Two Israeli soldiers get kidnapped from Northern Israel, Israel holds Lebanon responsible. Lebanon claims it has no control over the southern parts of the country and Hezbollah. Israel attacks the whole of Lebanon and takes out Hezbollah leadership and infrastructure.200 innocents get killed in Mumbai. Our Prime Minister after four days says that this was an act done by groups ‘across the border’. Says Mumbai is strong and we are united. Does nothing. Are we going to do anything? Every day our soldiers and civilians are blown up in Jammu and Kashmir. We still so nothing.
Pakistan occupied Kashmir continues to harbour terrorists training camps. Terrorists cross into the country from there. We have the evidence to prove it apart from the increasing toll of dead and injured civilians. Can’t we do anything against these terrorists?
Pakistan claims that it has no control over these groups and the very same groups are out to kill their President. What are we waiting for? Let’s do them a favour and do what Israel is doing and weed them out!
Are we really the softest F***king state on the planet?
July 15, 2006 at 7:25 pm
Do you think ordering fighter planes to attack a soverign nation is that simple? Especially, a nation like pakistan who has friends like china and the usa. In the case of Israel, whose military poweress comes from US and UK has, Lebanon and Palestine, which are both weaker factions.
The canvass of these operations are larger than just terrorist camps. The reason these operations become successful, is because our intelligence is not coordinated, it is poor and it is not well trained.
There is no point in releasing names of suspects after a bombing. Such men and women need to be identified before they commit such crimes.
Bombay isnt the only example. We often forget the past when new damages like these occur. We have not been able to bring to justice Dawood Ibrahim, Tiger Memon…. THe conspirators of Flight IC 814 highjack. What examples have we as a nation set in bringing such people to trial.
I hope you recall Operation Poomalai ( Garland) that involved, IAF dropping food supplies over Jaffna back in 1988. There was condemnation from nations around the world for breach of violating srilankan airspace and its soverignty.
We have strong evidence to prove, terrorist cells operate in POK, and maybe in the state of pakistan. Pakistan, on the other hand may choose to claim that RAW agents operate out of delhi!??
This is what i believe in, The nation of pakistan, was created out of hatred back in 1947. How could a nation that was created on those foundations ever come to terms with peace? Terrorism is more an ideology, how can you bomb a ideology!
July 16, 2006 at 8:58 am
In principle this is what a self respecting nation should and would do. In the absence of any retaliatory strikes, the terrorists will calibrate their violence only based on their own “goodwill” or lack of resources. Yeah, yeah, nations will make a hue and cry over attacks, but that cannot be a stumbling block. Our country must come first. We cannot shapeTour foreign policy by what others think. This is a battle which must be fought and won. There is no running away.
Having said that, it is easier said than done due to many reasons.
* Military, our forces do not have an overwhelming superiority over the enemy. By overwhelming, I mean 10x or 20x. We must focus on this with utmost urgency. We must recognize that ulitmately we must be able to project a powerful offense. Our entire military strategy must be focused on this type of scenario. Who knows what other attacks are being planned in the future ? Can we be complacent ?
* Politically, I cannot stress the importance of this. Our politicians are rotten as of today. There is lack of even basic consensus on terrorism other than blaming Pakistan for everything. Look at Kerala, look at Mulayam, look at communists and congress. Many are openly supporting prime suspect organizations. Unless the home politics is fixed, we cannot even think of a cross border engagement.
What cross border action do you want when the Kerala assembly calls for a special meeting to pass a resolution for the release of the prime accused in a terrorist attack ? Dont you think the same politicians will whip up passions if such an attack happens and try to convert it to votes ?
Depressing indeed.
July 16, 2006 at 9:56 am
Chacko,
I fail to understand why people have to look upto Israel on ways to counter terrorism. Tell me, which nation as a whole, lives in peace and harmony – Israel or India? Just because of acts like these, Israeli citizens will have to live in fear of retribution for hundreds of years. As Ashwin said, you cannot bomb an ideology. Why should an innocent girl suffer a fate like this http://www.gulf-news.com/images/06/07/16/16_re_lebanon_harfa_4.jpg
just because some terrorists who has a base in the country which she lives in has attacked Israel without provocation?
Attacking a country is a foolish and uncivilised act – whoever does it – through terrorism or war. Just becase India’s bureaucracy does not facilitate an efficient strategy to combat terrorism, it does not mean that attacking a nation is the only solution.
