was the practice and promotion of Vedic culture in its relevance to modern times. She convinced many women to do the same by protecting it through the natural process of imparting the proper impressions at home, especially to her children. It is through this process that a mother’s power can build a strong character-based society.
To set the proper example, she introduced Devi Ashtabhuja, a symbol of the ideal Hindu woman with eight (ashta) specific qualities, such as chastity, boldness, affection, alertness, etc., that every woman should have. To organize and inspire the women, there were regular meetings. And to spread it, Mousiji started touring with what little transportation that could be arranged, traveling alone and with her small son, depending on God to avoid the risks. Gradually, the Samiti grew to a national organization, holding special gatherings in places like Mumbai.
Taking a special interest in education, the Bharatiya Shri Vidya Niketan was registered in 1983 to reorganize the system of girls’ education.
Having studied the Ramayana, Mahabharata and Bhagavata Purana, she gave discourses on them and inspired many women to inculcate the firm will, sanctity of thought and deed, and the self-protecting spiritual power like that of Sita and Draupadi. Her discourses became popular and large numbers of people would throng to hear her sweet voice and logical interpretation. She could convince many younger generations to look on Vedic culture as their national heritage and the divine personalities such as Sri Krishna, Sri Rama and Sita, and Savitri as national heroes and heroines.
Vandaniya Mousiji was very affectionate and loving as a mother but equally strict as a general in organizational matters. The individual attention that she showed on each sevika volunteer made them feel that Mousiji loved her the most.
Vandaniya Mousiji passed away on November 27, 1978 at the age of 73. The news spread quickly and many members came to pay their last homage to one of the recent architects of Modern Vedic Women. Through her foresightedness she had already made arrangements and had appointed leaders to continue the work without any confusion after her passing. The Samiti was then lead by Vandaniya Saraswatibai (Taiji Apte) until her passing on March 9, 1994. During her tenure the organization even spread outside India. The Samiti has since been lead under the loving and careful guidance of Vandaniya Ushatai Chati, who had been appointed by Taiji Apte herself. Thus, from the efforts of Mousiji, the women volunteers of the Samiti are continuing in the protection and promotion of Vedic culture.
* * *
There are many other women I could have included in this article, especially those who have been recognized as saints and guardians of Vedic culture, such as Anandamayi Ma who lived in Vrindavana. And presently there are such women as Mother Karunamayi and Mother Amritanandamayi Ma whose life stories are also inspirational, and who are traveling throughout the world and actively preserving and expanding the understanding of various aspects of the Vedic tradition. Because they offer the unconditional love of a spiritual mother for their spiritual children, their popularity is one of the reasons why thousands of people, especially women, have been attracted to such lady pioneers in spirituality. The world is like a desert craving for the rejuvenation and reciprocation of such love. Why would it not be attractive? Even now there are a host of other women that I have met, whether they are in the Rashtra Seviki Samiti, Iskcon, Vivekanandra Kendra, Arun Jyoti, Swadyaya, Kalyan Ashrama, or other organizations, all working in various ways in their humble service to God, as well as for the protection and advancement of Vedic culture.
So these are just a few stories of the examples of strong and influential women in Vedic culture, from the early Vedic times up to modern date, and how women can further their development in spirituality and reach a higher potential and contribution to society.
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January 4, 2009 at 12:21 am
You all here are promoting astrology, etc… which is magick forbidden in Bible. More here: http : / / www . farsinet . com / truth / index . html You are doing very bad being wizards and witches worshipping satan by accepting his magick and sorcery in your lives as already did Alisteir Crowley and Anton Shandor la Vey, instead of being Catholic people worshipping Catholic God. All forms of magick and sorcery are grave sins requiring full repentance. You are spiritually dead. Accept Jesus Christ in His Catholic Church and become spiritually alive again!
January 4, 2009 at 1:32 am
“nirjhar mukhopadhyay” said above that:
“AUM/OM, the magical, repeated sound used in Yoga”
You declared in this way that you are wizards/witches, by using linguomancy – magickal superstition that certain linguistical root “aum”/”om” descended from Divine Catholic Proto-Indo-European Language, (in this case its root *au- = “that” and its inanimate ending -m, used as confirmation in sentence “that really is”) has supposedly something to do with magick, while “aum”/”om” really has nothing to with magick at all. In this way you are assigning “aum”/”om” that is confused descendant of unconfused Proto-Indo-European *au- to evil side, while “aum”/”om” descended from good PIE side.
January 5, 2009 at 9:58 am
READ THIS AND GET SOME GYAN CAT(H)OLIC:
Hindu Symbols and Symbolisms
- Omkar, Swastika, the Saffron Colour and Purna-kumbha
India is a land of innumerable beliefs, rituals and religious symbols. These beliefs and symbols are highly respected and revered.
The origin of the syllable OM is lost in the misty past. Its not being specific to any one country or civilization is indicative of its being an universally perceptible sound for the human race. This reason for this universal perceptibility possibly lies in the fact that AAAH is the most natural sound that issues from the human larynx. This is evident when a man cries out naturally in extreme pain, anger or fear. When emotions reach an extreme pitch the articulate sounds evolved by man are not the ones that are heard, but the syllable natural to man which is AAAH.
As a devout people we normally do not go into the meaning and interpretation of our many beliefs. It is sufficient for most of us to know that they are part of the heritage handed down to us by our ancestors and in deference to tradition it becomes our duty to scrupulously and meticulously adhere to them. But by doing things without knowing the meaning behind them do we not deprive ourselves of an insight into our heritage?
Culture can be well appreciated and adapted to changing times if the meaning behind its different constituents is well understood. To develop this understanding one has to look upon all human actions as having originated in human society. While answers to all questions cannot be obtained, the acceptance of this approach at least opens the door to inquiry into the circumstances which gave rise to our revered traditions.
An attempt to interpret our religious beliefs and symbols is a challenging task. Many of these issues defy analysis and call for a judicious combination of the study of the social environment, etymology, aesthetics and philosophy. As far as aesthetics and philosophy go there exists a good deal of subjectivism and value judgement. While talking about etymology and the social environment we are on relatively firmer ground. In this chapter we have taken a set of symbols, beliefs and rituals and have attempted to examine the possible meaning behind them and the reasons which could lie behind their origin. The first religious symbol we take up is that of Om or Omkar.
OM or Omkar
The syllable OM is quite familiar to a Hindu. It occurs in every prayer. Invocation to most gods begin with this syllable. For instance we have Om Namaha Shivaya, Hari Om, Om Shanti etc. OM is also pronounced as AUM.
Is OM present in Christianity as ‘Amen’ and in Islam as ‘Amin’?
This term occurs in various ancient and modern civilizations. It exists Hinduism, Christianity and Islam.
In Arabic the first alphabet is pronounced as aliph. In Greek it is alpha, in the Roman script it is A. Thus in many languages the first letter in the alphabet has the syllable A, with which the word AUM or OM begins. In the Greek alphabet the last letter is Omega which comes very close to OM. Thus the significance of the syllable OM as the beginning and end finds a parallel in many of the scripts associated with ancient languages.
The different ways in which Omkar is depicted. The syllable OM is not specific to Indian culture. It has religious significance in other religions also. The word Amen used among Christians at the end of a prayer is also said to be derived from the the syllable OM. Although OM is not given any specific definition and is considered to be a cosmic sound, a primordial sound, the totality of all sounds etc., Amen is said to mean ‘May it be so’.
In Arabic a similar term ‘Amin’ has a religious significance.
This indicates some link between the various symbols and perhaps a common origin. Even in the English language the syllable °m occurs in words having a similar meaning. for instance; Omniscience means infinite knowledge, Omnipotent means having infinite powers Omnivorous means eating or reading every thing. This syllable also occurs in words such as Omen which means a sign of something that is to occur in future, Ombudsman means a person having authority to pronounce a verdict. Thus Om is also used to signify divinity and authority.
The syllable OM is not specific to Indian culture. It has religious significance in other religions also. The word Amen used among Christians at the end of a prayer is also said to be derived from the the syllable OM. Although OM is not given any specific definition and is considered to be a cosmic sound, a primordial sound, the totality of all sounds etc., Amen is said to mean ‘May it be so’.
In Arabic a similar term ‘Amin’ has a religious significance.
This is believed to be the original depiction of the syllable OM. We can see how similar it is to the Englisg (Latin) letter ‘M’ as also to the greek letter ‘Omega’.
Thus the origin of the syllable OM is lost in the misty past. Its not being specific to any one country or civilization is indicative of its being an universally perceptible sound for the human race. This reason for this universal perceptibility possibly lies in the fact that AAAH is the most natural sound that issues from the human larynx. This is evident when a man cries out naturally in extreme pain, anger or fear. When emotions reach an extreme pitch the articulate sounds evolved by man are not the ones that are heard, but the syllable natural to man which is AAAH.
This sound it can be said would have been associated with man, in absence of articulate speech, as are the various sounds of barking, meowing, bellowing that we associate with different animals. This perhaps is the reason why the syllable beginning with the letter ‘A’ is the first one in most alphabets. And this perhaps is also the reason for the Deification of the syllable AUM or OM.
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Swastika
The next religious symbol which is also revered by Hindu and ranks second only to OM is the Swastika. Today, the Swastika is know the world over not as a religious symbolism of the Hindus but as the Nazi emblem. Hitler’s use of the Swastika on the flag of National-socialist Germany has besmirched the Swastika. But the Swastika continues to hold a religious significance for the Hindus. Like OM, the origins of Swastika are lost in the misty realms of the past and they can only be guessed by piecing together of the surviving clues.
Unlike OM, the Swastika is not a syllable or a letter. It appears to be decorative charecter which could have originated in a hieroglyphic (pictorial) script.
The various ways in which the Swatika is depicted.
is also revered by Hindu and ranks second only to OM is the Swastika. Today, the Swastika is know the world over not as a religious symbolism of the Hindus but as the Nazi emblem. Hitler’s use of the Swastika on the flag of National-socialist Germany has besmirched the Swastika. But the Swastika continues to hold a religious significance for the Hindus. Like OM, the origins of Swastika are lost in the misty realms of the past and they can only be guessed by piecing together of the surviving clues.
The word Swastika is normally believed to be an amalgam of the words Su and Asati. Su means ‘good’ and Asati meant ‘to exist’.
As per Sanskrit grammer the words Su and Asati when amalgamated into one word become Swasti (as in the case of Su and Aaatam becoming Swagatam meaning welcome). If this derivation of the word Swastika is true, then the literal meaning of the term Swastika would be ‘let good-prevail’.
There exist many types of signs which stand for the Swastika. Even the standard version has two forms the one facing the right also called the symbol of- the right hand path and the one facing the left called the symbol of the lefthand path. These two Swastikas are also considered to represent the male and female. There is also a Swastika which is an amalgam of these two types.
Did the Swastika originate as blueprint for a fort called Su Vastu?
In the conventional type of a fort, the fall of one of the gates to the attacking army would lead to the Enemy’s pouring into the fort and lead to massacre or capture of all or most of its inhabitants. But under the Swastika grids fall of one of the four gates could still keep, at least three-fourths of the fort safe. The understanding of the Swastika as a blueprint for a fort can also be etymologically corroborated. In Sanskrit, Vasa means to inhabit and Vastu means habitation. While Su means good. The word Swastika might be an amalgam of the terms ‘Su’ and ‘Vastu’ pronounced as as ‘Swastu’) meaning ‘a good habitation’.
All these forms present the Swastika to us as if it were only a symbol. But it is quite possible that Swastika was an object which played an important role in the real lives of people. Some scholars have said that in ancient times forst were builtin the shape of a grid resembling the Swastika, for defensive purposes. Under such an arrangement it was difficult for an enemy to storm into all parts of the fort simultaneously.
Did the Swastika originate as blueprint for a fort called Su Vastu?
In the conventional type of a fort, the fall of one of the gates to the attacking army would lead to the Enemy’s pouring into the fort and lead to massacre or capture of all or most of its inhabitants. But under the Swastika grids fall of one of the four gates could still keep, at least three-fourths of the fort safe.
The understanding of the Swastika as a blueprint for a fort can also be etymologically corroborated. In Sanskrit, Vasa means to inhabit and Vastu means habitation. While Su means good. The word Swastika might be an amalgam of the terms ‘Su’ and ‘Vastu’ pronounced as as ‘Swastu’) meaning ‘a good habitation’.
Incidentally in Sanskrit the term Swasta means calm or peaceful. Thus the term and concept of Swastika might as well be a derivation of the name of a defensive structure which due to its impregnable character was looked upon as a good habitation.
That this form of a defensive arrangement was a fact is also corroborated by the military practice of Chakra-vyuha used during ancient times. In the Chakra-vyuha, the army was arranged in the form of a circular grid which an enemy army was supposed to break. This was one of the techniques used during the Mahabharata war in which Arjuna’s son Abhimanyu was killed. That the Chakra-vyuha was an effective form of defense and it was very diffciult to break it is corroborated by the episode of Abhimanyu in the Mahabharata. Briefly, this episode is as follows:
The clue that the Grid like the Swastika as a defensive arrangement was a fact is also corroborated by the military practice of Chakra-vyuha used during ancient times. In the Chakra-vyuha, the army was arranged in the form of a circular grid which an enemy army was supposed to break. This was one of the techniques used during the Mahabharata war in which Arjuna’s son Abhimanyu was killed. That the Chakra-vyuha was an effective form of defense and it was very diffciult to break it is corroborated by the episode of Abhimanyu in the Mahabharata.
When Abhimanyu was on the family way, Sri Krishna used to take Subhadra (Abhimanyu’s mother) on excursions. To humour her, Krishna used to relate many of his adventures to the pregnant Subhadra. On one such excursion Krishna was narrating his experience with the technique of Chakra-vyuha and how step by step the various circles could be penerated. It seems that Subhadra did not find this topic interesting enough for she soon went into a slumber. But someone else was interested in Sri Krishna’s narration and that was the yet to be born Abhimanyu.
While Subhadra dozed off, Abhimanyu continued to carefully follow Srl Krishna’s narrative of the Chakra-vyuha. But after talking for sometime and not receiving any response from Subhadra, Sri Krishna turned back and saw that Subhadra was savouring a sweet nap. Sri Krishna who had at that time come upto the seventh step of the Chakra-vyuha, gave up his narration and returned with Subhadra to the palace.
