If you told me PJ Joseph, Kerala’s Minister of PWD, molested a cow, behaved inappropriately with a coconut, bored you to death with his singing. I would believe you. No questions asked.
I know first hand how ‘mental’ this guy is about cows, organic farming and his own voice (it is so evident that someone made the mistake of telling him that he sings well!)
But behave inappropriately with a woman on a plane as it is about to take off. I really don’t think so.
Just three days after he was cleared in the Maithri housing project. ‘A woman’ (she doesn’t want to be named) has complained to Kingfisher airlines – the King of good times, that ” a VIP behaved inappropriately with her” just before the plane was about to take off.
She claims the incident occurred on the 3rd of August. Not a single person spoke about the alleged incident till today. Why? Do you think the situation has got so bad in Kerala that a minister can do or say something ‘inappropriate’ in public with a woman?
It’s sad that political parties are using women and sex to attack their opponents. The longer this trend last, the more damaging it is for legitimate complaints from women.
If ‘this woman’ is so sure. Why isn’t she lodging a complaint? File an FIR. Let’s investigate. Why are you using the media to tarnish the image of a cow loving grandfather?
Do you have something to hide?
August 23, 2006 at 9:28 pm
It’s a funny post Chacko….I liked it.
I feel sad for the old man too
August 23, 2006 at 11:25 pm
I’m glad you liked it. It’s not often that the truth is funny
August 24, 2006 at 1:44 pm
It is really a senseless allegation from a set pig-headed people. Mr P.C George should must concentrate in his constituency, it seems his job is only allegation.
What molestation you can do to a 53 year old woman. She must be hyper-sensitive.
It is dirty politics. It is shameless our politions are so blind and lack common sense to make out what is sensible for an animal.
August 24, 2006 at 2:35 pm
True Francis. We should also remember that it’s us who elect these politicians. Unless we change by voting and identifying he right candidates nothing will change.
August 30, 2006 at 2:49 pm
Few questions remain unanswered.
(1)Why this great minister dont sit on the seat allotted to him and selected a seat behind this lady. It could be considered a casual happening if this allegation did not take place.
(2)Why he denied first that there was no such incident in the plane and then confessed that his fingure might have touched the lady
(3) As he is a serious public worker he has the duty to enquire about these type of incidents in a plane or any public place with his presence. If he is the culprit he has the obligation to prove or atleast declare himself at the place itself that he is innocent in the matter.He simply sat unaware by reading a newspaper (or covering his face with news paper). What will be the response of a normal man in a bus or a train if a co passenger put such an alligation? Will he sat simply without any response?
(3)Every lady can undestand an unintentional touch and as she complained, there might be something serious or she is pre planned for this conspiracy. If conspiracy the police can easily prove it.
(4)Why the minister is charged with some similar incidents occured during his visit to Germany which was in air even before his elections
August 30, 2006 at 3:37 pm
Lekha,
I’m glad you raised these questions, I’m not a KC spokesperson but based on my knowledge, here are some answers.
1. He is scared of flying. He likes to sit next to the window. He grabs the front seat whenever the flight takes off and lands.
2. He never denied the incident. He denied he “sexually misbehaved” with a woman.
3. I wasn’t on the plan, I don’t this you were too. So let’s not get into the sequence of events based on hear say. The minister choose to remain calm because he didn’t want this issue to get out of hand.
4. This incident took place on the thrid of August. Can this lady please tell us why she had to wait till the 19th to tell the media about this. To date she has not made a single complaint with the police. Why not file an FIR? The women, Lakshmi Gopinath, is a journalist and a television news reader, why didn’t she raise the issue then?
5. It’s easy to accuse and point fingers. He was never charged with anything. Please be kind enough to state the details of this incident. His son works in Europe as a programmer, he went there to visit his grandchild. It’s sick. He a 64 year old grandfather on a trip to see his grandchild along with his WIFE!
You have no idea how damaging this is not just for him politically, but also for the members his family.
August 30, 2006 at 4:17 pm
Jacob, sorry for saying this but u really sound like a major Joseph supporter.I think u should be a little less prejudiced coz none of us know the truth.Do not go just by his image.Maybe we should the lady in question the benefit of the doubt.
August 30, 2006 at 4:24 pm
I’m not just a supporter. I know this man and his family personally. The first thing Mr Joseph did when this woman went to the media was to ask the CM for a full investigation. We will know the outcome in a week. I’ll give her the ‘benefit of doubt’. can she undo the harm she has done to a family?
August 31, 2006 at 2:40 pm
and exactly how well do u know this family?i am not disputing the fact that he could be a clena man but perhaps some action of his might have offended the woman in question.
August 31, 2006 at 3:21 pm
Well enough to know that he wouldn’t “misbehave” with a 40+ woman sitting in front of him during take off. What are the ways in which a person 60+ can misbehave with a woman with her husband by her side when both are seat belted? If she has filed an FIR on the very same day, I would given her the benifit of the doubt. She has raised this with the media for purely political reasons.
August 31, 2006 at 3:48 pm
has she got any political connections?
August 31, 2006 at 3:59 pm
Her husband is a close buddy of the guy PJ Joseph trashed in the last elections.
August 31, 2006 at 4:01 pm
Ah!This smells like a rat.
September 4, 2006 at 6:16 pm
Now the investigation report came. What this guy say now about the alleged conspiracy? No media has found that the husband is a friend of Mr. P. J. Joseph’s opponent in the election. Even the IPS officer did not find any phone calls made between them before or after the incident. This great chacko finds that they are close buddies.
One simple question to the supporters of this hipocratic leader. Do anyone fully open and read a news paper before the lights have come or even at the very moment when the lights are switched on. When the lights are switched on, one can take the news paper and start opening it. But fully spread and reading it, covering the face can not happen for my common sense. It means that he has done some mischief and was in an attempt to hide his face from others.
P. J. Joseph is not a common man. He has the obligation to public even in his personal affairs. Why didn’t he revealed to the public that some unhealthy incidents occured during his plain journey and a lady was ‘misunderstood’ by his behavior. Or he could have told to the Chief Minister atleast within a fortnight minimum. He was thinking that it also will end up as in the case of the Germany jouney. More over the lady is not a wife of his Mandalam President or party leader and it will not do any harm to his party even, as the Germany Journey incident resulted in the resignation of a Mandalam President who complained against the molestation of this great leader to his wife.