July 16, 2006 at 5:07 pm
We need not bomb Karachi or Attack Pakistan in open, but we need to follow the policy of Hot Pursuit.
Kill Terrorist and attackers where ever they are. Even if it means by stealth paratroopers/commando action raiding the POK and returning back after destroying the camps of Terror.
We still show POK under our Map, if we cannot take it back, atleast we should not allow that area to be used for Anti Indian activities.
Do remember that it’s not we who started the fight, whether it was 1947 attack on Kashmir, 1962, 1972 War and Kargil war.
Also we should not behave timidly when Pakistan is waging a proxy war, we only keep the diplomatic options open, Instead taking the battle on their ground.
I am sure that majority Indians and even general feeling in Indian Army will believe that being offensive and protect ourselves against a Terrorist nation like Pakistan is no foolishness and uncivilized act.
As by their repeated acts they are trying to weaken India economically and mentally.
We should not always pardon tyrant like Muhammad Ghori. Because the next time when they come they don’t reciprocate our generosity and our friendship, but try to attack us with more power and might.
Also Woke, US did what was best in attacking Afghanistan (Though do not support it’s attack in Iraq). There has been no terrorist attack on US Soil since 9/11 and they are still hunting them down to be sure that no such attack takes place in future.
And what we have done since millitany erupted in India which started with full support of Pakistan and is still going on.
Count how many attacks have taken place in one year itself- Varanasi Blast, Delhi blast, Bangalore Terrorist attack, almost daily reports of security personnel/civilians /tourist being killed in Kashmir and now Mumbai blast.
So we still keep only diplomatic options available. And I am not sure how we can ask ISI and Islamic terrorist to drop their ideology and follow a path of friendship.
Showing a innocent girl in Lebanon, but what about this Boy our very own Indian citizen who lies in pain , lot of them like him, who lost their near dear ones, some of them now can’t eat on their own, some of them now can’t walk, some of them cannot see now..
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1758354,curpg-6.cms
July 16, 2006 at 7:06 pm
Kill Terrorist and attackers where ever they are. They should be doing that already instead of saying hi hello to a terrorist.
A nation has millions of citizens, each of them having their own identity. Personally I do not favour generalising a nation as a whole.
Paresh, ultimately it is a matter of me and you disagreeing on whether violence can be used against a nation when say 75% percent(just a random no) of the people are implicitly or explicitly involved in terrorist activities, the other 25% deserves to suffer the consequences. You might argue that, for a bigger cause killing a few innocents is unavoidable. For me, ideologically, it is still wrong when we might have better alternatives.
On the other hand US (and Israel) has enough to back up their actions with political and economic clout. India clearly doesnt. If Israel attacks Lebanon, there are noises here and there but nobody complains as long as US is there for them. If India attacks Pakistan, hell will break loose. And even assuming India is successful in elminating most of the terrorists by killing them, do you think we can wipe out terrorism? And what do you think the scale of damage for us is? Even if it is say a city India being wiped out as a whole, dont you think we are responsible for their lives?
India has much more to lose than Pakistan does.
I think we have much more homework to do before thinking of attacking a nation like Pakistan. Improve the intelligence network, the emergency squads, more co-operation with other nations to combat terrorism etc. The boy who lost his life in Mumbai; will he get his life back if we kill some Pakistani boy in return? We should take steps in protecting such lives in future without intentionally harming innocent lives. Revenge looks good in movies. In real life it just doesn’t make much sense, especially for a nation with so much in stake.
July 16, 2006 at 8:44 pm
I believe all of us want something. We want this terroist activities and terrorism to end. Now, I strongly believe, going to war with pakistan is not the ultimate solution. Terrorist cells active in india operate from Nepal, POK, Bangladesh and also northern srilanka (LTTE). We cannot simply go around bombing nations, we have to come with a more effective way to tackle terrorism on our soil.
We have to first identify what is the root cause of this problem.
Why are we being attacked?
What are our prime targets? where are we most vulnerable?
What do we lack in terms of gathering intelligence? Dont we have good agents, agencies or we dont have a plan to counter terrorism?
Issues like these need to be addressed and identified and sorted out.
An indication of the recent blasts was in retaliation to the gujrat riots, said one report. The attack on the parliment, akshardham were all based on similar events.
So, then, it may lead us to indicate that the general population of india is partially responsible for such events. We have ethinic discrepencies which have to be sorted out. So the common man has a role to play.