The unfortunate Abimanyu could never obtain the technique of breaking all the circles in the chakra-vyuha, but whatever he had heard Sri Krishna say, he carefully preserved in his memory. He grew up to be a brave handsome young man. Many years later when during the Mahabharata war the Kavravas set up a Chakar-vyuha and challenged the Pandavas to come forward and break it, none of the Pandavas knew the technique of doing so. At that Juncture to save the honour of the Pandavas, Abhimanyu came forward and offerred his services for the task of breaking the chakra-vyuha. Despite his incomplete knowledge of the technique he entered tne grid and overcame one circle after another till he come to the seventh one for the breaking of which he had no knowledge. Brave and ambitious es he was he fought valiantly in the unequal struggle but in vain. His strength and bravery proved no match against the skillfully laid out maze on warriors fighting whom, he met his end.
Similarly the Swastika could also have originated as a defensive structure which due to its vast practical utility was considered powerful and was sanctified.
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Saffron – the auspicous colour for Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains
The saffron colour is considered auspicious by Hindus. This colour also has a special significance to the Buddhists, Jains and Sikhs. Among the Sikhs it is considered to be a militant colour signifying a fight against injustice. Hindus and Sikhs have a saffron coloured triangular flag as their religious standard. This flag is seen flying atop Hindus temples and Gurudwaras.
This colour also has a special significance to the Buddhists, Jains and Sikhs. Among the Sikhs it is considered to be a militant colour signifying a fight against injustice. Hindus and Sikhs have a saffron coloured triangular flag as their religious standard.
Buddhist bhikkus (monks living upon alms) always where saffron coloured robes. But among the Hindus this colour is most prominently visible in their flag, robes, the Tilaka (mark applied on the forehead), statues of Hindu Gods are daubed with saffron paste. In the diverse and multifaceted Hindu religion, the saffron colour is one of the few elements that commands a universal acceptance among Hindus. The fact that this colour is regarded as sacred even by the offspring Buddhist and Sikh religions indicates that this colour must have obtained a religious significance before they came into being.
Jain Munis
Jain Munis and Buddhist Bhikkus (monks living upon alms) always where saffron coloured robes. But among the Hindus this colour is most prominently visible in their flag, robes, the Tilaka (mark applied on the forehead), statues of Hindu Gods are daubed with saffron paste. In the diverse and multifaceted Hindu religion, the saffron colour is one of the few elements that commands a universal acceptance among Hindus. The fact that this colour is regarded as sacred even by the offspring Jain, Buddhist and Sikh religions indicates that this colour must have obtained a religious significance before they came into being.
Thus, Hinduism is the birthplace of the idea that the saffron colour is an auspicious one. The origin of this attitude lies in the hazy past when pigments were few and were highly prized. Plants and minerals have generally been the source for deriving pigments. The saffron pigment is traditionally derived from the saffron plant (Autumn crocus) which is called Keshar from which the saffron colour derives one of its names – Keshari. This plant is grown in the sub-Himalayan regions and is very rare. This rarity could have been a reason for this particular colour to be highly valued and this along with its golden hue raised it to the status of being a holy colour. That the golden colour of the precious yellow metal had a special status apart from the high monetary value attached to it is evident from the term Suvarna that is used to describe it. Suvarna means the good colour (Su=good, varna=colour). This word was normally used to refer to gold rather than the other word Hiranya (derived possibly as an adjective of Harina which means a deer – an animal having a golden-brown sheen). Among other words used to describe the saffron colour are Bhagva and Naranga. The term Bhagva could have been derived from the word Bhagvan (meaning God) to identify this colour as the one associated with God. Incidentally in Sanskrit the term for good fortune is Bhagya which also is indicative of the auspicious significance attached to this colour.
The “Sacred Colour” concept in Different Cultures
The sanctification of a particular colour is not peculiar to Hinduism. In other religions also this attitude is prevalent. For instance Muslims look upon Green colour as their religious standard.. Among present day Christians (originally among the Romans), the purple colour was regarded as a colour of divinity and royalty.
Green Colour in Islam
It would be interesting to recall how the green colour acquired a special significance among the Muslims.
A Mosque with the ubiquitous Green Colour.
Green as the colour of special significance must antedate the birth of Islam. Its special significance originated from the critical role which an oasis played in the lives of the Arabs. Hence the colour which stood for an oasis must have been immortalized in their consciousness. For the desert nomads, a green peck of an oasis in the vast water-starved desert must have been synonymous with hope, survival and pleasure. Islam which became the religion of Arabs in the 6th century derives almost everything from their culture. Islamic folklore and beliefs are largely born out of the culture of the Arabs. Hence the significance of the green colour to the peoples whom the Arabs engulfed in their great Jehad
The Arabs whose homeland is the birthplace of Islam is a vast desert-land. For these desert nomads the appearance of a green patch on the horizon meant an oasis and springs (sources of water) which is the life-blood for human settlement. Green as the colour of special significance must antedate the birth of Islam. Its special significance originated from the critical role of oasis played in the lives of the Arabs that the colour which stood for it must have been immortalized in their consciousness.
For the desert nomads, a green peck of an oasis in the vast water-starved desert must have been synonymous with hope, survival and pleasure. Islam which became the religion of Arabs in the 6th century derives almost everything from their culture. Islamic folklore and beliefs are largely born out of the culture of the Arabs. Hence the significance of the green colour to the peoples whom the Arabs engulfed in their great Jehad.
Purnakumbha
Purnakumbha literally means a “full pitcher” (Purna = full, Kumbha = pitcher). The Purnakumbha is a pitcher full of water, with fresh leaves of the mango tree and a coconut (Sriphala) placed on the top. The Purnakumbha is an object symbolizing God and is regularly used during different religious rites. One instance of the Purnakumbha itself used as an object of worship is the Satyanarayana Puja or the worship of Lord Satyanarayana. The water in the jar is said to be the divine essence. Water has been an object of worship since a very early age among the Hindus.
Purnakumbha literally means a “full pitcher” (Purna = full, Kumbha = pitcher). The Purnakumbha is a pitcher full of water, with fresh leaves of the mango tree and a coconut (Sriphala) placed on the top. The Purnakumbha is an object symbolizing God and is regularly used during different religious rites. One instance of the Purnakumbha itself used as an object of worship is the Satyanarayana Puja or the worship of Lord Satyanarayana.
The five forces of nature – Pancha-Mahabhoota
The five forces of nature Pancha-Mahabhoota which were the first to be worshipped included water. Graphically, water is depicted by a circle in the Pancha-Mahabhootas. This circle seems to be a symbolism for fullness. Water plays an important role even today in Hindu religious rites. During all purificatory rites, water is sprinkled on the object to be purified. Before starting his meal a Hindu sprinkles water around the the banana leaf from which a meal is traditionally eaten. In ancient times before coronation a king was sprinkled with water so as to ensure an auspicious beginning to his reign. A Kumbha called the Ghata was used during solemn occasions especially during marriages to fix the auspicious time for performing the ceremony. ritual a smaller vessel with a small hole at its bottom was floated in a larger vessel full of water. The smaller vessel was gradually filled up with water flowing in through the hole and after it was full to the brim the smaller vessel would sink into the larger one. The auspicious moment decided in this manner with a Ghata was called Ghataka.
The Pancha-mahabhootas (five forces of nature) included (depicted graphically from below) earth, water, fire, air and ether (sky).
The Kumbha Mela
The Kumbha-Mela ceremony that is observed at selected places seems to be having a link with the concept of Purnakumbha. The Kumbha-Mela ceremony is a public religious event which occurs after a lapse of few years. A notable feature of the Kumbha-Mela is that it cannot be observed everywhere even at the selected time. It can be observed only at the few select places. And these select places which are on the banks of rivers like Hardwar and Prayag (Allahabad) on the banks of the Ganga, Ujjain at the banks of the Kshipra, or Nashik on the banks of the Godavari are places where the Kumbh Mela is held periodically.
The Kumbha-Mela ceremony that is observed at selected places seems to be having a link with the concept of Purnakumbha. The Kumbha-Mela ceremony is a public religious event which occurs after a lapse of few years. A notable feature of the Kumbha-Mela is that it cannot be observed everywhere even at the selected time. It can be observed only at the few select places. And these select places which are on the banks of rivers like Hardwar and Prayag (Allahabad) on the banks of the Ganga, Ujjain at the banks of the Kshipra, or Nashik on the banks of the Godavari are places where the Kumbh Mela is held periodically.
The Purna Kumbha Mela and the Ardha Kumbha Mela
The Kumbha-Mela is also of two types, one on the occasion of Purna-Kumbha (the full pitcher) and the other on the occasion of Ardha Kumbha (the half pitcher).
The Sri-Phala – Coconut
The coconut (Sriphala) which is used in the making of a Purna-Kumbha is also an independent object of worship. A coconut alone is also used to symbolize ‘God’ While worshipping any deity, A coconut is normally an item to be offered along with flowers and incense sticks, etc. But the coconut has a special significance as is evident from the word Sriphala meaning God’s fruit. Other similar objects which also are used to symbolize divinity are the betel leaf and the areca-nut (Supari) also called betel nut as it is chewed along with the betel leaf. These items which are the objects of worship have one common element, all of them have a quality of mild intoxication. Juice tapped from a coconut tree and the coconut milk is popularly used in the making of fermented (mildily alcoholic) beverages like Neera.
Some objects which also are used to symbolize divinity are the betel leaf and the areca-nut (Supari) also called betel nut as it is chewed along with the betel leaf. These items which are the objects of worship have one common element, all of them have a quality of mild intoxication.
While this inference may sound incredible, an incidental fact that should be noted is the high value attached to alcoholic drinks like Soma and Sura by Aryans which can be seen in the references to these drinks in Vedic literature. For the hardy war-like Aryans of the Vedic period who lived a nomadic life in the wintry northern regions, such intoxicating drinks had a special significance. It may not be purely accidental that the items which later became objects of worship included those that had a quality of mild intoxication.
January 5, 2009 at 2:39 pm
What you all forgot in misty realms of the past is revealed by Catholic God here: http : / / www . all-jesus.com / scriptures / bible1-4.htm , including fact that Proto-Indo-European is mother tongue of humanity (first pure=nearly-unconfused descendants of fully-unconfused Adamic PIE were Bactrian, Zend and Indian descendants)
“that really is” means rougly the same as “may it be so”, thus PIE root *au- = “that” and its inanimate ending -m, used as confirmation in sentence “that really is” is Adamic PIE ancestor of sanskrit descendant aum/om.
Adamic PIE *su- + PIE *es- = descendant Sanskrit su + asati = good + be cannot be applied to wars and their tools such as militarist structures like Festung Wolfenstein, because militarism is evil as murdering between descendants of Adam and Eve, that were along with their Edenic parents originally Proto-Indo-European.
Hindu “gods” = statues from wood, stone and metal have no conscious souls and are not even pseudo-conscious self-movable robots, while Catholic God is fully Conscious and fully Omnipotent. If we do not worship robots, then worspipping of “gods” that has much less capabilities than simplest humanoid robot is unlogical. Omnipotent Catholic God is infinitely more interesting that statue without any operational capabilities. With Catholic God you can converse bidirectionally: (letter color differentiates talking of Catholic God and talking of Louise Starr Tomkiel) http : / / www . giftstor . org / tomkiel03thrd . htm, while to statue you can only talk as elder to picture, without any answer from that picture.
January 6, 2009 at 10:05 am
IN HINDUISM GOD EXISTS IN EVERY MATTER OF THIS UNIVERS.
January 6, 2009 at 10:14 am
HINDU GODS MEANING IS OUT OF YOUR INTELLIGENCE LIKE HITCHCOCKS MASTERPIECE THE BIRDS.
January 6, 2009 at 10:28 am
listen jesus was a guy just like us but he was new to your world as his thoughts were free of your rotting jewism,abrahaism etc.
January 6, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Adamic=Proto-Indo-European, Noahic, Abrahamic Mosaic and Catholic stages of God’s Faith has nothing to do with sinful rotting nor sinful wormwood. Instead, your idols are sinfully rotting and are made from sinful wormwood because they are made/worshipped as icons of sins under hell’s exclusive supervision – I know their Lucifer = 666 meaning, these idols are falsely, blasphemously and arogantly placed above Most Holy Trinity = 333 by fictional/figmental/imaginational multiplication by two above Catholic God.
Jesus – Catholic Most Holy Trinity Incarnated continues previous stages of His Holy Faith such as Adamic, Noahic, Abrahamic and Mosaic into Catholicism. He not discarded nor denied them. – only cognate primordialization of Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and too Sanskrit, Persian, Bactrian etc… to PIE protoforms apply. In Matthew Gospel Jesus says, “Do not think I have come to abolish the law and the prophets. I have come, not to abolish them, but to fulfill them.”
Catholic Most Holy God is consisted concentrically from:
Sphere=Father Person consisted from His Round (big/less dense) Core and His Infinitely Extended (less dense) Light outside His Core in all directions at once.
Sphere=Son Person consisted from His Round (middle/mid dense) Core and His Infinitely Extended (mid dense) Light outside His Core in all directions at once.
Sphere=Spirit Person consisted from His Round (small/most dense) Core and His Infinitely Extended (most dense) Light outside His Core in all directions at once.
that are lite and are sharing/interpenetrating Their Volumes.
http : / / en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Image : Holy _ Trinity _ scheme . svg
http : / / en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Image : Holy _ Trinity _ interpenetration . png
God’s Core is surrounded by angels in Heaven outside His Core but inside His Infinitely Extended Light outside His Core, and rest of creation is analogously swimming inside God’s Infinitely Extended Light outside His Core in all directions at once. By This Omnipresence God is present in all Eucharists, Hosts, Father/Son/Spirit (human/sheepy/dovy) Bodies treated by Him as His Own.
Rest of things (¡they are not Self-Existent God, but are only sustained by God!) not treated nor approved by God as His Bodies (wholes and parts), such as we all-His creations, are swimming inside God’s Infinitely Extended Light outside His Core in all directions at once. Universe is only small sand grain in comparison to Catholic God which has infinite diameter as sum of Core and Light diameters.
Your concept of God is falsified distortion of Catholic explanation given by me to you.