I am ready to forgive P. J. Joseph for this incident. But he had done two dirty mistakes which can not be forgiven.
(1) He made an allegation about the lady that she is link in a conspiracy even after molesting her. [I think that this lady behaved in a maximum decent manner, she just gave a complaint to the airlines company and never revealed anything to the media as Mr. Jacob says. It was the media that approached her and asked about the incident. Still then she through her husband only say something to the media in the same way as a woman from a noble family do]
(2) He charged his political opponents for his illmanners. Also he misused this incident to give the wrong impression that he was declared by the court as innocent, while the court is yet to give its verdict in both the cases. [Why nobody is seeing the condempt of court in this?]
I am least bothered for the political gain or loss in this case for ruling or opposition. The only matter of my concern is that a lady who kept decent manners in such an ugly incident is again molested by this Chacko and Jacob through this forum.
Finally a LOL to Mr. Jacobs comment that the Minister is scared of flying. Do you know which minister of Kerala has done maximum number of plain journeys. Don’t you Mr. Jacob know also that there were many window seats vacant in the plain other than this beloved seat. And let the investigation say that the seat allotted to him also was a window seat. I dont know this or the numbering scheme of plain seats. (I only know the numbering schemes of the KSRTC buses and Trains of Indian Railway)
September 4, 2006 at 6:48 pm
Hello Lekha,
Have you heard about reading lights in Airplanes?
According to the report, it happened during take off. And the lady(i think her husband) said that some body came and sat behind her when the plane was about to depart. That means, between PJ occupying the seat and the so called mis-behaviour there is probably 10 to 15 minutes gap. For any common man to indulge in such an activity, I feel 10 mins is too short a time.(That’s plain psychology).
The kind of turbulance that you experience when the plane is taking off!!!! molestation would be the last thing that would come to anyone’s mind. Just imagine…the aircraft speeding upto 250 to 300 km /hr, then taking off(the weightlessness that you feel while it takes off), then the turning of the aircraft towards the destination (normally the aircraft slants some 45 degrees to the side to change direction), and all this time it will be in a 45 degree upward angle…..
In between all these a molestation!!!!!!!???
Another thing, it was a flight to Kerala and a Kerala minister surrounded by mallus…he must be either stupid or dumb to do such a thing in public.
A co passenger (a doctor i believe) reportedly said that few passengers convinced the lady that nothing of that sort will happen from a man like PJ and he also commended that the problem would have been solved with a simple appology.
A problem that could have been solved by a simple appology is now reached till the minister’s resignantion. Even the husband guy also commended about this appology factor once.
What could have happened is, a little bit of over reaction from the lady. An enormous over indulgence from the husband… Now they have to stand their grounds by sticking on to the allegation…..
Sad state of things….
September 4, 2006 at 6:53 pm
OK chacko, you have some explaining to do.
September 4, 2006 at 7:23 pm
I will sure do Woke. Just waiting to land in London before I make a detailed response (I don’t want to be writing about ‘misbehaving on planes when I’m on a plane – especially, when my boarding pass reads ‘PJ Joseph’
)
September 4, 2006 at 8:17 pm
By the way….
Lekha,
you asked
“Why didn’t he revealed to the public that some unhealthy incidents occured during his plain journey and a lady was ‘misunderstood’ by his behavior.?”
And you also said that the woman kept SILENT beacuse she is from a NOBLE FAMILY and hence didn’t want to make an issue.
Won’t the same logic apply to PJ also?!!! Why should he report such a silly incident and make a big issue out of that, tarnishing his and the lady’s reputation??? So when he keeps quiet, how does that make him indescent???!!!
I need some Logic??!!!
Another thing about the Germany incident: Please do not just quote any thing people blabber in press conferences without knowing the truth. If such a thing had happened do u think the media would have ignored it then???? Looking at the events now, I don’t think so…
By the way the person who brought this issue to public was, of all the people, Miss Sanimol Usman….. How did she come to know about the so called top secret complaint??…Talking about that, the complaint was just a comment on the feedback form that you get on flights…..which the pilot submitted to the ground staff….Sanimol must be a big gun at the Nedumbassery Airport!!!!!!that she gets info on all the incidents happening there…that too after three weeks…..!!!!!!
Iam fuming with anger now…so better stop here…..
September 4, 2006 at 8:22 pm
Ajax, don’t give in to anger. Let’s channel our energy elsewhere. This is not the first time PJ Joseph has been targetted, he will get past this too. My detailed post will follow shortly…
September 5, 2006 at 12:54 am
The latest news is that, the minister PJ Joseph, resigned his ministerial post
I dont really believe that he misbehaved with a lady, but still we are not short of ministers misbehaving, let that be a lady IAS officer. The truth seldom come out.
As for the time being, Ajax, cool down yaar and lets all pray for the safe journey of our Mr Joseph
September 5, 2006 at 9:34 am
Hellow Mr Ajax. Please understand that what you said is against your arguments. As per the so called turbulance during take off one can simply sit and read news paper using the reading lights and only thing he can not do during this turbulance is to extend his hands to the front seat.
Hellow friends, please ask any lady (it can be your sister,wife or friend) whether a lady can recognize and distinguish between an unintentional and intentional touch of a man during a journey. Ofcourse there is a chance that the lady puposely charged Mr. Joseph as she is involved in a conspiracy. If there is a conspiracy the police can easily prove it, but the first report itself ruled out such a conspirecy.
September 5, 2006 at 9:41 am
Lekha’s comments are sharp and these guys are not answering them properly. Please answer to the points she put forward. Ofcourse it will be difficult to protect a real culprit
September 5, 2006 at 10:43 am
If a lady makes such an accusation, why is everyone is a hurry to question her credibility instead of conducting an enquiry and then deciding on it.
Regardless of whether this lady’s husband has an issue with the minister or not.
But that Joseph guy is freaking spooky man. He is making a fool of himself making all such ridiculous statements on tv.
Chacko, you better come up with a sound explanation.