We also have to identify, what we mean, when we say, pakistan supports terrorist activities in india? What do we want them to bring under control? Are we guilty of sending RAW agents and doing similar things that they do in our nation?
We also have to realize that, a problem like terrorism can be best solved if it is internationalized. today, the worst way to cripple a nation is by curtailing its economy by imposing sanctions. We need to bring to limelight issues where we can present facts and prove that our neighbours are primary conspirators in such acts.
India is unique as some pointed out earlier. We are composed of many dispora of ethinicities. We have to understand and examine the possibilites we have to solve this crime.
July 16, 2006 at 8:53 pm
Couldn’t have put it in a better way. I agree absolutely, Ashwin.
July 18, 2006 at 1:46 am
Only weak countries would need to flex their muscles to impress the weaker neighbor. India is wiser and I love her for it.
July 18, 2006 at 1:53 am
we certainly cannot practically bomb *our dear neighbours* but a show of intent and some affirmative action is needed.
July 18, 2006 at 1:54 am
Why do you want to take an example from Israel? Why do you think we have the Al-Qaeda, the Hezbollah, the Taliban and the likes in this world today? Mostly because we have tried to answer terror with terror. That is certainly not the way to go. Today Israel might crush Lebanon and Palestine, but you’ll also have a new generation of violent revenge seekers! No, violence is not the answer!
There are other ways to do this … that’s why we call ourselves humans.
July 18, 2006 at 2:16 am
http://orthoview.blogspot.com/2006/07/double-standards-of-highest-level.html
July 18, 2006 at 8:18 am
Is Israel taking out Hezbollah? Are you really sure about it? Those air strikes claim more innocent lives than the men from Hezbollah? Why is it so hard for people to believe that the kidnappings of some Israelis could have been resolved by mutual talks? Why is Israel so interested in showing off its air strike power? The questions may sound simple but the answers within carry a deeper meaning!!
July 18, 2006 at 10:15 am
The consequence of India attacking Pakistan would be far more costly to India than the relative cost of Israel attacking Lebanon. Lebanon has very little in the way of an effective army, Israel totally outmatches them. A war between India and Pakistan would cost many more lives by proportion, it would possibly leave you wishing that the whole thing had never started.
July 18, 2006 at 10:42 am
Smart discussion. India doesn’t attack Pakistan because it knows that it will get to taste some radiation fallout.
Secondly there is no point in blaming others for your own faults. Pakistanis can blame you for spreading terrorism in Balodchistan or helping fire sectarian violence in karachi.
Give Kashmiris there right of free decision on their fate and much of your troubles will go away.
As far as bombay bombings are concerned Pakistanis are not foolish to be doing such a thing when all the world is on their ass for eliminating ‘islamic terrosits’.
look for the culprits within you before you point finbgers at others conviniently
July 18, 2006 at 8:27 pm
@moiz – why doesnt India attack Pakistan? wel simply put its just not feasible and practical in todays day n age unless ofcourse one is Israel, who can getaway with murder. lets not get into the nuclear argument.
lets for a start believe that the Pakistani state does not sponsor terrorism against India. then why do there still exist the infrastructure that fuels terror?? why is it that any attack in India is traced to some terror organization operating out of Pakistan??
right for free decision to kashmiris??? well try holding a free and fair election in PoK for a start and then we can talk.
‘no point in blaming others for your own faults’ – so now the bombay bombings are Indias faults??? am i missing something here???
its easy to say ‘look for culprits within’. how about starting with yourselves.
July 18, 2006 at 9:42 pm
the number one reason you cannot attack pakistan is that pakistan isnt lebonan, it is hundreds of times more powerful than lebonan and india is much weaker than israel
( i am not debating the reasons you have given to attack pakistan here )
July 19, 2006 at 7:23 am
[...] [ Read more… ] [...]
July 19, 2006 at 11:39 am
do you think you really want a israel palestine on our borders? its easy for you to talk. But the stake holders are the people on the borders. I still believe pen is mightier than the sword … A war helps noone!
July 19, 2006 at 1:10 pm
Attacking a sovereign nation without serious causes is not my policy. I don’t want to see India doing same what Israel is.
As stated above, we are a peaceful nation, and have to stay that way. Besides, Pakistan is not just another country but rather a brotherhood … my personal view.
But yes, one thing I am sure of is that our country needs to be strongly active with their foreign policy, as of today I don’t see any, especially India now being a key player in almost all world affairs.