January 7, 2009 at 9:45 am
SHORT INFO ABOUT A REAL GOD LIKE PERSON: rowsing thru the threads of this secn., I’m surprised tat so far there has been none abt Swami Vivekananda, possibly the greatest epitome of spiritual and cultural guidance India has ever seen. He expounded the religious and cultural aspects of India to the West at a time when the contact between them & us was very little, and all tat they knew abt India until then was wat had projected us in a negative light.
It was he who had revived the dormant glory and understanding of Hinduism and Indian culture (esp. the Vedanta philosophy), more to the West than to Indians, depsite his short life. He was looked upon as the guiding light not just for religion/spirituality but also for value-based and character-building education and even for the empowerment of women (without having them break down their idealistic image) in our country.
Born on 12th January 1863, in the Datta family of Calcutta and originally named Narendranath, he got a good education and cultural training under them, alongside embracing the agnostic philosophies of the Western mind along with the worship of science.
At the same time, vehement in his desire for spiritual perfection and to know the truth about God, he questioned people of holy reputation of the time, asking them if they had seen God. In 1882, he found such a person in Sri Ramakrishna, who became his master, allayed his doubts and gave him God vision. Thus the next four and a half years- until the mahasamadhi of Sri Ramakrishna- were marked b turbulence and turmoil, the direct result of the perfect Master transforming the perfect disciple into a sage, thus christening him as Vivekananda, ie., one who has ‘Viveka’, the power to discriminate between the good & bad/right & wrong, with authority to teach and reform.
After Sri Ramakrishna’s death, Vivekananda renounced the world and with the help of his young co-disciples, founded a Math (monastery) in his guru’s name at Barangore (Calcutta) in 1886. Setting out on a piligrimage, he criss-crossed India as a wandering monk, finally arriving at Kanyakumari, the southernmost tip of the Indian soil, during December 1892. There, while meditating on the last piece of Indian rock at sea, he thought of India, its glorious history and its current degeneration, alongwith ways of regenration. And the mission of his life was quickly revealed to him. His mounting compassion for India’s people quickly drove him to seek their material help from the West.
Accepting an opportunity to represent Hinduism at Chicago’s Parliament of Religions, Vivekananda set sail for America on 31st May 1893. Brushing aside all suspicion and contradiction from local sceptics as well as religious racists, apart from avoiding the illusion of materialism in the Western way of life, enthralled his audience beyond doubt and created history at the World Parliament of Religions in Sepetmber the same year, not only succeeding in expounding the greatness of India’s philosophy/culture but also winning instant followers in America and a ready forum for his spiritual teaching.
For three years he spread the Vedanta philosophy and religion in America and England and then returned to India via Colombo in January 1897.
Exhorting his nation to spiritual greatness, during the next five years, he wakened India to a new national consciousness. He had rightly proclaimed that India needs the Western science combined with our own philosophy to develop in the true sense. He formally established the Ramakrishna Math and Mission at Belur in 1899. He then visited the West again during 1899-1900
He died on 4the July 1902, after a second, much shorter sojourn in the West, although he had shortly before prophesised that even in the future, long after him, an equally distinguished saint would arise, reviving once again, the declining glory and power of the spirit by which India would rise, higher than before!
With Swami Vivekananda there could be no comparison with anyone. He was a class by himself, a radiant being who had descended from another world, from a higher spehere for a definite purpose.
_________________
Kalakkara’ perusu!! Soober! :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp_2FNXLNlw
Last edited by Lambretta on Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total.
January 7, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Swami Vivekananda – tiny unipersonal ball soul, which as all other human souls has very small diameter means NOTHING in comparison to Catholic Tripersonal God which has infinite total diameter = finite, but very big Core diameter + infinite Light diameter.
January 7, 2009 at 6:15 pm
“Kalakkara perusu!! Soober!” equals to “Sieg Heil!! Heilsa!”
Another chauvinist Reich is dreaming in your mind? YOU FASCISTS!!!
January 7, 2009 at 6:36 pm
卐 + 卍 = ⊞ = Windows XP/Windows Vista = FASCIST ACTIVATION
January 8, 2009 at 9:29 am
Swami Vivekananda described the people of India as children of immortality. (Amritasya Putraha). These are the lines from the Upanishads. The soul is not a sinner. It is a spark of the universal divinity. So there is no question of liberating sinners because sin does not exist in the first place. As for the so called “Vyabichar”, it is simple logic to say that the world would stop without sex. Sex is nothing but nature’s mechanism to ensure that individuals reproduce. In fact, we have a deity for sex (Kamadeva or Cupid) in Hinduism. Per se, sex is natural. However, Victorian sensibilities ensure that a lot of guilt is associated with it.
January 8, 2009 at 9:35 am
HARD TRUTH FOR CHRISTIANS:
“Nothing in Christianity is original. The pre-Christian god Mithras – called the Son of God and the Light of the World – was born on December 25, died, was buried in a rock tomb, and then resurrected in three days. By the way, December 25 was also the birthday of Osiris, Adonis, and Dionysus. The newborn Krishna was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh.” – The Da Vinci Code
The above passage from the Da Vinci Code contains several allegations that Christianity stole from, borrowed from, or was influenced by, various pagan beliefs, concepts and rituals. These claims can be proven to be false. Here are five ways to evaluate these claims, and other like them:
1. First, consider whether an allegation, even if it were true, would actually matter.
Some allegations are inconsequential. For example, the Da Vinci Code implies that Christians stole the practice of celebrating Dec. 25 from pagans. Even if this were true, it wouldn’t matter, because the tradition of celebrating Christmas has not changed the theology of Christianity. In fact, the reverse is true: The theology of Christianity changed the traditions involving Dec. 25.
2. Does the allegation include an attribution, citation or source?
Often, there are no historical sources to support many allegations. For example, in regards to the novel’s claims, as shown at the top of this page: “Mithraic studies do not find any attribution of the titles ‘Son of God’ or ‘Light of the World,’ as Brown claims. There is also no mention of a death-resurrection motif in Mithraic mythology. … There is not a single story in actual Hindu mythology of Krishna being presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh at his birth.” – de-coding Da Vinci: The facts behind the fiction of The Da Vinci Code, by Amy Welborn.
3. Does the allegation involve a meaningful similarity between paganism and Christianity?
Some scholars, including Farrell Till, editor of the Skeptical Review, claim that Osiris, an ancient Egyptian god, died and was resurrected, and had thousands of believers, long before the time of Jesus. The implication is that the New Testament writers could have stolen the idea of a resurrected savior from paganism. But the details of Osiris’ death and “resurrection” are very different from Christianity. Osiris was murdered by his brother, divided up into 14 pieces and scattered. His wife re-assembled him and he was revived, but only within the realm of the netherworld.
4. If there is a similar belief in paganism and Christianity, who had it first?
Consider this example. Hinduism is older than Christianity? True. Hinduism has a belief in a divine trinity? True. Therefore Christianity stole – or could have stolen – the idea of a divine trinity from Hinduism? False. Within the Hindu religion, there is something called a Trimurti, which refers to a relationship between three Hindu deities. This “trinity” has been carelessly been compared to Christianity’s Holy Trinity. In fact, an entry in an online encyclopedia, at wikipedia.org, formerly stated that Christianity stole the idea from Hinduism. But, the Trimurti didn’t exist until many centuries after the establishment of Christianity. (See, for example, Catholic scholar J.P. Arendzen’s article at http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9207clas.asp).
5. And, most importantly, can the Christian belief be traced back to the Old Testament?
If a Christian belief, whether it involves the nature of sin or salvation, or a specific event in the life of Jesus, can be traced back to the Old Testament, then there is no need to suspect or conclude that it was “borrowed” from a pagan source. With that in mind, try finding a single detail in the New Testament that doesn’t have roots in the Old Testament.
January 8, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Every human soul because of original sin is sinner except Catholic God=Jesus Christ and Mary, because consciousness and will capable of sinning are in soul, while body is only external layer to human soul.
Jesuism Christianism=Catholicism is continuation of Mosaism=Jewism, which is continuation of Abrahamism, which is continuation of Noahism, which is continuation of Adamism, having in total 6000 years back to creation of Adam and Eve. Earlier, 7 000 000 years back to creation of Universe, on Earth were only animals. Your pagan religions are younger than that and stolen all Catholic ideas. Remember that satan is monkey of Catholic God, and makes counterfeit pseudo-equivalents to deceive humans from Catholic God.
Originally before original sin humans were planned to be multiplied by direct creating by God, thus evil sex sex sex = evil six six six = evil 666 is nothing more than side effect of original sin.
Catholic Most Holy Trinity (Trispherical/Triconcentrical) has NOTHING to do with “staunch filthy rotting Trimurti of Allida, Akabor and Lucifer”=”satanic forefathers of heretic protestantism” – see Exorcisms of Emily Rose.
January 9, 2009 at 9:35 am
ONLY ONE WORD IDEAL FOR YOU’SUCKKER’.
January 9, 2009 at 10:33 am
protestantism is the original christianity of jesus rather than destructive and idiot catholicism.
January 9, 2009 at 8:28 pm
http : / / warningsfrombeyond . vilabol . uol . com . br
Protestantism began with Martin Luther about 500 years ago as direct satanic agenda. Earlier than about 500 years ago protestantism didn’t ever existed:
“E: In the name of the Most Holy Trinity, of the Immaculate Conception, of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, of the holy Curé of Ars and of Catherine Emmerich, continue, say what you have to say!
Al: There has never been such confusion as there is now. There was indeed a very great crisis at the time of the Reformation, but then it was more of a split. The good remained on the good side and the others simply moved over to Protestantism. But the Lutherans (of that time) were still better than the bad Catholics (of today). Then it was a terrible liability for the Church, but now everything is in a much more deadly situation. Then, the majority of people, even among the protestants, were aware when they had done wrong.
Then they were divided into three groups – Luther, Calvin, Zwingle – they soon realised that this could not be the true Church in so far as these three men were in conflict. Then they saw clearly that it was a crisis for Catholicism. But they also saw that the good were at least united. They would then have been willing to come back, at all events Luther would have, but it was too late. We (he points downward) had him too tightly hemmed in by then.
E: Say, in the name of…, what you still have to say, Allida!
Al: It was we who influenced Luther, and the Old One (Lucifer) who influenced Zwingle. It was necessary for the Old One to take Zwingle in hand until he had risen up like a hothouse plant that flourishes like a weed. This weed doesn’t even need much rain. It is well known that evil always flourishes and grows tall much more quickly than good. In some way or another, it multiplies rapidly and is difficult to cut back.
Good is always harder and more difficult; it does not grow up so readily; and even when it has flourished, and the person concerned believes that it has already reached a good height, it can suddenly come tumbling down from half-way up the mountain and be obliged to begin again from zero. Evil, on the other hand, flourishes and multiplies like weeds, without any setbacks. It flourishes, it grows upward, and nobody can stop it.
Corruption is like a sinister mountain which obscures everything, makes everything reek, spreads darkness over everything, infects everything, when evil is once there, it is like an epidemic which carries off throngs of people. Virtue, on the contrary, has much more difficulty flourishing. It is not so easy, not so attractive, not so widespread. We do not want to say that! How we have been forced to say that! (He growls furiously)”
I see from current Indian talking thread, that satanism, illuminatism, masonism, hinduism, buddhism and protestantism are forming unholy diabolic “entente cordiale” which is wholly anti-Catholic, as is already confirmed in above “The Masonic Plan
for the destruction of the Catholic Church”.
True Real Catholicism is the best, false miau-cat protestantism is the worst!
January 9, 2009 at 8:38 pm
ONLY ONE SENTENCE IDEAL FOR YOU ARYAN NAZIST “SUCKER OF COW TITS”.
January 9, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Catholicism is the original Christianity of God rather than destructive and idiot Protestantism.
January 9, 2009 at 8:43 pm
ARYAN FASCIST, ANTIFA IS IN NEIGHBORHOOD, BEWARE!
January 9, 2009 at 9:23 pm
卐卐卐卍卐卐卐卐卍
卐卐卍卐卐卐卐卍卐
卐卍卐卐卐卐卍卐卐
卍卍卍卍卐卍卍卍卍
卐卐卍卐卐卐卐卍卐
卐卍卐卐卐卐卍卐卐
卍卐卐卐卐卍卐卐卐
January 9, 2009 at 9:35 pm
ARYAN HITLERIST, you placed here subliminal message made from swastikas and sauwastikas – namely SS – abbreviation of “Schutz Staffel”! Backround is from 卐, and SS is from 卍!
January 10, 2009 at 9:36 am
AS I ESPECTED YOUR SINFUL CORRUPTED SOULS ARE OUT WITH SIFUL WORDS.
January 10, 2009 at 9:46 am
SOME HOLY ETHICS:
Hinduism
Ethics of Hinduism
Three documents, namely the Upanishads, Bhagavad-Gita and Brahma Sutra form the basis of Vedanta (called Prasthana-traya). From these scriptures are drawn Hindu ethics that help in guiding the Hindu through his daily as well as spiritual journey. Though Vedanta currently is the favorite of English-speaking Hindu intellectuals, it was from the wisdom of the Upanishads and Bhagavad-Gita that the ancient Hindus set forth their ethics in a practical way, expected to be followed by all Hindus. The Laws of Manu (Dharmashastra or Manuva Shastra) gave details of societal rules and Artha-shastra of Kautilya detailed the politics and economics.
Ethics of Upanishads
Upanishad means ‘to sit down near’ because they were explained to the students, who sat at the feet of their teachers. In general Upanishads proclaim salvation by knowledge and realization, rather than by faith and works. Selfish desires are obstacles to the seekers of Truth (the Higher- Self, also called as Brahman). A seeker of true Divinity will attain salvation when he realizes the Truth, the all-pervasive Brahman. The universe came into existence because of a primeval desire of Brahman. Now it is the duty of the humans to restore it to the state of things before creation. This can be done by sacrifice, benevolence, study and even ascetism, which in turn will permit the seeker of truth to attain bliss. Honesty is especially extolled. He who has not denounced evil will never obtain Brahman. The worldly perceptions of smell, taste, touch, hearing and sight makes one separate from the True Self. When one can transcend these perceptions there is no consciousness of anything other than Self. This is immortality.
There are six great sayings (Mahavakyas) from the Upanishads that give the basic insight into its philosophy. They are as follows with a brief analysis of each:
Aham Brahmasmi
“I am Brahman”: Vedic knowledge teaches that our own “Self” is the true Divinity. The Truth is within us, in our own heart. This states the identity of the inner most consciousness of the individual with the supreme Divine.