September 5, 2006 at 11:31 am
True a lady can make out between an intentional touch and an unintentional one.A lady would (in normal circumstances) warn once and if repeated, then make a strong protest.In this case however i see some loop holes. Why did she not make a complaint as soon as it happened?Why wait 3 weeks? Why did she say at first that she had no complaint and then later on wait for hubby to make a statement.Not that she is uneducated.. i hear she is a journalist of some sort!!! Lots of contradictions in her statements.Thats why we need to rethink her case . Afterall men need to travel and work with women too!!!!
September 5, 2006 at 1:27 pm
Hello all,
It’s only today that I came to know that the lady’s husband also was travelling along with her and was sitting beside her…..Please use your common sense guys…A minister trying to molest a women who is travelling along with her husband?!!!!!!That too when he is sitting right next to her???
Well Lekha, the lady reported that she found the guy reading the news paper after the plane took off )and not when the plane was taking off….. She says she got up from the seat and went behind and saw the guy reading news paper (or covering his face? Today the news papers also quote the report that the incident occured just before take off….That means when the aircraft is speeding at around 300 km/hr????
Another strange thing in the report is, she says, the guy grabbed her b£!?s from behind. when it happened the first time she warned the person and then he grabbed her again….!!!!!
Gals and Guys, even a street thug will get scared and withdraw to his shell if a lady shouts at him in public for sexual offences. And this PJ guy doing it again?????? Very very hard to believe…. All these time what was her beloved husband doing????
Lekha, PJ didn’t say that the whole thing is part of a conspiracy. He said the way the things came out (after 3 weeks) is suspicious and was a result of some conspiracy. He never commended or made a statement that the lady and her husband is involved…. In fact it was the husband who first commended on TV that “It’s unfortunate that minister said that they took money” . Evidently,somebody must have purposely mislead him….If you can prove otherwise I will stop wrting here…..
September 5, 2006 at 1:45 pm
Addentum…
His exact statement was, “a person who was expelled from the party and the person who contested against him and a few congress men are involved in the conspiracy”
If you didn’t know (it was in papers) Mr. P C George (the papers didn’t mention the name but refered to him as a LDF MLA) was contacting the news reporters from second week of August onwards with this news but none of them were willing to publish it because they were doubting the authenticity. Finally he had to tie up with youth congress and Mahila congress to bring out the scoop through a press conference… We all saw that was what happened….It was Sanimol who brought the issue to public… Iam asking again…How the hell she came to know about this incident that happened inflight a Kingfisher aircraft????? That’s reason enough to suspect that there is a conspiracy behind this….I won’t say that the lady and husband are involved….Anyway the conspirators wanted this issue to be blown out of propotion and they succeeded at that….
As I mentioned in a previous post…the minsiter’s hand might have accidently touched the lady and she might have over reacted….After the fellow passengers convinced her, she calmed down and just gave a statement in the feedback form and everybody forgot about it…..Then after three weeks the scoop came out…and the husband got involved…And it led to the enquiry…Now they cannot go back on their words and have to stand their grounds….So a little bit of exaggeration on the statements……I strongly believe that’s what happened….
September 5, 2006 at 1:49 pm
This debate is really getting heated up.However before anyone jumps to any conclusions we should wait for the truth to come out.If the minister is innocent,he has nothing to fear.Why did he resign in the first place?
September 5, 2006 at 1:55 pm
Lekha
the initial investigation has not proved anything “first report ruled out any conspiracy”as stated by you is unfortunately false.The report has not been released to the media ,hearsay has it that IG sandhaya says that it may or may not have happend( we all knew that earlier, dunno how an investigation helped her come out with such an finding!!!)Find it hard to believe that PJ misbehaved when her husband was right next to her(if he used his left hand and she had the window seat then her husband was sitting on her left and the ‘distasteful’hand should have crept up between the husband’s seat and the wife’s. Thats what i find hard to believe!
September 5, 2006 at 1:58 pm
That’s a funny question……If he didn’t resign your question would have been “Why the hell he is not resigning after all that happened????” This is typical double standards of we mallus….
According to his statement, he is resigning beacuse the report cast a shadow of doubt on him and he doesn’t want to continue like that.
He also stated that he will comeback once the allegation is proved wrong (also mentioned about some “Agnishudhi” or something)
September 5, 2006 at 2:12 pm
Sorry, but i am not a Mallu.And exactly how well do u know PJ to give him a clean chit.
September 5, 2006 at 2:38 pm
Sorry refugeenot4u for that….Thought you were one too….:-)
I know him well enough to judge that it will not happen from him…..He is one of the few remaining gentlemen in Kerala politics….
A simple man (pretty rich though, ancestoral properties),singer, farmer, father of four, grandfather of four..an ardent advocate of bio farming…uncorrupt..(there were lots of allegation against him, but came out clean from all that, unlike what Lekha claims in one previous post) That’s another long story anyway…..
He also founded the Ganghiji Study Centre that conduct an Agricultural Fest every year in his native Thodupuzha….in order to boost agricultural growth….
see the link
http://www.gsckarshikamela.in/
September 5, 2006 at 3:02 pm
False info…
It seems that the report in the paper was false. The husband was not traveling along with her…Sorry for that
September 5, 2006 at 4:12 pm
Well i have my reservations about his behaviour on that flight.I wud prefer to wait and watch.
September 5, 2006 at 4:26 pm
Who said the husband was with this lady. It is only here i find it. All say she was alone in the journey, here the real molesters find that she was with her husband.
Who said she didnot complain first. It was she who first complaint to the airhostess who is the authority of the welfare of the passengers in the plain. Also she gave a written complaint to airlines company. One of the molesters here make it as a feedback form…… A feedback of the pleasures offered by the great minister
September 5, 2006 at 4:59 pm
I agree with Lekha. The lady can react only only on two circumstances
First chance is:…. There is some intentional misbehaviour took place from the part of the minister
Second Chance is:…. The lady is a link in a conspiracy
If first is the case the minister as well as his supporters here beg for a pardon.
If second is the case the police can easily find it in this technologically adwanced world and it is not the duty of the minister or his supporters here.
One more last remark… Mr Chacko who started this discussion might have thought that he could declare his Political Master as an innocent saint. Congras Lekha for enrouting the discussion in the correct path. Mr Chacko has placed the snake in the fence in his ………
September 5, 2006 at 5:07 pm
Hey Saritha,
Before posting something do read the previous ones. I had corrected the report thing about the husband. Please check my previous post…
By the way a liitle bit of politeness and decency will be very much appreciated….Who are you to call everybody who supports PJ a molester???