July 19, 2006 at 7:12 pm
Today there was a statement in the newspaper stating that Indo-pak talks will not be disrupted. They are more worried about talks then dending the citizens. I remember even in Rajiv Gandhi’s time about evidence being shown of pak involvement to the US ambassador or a visiting US dignitary. The problem is that Pakistan has freinds in high places and the US is famous for acting only according to its own interest. Other human lives do not matter.
July 25, 2006 at 2:44 pm
Compulsory sterilization of muslims males in India after 1 kid required —This will stop any future internal problems and revolutions
July 25, 2006 at 3:39 pm
Vijay, it’s people like you who should be sterilized.
July 25, 2006 at 5:32 pm
Haha….maybe he doesnt need to be sterilized afterall.
July 27, 2006 at 10:13 am
I have a perfect example of why Israel is doing what it is doing. On some given day,When you see a group of anti war protesters, go upto one and ask him why war is not good. He may reply telling you that violence leads to bloodshed and lives are lost and many more crap. Just after he finishes speaking, punch him hard on the nose. He may come to retaliate. Immediately stop him by telling reminding his anti war policies and how he shouldn’t retaliate. After he agrees, punch him once again on the nose. This time he may definitely come to hit back. Try to stop him again by reminding his anti war policies. When he becomes pacified, repeat the above procedure(of hitting on the nose) till he realises that sometimes it becomes necessary to punch back. This message goes out for all anti war people, especially to, wokeupjustnow, vincent, radioactiveray, E@zyVG. You guys would be the first to punch back if someone tried to harm you or your family.
July 27, 2006 at 2:40 pm
Indranil,
War is a competition between two opposing forces to determine who will survive. The futility of war begins there. Eliminating terrorists and the likes is one thing. War is entirely another.
And when someone punches you in the nose, you dont hit out at the whole group of people just because they happened to be in the proximity of your assailant.
Why should you even think of war if justice can be delivered otherwise? If you get arrested for punching me in the nose, I could get more satisfaction than giving you one back
July 28, 2006 at 2:14 am
indrani is right and realistic.And What Woke says suits to the foolish mob who believes in the lip service, be it of priest or politians.India is waiting for the terrorists to gain enough power to strike as hard as possible, the sleeping grnadma, never learned a lesson form her past so is her ideologists grand children who thinks “what the world will think about us if we do ” and irresponsibly utter words of wisdom to those who blindly believes and knows only one fact ” kill the khafir” n get a passport to heaven! hey u guys its as appealing to them as a green card to you! they have no doubts aboout it..if u say anything agaist it ..they will treat you with bullets! and u keep saying the bullshit! may the god give u the reward for ur cowardice!
July 28, 2006 at 4:11 pm
Those who attack us aim to divide us. Zendilse, your rant gives the impression that they are getting there.
We are Indians first. Let’s not be divided.
July 29, 2006 at 2:39 pm
zendilse,
Just a note that the views expressed above are my personal views and not of mutiny.in as a whole just in case you misunderstood.
Secondly, I am not completely against the use of force if it is target specific and not submit to generalisation. And I have not suggested a negotiation(words of wisdom) with active terrorists – which is what you seem to be indicating.
August 4, 2006 at 8:54 pm
u bloody indians….. u cant even think of attacking pakistan with the reason that u are the most coward people around…& believe me u cant even measure the strenght of muslim jihadis they are so strong that they can blow apart this filthy state in a spur of a moment but the reality behinds the scenes is that those 200 million muslim people are shielding you and creating a hurdle to demolish u from this world.
u cant asess their power their network in ur own country is so invincible that wherever and whenever they want can blast ur cities.And to tell the truth they are around u and watching ur every movement and over the years they have strenghten their roots & made themselves so formidable that u can never ever annihilate them, that day is not far now when the india will be wiped out of this world and muslims as before will be the rulers of this part of the world
August 5, 2006 at 10:36 am
@Ali Raza Lone
Demolish us from the world?
Keep trying moron..
August 8, 2006 at 1:21 pm
Only way to counter terrorist is by bringing in prosperity.The terrorists are really panicing with the growth our country is heading with.
When Pakistan also grow economically,terrorists
will have no new recruits.
I will let a suggestio to terrorists,instead of killing comman people,why don’t you do some good things for your own nation,so that some of your children could learn or lead a better life.