Ayam Atma Brahma
“The Self is Brahman”: This states that not only individual soul is Divine but all beings are identified with the Absolute Truth.
Tat Tvam Asi
“That art thou”: Whatever we see or think about, we are That. We are the ultimate Thou and I in all.
Prajnanam Brahma
“ Knowledge is Brahman”: Supreme intelligence is present inherently within us and is capable of returning us to the Divine. Our understanding of the truth is the Truth itself.
Sarvam Kalvidam Brahma
“ The whole universe is Brahman”: Not only the consciousness in you and I but also the ‘principle of being’ are all Divine. The entire universe is Divine, which includes our Self.
So ‘ham
“Here am I”: This identifies the Divinity in our Self in something that happens naturally like breathing. “So” is inhalation and “Ham” is the natural sound of exhalation.
These are the six statements of the identity of individual consciousness with the Divine reality. They all merge into and derive from the word “Om (Aum)” or the Divine word “I Am All”. All of these statements point to the fact that whatever or however we worship, be it an image, book, an idea or even a God, it is the knowledge that the Truth is within ourselves that will ultimately lead to self-realization. Self is the true Divinity. This is the essence of Upanishads.
The Bhagavad-Gita
Gita is the highest expression of philosophical Hinduism. It is a chapter of the immense Indian epic, the Mahabharata, the saga of the war between the Pandavas and the Kauravas. Arjuna, hero of the Pandavas, is about to confront the army of the Kauravas on the battlefield of Kuruksetra. Among the opposing army are his friends and relatives. Convinced that it would be wrong to kill his own kinsmen, Arjuna is overcome by despair. He lays down his bow and declares that he will not fight. God Vishnu, incarnated as the charioteer Krishna, explains that Arjuna should do his duty (Dharma) and do battle. The human soul, which is part of the universal soul, is immortal – therefore no one is actually slain. If people perform the duties appropriate to their station, without attachment to success or failure, then they cannot be stained by action. The rest of the poem provides the full philosophy underlying this insight. The essence of karma yoga and of self-abnegation through yoga of renunciation as well as yoga of meditation, mysticism and devotion are discussed in eighteen chapters as conversation between Arjuna and Krishna. Detached action along with the fruits of this action is consecrated to God and this forms the basis of karma yoga. Bhagavad-Gita teaches the causation and the effects of karma and how to deal with its manifestations. It also teaches that the human being has a free will that permits him to make intelligent choices, which in turn may alter the manifestation of the karma. The ultimate goal of every Hindu is to reduce the bad karma that he may have to carry with him into his next cycle of birth.
The Gita is variously dated between the third century B.C.E. and the fourth century C.E. The reason for uncertainty is that the Gita is not always consistent and may be the work of several hands. A follower of the philosophy expressed in the Upanishads probably wrote one strand, in which Brahman is the highest unity underlying reality. A devotee of the supreme god Vishnu may have added another strand, focused on a more personal deity, later. The Gita may originally have been written as a separate document and later incorporated into the Mahabharata.
God is in all things, and all things are in God. But the visible universe springs from only a fraction of Vishnu’s glory. There is also a hidden part of God, which extends beyond the universe.
Nevertheless, the Gita contains probably the most powerful and thoroughgoing expression of pantheism in world scripture. The one God is the pinnacle of all things – the radiant sun of lights, the thought organ of sense organs, the intellect of beings, the ocean of waters, the Himalayas of mountain ranges, the Ganges of rivers. He is also the inherent essence of everything – including evil. He is the gambling of rogues, the courage of the courageous, the rod of disciplinarians, and the statecraft of politicians, the Knowledge of the knowing.
Hindu Ethics and Conduct
Elaboration of the social code is found in the Mahabharata. There are four great aims of human life (purusharthas), namely dharma or righteousness, artha or wealth, kama or enjoyment and moksha or spiritual liberation; the four stages of life, the student or brahmacharya, the householder or grahasthya, the forest-dweller or vanaprastha and the wandering ascetic or sanyasa: and the four castes, the priest-teacher or Brahmin, the warrior or kshatriya, the trader or vaishya and the worker or shudra.
The Manuva-shastra (codes of Manu) gives details of social rules and practices. Kautilya’s Artha-shastra discusses economics and politics. A Hindu finds the ethics of Hinduism in the poems of Bhagavad-Gita. These were written at a time when there was attack on the establishment by reformers in order to maintain the order of the society. Gita teaches that by fulfilling his class function to the best of his ability, with devotion to God and without personal ambition, a man can find salvation, whatever his class. The teachings of the Bhagavad-Gita are summed up in the maxim “your business is with deed and not with the result”.
Other texts that that give insight into Hindu ethics also shaped the life of a Hindu. There is the Manasollasa written by 12th Century Deccan king Someshvara III Chalukya that illustrates Hindu morals. Hospitality, charity and honesty are extolled. Piety, performance of religious worship and pilgrimage are also important. Eight virtues of the soul were mentioned in the law book of Gautama, namely compassion, patience, contentedness, purity, earnest endeavor, pure thoughts, freedom from greed, and freedom from envy. Tamil texts of Tiukkural and Naladiyar also stress on the moral codes.
Earnest kindliness and tolerance to all human relations along with non-violence had real effect on Hindu life. Desire for the well being of all beings and benevolence in the form of almsgiving were encouraged especially when done with no expectation of rewards at least in this life. The duties also changed according to the ages and classes of people. The ascetic should set his mind on unworldly things but a layman was encouraged to strike a harmony between religion, profession and material pleasures. Similarly students, householders, elderly and the aged had different functions and duties to fulfill. Especially the orthodox classes also followed taboos like not coming in contact with an untouchable, eating forbidden meat as well as left over food. However the more intelligent teachers realized that mere outward observance was not meritorious as inner goodness. Rules were not rigid and there was always a way to circumvent the most stringent of the rules.
A Hindu is advised to contain and restrain all the emotions that may lead to a sinful existence. Thus he is asked to control such emotions as Kama (lust), Krodha (anger), Mada (ego, pride) and Matsara (jealousy). The moral codes of various texts repeatedly emphasize the importance of being aware of these ordinary but strong human emotions that lead to the disruptions of a harmonious society.
There are nine basic requirements that a Hindu should be aware of and follow. Personal discipline, good conduct, self-inquiry and meditation are important. Here briefly are the nine beliefs of Hinduism.
(Source: From ‘Dancing with Siva’, by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami)
Belief in the divinity of Vedas.
The Supreme Being is both immanent and transcendent, thus both a Creator and Un-manifest Reality.
The universe is in an endless cycle of creation, preservation and dissolution.
One creates his own destiny by his thoughts, deeds and words. This law of cause and effect is called the Karma.
Every soul evolves through a series of births and deaths (janma and punar-janma) until all karmas have been resolved. The cycle of many births (samsara) is the opportunity to shed the effects of karma in order to attain liberation (moksha) form the eternal cycle. Not a single soul is deprived of this destiny.
Belief in the existence of divine beings in unseen worlds. Temple worship, rituals, sacraments as well as personal devotions create a communion with the devas and God.
A master or a guru is essential to follow the right path to know the Transcendent Absolute.
All forms of life are sacred and are to be loved and revered. All must follow the practice of ‘non-injury’ or ahimsa.
No one particular religion teaches the ‘only pathway’ to salvation. All genuine religious paths are facets of God’s Light and Love, deserving tolerance and understanding.
January 10, 2009 at 9:56 am
THE TRUE UNIVERSAL RELIGEION
It is a synthesis of approaches. Even the name “Hinduism”came late. The original name is Sanaat’ana Dharma, Eternal Truth. We can pick up and understand “that Truth” in any way we like. In this great religion we leave real freedom of choice in worship, in approaching that One Supreme Entity, that we call God.
In Hindu thought, there is room for everything, not only the nice, refined philosophies. Even the simple, ordinary crude forms of worship are accepted, because that’s where some people begin. They believe in that, like a baby playing with a wooden horse, taking it to the water, putting grass into its mouth and saying, “Come on, horsey, come and eat.” You don’’t laugh at the child, because that’s the way a child begins.
Hinduism never rejects or denies anything or anybody. It is a big ocean.It could be called Sindhuism .”Sindhu” in some of the Indian languages means “ocean.” It never says, “Only Ganga andGodavari may enter; Missouri and Mississippi must stay out.” No ,they all flow in. Even the city gutter water goes in. It’s as if the big ocean mamma says, “Come, my child, I know you went around and got dirty. Come in, and I will clean you up.” Even atheism is accepted. The Hindus know that the moment you say, “I don’’t believe in God,”you seem to accept a God. If there is not God, why do you want not to believe? You say, that there is a God, but you don’t believe in it. A true Hindu will have no problem in accepting all other faiths. He will never say,”Oh, I am only a Hindu. I am not a Catholic. I’’m not a Buddhist. I’’m not a Muslim.” They are all based on devotion, the Bhakti Yoga. The ocean never denies any water; it’s all embracing. That is why sometimes I like to call myself “Undo,” because I would like to undo “all limitations”.
All of our problems today are based on the attitude that, “My way, my approach is the right one. And if you don’’t follow this, you’ll be condemned.”There is no one way, because each mind is different. Each person conceives of God according to his capacity, taste and temperament. You have your way. You have the freedom and the right to follow it; but your following “your way” should not cause problems to others. Just as you have your freedom, others must also have the freedom to find peace and joy,- in their own way.
It’s very, painful to see people hurting each other, even killing oneanother, in the name of God and religion. Even in the name of Hinduism, you find religious quarrels. People who see God as S’iva didn’t want to see God as Vishnu. S’aivites and Vaishnavites quarrel. It is our lack of understanding [of our own religion]; we don’’t see the underlying spirituality behind all the diversities in the creation.
Religion has a very important role to play in the world. Unfortunately, it forgets that role, and the different religions fight with one another. We have enough money, enough land, enough food to feed, clothe and house everyone. Poverty and hunger are not due to lack of resources. The reason is that we are not caring and sharing. We have to open and change the hearts of the people. That can be done onlythrough religious understanding;- to help them see that we are all children of that One Absolute God, one global, divine family. There is only one God who is our Lord, who is the life in us. Like rain in the river going back to the ocean, every drop of water that wants to go back to its source is a religious seeker.
God above is like completely distilled water. When it falls down on one side of the river, it is called Heavenly Father. On the other side, they call it Allah. If it falls in the Himalayas, they call it Siva. We may call this One God: Brahma, Father, Mother, Adonai, Cosmic Consciousness, Divine Essence, etc. But we mean the same thing. God is pleased with any name we give Him. He doesn’t care what we call Him, but rather how we feel about Him.
In the Ve’d’aant’ic part of the Hindu scriptures, it says that God has no name or form. So we find it hard to communicate. Due to our limitations, we can never comprehend something without a form. For example, if I say”sweetness”, how would you understand sweetness? Immediately, you have to think of sugar or money or candy. Without a form, you cannotunderstand sweetness. That is the reason why we try to understand God throughforms and names. Otherwise God is formless. The Saiva Saint Manikkavasagar said, “You don’t have a name; You don’t have a form, but we approachYou with thousands of names and thousands of forms. You accept all our approaches.”
The beauty and greatness of Hinduism is that it allows real freedom of choice in worship. There is room for the Ve’d’aant’in who approaches God within as his own Self without any form. If you wish to approach God through a form, there is S’iva, or Vishnu, or Kumaara; or as a Goddess Durga, Lakshmi, Saraswati and others. If you don’’t believe in a human form of God, you can worship a tree, a snake ora stone. You can see God in any form you want, because God made everything in his own image; everything is His expression. [-as declared by the MahaaVaakyaasin the Ve’d’aas.]
It is my heartfelt player that we all make this resolution: “From this day onward, my life will be all-embracing and harmonious. Let me learn to accept all the various approaches of people, because everyone is looking for the same happiness and joy in life. Let me not condemn anybody because he or she looks, thinks or, acts a little different. Let me reailize the spiritual unity behind all the diversities in the creation and remember always that we are members of one divine family. This, in my own small, humble way, may contribute to the peace, joy, and harmony of the world.”
January 10, 2009 at 10:07 am
1.Principles. If a great scientist like Einstein, discovered or realized laws of physics, Hinduism would call him a great Rishi Maharshi or seer of truth. Such seers of truth are not confined to any one age RELIGIONS IS THAT IT DRIVESNOT FROM THE SINGLE GREAT FOUNDER BUT FROM THE IMPERSONAL “VEDIC SCRIPTURES”HINDUISMS THUS SCOPE FOR WORSHIPFUL INCORPORATION INTO ITS FOLD OF PROPHETSOF ALL AGES AND ALL.
2. omnipresent, omnipotent.Hinduism is based upon Eternal Principles. If a great scientist like Einstein, discovered or realized laws of physics, Hinduism would call him a great Rishi Maharshi or seer of truth understand the principles of Hinduism. From the ancient times, many great Rishis achieved self-realisation through such practices as meditation and austerities and they realised knowledge concerning Eternal.
3.
. There is no founder to give credit to its discovery and establishment. Rather, Hinduism is a dharma or way of life evolved by the great sages of ancient India. In this article, you will find interesting facts about are saturated with sublime ideas and ideals and lifted to great spiritual heights.Basic tenets of HinduismHinduism is a conglomeration of diverse beliefs and traditions and hence cannot be confined to any one.
January 10, 2009 at 10:18 am
Hinduism stands tall among the league of religions.
how & why?
There are many answers.
The greatness of Hinduism can be summarized in few words.
“Freedom of Thoughts and Actions.”
1. Hinduism is a way of life, a culture and not an organized religion like Islam or Christianity.
There is no POPE or hierarchy in Hinduism. Only thing Hinduism have a lot of scriptures.
2. . Hinduism is a Culture and all the eastern religions like Buddhism, to some extend Jainism, Sikhism came from Hinduism. Judaism is also a culture/religion from which organized religions like Islam and Christianity came.
3 Hinduism never ever had a “spring cleaning” like all other religions do. What ever any one wrote for the last thousands of years are still there for people to study and discuss.
4 No body is killed or crucified since he or she challenged Vedas or any other scriptures. In fact, Hindus worship Lord Buddha who challenged authority of Vedas and Hindu form of worship.