And it was indeed on the feed-back form that she complained…and she didn’t submit it to the airline…she handed it over to the chief flight attendant who handed it over to the pilot….you should verify things before making a comment…
September 5, 2006 at 5:13 pm
Mr. Ramanand why stop with two chances???
Third one: The minister accidently touched the lady when he grabbed the seat in front (as he claims). and the lady reacted in shock and made a big scene about it….
Don’t you think that’s a fair argument and also a less prejudiced one??
September 5, 2006 at 11:28 pm
Never Mr Ajax. No lady will react in such a manner with a single touch. Every lady can understand an unintentional touch. For an unintetional touch if she makes such an uproar means there is conspirecy. Ask any lady – if u r married your wife else your best lady friend – whether an unintentional touch will be understood by a lady. That is what Lekha says and I support. A lady will react in such a manner only if more than one attempt was made by the culprit. It seems true as she said the same to the enquiring police officer. If she says this in the case of grabing the seat by the culprit I have no doubt that there is conspiracy. I know you will not admit conspiracy because a conspircy can be easily proved by police. Mr. Minister might have thought that he could manage the enquiry officer for a report as he wish. As this did not happen, he himself got trapped in trouble. Neither the police admit conspiracy nor he could not change his stand he took first.
I am sure that some political leaders tried to ensure that the matter will not be buried. It is the same thing what Mr Achuthanandan and other LDF leaders do earlier in the case of Kunjalikkutty and P. J. Kurien. Is it conspiracy. It is only their role, which as long as they are against the culprit’s political opinion. Nobody is resposible for the illmanners of P. J. Joseph except him.
September 5, 2006 at 11:51 pm
What doubt. YOu r molesting that lady in this forum. It is more than what your leader did
September 6, 2006 at 10:01 am
I am doing the 4oth post here
The original article came on 21st. 9 days paased with 4 postings each supporting P J Joseph. On 30th, the tenth day, Lekha did a different posting. WIth 6 days the number of responses rised to 40 including mine. Congradulations to Lekha for turning this issue.
Lekha put forward arguments in a neat and specific manner. Others against her are not much systematic. Even when all the Kerala people think that gigantic corruption occured in +2 deal the supporters of PJ says he is corrupt free. What is the relevance of the Agri Fest – which he conducts in a grand way when he is in oppostion bench and in a simpler way or not even a fest when he rules – in this molestation case?
Only thing to consider in this case is his back history in dealing with ladies. The Lady Panchayath presidents, members etc of his own party will be well knowing it and let them comment in this regard. Only thing I can say is that age will not be a constraint for a molestation case. It is just because God created man including me in such a manner in his instincts and sexual desires.
The minister has some hipocratic faces. That is why he issues ridiculous statements as Woke says
September 6, 2006 at 11:16 am
Ajax,
FYI, Handing over the complaint to the flight attendant is the standard procedure.
And someone please tell Mr. P J that staying in a star hotel for months which charges Rs.5000 per day without moving to his official residence is not a very wise thing to do.
September 6, 2006 at 11:58 am
Hi all,
First I would like to clear out a few mis understandigs:
Woke, It is true that PJ was staying in Mascot Hotel TVM till last month. As the papers claim it was not for rent. It’s a govt hotel and he was staying as a Govt. guest so it was almost free of cost.
Another reason was the PWD minister is in charge of allotting houses to other ministers. After allotting to others there were no official residences left. So he had to search for a rented house. Even now two other mnisters are stying in hotels cause of the same reason. Media is not interested in that. They just included this to add masala to the whole scam.
Well Mathew, i liked your question:
What is the relevance of the Agri Fest?
Do you know that Thodupuzha is the place with the largest area of land that is Bio-certified in Kerala? Do you know what that means? The land including a few acres from PJ’s was certified by European agencies as Bio and the farmers can export the produts once they find a viable procedure. This is just one of the after effects of the Karshikamela he conducts.
Last year president Abdul Kalam inagurated this event and he is no person who just goes around ingurating stuff.He agreed after doing a thorough study on the Karshikamela activities. PJ was not even an MLA at that time…Mr President also commented about Thodupuzha’s bio farming scene in the National Science conference in Hyderabad this year.Have a link somewhere will post if interested (that I doubt:-)
More than that such melas create awareness among people. You must pay a visit next time and can see for yourself with what enthusiasm farmers are taking part in seminars and group discussions. LAst year space technology and even Nanotechnology were part of discussions and seminars.
And now the famous +2 scam. I and all the PJ supporters still say that he is not corrupt. Some in his party are. But blaming him is like saying Oomenchandy is corrupt because Vakkom Purushothaman, his party man, is heavily corrupt. What Iam trying to say is personally he is clean. But I too agree, as a responsible politician he must also make sure that all his party members are not corrupt. But you know better than me that it is almost an impossible task in our social setup. (Could be topic for another discussion!!).He has only lost money in politics. I personaly know how much land he has sold to meet expenses for both politics and this Karshikamela.
Well I know that I have heavily deviated from our main subject. sorry about that. but had to write this.
More later, lemme get back to work….
Chacko where are you???? Iam kind of getting cornered here
September 6, 2006 at 12:26 pm
Ajax,
First of all Mascot Hotel charges the government for all offcials staying there or using their services(with a discount). So it is not ‘almost’ free of cost.
Quite a co-incidence that PJ moved to his official residence (which was suddenly ready )the day after the incident in the flight happened.
Anyways, years and years of an ‘unofficial’ clean record is not enough to get reprieve from this kind of offence, if he has committed it in the first place.
September 6, 2006 at 12:47 pm
Hello saritha
Common ladies , just beacause some man comes on heavy with his argument u cannot call it molestation!!!That means everytime someone comes with a contradicting opinion we categorise it with harsh , strong and inappropriate words.Its time we (women)learnt to handle men and their strong arguments and not immdiately categorise it as “molestation”.In that case every wife gets molested at home (when arguing with hubby!),every woman worker gets molested by her male boss(just because she has to carry out his instructions!).That means all our life we are getting molested… seems an odd excuse , just because we cannot withstand some opposition!!!