August 8, 2006 at 3:18 pm
A stable Pakistan is in India’s best interest. There are people within the system in Pakistan who see this as negative. For them, hurting or destroying India and Indians seems to be an indication of the strenght of Pakistan.
Once they rise above this, we might have peace.
August 9, 2006 at 2:33 am
SHUT YOUR BLOODY MOUTH, DONT CALL THEM TERRORISTS THEY ARE FREEDOM FIGHTERS & ARE COMBATING AGAINST TERRORISM FOR THE LAST SIXTY YEARS AND WILL KEEP ON DOING THIS UNTIL AND UNLESS THEY WOULDNT THROW U FILTHY PEOPLE OUT FROM THEIR BELOVED HOMELAND.
I ALSO WANT TO REMOVE ONE MIS-CONCEPTION U PEOPLE HAVE,U FEEL THAT THIS PALTRY ECONOMIC PROGRESS IS GONNA SHIELD U, DONT BE BLIND CANT U SEE WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN MUMBAI AND WHATS CONSTANTLY HAPPENING IN KASHMIR. DESPITE OF UR PROCUREMENT OF ULTRA-MODREN AMMUNITIONS UR TIMID ARMY CANT EVEN HOLD BACK THESE PALMFUL MUJAHIDS.
DISMISS THIS NOTION OUT OF UR MIND THAT WAR IS FOUGHT WITH WEAPONS.IN THE BATTLE FIELD WHAT COUNTS ARE THE EMOTIONS,PASSION AND ABOVE ALL COURAGE AND THAT WHAT WE ALL KNOW IS ABSENT FROM U BLOODY HINDUS.
LISTEN, U SHOULD SIT FOR SOMETIME AND THINK SERIOUSLY OVER IT THAT WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE WHO ARE NOT EVEN AFRAID OF SACRIFICING THEIR LIVIES.AWAY FROM THEIR FAMILIES, CHILDERNS AND ALL THE LUXGRIES OF WORLD THEY WITH THEIR LIVIES IN THEIR HANDS ARE RELENTLESSLY TRYING TO HARM THE ENEMY.
I KNOW ALL THESE THINGS ARE ABOVE U.
August 17, 2006 at 4:35 pm
Your capslock is on, Ali.
And try consulting a therapist. Im sure you will feel better.
August 18, 2006 at 8:27 pm
gosh,ali raza,u seriously need some help man.its quite clear that u are a paki.plz do not commit the blunder of mistaking our patience for cowardice.we dont think killing innocent people is an act of bravery.and if u think it is, then seriously raza, u ABSOLUTELY need to see a therapist[woke,i cant agree with u more ont his one].we are a peace loving nation and we believe that hatred can be conquered by love.we dont condone taking of innocent lives.we dont want blood on our hands but the day we rise,u pakis will have to beware.plz dont forget the 2 wars and mostr ecently kargil.we dont believe in attacking from behind.face us man to man and lets see who wipes out whom.
August 18, 2006 at 8:33 pm
ashwin,the reason why dawood ibrahim and tiger memon havent been brought to justice is coz the indian politicians arent serious about extraditing them to india and the reason is obvious,they are hands in gloves with them.a lot of our indina politicians are obligated to them.if they are brought back to india,their secret will be out and they dont want that happening.so we do have to do a bit of soul searching before we accuse others.if only we had honest leaders!!!!!!!
April 2, 2007 at 7:47 pm
india has suffered enough from terrorism..its time the indian government formulates a detailed and practical plan to combat terrorism and if necessary attacking pakistan with all its might..some lives will be lost on our side but i suppose lets finish the proxy war that pakistan is waging against us for once and for all and atleast the future generations of india will not live in the shadow of terrorism
June 12, 2007 at 5:49 pm
Greetings “humans”!
After watching and observing your planet from a distance we have come to the conclution that you creatures are are not worthy to live on this beautiful planet. Alas, first we thought about building large scale spaceships to lift you off this planet. But then we started to do some deep information gathering on this thing you creatures calls Internet. We have come to the concution that spaceships are a waist of energy and time. The time is not far when you will destroy each other. Only then will we come back and take what used to be yours.
In the main time: HAPPY FIGHTING!
Regards, Capt. Marsulus Jupiter
January 29, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Yes, you all indian guys are correct , we had f***** ourselves, Pakistan is torn state and to my best knowledge nothing is done till Ali Raza Lone reside in the state.Piss them from the country and we will happy after…