5 Hinduism never state it has monopoly on truth or God. According to Hinduism, God & truth are universal.
Rig Veda states: ‘ekam sat viprah bahudaa vadanti’ …meaning Truth or God is one but learnt men describe it in many ways.
6 Hindu scriptures state, “Sathya meva Jayathe” meaning “Truth alone triumps, never falsehood.” So Hindu scriptures allow FREE FLOW OF THOUGHTS.
Hindu authors knew that by allowing absolute free of expression, every one will finally end up attaining truth. They preached, “Ignorance is the root cause of all evils and knowledge eradicates ignorance.’
7 Hinduism never state only by becoming a Hindu, one can attain salvation. Instead Hindu scriptures state, “Salvation or self-realization is open to all, irrespective whether a person Hindu or not. Even an agnostic and atheist can attain salvation.
8 Nobody is denied salvation in Hinduism. The best among us will attain with one life. The worst among us will attain through many lives.
Salvation or self-realization is the process by which one is attaining the true knowledge that he is the immortal soul Atman within and giving up the false knowledge that one is the perishable material body.
9 Hinduism never forcefully convert others to Hinduism like other religions do. Hinduism as a culture and it does not force any one to become a Hindu. Those who convert to Hinduism are doing that since they fell in love with Hinduism.
10 Hinduism believes in one and only God Brahman which expresses itself in trillions of forms. Hindus believe in a one, all-pervasive Supreme Being who is both immanent and transcendent, both Creator and Un manifested Reality.
According to Hindu scriptures you can worship that God which has NO name or form [nama-roopa] in any form & with any name.
You can worship that God calling it Jesus or Allah or Brahman or Krishna or Buddha or anything else you wish. In all worships, finally worshiper ends with a God which is spirit, which has no name or form.
11 Even atheists can proudly proclaim they are Hindus. In fact the Charvaka philosophy or Nastika philosophy, (existed during the Vedic period) founded by Charvaka rejected the existence of God and considered religion as an aberration. Nobody killed Charvaka. He died a natural death.
12 Hindus do NOT worship idols.. Hindus use idols like everyone else to concentrate on a God who has no name or form. All worships in all religions start with God with a name and form. As the devotee matures in devotion, devotee start sees a God without any form at all.
14 Hindus believe that the universe undergoes endless cycles of creation, preservation and dissolution. This belief is in parallel with the modern big bang theory.
January 10, 2009 at 10:31 am
GOT THE TIME?
ACCORDING TO ASTROPHYSICIST Carl Sagan, the age of the universe is somewhere around 12-billion-years-old. The Hindu tradition has a day and night of Brahma in this range, somewhere in the region of 8.4 billion years. Dr. Sagan said, “As far as I know, India is the only ancient religious tradition on the Earth which talks about the right time scale. In the West, people have the sense that what is natural is for the universe to be a few thousand years old, and that it is billions of years is mind-reeling, and no one can understand it. The Hindu concept is very clear. Here is a great world culture which has always talked about billions of years.”
Timeline:
10,000 BC: According to Dr. B.G. Siddharth of Birla Institute of Science:
Taittiriya Brahmana 3.1.2 refers to Purvabhadrapada constellation’s rising due east – a phenomenon occurring at this time
7000 BC: Early evidence of horses in the Ganga region (Dr. David Frawley, Author of “Gods, Sages, and Kings” – a must read for anyone interested in this subject!)
6500 BC: Rig Veda verses (1.117.22, 1.116.12, 1.84.13.5, etc) say winter solstice begins in Aries indicating the antiquity of this section of the vedas.
6000 BC: Rig Veda describes Rajasthan (western India) as a fertile region. Disbelieved by many European scholars. Recent satellite survey and archeological digs point to the veracity of the vedas.
5000 BC: Saraswati Civilization (also known as Mohenjodaro-Harappan civilization, but dated to be much later by 19th, early 20th, century European scholars) begins. Current date is derived by considering archeological sites, reached after excavating 45 feet. This mature culture will last for nearly 3000 years, ending around 1700 BC.
4300 BC: Traditional date set for the Ramayana.
3928 BC: According to Dr. Sri P.C. Sengupta, this is the earliest reference to an eclipse in Indian history.
3139 BC: Preferred date for the Mahabharata. Based on extensive work done by B.G. Tilak. Reference to vernal equinox in Rohini (middle of Taurus).
3102 BC: Beginning of the Kaliyuga.
3100 BC: Aryans inhabit Iran, Iraq and Western Indus-Saraswati frontier. Huges debate rages in India regarding this Aryan Invasion Theory. Originally proposed by Max Muller, this theory has survived for over a hundred years despite many apparent contradictions. The theory tries very hard to place India and events in India as occurring after 4000 BC, the Biblical date of creation.
Current archeological digs, satellite imagery, modern techniques have yielded sufficient evidence to cast a serious doubt over the widely held invasion theory.
2600 BC: Major portions of the Vedic hymns are composed.
ca 2040 BC: Birth of Lord Rama according to most scholars
1900 BC: Saraswati river dries up, shifting the civilization more inland.
1500 BC: Submergence of the stone city of Dwarka – recently discovered off the coast of Gujarat, a western Indian state.
This is a possible date of the lifetime of Lord Krishna.
1424 BC: Mahabharata war occurs (dated by Sage Vyasa’s citation in his epic poem on the war of winter solstice at Dhanishtha, which occurs around this time).
1300 BC: Panini systemizes Sanskrit grammar in 4,000 rules (in a book called Ashtadhyayi). Western scholars give the date as 400 BC.
850 BC: The Chinese are using the 28-nakshatra (constellation) zodiac called Shiu, adapted from the Hindu jyotisha system.
800 BC: Later Upanishads are recorded
273 BC: Ashoka, the last of the great Mauriyan kings, is coronated.
Aryan Invasion Theory – Whatizit? Is it relevant?
Demise of Aryan Invasion/Race Theory: Aryan Race and Invasion Theory is not a subject of academic interest only, rather it conditions our perception of India’s historical evolution, the sources of her ancient glorious heritage, and indigenous socio-economic-political institutions which have been developed over the millennia. Consequently, the validity or invalidity of this theory has an obvious and strong bearing on the contemporary Indian political and social landscape as well as the future of Indian nationalism. The subject matter is as relevant today as it was a hundred years ago when it was cleverly introduced in the school text books by British rulers. See “Demise of the Aryan Invasion Theory” for more details…
Main Scriptures
· Vedas
· Upanishads
· Ramayana
· Mahabharata
· YojasUtras of Patanjali
· Manu Smriti
· Bhaja GovindaM
Upanishad texts: Upanishad means the inner or mystic teaching. The term Upanishad is derived from upa (near), ni (down) and s(h)ad (to sit), i.e., sitting down near. Groups of pupils sit near the teacher to learn from him the secret doctrine.
Mahabharata and Ramayana fall into the itihaasa category. Along with the Puranas, these are even considered the 5th vedas.
Biggest Temple Lamp In the World
The 3,300 pound, 11-foot-high, temple lamp of the Chettikulangara Devi temple in Alleppey, Kerala, is the largest in the world. With 1,000 wicks and 13 tiers, it is arranged like the branches of a banyan tree. The lowest rung is 6.8 feet in diameter with 101 wicks. The lamp, known locally as aalu vilakku, was lit for the first time in September, 1988. P. V. Jeevaraj, Chellappan Achari and 17 workers took 18 months to complete it.
Medieval History
1017-1137: Life of Ramanuja of Kanchipuram, Tamil philosopher-saint of Shri Vaishnava sect that continues bhakti tradition of S. Indian Alvar saints. His strongly theistic nondual Vishishtadvaita Vedanta philosophy restates Pancharatra tradition. Foremost opponent of Shankara’s system, he dies at age 120 while head of Shrirangam monastery.
1193: Qutb ud-Din Aybak founds first Muslim Sultanate of Delhi, establishing the Mamluk Dynasty (1193-1290).
1197: Great Buddhist university of Nalanda is destroyed by Ikhtiyar ud-din.
1440-1518: Lifetime of Kabir, Vaishnava reformer with who has both Muslim and Hindu followers. (His Hindi songs remain immensely popular to the present day.)
1450?-1547: Lifetime of Mirabai, Vaishnava Rajput princess saint who, married at an early age to the Rana of Udaipur, devotes herself to Krishna and later renounces worldly life to wander India singing to Him beautiful mystic compositions that are sung to the present day.
1469-1538: Lifetime of Guru Nanak, founder of Sikhism, originally a reformist Hindu sect stressing devotion, faith in the guru, repetition of God’s name and rejection of renunciation and caste. (Most Sikhs in the present day consider themselves members of a separate religion.)
1479-1531: Lifetime of Vallabhacharya, a married Telegu brahmin saint who teaches pushtimarga, “path of love,” and a lofty nondual philosophy, Shuddhadvaita Vedanta, in which souls are eternally one with Brahman. Vallabhacharya’s Vaishnavism worships Krishna in the form of Shri Nathji.
1483-1563: Lifetime of Surdas, sightless Hindi bard of Agra, whose hymns to Krishna are compiled in the Sursagar.
1486-1543: Life of Chaitanya, Bengali founder of popular Vaishnava sect which proclaims Krishna Supreme God and emphasizes sankirtan, group chanting and dancing.
1605: Sikh Golden Temple (Harimandir) at Amritsar, Punjab, is finished, completely covered with gold leaf.
Recent History
1828: Ram Mohan Roy (1772-1833) founds Adi Brahmo Samaj in Calcutta, first movement to initiate religio-social reform. Influenced by Islam and Christianity, he denounces polytheism, idol worship; repudiates the Vedas, avataras, karma and reincarnation, caste and more.
1836-86: Lifetime of Shri Ramakrishna, God-intoxicated Bengali Shakta saint, guru of Swami Vivekananda. He exemplifies the bhakti dimension of Shakta Universalism.
1857: First Indian Revolution, called the Sepoy Mutiny, ends in a few months with the fall of Delhi and Lucknow.
1893: Swami Vivekananda represents Hinduism at Chicago’s Parliament of the World’s Religions, first ever interfaith gathering, dramatically enlightening Western opinion as to the profundity of Hindu philosophy and culture.
1981: India has one-half world’s cattle: 8 cows for every 10 Indians.
“Hindu religious philosophy is based on experience, on personal discovery and testing of things. It does not say,’Believe as others do or suffer.’ Rather, it says,’Know thy Self, inquire and be free.’”
“For the man who has conquered it, the mind becomes his greatest friend. For the one who has failed to conquer it, the mind becomes his worst enemy.”
“The Vedic experience may perhaps disclose, not an alternative to the modern view of life and the world … but an already existing, although often hidden, dimension of Man himself.”
“The wise man sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself. Therefore he never feels hostility toward anyone.”
“When doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face, and I see not one ray of hope on the horizon, I turn to Bhagavad Gita and find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. Those who meditate on the Gita will derive fresh joy and new meanings from it every day.”
“Shall India die? Then from the world all spirituality will be extinct; all moral perfection will be extinct; all sweet-souled sympathy for religion will be extinct; all thy for religion will be extinct; all ideality will be extinct; and in their place will reign the duality of lust and luxery as the male and female deities, with money as its priest; fraud, force, and competition its ceremonies; and the human soul its sacrifice.”
“[Cosmic] consciousness shows the cosmos to consist not of dead matter governed by unconscious, rigid, and unintending law; it shows it on the contrary as entirely immaterial, entirely spiritual and entirely alive; it shows that death is an absurdity; … it shows that the universe is God and that God is the universe.”
January 10, 2009 at 10:41 am
HERE ARE SOME MORE EVIDENCE: Hindu Religion is the most ancient Religious faith, culture and traditional way of life of a civilization that has existed for over 10,000 years all over India and much of adjoining areas of Asia. Hindu Religion is not a true Religion in the real sense of the term but more a way of life or a “Dharma” -to live a life of purity with simplicity with a sense of Natural Justice. It does not have any one founder, and it does not have one source book like a Bible or a Koran to which controversies can be referred for resolution. Consequently, it does not require its adherents to accept any one idea like a dogma imposed on every one. It does not accept any dogmas or dictatorial religious guidance. It encourages every one to think, analyze, question and accept the faith with true knowledge and intuition. Since Hindu scriptures include not just books relating to spirituality but also secular pursuits like science, medicine, astronomy and engineering, it defies classification as a religion. In fact one can almost identify Hinduism with a civilization and a culture that is flourishing even now.
OLDNESS:Evidence that Hindu Religion must have existed even circa 10000 B.C. is available: The importance attached to the river Saraswati and the numerous references to it in the Rigveda (interestingly, Ganga appears only twice) indicates that the Rigveda was being composed well before 6500 B.C. The first vernal equinox recorded in the Rigveda is that of the star Ashwini, which is now known to have occurred around 10,000 B.C. The technological sophistication required to even anticipate such concepts is unlikely to have been acquired by a nomadic people. The faith existed both on the East and the West of this Indus valley. The Aryan Invasion Theory having been completely discredited, it cannot be assumed that Hinduism was the nomadic faith of invaders belonging to a Central Asian race called Aryans. Rather it was the common metafaith or belief of people of various races, including Harappans. The Sanskrit word Aryan is a word of honorable address, not the racial reference as ‘invented’ by European scholars and put to perverse use by the Nazis.
THE ARYAN THEORY:Unless otherwise specified, Aryan will be used in this document as a word of honorable address. Within this culture, there were several variations in the groups, some following narration of recitations and rituals and others joining together in a common place for a congregational worship and for marker stones and symbols. Various groups of people like hunters, farmers and other nomadic groups followed it all over this area. It was seen with slight variations within each group. It is said that there were several forms of the faith existing at the early history, which was organized into one faith by King Vaivasvatha Manu [about 8600 BCE]. This evolved into the Sanatana Dharma or the modern day Hindu Religion of Vedas, Agamas, Sãstras and rituals as one great faith and practice.
January 10, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Evil chaos hindutva foulbrood, go back into Eye of Terror:
http : / /warhammer40k . wikia . com / wiki / Eye_of_Terror
and never return again!
January 10, 2009 at 8:51 pm
Evil chaos hindutva foulbrood, go back into Eye of Terror :
http : / /warhammer40k . wikia . com / wiki / Eye_of_Terror
and never return again !