And to everyone in general… Its easy to accuse someone but it would be a good idea to think for a moment abt what damage your words would cause to them in the event that the person was actually innocent.
September 6, 2006 at 1:03 pm
It was also a coincidence that it was Chingam 1(as in Chingamasam in Malayalam Calender) that day…..The previous month was Karkidakom, a month people in Kerala normally don’t move houses. Even that didn’t help him though!!!!!
About the clean record…did you read the news papers yesterday??? All were praising PJ and were commenting on how great a politican he is and blah blah. Until day before literally every media was kind of crying for his blood. The moment he resigned he again became a hero and a clean man……So please so not judge a person from what you read on the papers and what u see on visual media…..
I like that man just beacuse I know him personally…
Do you guys remember the case of Raman Srivasthava???? Media and politicians assasinated that poor chap and finally it turned out to be false….So before jumping to conclusions, PJ must atleast be given a benefit of doubt. He has now resigned and requested the CM to conduct a judicial enquiry…..So I would rather wait till the enquiry is over rather than fighting for him here…..
Till then Ciao…..
September 6, 2006 at 2:03 pm
Woke
Do u know how difficult it is to get an “unofficial”clean record for a politician from kerala ?Getting a clean record of any sort is really something ..as we mallus find it very difficult to appreciate good things in people.. faults are more readily found!!!
It is however not enough to get a reprieve IF such an offense was done!
September 6, 2006 at 2:26 pm
It is however not enough to get a reprieve IF such an offense was done!
That is precisely my point.
September 6, 2006 at 2:40 pm
hello!!!!!!!!!this is the great indian mutiny,not a battleground for mallus.
September 6, 2006 at 3:05 pm
I do not know anything about the incident. After going through all the posts, still I believe in the third thoery – “The minister accidently touched the lady …… and the lady reacted in shock and made a big scene about it….” If the incident reported was happened in a Guest House or Hotel or atleast in an icecream parlour, it would have been believable. A minister like PJ, that also in a plane while it is taking off, very difficult to beileve. If really he would have done something, as a polititian and a minister, he would have easily suppressed it just like Ice-cream parlour case.
I am a frequent traveller by train from Chennai to Kerala. During the last 10 years, I came across so many occassions, when old ladies (ages 50+)are over reacting to silly incidents happening in a jerking train and making a scene out of it. I felt on some occsions that the lady involved was waiting for some thing to shout at. The basic problem is that, once you make a scene and shout, you will always exagerate things initially knowingly and as time passes you start beiliving that what you are telling is the correct thing and never admit you have exagerated. Later, after getting cooled down, and after a re-think, you will realise your mistake, but by that time you are too late to correct it. For protecting your credibility you will purposefully exagerate the matter again and again. Same case with the husband. He initially tries to make his wife understand that the matter is a silly one, but later when polititians take over it and when the news spreads, the matter is out of his control and hence takes a U turn and supports his wife to protect their name. These are all pure psychological problems attacking our society because of Gender inequality and the false belief among ladies themselves that they are made for molestation and should be protected by gents. This type of problems are not common in North India even in undeveloped villages. Mostly it happens with highly educated and so called young ladies of Tamilnadu and Kerala with age 50+.
I hope atleast a few people who witnessed such incidents will agree with me. Lekha may have a brilliant brain of a criminal lawyer, but it does not mean that PJ molested that lady. Atleast give 50-50 chance for both.
Viju
September 6, 2006 at 4:11 pm
Hello Viju
I liked your comments. You have made a view which considers 50-50 chances. I can admit it too. If that is the case let the law and order system of our country decide which 50 is correct.
But I can not admit the dirty politics of accusing the political opponents for a conspiracy. In this case it is clear that the persons charged by the minister for conspiracy were doing there own work during the incident.
I admit Mr. Viju, there can be such behaviour from 50+ women. But you are forgetting the response of the men while such incidents occur. Have you ever witnessed an innocent man sitting simply hiding like an ostrich when the 50+ ladies react? He can atleast declare before the 23/24 passengers that he is innocent and the lady misunderstood the situation. That is every men atleast do in such a circumstance. I have more points to put here. I dont want to reveal in public because the culprit also will be knowing what are the loop holes he has not seen.
How a person is convicted even when there is no eye witnesses. It is circumstancial evidences that help the court to judge.I don’t think that I am having criminal lawers mind. I just relied on my common sense and the way in which human beings behave in such circumstances. I was reading the postings here for many days. I found that some supporters of P. J. Joseph are intentionally using this webpage for giving him a saints outlook. I have more and more issues to unveil the hipocratic leader whom his supporters personify as a saint. These issues are not relevant in this context and hence I am not disclosing it. But what you see his supporters do here. Even if Karshikamela is a great thing how can it protect Mr. P. J. Joseph from this molestation case?
What this supporters think?. Is Thodupuzha the only place in Kerala where farmers live? It is conducted in Thodupuzha only for the political mileage of P. J. Joseph and he is selfish in that too. Why can’t he arrange it at some other place in Kerala where he has some party MLAs or Ex MLAs. It is the great example of his selfishness. A lot of things are there to append to this. But I do stop here just becausr his supporters here will make my comments useful for deviating the subject and hence rescue their beloved leader.
September 6, 2006 at 5:17 pm
Hello Lekha,
Any calm person, after committing a genuine mistake, will try not to make a scene. He may tell simple a “sorry” and keep calm instead of argue with over-reacting opponent and add fuel to the fire. And normally that “sorry” will get burried in the hallabulla created by the opponent. I do not know whether PJ told sorry to that lady. But keeping calm and trying to burry face in news paper is a proof for a mistake (genuine/purposefull) that happened.
Now the circumstantial evidences have to be considered for deciding whether the mistake is genuine or purposeful. The circumstantial evidence should take care of PJs clean UNOFFICAL record as well as his other activities. A busy and hardworking person involved in such agricultural movements (may or may not be due to his selfish motives) will surely have a mind with sound and healthy frquency. He can not commit such mistakes purposefully while he is in sense.
Yes he can do it if he is intoxicated. I do not know whether PJ is a regular drinker or whether he had consumed liquor and got intoxicated on that day and committed such a mistake. Somebody here may be able to give reliable information regarding that.