January 10, 2009 at 9:04 pm
333 = CATHOLIC GOD
333 x 1 = GOD’S UNITY
333 x 2 = GOD’S DEITY + GOD’S HUMANITY
333 x 3 = GOD’S TRINITY
January 11, 2009 at 12:05 pm
nirjhar
micheldanino a french prof is doing research on indian civilization,
i found this site interesting
The Indus-Sarasvati Civilization and its Bearing on the Aryan Question
http://micheldanino.voiceofdharma.com/indus.html
micheldanino
Conclusion
I will end where I began. Would it be “chauvinistic” (to use a word our modern Indian intellectuals are so fond of) to attribute the greatness of the Indus-Sarasvati civilization to the Indian genius ? I do not think so. Apart from its striking cultural continuity with subsequent developments of Indian civilization, which makes up a total thread of 9,000 years, it exhibits traits typical of the Indian temperament : a bold enterprising spirit, a remarkable adaptability to changing conditions, a cultural and spiritual content in the smallest everyday activities, and, most importantly, a capacity for a broader view, without which this huge area could not have had such a cultural homogeneity free from major conflicts. Even its remarkable civic sense, so lacking in today’s India, is yet part of the Indian character ; I have observed that Indians are quite capable of it, but contrary to well-disciplined Western peoples (the British or the Germans, for instance), Indians will accept collective discipline only once their hearts have been conquered ; mere authority and rules cannot get it out of them.
All said and done, the people of the Indian subcontinent can justifiably claim this ancient civilization as a central and inspiring part of their heritage. But they should not forget to learn from it the great lesson of the cycles of birth, life, decay, and rebirth of Indian civilization, a lesson we need to keep in our minds especially at the present moment.
thought you will like it
January 13, 2009 at 9:44 am
I CHECKED IT AND ITS QUITE REAVILING VENKAT.
January 13, 2009 at 9:56 am
THUS SPAKE VIVEKANANDA
HINTS ON PRACTICAL SPIRITUALITY
LOS ANGELES, JANUARY, 1900
Fourteen hundred years before Christ, a great Indian philosopher, Patanjali, made a systematic study of psychology in order to give man a practical framework in which to shape his life. For it was clear to him that man’s actions sprang from his mind, and it was only there that man’s understanding of himself and control of his destiny could begin.
Looking at workings of the mind, we see that it is conditioned by memories and experiences. And we see too, that memories of the past, some of the present lifetime
itself, and some from a remote past, inscribed into our genetic or cultural inheritance,
lie forgotten and submerged in the unconscious, beneath the conscious, and yet exert
a powerful influence over it, for both good and bad.
“On some other occasions, I told you the definition of God and man. Man is an infinite circle whose circumference is nowhere, but the centre is located in one spot; and God is
an infinite circle whose circumference is nowhere, but whose centre is everywhere. He works through all hands, sees through all eyes, walks on all feet, breathes through all bodies, speaks through every mouth and thinks through every brain. Man can become
like God and acquire control over the whole universe, if he multiplies infinitely his centre
of self-consciousness. Consciousness, therefore, is the chief thing to understand…… ”
“Practical psychology directs, first of all, it’s energies in controlling the unconscious,
and we know that we can do it. Why ? Because we know that the cause of the unconscious is the conscious; the unconscious thoughts are the submerged millions of our conscious thoughts, old conscious actions become petrified —- we do not look at them, we do not know them, have forgotten them………. if the power of evil is in the subconscious, so also
is the power of good …… True psychology would therefore try to bring them under the control of the conscious. The great task is to revive the whole man, as it were, in order
to make him the complete master of himself………..”
“This is the first part of the study, the control of the unconscious. The next is to go beyond the conscious. Just as unconscious work is beneath consciousness, so there is another work which is above consciousness. When this super-conscious state is reached, man becomes free and divine; death becomes immortality, weakness becomes infinite power, and iron bondage becomes liberty. That is the goal, the infinite realm of the
super- conscious.”
“….. But it is so hard to reach the goal, yet even the smallest attempts are not in vain …….. He who desires a comfortable and nice life, and at the same time, wants to realise
the Self, is like the fool, who, wanting to cross the river, caught hold of a crocodile, mistaking it for a log of wood …… ” (Viveka Chudamani – 84)
“…… The greatest help to spiritual life is meditation (Dhyana). In meditation, we divest ourselves of all material conditions and feel our divine nature….. The less the thought of the body, the better. For it is the body that drags us down. It is attachment, identification that makes us miserable. “That is the secret : To think that I am the spirit and not the body, and that the whole of this Universe with all it’s relations, with all it’s good, with all
it’s evil, is but a series of paintings — scenes on a canvas — of which I am the Witness.”
January 13, 2009 at 10:06 am
HINDUISM IS NOT A POLYTHEISTIC!
Many believe that multiplicity of deities makes Hinduism polytheistic. Such a belief is nothing short of mistaking the wood for the tree. The bewildering diversity of Hindu belief – theistic, atheistic and agnostic – rests on a solid unity. “Ekam sath, Vipraah bahudhaa vadanti”, says the Rig Veda: The Truth (God, Brahman, etc) is one, scholars call it by various names.
What the multipicity of deities does indicate is Hinduism’s spiritual hospitality as evidenced by two characteristically Hindu doctrines: Adhikaara (the doctrine of spiritual competence) and Ishhta Devata (the doctrine of the chosen Deity). The doctrine of spiritual competence requires that the spiritual practices prescribed to a person should correspond to his or her spiritual competence. The doctrine of the chosen deity gives a person the freedom to choose (or invent) a form of Brahman that satisfies his spiritual cravings and to make it the object of his worship. It is notable that both doctrines are consistent with Hinduism’s assertion that the unchanging reality is present in everything, even the transient.
January 13, 2009 at 10:14 am
YOGA IS OLD THAN YOU THINK:
5000 years ago, ancient spiritual tradition of India spoke of a universal source of all life. The energy called prana. This universal energy is the breath of life moves through all forms to give them life. Yogis work with this energy with breathing techniques, meditation, and physical exercise to produce altered states of consciousness and longevity
3,000 years ago, the ancient Qigong masters in China were practicing their meditative discipline to balance and invigorate the human energy field. They called this vital energy that pervades all forms, both animate and inanimate, Qi. The Qi is the vital energy of the body; while gong means the skill of moving this Qi and working with it. Practitioners use mind control to move and control the Qi to not only improve health and longevity, but also to enhance awareness, psychic powers, and spiritual development. The ancient Qigong masters also developed Tai Chi, Kung Fu, and the martial arts. In addition, they made the first model for acupuncture. Acupuncturists insert needles, or use moxa, or put magnets at specific acupuncture points to balance the yin and yang of the human energy field. When the Qi is balanced, the entity has good health. When the Qi is unbalanced, the entity has poor or impaired health.
The Kabbalah, the Jewish mystical teachings written about 538 B.C., calls these energies the astral light. Later on, Christian paintings and sculptures show a halo around the head of Christ and other spiritual leaders. Similarly, we see this halo on statues and paintings of Buddha, and also see energy or light coming from the fingers of many of the gods of India.
January 13, 2009 at 10:28 am
I THINK ANTIFA,CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN,333 etc are just here for nonsense talking and to pollute this sanskrit website.they shoul leave this for good and for progress.
January 13, 2009 at 10:37 am
CATHOLIC ASHRAMS:
Adopting And Adapting Hindu Dharma; Reconciliation is Underway, but Serious Obstacles Remain in the Dialogue Between Two Great Faiths
The Shantivanam ashram looks like a rishi’s home transported from Vedic times to the banks of the sacred Cauvery River at a forested place near Trichy in South India. A pilgrim’s first impressions are strong, and very Hindu: the elaborately colorful Hindu shrine; the bearded, saffron-robed “swami” seated cross-legged on a straw mat; devotees practicing yogic meditations, even chanting Hindu scriptures.
But these impressions gradually prove false. First, the eye detects that the courtyard shrine is for Saint Paul and that “puja” is actually a daily Mass, complete with incense, arati lamps, flower offerings and prasadam. Finally, one meets the “swami”, learning he is Father Bede “Dayananda” Griffiths, a Christian “sannyasin” of impeccable British background.
This is a Christian ashram, one of more than 50 in world, which are variously described as “experiments in cross-cultural communication,” “contemplative hermitages that revolve around both Christian and Hindu ideas,” or (less charitably) “institutions to brainwash and convert India’s unwary masses.” Are these places to be endorsed by Hindus as worthy attempts to share each other’s spirituality? Or are they a spiritual oxymoron, a contradiction of terms, because the Christians are interested in sharing – dialogue is the term they use – only as a means to conversion?
This special Hinduism Today report will focus on the issue of Catholic adoption and adaptation of those things that Hindus regard as their sacred heritage and spirituality, a policy the Catholics have named “inculturation.” It is a complex issue involving doctrine, cultural camouflage, allegedly deceptive conversion tactics and more. Many Catholics will be perplexed by the issue raised in this report. They don’t see what could be wrong with their selectively embracing those parts of Hindu spiritual discipline and culture which they find inspiring. And many Hindus, raised on decades of uncritical acceptance of any form of religious expression, may simply not care one way or the other.
Hindu leaders are more and more aware that the Indianization of Christianity is a serious matter. They remember the fate of the American Indian religion and the native spiritual traditions of Africa and South America. More recently they recall that the Hawaiian people who numbered nearly 500,000 a century ago, are now less than 50,000 – their culture gone, their language spoken by a mere 500 people and their gods worshipped by a dying handful of kahuna priests. All this was the effective and intentional bequest of a few dedicated Christian missionaries – good people who thought their work necessary and divinely ordained. The purpose which drove these early missionaries to eliminate non-Christian faiths and cultures has not changed. It has become more subtle, more articulately argued. It is certainly more of a problem to Africans, but India’s Hindus would do well to remain alert and informed. That is why it is essential to examine and understand such places as Father Bede’s Shantivanam.
Shantivanam
Father Bede Griffiths is widely respected among Christians and Hindus alike. In the West the Catholics hold him in awe, a present-day saint whose lifetime association with the great religious traditions of ancient India is considered a courageous pioneering.
Shantivanam’s brochure describes its objectives: “The aim of the ashram remains to establish a way of contemplative life, based alike on the traditions of Christian monasticism and of Hindu sannyasa. Hinduism has a tradition of sannyasa – ‘renunciation’ of the ‘liberation’ – which goes back many centuries before the birth of Christ and has continued to the present day. Our aim at Shantivanam is to unite ourselves with this tradition as Christian sannyasis. Our life is based on the Rule of Saint Benedict, the patriarch of Western monasticism [the Ashram is a official monastery of the Camaldolese Monks, founded in the 13th century in Italy], and on the teaching of three monastic Fathers of the Church, but we also study Hindu doctrine (Vedanta) and make use of Hindu methods of prayer and meditation (yoga). The ashram seeks to be a place of meeting for Hindus and Christians and people of all religions or none, who are genuinely seeking God.”
The residents of the ashram are generally Europeans, some of whom are initiated into “sannyas” by Father Griffiths and then return to their own countries. Others are novices of the order, sent for exposure to this way of life. All participate fully in the Indian life style of the place.
A November, 1984 article in The Hindu newspaper, published in Madras, describes some of the ashramites. “A psychologist by profession, a young lady from W. Germany, Maria, said she visited the ashram annually. Before her experiencing this atmosphere here, she taught that the Bible has no message for her and now after studying the Vedanta here she could now say that her attitude towards the Bible and Christ had undergone total transformation. She felt that there was nothing wrong with the Christian religion. Mr. Desmond, a young lad from Bombay and a drug addict said that after coming to the Ashram he was a transformed man and when he returned to Bombay after Christmas he would be a reformed man.” The article goes on to say Father Griffith had so far initiated 20 to 30 persons belonging to different nations as sannyasis and sannyasinis and all of them were spreading the message of this peaceful coexistence of the Trinity and non-duality in their own countries.”
The limits of Father Griffiths’ experiment in inculturation are apparent in his theological stance on certain central Hindu beliefs: reincarnation, moksha and cycles of time. He has not adopted any Hindu beliefs which would be considered heretical by the Catholic Church. In a 1984 interview by Renee Weber published in ReVision magazine, Father Griffiths said, “I consider reincarnation one of the most difficult doctrines to reconcile with Christian faith. According to popular belief the individual soul passes from body to body in a series of rebirths. I consider this entirely unacceptable from a Christian point of view.” In regard to transcendent experience, the merging of the soul in God, the Moksha of Hindu theology, Renee Weber asked, “Was there this extraordinary openness and capacity for self-transcendence precisely in Jesus? Or can it happen again?” Father Griffiths replied, “In the Christian understanding, we would say no. He was open to the total reality of God. The rest of us have varying degrees of openness to the divine.” Another area of difficulty is time. Hinduism conceives of time as vast cycles of creation and dissolution. Father Griffiths’ concept is that time is strictly linear, starting at one point in the past and ending at one point in the future, never repeating itself.
Though not covered in that particular interview, Father Griffiths would also have had to affirm his concept of God confirmed with the five anathemas against pantheism stated by Vatican I and left unaltered by Vatican II. An anathema is a forbidden belief, a belief which contradicts the Catholic teaching. These forbidden five are : “1) Nothing exists except matter. 2) God and all things possess one and the same substance and essence. 3) Finite things, both corporeal and spiritual, or at least spiritual, emanated from the divine substance. 4) The divine essence becomes all things by a manifestation or evolution of itself. 5) God is universal or indefinite being, which by determining itself makes up the universe, which is diversified into genera, species and individuals.” The Catholic Church forbids its priests to believe or preach any of these concepts, several of which are, of course, standard parts of most Hindu theologies. This shows that on the most central issue of theology – God – there is a vast chasm between Catholic and Hindu belief.
Father Griffiths is an anomaly – a Hindu on the outside, a Catholic on the inside. And he’s not the only one.