When other polititians started throwing mud at him, if PJ tried to escape from that by calling it a political conspiracy, nothing new in that. That is the habbit of all polititians in any adverse circumstances. The only difference is that PJ met CM and asked for enquiry even in the absence of any complaint. Those who knew about VS and DIG Sandhya, will not tell that PJ tried to get a favorable enquiry report.
Working for his constituency is also not new. Why Railway establishments are flowing towards Bihar and Raibareli? Why most of the new trains are running though Bihar? Why Tamilnadu is getting huge fund for railway projects while neighbouring Kerala is neglected? How KSRTC buses started plying to all major towns from MALA? Again the difference is that, PJ was not diverting Govt. Money to Thodupuzha for his benifit. He was taking initiative, supporting and sustaining a mass movement in the agricultural movement, which otherwise is dying day by day. It is apprecaible even if he had done all those things with selfish motive. Please do not call me a PJ supporter. Actually I am feeling sick will all these political parties.
The point which I wanted to emphasise is that, if it is proved that he has committed this mistake puposefully (in that case, I will call it CRIME) then he should be punished. Otherwise, after all these media hype and his resignation, if it is proved that it was merely a genuine mistake which could have been excused with a simple appology, then what? That lady will not loose any thing. Everybody will forget her. Otherwise also her face was not shown by the TV Channel. Whereas, PJs loss will be heavy. Even if it was proved that it was a silly mistake, it will be a permanent black mark on his political carrier. And People of Kerala will loose a polititian who is relatively clean among other rotten eggs.
Viju
September 6, 2006 at 5:21 pm
Lekha,
FYI
Mutiny.in is only a platform for everyone of us to voice opinions. Eventhough the base article suggests the minister is innocent, everyone is welcome to disagree and post their views and we have all done so.
So if supporters of PJ are using this website to propagate their views, they are obviously making a wrong choice.
September 6, 2006 at 5:39 pm
@ Ajax: No need to be worried, I was tied up with work
@ Woke: PJ Joseph stay at Mascot hotel is a fine example of how the media can create an issue about nothing. Was he the only minister staying at the Mascot? How many days did he stay there? Is it so bad that he made sure that every minister gets a house before he got himself one? Was it a crime to wait till Chingam 1 (Malayalam new year) to mover to the new house?
@Lekha: I’m very fond of PJ Joseph and his family. But if he does something wrong, I will be the first to bring him down. To date PJ Joseph has a clean political life. I hope Lekha, that once he emerges clean from this, you and other will put politics aside and think twice before supporting these kind of allegations that can damage an enitre family’s reputation.
September 6, 2006 at 5:56 pm
Jacob,
You and neither we werent in the plane to decide whether he is innocent or not.
Personal attachments apart, the lady who made the complaint deserves a fair hearing and lets hope the truth comes out.
How considerate of him to to stay in a star hotel spending the taxpayers money to make sure every other minister gets a house. I am impressed.
September 6, 2006 at 6:55 pm
I had decided not to commend any more but have to…One of Lekha’s point’s about Krshikamela I found really amusing…
Se asked…
“What this supporters think?. …..Why can’t he arrange it at some other place in Kerala where he has some party MLAs or Ex MLAs.”
Lekha, So you want “Thodupuzha Karshika Mela” to be moved to someother place right…Ok then I demand Aluva Shiva Rathri to be moved to Kasragode or even Parasala. I also feel that the people who conduct that are too selfish that they don’t change venue’s year after year…
Now please don’t start a fight over this…Was just being sarcastic (if you haven’t understood)
September 6, 2006 at 6:59 pm
Woke, even if he stayed in a house, the tax payer would have to pay for it. The goverment pays for ministers’ house and all houses will have to meet a protocol requirement.
Mascot hotel, as Ajax pointed out, is a government hotel. His ministry is paying the bills as it would if they were to rent a house.
And based on what I know about him he didn’t become a minister to stay in a ‘star’ hotel. It would be interesting to note that off the 100 odd days he has been a minister, he has stayed in this ‘star’ hotel for less that one third of this time.
And I, as a tax payer, is not at much of a loss of the PWD ministry is paying tourism ministy for this. The money remains within the books of accounts of the Government of Kerala.
This lady or anylady deserves a fair hearing. And I did listen to her but there is the problem with that. In her statment to IG, she claimed that PJ Joseph put his hand through the seat and grabbed her left breast.
(I’m going to ignore that fact that PJ Joseph has had surgery to his left hand and can’t lift it beyond his elbow.)
I want to draw your attention something else. In his statement to the IG and the public, did PJ Joseph say he didn’t even touch the woman? did he call her a liar?
No. He gave a detailed account of what happened. He told the press and the IG, that as he grabbed the seat in front of him during take off, he accidently touched the woman in front.
Is this sexual misconduct? How long do you thing a man’s hand has to be to ‘grab the breast of a woman sitting in front while seat belted’?
I gave the woman a fair hearing Woke but I’m listening to the other side as well.
September 6, 2006 at 7:19 pm
LOL Aluva sivarathri is organised by a charitable society.
September 6, 2006 at 7:21 pm
@Lekha, sorry but? What is so ‘LOL’ about that?
September 6, 2006 at 7:32 pm
Jacob,
The expense that an official or minister incurs from Mascot Hotel is many times higher than in from rented residence. Otherwise it is convinient for all ministers to go and stay there.
My home is quite close to the hotel and all ministers from Karunakaran has used the hotel to run up monumental bills for the government.
As per the press, the IG has dismissed PJ’s four points including the weak elbow theory.
Sorry Jacob, there is a possibility that he is innocent, but I find it terribly hard to believe someone in the backseat can ‘accindentally’ touch a woman sitting in front.
September 6, 2006 at 7:55 pm
Woke, some ministers in the past might have racked up high bills but as I mentioned before, he has not even stayed there a majority of the time.
Once a government changes past MLA and Ministers are given a grace period to stay on in their accomodations. This is why they stay in hotels.
I don’t think IG Sandhya has dismissed the elblow theory. What she said was it needs to be further investigated. Again, PJ Joseph’s intentions are evident to those who know him, hard to explain to those who don’t and impossible for those who dislike him.