Jeevandara Ashram
Jeevandara Ashram, another Catholic ashram which is near Rishikesh in northern India, was founded by Ishapriya (Sister Patricia Kinsey) ands Vandanath of the Society of the Sacred Heart. Considered the nun’s equivalent of the Jesuits, this Order has 7,000 members worldwide and is deeply involved in education. Ishapriya was born in Britain, spent her novitiacy in London and then a year in Rome. She was sent on mission to India where she was deeply impressed by the spiritual values of the country. She stayed on, first at the Divine Life Society in Rishikesh, studying and eventually, she says, taking sannyas diksha from Swami Chidananda. Vandanath was born in Bombay, ran away from home at 16 or 17, converted to Christianity and then entered the order, eventually becoming provencale (head) in India. She and Ishapriya took sannyas together and founded the ashram. Like Shantivanam, the majority of the people at the ashram are western Christians, usually Sacred Heart nuns. They are also involved in missionary efforts to convert Hindus in the local area. The ashram moved twenty miles north of rishikesh due to objections by local Hindus.
A correspondent for Hinduism Today met briefly with Ishapriya in Carmel, California. She was conducting a six week retreat program in Ashtanga Yoga at the Angelica Convent. The white-haired nun, about 50, was dressed in a saffron sari and wore a large cross around her neck. Hinduism Today inquired if there is any Christianity in her teachings. She replied “Of course, there is Christianity in my teachings, I am a Catholic.” We asked if she also teaches Catholicism in her ashram in India. She said the Hindus who attend are aware that she is Christian. “There is no problem with that. They know that it is a Catholic ashram.” Sensing that he was asking about her motives she stated, “We are only trying to make the Christians more aware. You are completely on the wrong track. We are only trying to pray.” When asked why she took sannyas, she replied, “Sannyas is just where the spirit leads,” and quickly excused herself.
A Catholic nun’s receiving sannyas from a Hindu swami seemed questionable, so Hinduism Today contacted Sadhaka Kartikeyan of the Divine Life Society at Rishikesh who was visiting San Francisco. He stated, “Our swamis would never initiate a Christian into Sannyas. Perhaps they were just given a mantram.” Other Hindus leaders, including the head of Kasi Mutt in Tirupanandal, confirmed that it would not be possible for a non-Hindu to take sannyas. After all, sannyas is Hindu monkhood.
The general attitude of the Order of the Sacred Heart toward Ishapriya is one of deep reverence and respect. But outside the order, a Sister explained the mother Church remains uneasy with her yoga teachings and Eastern look and learnings.
Hindu Reaction
The general Hindu reaction to these ashrams is one of tolerant, even loving acceptance and respect. Sarvadharma samabava, equal respect for all religions, has long been a fundamental principle of Hindu culture. Allowing another person to hold beliefs different from one’s own without attempting to change them, is dear to the Hindu’s heart, and he does, in actual practice, accept an enormous range of beliefs within his own religion.
Yet, among those at the vanguard of Hindu renaissance there is suspicion, resistance and even outright hostility as shown by comments collected for Hinduism Today in India on the subject of Christian ashrams. Here is a sampling: G.M. Jagtiani of Bombay wrote: “A mischievous attempt is being made by some Christian missionaries to wear the saffron robe, put tilak on their forehead, recite the Gita, and convert the Hindus to Christianity.” S. Shanmukham of the Hindu Munnani, Kanyakumari, states: “Once I met an orange-robed sannyasin. I took her to be a Hindu sannyasin. When asked, she said ‘I have put on this dress so that I can come in contact with Hindus very easily and tell them about Christianity.’” R. Chidambasaksiamma, Kanyakumari said. “It seems to be a sinister plan to make people accept Christ as God, the only God. They adopt all the philosophies and practices of Hindus but would accept only Jesus as God. It is only a development of their original plan of Indianisation of Christianity.”
At the root of these criticisms is a deep distrust of the Christians in India. Imposed by force from the outside, Christianity is still considered an unwelcome intrusion from the West. Even Mahatma Gandhi stated that from the time Christianity was established in Rome in the third century, “it became an imperialist faith as it remains to this day.” This unfortunate legacy has never been forgotten by the Hindus. Though the military backing is no longer present, enormous sums of money are sent into India for the use of missionaries. A well-monied and successful missionary is regarded as a threat to the national stability.
The official government document, Madhya Pradesh Report on Christian Missionary Activities (1956) stated, “evangelization in India appears to be a part of the uniform world policy to revive Christendom for re-establishing Western supremacy and is not prompted by spiritual motives. The objective is apparently to create Christian minority pockets with a view to disrupt the solidarity of the non-Christian societies. The ulterior motive is fraught with danger to the security of the State.”
Christians are only three percent of India’s population, yet they control 25% of all schools and 40% of all social service organizations. Their Western affiliations give them political entree and cultural clout beyond their numbers. Christians are widely viewed as not necessarily strongly loyal to the nation, the Catholics in particular being thought to be under the direct rule of the Vatican. The Madhya Pradesh report also says, “Because conversion muddles the convert’s sense of unity and solidarity with his society, there is a danger of his loyalty to his country and state being undermined.”
New Delhi’s Sita Ram Goel wrote a book on the Catholic threat in India full of intellectual fire. Papacy, its Doctrine and History was published in response to the Pope’s 1986 visit to India. This small volume is a scathing account of the history of Christians in India. Some excerpts: “Hindus at large were showing great aversion to Christianity accompanied as it was by wanton violence, loud-mouthed outpourings of the friars against everything which the Hindus cherished, killing of Brahmins and cows wherever the newcomers had no fear of reprisals, the extremely unhygienic habits of the Portuguese including their ‘holy men,’ and the drunken revelries in which they all indulged very frequently. The only people who associated with the paranghis were prostitutes, pimps and similar characters living on the fringes of Hindu Society.” Goel explains the indifference which Hindus showed to the Christian missionaries: “To an average Hindu, saintliness signified a calm self-possession and contemplative silence. The paroxysms of these strangers could only amuse him, whenever they did not leave him dead cold.” Finally Goel mentions the problem which continues to face the Christians: “Christianity had failed to register as a religion with the masses as well as the classes of Hindu society. They continued to look at this imported creed as an imposition with the help of British bayonets.”
It is against this background that any activities of the Christians are viewed. The early missionaries were not at all above acquiring converts by force, money or deception. And it’s reported that unscrupulous tactics still abound. The present Catholic ashrams have inherited a history of intrigue and subterfuge. Here is a description from the Madhya Pradesh Report: “Robert De Nobili (a Catholic Jesuit priest) appeared in Madura in 1607 clad in the saffron robes of a Sadhu with sandal paste on his forehead and the sacred thread on his body. He gave out that he was a Brahmin from Rome. He showed documentary evidence to prove that he belonged to a clan that had migrated from ancient India. He declared that he was bringing a message which had been taught in India by Indian ascetics of yore and that he was only restoring to Hindus one of their lost sacred books, namely the 5th Veda, called Yeshurveda [Jesus Veda]. It passed for a genuine work until the Protestant Missionaries exposed the fraud about the year 1840. This Brahmin Sannyasi of the ‘Roman Gotram,’ Father De Nobili, worked for 40 years and died at the ripe age of 89 in 1656. It is said that he had converted about a lakh of persons but they all melted away after his death.”
Critics also point to more recent examples of hidden motives in establishing ashrams and adopting the appearance of sannyasins. Noted Indian writer Ram Swarup in his pamphlet “Liberal” Christianity quotes the intentions of one of the founders of Shantivanam, Father J. Monchanin: “Fr. J. Monchanin himself defines his mission in these terms: ‘I have come to India for no other purpose than to awaken in a few souls the desire (the passion) to raise up a Christian India. It will take centuries, sacrificed lives and we shall perhaps die before seeing any realizations. A Christian India, completely Indian and completely Christian will be something so wonderful, the sacrifice of our lives is not too much to ask.”
It is precisely this goal, which can only be described as the spiritual genocide of Hindu dharma, which motivates leaders like Swarup and movements like VHP and RSS to protect India’s religious traditions against overt conversion efforts.
The Catholic Response
Catholic leaders Hinduism Today spoke with consider all of these complaints to be problems of the past. Father John Keane, Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs officer of the Archdiocese of San Francisco said, “The main thrust of Pope John Paul II is “irrevocable commitment’ to the unity of the Churches [the various Christian sects] and to fostering dialogue and cooperation amongst the religions of the world. The Church began to realize that within non-Christian religions there is truth, there is goodness and there is beauty and it is about time we began to recognize it. Whatever policies were directed toward non-Christian religions before, the Church has said [through the Second Vatican Council], are not according to what the Church through Jesus Christ has been trying to say.” In other words, the Church has seen the errors of its ways.
When asked about militant or devious conversion tactics, he said, “Well, you know they’re called ‘Rice Christians.’ The Church is getting nowhere though that. That type of missionary zeal is no longer really appreciated. We don’t make friends with anyone by doing those kind of things. What [I have explained] is the official attitude of the Roman Catholic Church towards the Hindu tradition. If anyone in India feels that the Hindu tradition is pagan and has to be rubbed out, ignored or fought against violently, they haven’t understood what the Vatican Council is trying to say.”
Vatican II
The widespread support for these Catholic ashrams by the official Church is one part of the vast fall-out from the Second Vatican Council (Vatican II) held from 1962 to 1965. Vatican II was an attempt to confront the challenge of Catholicism in the 20th century, yet it apparently precipitated, through its decision, an even greater crisis than it intended to solve. Many new interpretations of doctrine were set forth – one on non-Christians was a major one. As a result of numerous fundamental changes, the Catholic Church faces a crisis within itself. In America alone the Catholic Church is loosing members at the rate of one thousand per day. In 1984 in the United States 1,100 new priests were ordained compared with 14,000 in 1964. The conclusions from these figures is drawn by such persons as Bishop Jon Diegel of the American Catholic Church of the Malabar Rite: for its very survival, the Catholic Church must make an impact in Asia and Africa before it dwindles in the West.
One result of Vatican II was a new attitude toward Hinduism and other religions, released by Pope Paul VI in 1964: “[The Church] regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.”
In regard to Hinduism, he stated: “In Hinduism men explore the divine mystery and express it both in the limitless riches of myth and the accurately defined insights of philosophy. They seek release from the trials of the present life by ascetical practices, profound meditation and recourse to God in confidence and love.”
Vatican II’s new Code of Canon Law offers this definition of dialogue: “By the witness of their lives and their message, let the missionaries enter into a sincere dialogue with those who do not yet believe in Christ. Accommodating their approach to the mentality and culture of their audience, they will open up the way for them to reach the point where they are ready to accept the Good News [the Gospel of Christ].”
Inculturation has become a very central aspect of the relation of the Church to Asia and Africa and is the basis for the present existence of Catholic ashrams. A thorough exposition of the idea was made by the Third General Conference of Latin American Bishops in January of 1978. Here are statements from their report:
“The Church must make the attempt to translate the Gospel message into the anthropological language and symbols of the culture into which it is inserted. This is what is meant by inculturation of the Gospel. Yet the Church ought also to regard culture with a critical eye, denouncing sin and amending, purifying and exorcizing its countervalues and overthrowing its idolatrous values. The Church leads people on to abandon false ideas of God, unnatural behavior and the illegitimate manipulation of person by person. The Church inspires local cultures to accept through faith the lordship of Christ, without whose grace and truth, they would be unable to reach their full stature.” Translation: “Let them keep those cultural forms we approve, but make them Catholics.”
In a lengthy interview with Hinduism Today, Father Frank Podgorski, Director of Asian Area Studies at Seton Hall University, New Jersey spoke on the subject of the new approach of the Catholic Church. He is a noted scholar in Asian studies and the author of the popular book, Hinduism: A Beautiful Mosaic. He said, “I don’t deny that there have been difficulties in the past, and that there are difficulties in the reality of the present. But as part of the official Church thrust today, there is a call for reverence, respect, a call for making the Hindu a better Hindu, allowing the Hindu to be a better Hindu. In Africa, in recent days, after the India trip, Pope John-Paul II called for a truly African Church to emerge. An African Church in which the African spirit would enter in and enrich the Church and make it more catholic and by that he talks about basic customs entering into the tradition of the Church. Now we’re not talking about changing the Church theologically, we’re talking really about adapting the natural habits in such a way so that the teaching of Christ, so that Christ may more fully communicate with the spirit of Africa and that means adapting natural prayer forms and things of that nature. So just as yoga may be adapted, so may various other ways.” Father Podgorski’s statement that “we’re not talking about changing the Church theologically” is crucial and fraught with ramifications for the Hindu. As long as the Catholic church continues to claim a divine monopoly on salvation, its tolerance for other faiths will be incomplete and its adaptation to other religions only superficial adjustments for the purpose of expansion.
Vatican II made the Church’s ultimate stance crystal clear: “[The Council] relies on sacred Scripture and Tradition in teaching that this pilgrim Church is necessary for salvation. Christ alone is the mediator of salvation and the way of salvation. He presents himself to us in his Body, which is the Church. When he insisted expressly on the necessity for faith and baptism, he asserted at the same time the necessity for the Church which men would enter by the gateway of baptism. This means that it would be impossible for men to be saved if they refused to enter or to remain in the Catholic Church, unless they were unaware that her foundation by God through Jesus Christ made it a necessity.”
It is difficult for the Hindu to reconcile this statement with the declaration on Non-Christian religions made by the same council. Clearly while striving for true tolerance, the Church is still anchored by its fundamental “one path, one church” dogma. On the one hand the Church admits that there is truth and beauty in other religions. On the other it declares the Catholic Church essential for salvation.
Practical Applications of Dialogue and Inculturation
Hindus who have heard these semantic posturing and seen Hindu children slowly drawn away from their faith criticize this approach as clever maneuvering. Ram Swarup in his “Liberal” Christianity pamphlet notes: “Their procedure is not to denounce Hinduism forthright; it is to take different categories of Hindu thinking and ‘after exhausting all the positive points that Hinduism provides as solutions, proceed to show that Christianity gives fuller and ultimate solution to those and all other problem.’” He has quoted here from the book entitled Indian Inferiority and Christian Theology which is a summary of a meeting by Christian theologians of India at Almora. Swarup recounts their evaluation of Bhakti: ‘Hindu Bhakti too has more demerits than merits. Its chief defects are that (1) ‘the notion of love itself is not perfect;’ (2) ‘there is no integration between knowledge and love,’ – one has to choose between them; and (3) it lacks a ‘perfect concept of alterity [that God and His creation are separate] and there is no proper concept of sin.’ Nevertheless, the Bhakti of a Hindu could still be a ‘preparation for the final confrontation with the personal God who manifests Himself in the Christian Revelation.’ “Swarup, who considers his religion the most enlightened known to man, is offended by the Almora conclusions.