September 6, 2006 at 8:05 pm
[...] My earlier post about PJ Joseph has generated a lot of discussion and it’s still continuing. I have to admit (as my mutiny profile states, I’m a Kerala Congress sympathiser). I didn’t read their manifesto and decide to support them, I was born into a family closely associated with the party. To an extent why I believe PJ Joseph is innocent of any wrong doing is the fact that I know him and his family personally. And this is hard to explain to many of you. [...]
September 15, 2006 at 11:47 pm
Folks.
I happen to know this family personally. If I thought that there is even a chance that this man did something I would have refrained from writing this post. Im writing now because I know for a fact that it did’nt happen.
To answer Lekha – “Why this great minister dont sit on the seat allotted to him “. – If u fly these kinds of flights, which are under occupied, you will realise that most people go around finding a place they like. People seldom stick to whats alloted. PJ was not the only one who did it in this flight Im sure.
To all u guys who think he’s guilty. I believe you are speaking what u really believe, unlike what I read in certain other forums where some idiots just bitched with no reasoning at all. To you who wants to know the truth, think and reason twice, genuinely before you tarnish a man’s repute. It is really hard to believe that a man who’s with an apparently sound mind and accomplishment record, flying to his home state, with an operated arm, seeing a woman who’s not even young, with her husband sitting right next to her, in an aircraft full of mallus risking everything, to go and fondle her, is an extremely outrageous claim. I think if u really wan’t to reason you can see it for yourself.
Its not easy though because there are real bast**** out there and u need to really make the few goods out. Don’t deprive your state of the few good statesmen it has.
I dont mind anyone writing to me directly.
Cheers,
Roy – roy.alexander@gmail.com
September 15, 2006 at 11:48 pm
btw nice post chacko. Got me lauging.
September 16, 2006 at 9:17 pm
[...] I know I have used a variation of that headline before for the PJ Joseph issue but this is a totally different issue [...]
September 17, 2006 at 1:35 pm
Hmmm there seems to be quite a few people here who happens to know PJ personally.
I dont think anyone here categorically said PJ is guilty. It all pointed out to the fact that the lady in question deserves a fair hearing as much as PJ does. Also the fact ‘officially good statemen’ are guaranteed to behave appropiately always.
Let the truth come out(hopefully) after a fair trial.
September 17, 2006 at 11:37 pm
I hope the enquiry is detailed, fair and honest.
September 19, 2006 at 12:32 pm
I hope the enquiry is FAIR and Honest too!These qualites are hard to find these days… so i hope PJ gets a fair hearing too! The media seems to be very eager to protect the lady!Well, i personally , still believe both are decent people and the whole thing is a misunderstanding blown WAY OUT OF PROPORTION by the media for their gains!The common man (considering the results of the online polls conducted by various newspapers on this issue), as i understand, is also of the same opinion!
September 19, 2006 at 12:43 pm
Diya, can you share the links to these online polls?
September 19, 2006 at 1:32 pm
Chacko,
The opinion polls were on the malayalam newspaper websites during the week when this news first came out!The malayalam newspapers were manoramaonline and kerala kaumudi!
But sorry chacko, i dont know how to find the links to the opinion polls from the back issues of these newspapers?? I think its not possible!!!
October 1, 2006 at 9:05 am
After going through the series of comments made by various readers ,I may a post my opinion for the first time.
As a close observer of political scenario in kerala state I dont believe Mr. joseph who is known for his integrity cutting across political spectrum and whose political career spreads out to more than 3and a half decades and held almost all major portfolios in keral govt.excluding Chief minister ship and Finance had a malafide intention in this event.It is also should be noted that to grope the left breast of a lady sitting in front of an aircraft whose seats have head rests and that took while plane taking off is not possible .For a person with common sense can infer that it is not even possible in a luxury bus(volvo type).and that too as aperson who underwent a complicated surgery hardly two months before this event occured.Neither the congress nor udf has the moral right to demand his resignation.If he was a womaniser why they made him the founder convenor of udf at its formation in 1980 and entrusted several major portfolios during 1980-1987?
During the last udf ministry 2001-2006 a woman alleged that Mr.G karthikeyan then minister for civil supplies and culture and his (Late)brother had sex with her offering a job, and he didnt resign In october-december 2004 when regina made a revelation against Mr.Kunjalikutty, Industries minister the then chief minister and the present opposition leader Mr.Oomen chandy steadfastly defended him despite the fact that the accused’s nanme appear in 6 times in charge sheet of ice cream case and was forced to resign after stiff agitation.
Lastly but recently the congress gave the posting of Rajya sabha seat,whcih was supposed to be given to K M MAni’s Party was given to Mr. PJ kurian who is under going trial in suriyanelli case ,Which has worsened the relationship between the congress and kerala congress mani
October 4, 2006 at 3:06 am
Definitely, the way things are reported, the actions and motives of Mr PJJ are questionable in this particular incident.
It would be pure nonsense to believe that this lady is playing a political drama when Mr PJJ himself chose to move to a seat behind this lady and acted like a ‘njan onnum arinjillae’ fella reading a newspaper after the incident.
And as Lekha has rightly pointed out, anybody.. man or woman for that matter, would be able to identify the nature of body contact whether it is accidental or intentional. And who knows if this was his ‘time tested pasttime’ where none of his earlier victims reacted this way prompted him to adventure on this woman, in which case the reaction was different !!
Im sure that IG Sandhya would have looked at all possibilities to come with a brave statement that this incident could have occured, upholding the victims claim to an extend. I really hope that a full fledged criminal investigation is carried out to bring out the real truth, rather than politically trying to manouvre the outcome by a sitting/retired judge.
Finally it is amazing that many people in this forum knows this PJJ Personally and pitching in to defend him !! Think about such a probability for a state of about 30 million !!
October 5, 2006 at 2:53 am
First of all Mr. Rosario let me teach you some math…The higher the population, the higher the probability of persons known to PJ hitting this site….Fundamental math…
I wonder whether u r (or related to) the caseless, jobless, useless advocate Mr. Stephen Rosario who unfortunately has only scrappings from political parties for legal cases. As I read in the papers, even Lakshmi Gopakumar didn’t let that loser be on her side!!!! He is also notorious for black mailing and there’s already a complaint filed to debar him.
If you are (even if you are not), welcome to this discussion.
Iam also getting a vibe that Lekha(with her criminal advocate’s mind as someone mentioned earlier) is none other than your female embodiment…Any way…it doesn’t matter.