A comparison might best illustrate Hindu concerns. Let us imagine that one day a Muslim missionary arrives in a poor section of America such as a part of the Catholic Hispanic (Mexican origin) section of San Francisco. Well supplied with zeal and petro-dollars from his own country, he learns Spanish, builds a Muslim cathedral along the lines of a Catholic building, outfitting it with pews, organs, choirs and so forth. Preaching from a Christian Bible appropriately edited according to the Koran, he puts on the clerical collar and black robes of a Catholic Priest and holds Sunday services which look just like Mass, except that prayers are to Allah and Mohammed instead of Jesus. In ministering to the local people, he tells them that his Islamic faith is just a slight variation of Christianity, one which puts the crowning touches on it. Their father’s religion, Catholicism was, he says, flawed but it is a good preparation for Islam. He gives loans to those in need, which need not be repaid if one joins his Church. He opens an orphanage and raises the children as Muslims though their parents are Christians. When accused of deceiving the people, he says he is only adapting his religion to the local context and expressing his Muslim charity and divine call to evangelize.
In this situation, would not the local Catholic leaders be offended? Would they not point out that this preacher was making an unfair and undue impact because of his foreign funding? They would ask why he did not simply come forward as he was, a Muslim, and not pretend that his religion was only an “improved” version of Christianity. They would challenge his right to wear the vestments their community honored, to sing the hymns their community honored, to sing the hymns their mystics composed, usurp symbols held to be holy, to draw their people away from Christ, thereby dividing the families and pitting wife against husband, father against son, and neighbor against neighbor.
This is the situation the Hindu finds himself in, though it has developed over several hundred years. Christian missionaries have adopted Hindu ways of life, Hindu religious symbols, architecture, worship forms and declared themselves as Swamis. A Catholic priest who calls himself “swami” instantly attains the status and authority of a holy man in Hindu society, which he can use to make converts. By using Sanskrit terminology in his sermons he implies a close relationship of Hindu theology to Catholic theology, a relationship which does not really exist. Such missionaries speak authoritatively on Hindu scriptures and argue that their teachings are consonant with everything Hindu, but add a finishing touch, a “fulness,” to the traditional faith.
Hindus are seriously questioning whether yoga, puja, and sannyas, which are so deeply rooted in particular Hindu theological concepts, can ethically be adopted by Christianity. Christians don’t believe in the practice of Yoga as the means to God-Realization – as taught by Hindus. Puja is based upon an understanding of Gods and Devas which Catholics do not share. And finally sannyas is Hindu monasticism, rooted in Hindu beliefs, leading not to heaven and Jesus but to moksha – the Hindu’s realization of Absolute Truth.
The Future
As the 21st century nears, Catholics are more interested than ever in India and in Hinduism, as indicated the Pope’s January visit to the sub-continent and by a growing number of faculty and departments in US Catholic universities dedicated to Asian Studies. As they have drawn closer to Hinduism, their history and motives in India and elsewhere have come under scrutiny.
Hindu spiritual leaders and intellectuals are open to the dialogue Catholics seek, but not if cooperation and brotherliness opens Hindu families to unethical conversion strategies. Obviously, the Catholic Church will legitimately adopt certain outer forms from Indian culture to serve existing members, but these have ethical limits. Among those actions of the Church which Hindus consider exceed these limits are the priests’ and nuns’ adoption of Hindu vestments and religious titles like “swami” and participation in non-Catholic sacraments such as sannyas. The misleading use of Hindu scripture and yoga teachings must also be examined, as should Catholic use of social and educational services which should not subtly erode Hindu faith or take advantage of Indian poverty to convert. Ethical guidelines must be crafted that allow Catholics to attend wholly to their members spiritual needs, but do not impinge unscrupulously on Hindus.
Hindus continue to be wary of Christian expansionism and criticism of Hindu culture and theology. An energetic Hindu renaissance has turned wariness into open challenge to Christian conversions, with results yet to be seen. Still, Hindus respect all the great faiths, honor their spirituality. The difference today is that they demand that the Sanatana Dharma be equally respected and honored in the Vedic spirit of “Truth is one, paths are many.”
January 13, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Mathematics in Ancient India
robinstewart
http://www.robinstewart.com/personal/learn/indiamath/index.html
http://www.robinstewart.com/personal/learn/indiamath/index.html
robinstewart’s
conclusion–
The essence of what I am saying is that the world is filled with eurocentric scholars who believe that Indian pagan religions, and the math that goes along with them, could not have been the basis of their high monotheistic culture. Although these scholars have been convinced that this is true ever since “the Christian religion effectively monopolized schools and universities in medieval Europe,”19 modern evidence is proving more and more of it wrong. I find it unbelievable how little work has been done in the field; and just offensive the fact that the vast majority of the work has been done only by Indians.20 Most of the books on the subject are written in Sanskrit or Hindi.
So I conclude that, not only does it seem that “there is still much scope for the study of Vedic Mathematics,”21 but that it definitely should be studied since there is so much evidence that Indian math played such a large role in the history of mathematics. Much more work can and should be done to analyze ancient documents and to look for archaeological evidence of this very intelligent society.
January 13, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Mathematics in Ancient India
robinstewart
http://www.robinstewart.com/personal/learn/indiamath/index.html
January 13, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Inculturation – evil subjugation to fascist satanic pagan legends, myths and chauvinist identities made by masonic modernist Vatican II to promote syncretic “one world religion” and “one world order” by mixing good Holy Mass/Catholic Church with evil occult halloween/yoga/walpurgis paganism = witchcraft/magick/sorcery.
Proto-Indo-Europeization – restoring of holy Adamic/Heavenly original Godful culture made possible only by God, but through Anne Catherine Emmerich: http : / / indo-european.eu / wiki / index . php / Adamic_language – ¡¡¡thank You God for this Grace!!! – by inversion of tongue confusion made at Babel applicable now only to faithful Catholics, but to others only after their conversion to Catholicism to keep confusion’s goal=preventing satanic “new world order” and “new world religion” unity.
January 13, 2009 at 8:38 pm
PIE dude why do you have to post in this form..?
this topic is not about paganism?is it?
January 13, 2009 at 11:19 pm
This whole NWO/NWR topic – except all Holy Catholic Declarations placed here – is almost exclusively about hinduism being on par with “Blair Witch”/”Blair Wizard” secred British occult project, thus about paganism. Your vedas and upanishads are on par with “Satanic Book”/”Satanic Writing” of Anton Shandor la Vey” and “Devil’s Notebook” of Alisteir Crowley.
You already are promoting other occult black magick grimoires such as:
“Aradia, or the Black Spell of the Witches and Wizards”
“Black Pullet”
“The Book of Ceremonial Magick”
“Grand Grimoire”
“Vedic Grimoire”
“Munich Manual of Demonic Magic”
“Necronomicon”
“Necronomicon of Exmortal”
“Picatrix”
“Sworn Book of Upanishad”
January 14, 2009 at 12:27 am
merdes d’cochon
peignoir=kamasutra
grimoir=veda
boudoir=ashrama
January 14, 2009 at 2:49 am
merdes d’cochon
abattoir=swastu
卐ｉ卐卐卐
卐ｒ卐ａｂ
卐卐卍卐卐
ｔｏ卐ａ卐
卐卐卐ｔ卐
January 14, 2009 at 4:11 am
Very refreshing inputs on Sanskrit. Our setup has around 50.000 manuscripts collected over a period but tucked away unexplored. I looking for some support so that these rare documents can be analysed ,graded and catalogued so that the benefit of these can be available for research scholars.These are located in a remote place in India and we do not have any Sanskrit scholars who could undertake this exercise.My idea is to make these available digitally over the net so that these can be accessed with ease. All we have been able to do is to carry out preservation activity with the help of Govt of India . If some lovers of Sanskrit and ancient Indian civilisation can come forward with suggestions or help we wpuld be most obliged. I am presently in Cincinnati till 28th Jan . Thank you
January 14, 2009 at 9:27 am
every one deserves gyan because it helps you to understand the awesome ness of life.
January 14, 2009 at 9:36 am
venkat that site about ancient indian math is awesome,i think it is truthful and reasonable.
January 14, 2009 at 2:41 pm
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January 14, 2009 at 2:42 pm
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January 14, 2009 at 3:07 pm
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January 14, 2009 at 3:07 pm
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January 14, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Vichy = honte
http : / / en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Vichy_France
Nazi = merde
January 14, 2009 at 6:59 pm
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January 14, 2009 at 7:00 pm
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January 14, 2009 at 7:19 pm
Le nazisme doivent être éliminées par des peines de capital:
potence pendaison
guillotine
lacet étrangleur
January 14, 2009 at 11:13 pm
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January 15, 2009 at 1:06 am
ＩＡ ＰＲ
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Bharatiya Janata Party BJP
Shiv Sena ↯↯
Akhil Bharatiya Hindu Mahasabha ABHM
Bharatiya Jana Sangh BJS
Ram Rajya Parishad RRP
January 15, 2009 at 1:12 am
卍 ⌖ 卐
↯↯ ☠ ↯A
January 15, 2009 at 1:17 am
nazisme=communisme=cochon=merde
卐=卍=☭=★
January 15, 2009 at 1:22 am
↯↯ Shiv☠Sena ↯↯
↯A Sindhu⌖Arya ↯A
January 15, 2009 at 1:35 am
↯↯ est l’Schutzstaffel
↯A est l’Sturmabteilung
☠ est l’Totenkopf
⌖ est l’Keltenkreuz
卐 est l’Hackenkreuz
卍 est l’Kreuzenhack
“THE ARYAN” est l’naziste maçonnique.
January 15, 2009 at 2:02 am
It’s shame that today’s Indo-Germans are applying to themselves evil occult self-nazification, self-paganization and self-fascification, while they as Proto-Indo-Germans were once Worldwide Adamic People of Catholic God. Indo-Germans, abandon fascism! Abandon paganism! Abandon nazism! Become Adamic Catholic Proto-Indo-Germans talking Adamic Catholic Proto-Indo-Germanic again! God tells you here by Anne Catherine Emmerich how to abandon confusion of tongues as reward for permanent conversion to Catholic God! PLEASE DO THAT ALL NOW!!! http : / / indo-european.eu / wiki / index.php / Adamic_language
nazism and fascism are nothing!
CATHOLIC GOD IS EVERYTHING!
January 15, 2009 at 3:07 am
http : / / gzhendovich . gudkajnd-terri . ru / Krepostx_treh_kolodtsev / epage1 . html
http : / / www . kuzbass . ru / moshkow / lat / RAZNOE / fantakrimmega1 . txt
THUS SPAKE VALHAR SVENTHOR
HINTS ON PRACTICAL SPIRITUAL MILITARITY
VIRGENGAARD TIRIEN, 50 YEARS AFTER FINAL LIBERATION FROM ALIEN HARANE OCCUPATION
Fourteen hundred years before final crushing of Harane at Imselv Plate on our planet Verangen, a great Vahnorsk philosopher, Jarl Sigurd from the same planet Verangen, but from land Izell made a systematic study of war psychology in order to give man a practical framework in which to shape his fighting life. For it was clear to him that man’s actions sprang from his mind, and it was only there that man’s understanding of himself and control of his destiny could begin. Looking at workings of the mind, we see that it is conditioned by memories and experiences. And we see too, that memories of the past, some of the present lifetime itself, and some from a remote past, inscribed into our genetic or cultural inheritance, lie forgotten and submerged in the unconscious, beneath the conscious, and yet exert a powerful influence over it, for both good Drakkars and bad Krankaars.
“On some other occasions, I told you the definition of Jarl and man. Man is an warrior; and Jarl is an leader. He works through all hands, sees through all eyes, walks on all feet, breathes through all bodies, speaks through every mouth and thinks through every brain. Man can become like Jarl and acquire control over the whole ice universe, if he multiplies infinitely his servitude to Jarl. Self-defending consciousness, therefore, is the chief thing to understand…… ”
“Practical psychology directs, first of all, it’s energies in controlling the unconscious, and we know that we can do it. Why ? Because we know that the cause of the unconscious is the self-defending conscious; the unconscious thoughts are the submerged millions of our self-defending conscious thoughts, old self-defending conscious actions become petrified —-we do not look at them, we do not know them, have forgotten them………. if the power of evil Harane is in the subconscious, so also is the power of good Verangersk …… True war psychology would therefore try to bring them under the control of the conscious defense and offense. The great task is to revive the whole man, as it were, in order to make him the complete master of himself………..”
“This is the first part of the study, the control of the unconscious. The next is to go beyond the self-defending conscious. Just as unconscious work is beneath consciousness, so there is another work which is above consciousness. When this super-conscious Harane-aware state is reached, man becomes free and thwarts Harane forever hundred thousands light years away from our ancient homeworld of Verangen; death becomes immortality, weakness becomes infinite power, and iron bondage becomes liberty, when we are reclaiming our ancient Aerskjoll sword from evil Harane. Ingareth Assatur! That is the goal, the infinite realm of the super- conscious Ice Universe.”
“….. But it is so hard to reach the goal, yet even the smallest attempts are not in vain …….. He who desires a comfortable and nice life, and at the same time, wants to realise the Self, is like the fool who lost Aerskjoll sword, making our defeat from Harane possible, who, wanting to cross the river, caught hold of a dragon, mistaking it for a log of wood …… ” (Valhar Sventhor – at Virgengaard Tirien, 100 year after defeating Harane)
“…… The greatest help to spiritual life is war meditation (while using sword Aerskjoll). In war meditation, we divest ourselves of all material conditions and feel our Old-Celversk nature….. The less the thought of the body, the better. For it is the body that drags us down. It is attachment, identification that makes us miserable. “That is the secret : To think that I am the spirit and not the body, and that the whole of this Ice Universe with all it’s relations, with all it’s good, with all it’s evil, is but a series of paintings made in ancient Celversk times on planet Verangen 4000 years ago — scenes on a canvas — of which I am the Witness of Verangen and Vahnor.” INGARETH! INGARETH ASSATUR!!!
http : / / www . kuzbass . ru / moshkow / lat / RAZNOE / fantakrimmega1 . txt
http : / / gzhendovich . gudkajnd-terri . ru / Krepostx_treh_kolodtsev / epage1 . html