——————————–
You said “…the way things are reported, the actions …”
Our state has reached a state of despair where any one can have anything published, you only need to “Treat” the press accordingly. So news reports are not the ‘be all and end all’ of truth and authentic information. Iam sure u r aware of this.
“It would be pure nonsense to believe …”
How does it become sense to believe that a man of PJ’s repute would dare such an act in a plane full of mallus. FYI, PJ never claimed that the incident on the aircraft was a political drama. He said that it might have been a misunderstanding. Political drama happened between Aug 3′rd and 19′th. It’s even happening now. When the case at the high court was about to be ruled out, the conspirers managed to get the lady to file a police case.
“..And who knows if this was his ‘time tested pasttime’ where..”
OK, who knows if your theory has any sense to it at all? Who knows if Lakshmi has a time tested past time of insulting people around her? Who knows any of the truth by the way??
“..Im sure that IG Sandhya …”
Iam sure that PJ is innocent just as you are sure about IG Sandhya. So much for her reputation she did not even care to give an unbiased report. I have heard that she has the ill repute of harrassing her junior officers for misdemeanor, read, looking at her!!!!!
If the govt. wants it can influence any sort of investigation. It’s actually easier to influence the police who dance to all political tunes. So whether it is Judicial enquiry or Police case, its about the same. It is understandable why people like you are crying for police case. In a judicial enquiry, things will be decided within a couple of months and if PJ is cleared he will be back in power. Whereas a police case can drag on for years endlessly. So the only motive of PJ’s political opponents is to keep him out of power. PJ’s motive is to clear his name ASAP and come back to power. That’s natural reaction from both the parties.
Now that the case has been filed in Chennai Iam eagerly awaiting the outcome.
October 6, 2006 at 10:05 am
Alright Diya, what if I say that you’re one of the shameless messengers out there, recruited and surviving on the dirty kickbacks of Mythri, spreading the ‘divine’ acts of a corrupted soul. I guess you should be fine…. Take it easy..
It may be rightly observed that “common sense is not so common” considering even a fundu mathematician like you failed to understand that the factors laid out by Lekha were just pure common sense and nothing else.
And when you talk about probability, I would put my money on the fact that 75% or more (a very conservative guess) of the whole population would not know this guy personally and would expect to see a proportionate representation of this group in this forum, unless they chose to stay away from this bulls**t. And of course, I was one who couldn’t stand this bulls**t.
By the way, please don’t bother teaching me any of your fundu maths or clever politics. I did it the hard way long back and is still good to fetch my own bread.
For your kind information: I’ve heard of this Stephen guy, but thatz about it.
Hmm.. assuming a reasonable amount of truth in what media reports from multiple sources, I guess it is not rocket science to narrow down to their own conclusions, which might not please you.. though I respect your theory and may not agree to.
His first reaction to associate the victims of this incident to those fighting against the Mythri scam would in itself give a good indication on who tried to overturn this case in one’s favour. As I understand, no phone calls or political links are unearthed yet to support this theory. It would have been much easier to believe if somebody had harassed him at his originally allotted seat, rather than this guy changing his seat to the one behind this lady and later admitting that he might have ‘accidently’ made contact.
Regarding IG Sandhya’s report, I would say that this would be the best unbiased report you would get from police against a politician of a ruling party, given the fact it happened in INDIA.
And finally, no minister is above the law or above the people who elected him. So they should be subject to criminal charges and trial as any common man would when accused of such shameful acts.
October 7, 2006 at 1:35 am
I stumbled upon this page today and had a nice time reading all the posts. Chacko, that made hilarious reading
You sure can write and write well. My sincere advice to all those who are busy arguing and fighting with each other (I mean the ones like Diya, Rozario, Lekha, Ajax etc etc), instead of wasting your time here why don’t you do something useful and creative. What difference are your arguments going to make to PJ or the lady or anybody for that matter?
October 7, 2006 at 2:38 pm
@Rozario
True , we both have our own theories and i surely dont agree to yours.FYI, phone calls have been traced to an MLA’s office, MM Hassan’s phone, so i think u are not well informed or you chose to ignore that conveniently. Out of the blue MM Hassan comes with a ridiculous justification in the press that he has met the woman in an Onam celebration in Chennai and they became instant buddies!!??
Filing a case two months after the incident itself is enough proof to show something’s fishy!
What amazes me is that the whole issue was brought public by Sania Uzman, who is a nobody in kerala politics. If i had been harrassed, i would have filed a case straight away and not waited for politicians to interfere in my problem.
Another puzzle is that the husband repeatedly said on TV that the whole matter could have been solved then and there by a simple “sorry”. Do you really think grabbing a woman’s breast intentionally ,is a problem that can be solved by a simple SORRY!!!???? That too in Kerala???? How ridiculous is that??? That too coming from her own husband… So undoubtedly that is not what happened. There’s suerly been a political game afterwards. That too a really dirty one.
The lady also stated repeatedly that she doesn’t want to go for a case portraying herself to be the epitome of womanly decency. What happened now? Not only did she file the case in Chennai (That too two months after the incident occured!!) she also joined arms with the politicians like Simi Rosbell in the case in highcourt. So much for her aristocratic behaviour!!!
So it is hard for me to unbelieve that there has been no political involvement in this issue…
By the way I still feel that your math is really really weak
Mr Sureshkumar, I really appreciate your concerns but no Thank You.
December 8, 2006 at 10:49 pm
he will come back..with more power and fame….
May 11, 2009 at 4:59 pm
He is BACK! Innocent!
May 12, 2009 at 10:47 am
Saw this thread today only while searching the PJ incident details after seeing today’s news. Nice thread doing post mortem of a b$$t grabbing conspiracy. I hope PJ got freed for the right reason and not because of sloppy investigations. Otherwise what a waste of time and effort and it was not worth of loosing peace of mind for atleast two families..
July 6, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Now what lekha got to say ?
Will you say that PJ influenced TN Police ?
I do firmly believe that truth will win at the end.And thats happened.
Now who is the loser ??
Not PJ .. not that lady..
The common people of Thodupuzha/Idukki district lost a minister who would have changed the face of Idukki district like he did in his las term.
Credit to cheap dirty politricks….